How to choose between creation and evolution.

[AV1611VET]

Explain if omnipotent beings can create a stone they cannot lift because the logical conclusion is that no being can be omnipotent.

I can make that paradox even harder.

God can create a stone so heavy He can't lift it, yet my four-year old neighbor can.

It's simple.

Rather than create the stone heavy, all He has to do is lay aside His omnipotence.

Jesus laid aside His omniscience when He came to Earth.

Philippians 2:7a But made himself of no reputation,

 

[AV1611VET]

The difficulty is in taking a word--like "potent" which describes material entities of our experience--and sticking "omni" in front of it and expecting it to mean anything at all.

Difficult for academia, maybe.

We koine are exempt from sciency explanations.

Mark 12:37b And the common people heard him gladly.

 

[Speedwell]

Difficult for academia, maybe.

We koine are exempt from sciency explanations.

Mark 12:37b And the common people heard him gladly.

Or any credible explanation at all, "sciency" or not.

 

[AV1611VET]

Or any credible explanation at all, "sciency" or not.

Credibility is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[VirOptimus]

Credibility is in the eye of the beholder.

Some explanations explains the data, and some rely on magic.

Magic is never credible.

 

[AV1611VET]

Magic is never credible.

Incredibility sells:

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Why did God even make the laws in the first place? Why not just have a sort of continuous running miracle all the time? That way he wouldn't have to change and restore them everytime he wanted to do the 'smote' thing!?

Exactly - an omnipotent entity wouldn't need 'fine tuning', everything would just work; come to that, most of the universe and its elaborate history is redundant if humans are the focus of its attention.

Some evade this by denying the evidence, but for most, GWIMW (God Works In Mysterious Ways) is the catch-all 'explanation'.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Some explanations explains the data, and some rely on magic.

Magic is never credible.

"'Real magic' refers to the magic that is not real; while the magic that is real, that can actually be done, is not real magic". Attribution unclear.

 

[AV1611VET]

"'Real magic' refers to the magic that is not real; while the magic that is real, that can actually be done, is not real magic". Attribution unclear.

Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: Exodus 8:19a

 

[Speedwell]

Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: Exodus 8:19a

Turning a stick into a snake is a good trick; I've seen it done and it can be very convincing.

 

[AV1611VET]

Turning a stick into a snake is a good trick; I've seen it done and it can be very convincing.

Try this trick without the LORD telling you:

Exodus 8:16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Say unto Aaron, Stretch out thy rod, and smite the dust of the land, that it may become lice throughout all the land of Egypt.
17 And they did so; for Aaron stretched out his hand with his rod, and smote the dust of the earth, and it became lice in man, and in beast; all the dust of the land became lice throughout all the land of Egypt.
18 And the magicians did so with their enchantments to bring forth lice, but they could not: so there were lice upon man, and upon beast.
19 Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

And in my opinion, Pharaoh's magicians weren't just your average Chriss Angels of today, using smoke and mirrors.

Egypt was being ruled by fallen angels who could make today's best scientists look like ... well ... nevermind.

Today's scientists do that on their own.

But Pharaoh's magicians weren't like your average run-of-the-mill magicians.

They were the REAL McCOYS of magicland.

Yet ... compared to God's miracles ... they were just paper hangers.

 

[VirOptimus]

Incredibility sells:

I see, you have nothing as usual.

 

[AV1611VET]

I see, you have nothing as usual.

That means you don't either.

 

[VirOptimus]

That means you don't either.

Oh, I do, I have the facts.

 

[AV1611VET]

Oh, I do, I have the facts.

Good point.

You do have nothing.

 

[VirOptimus]

Good point.

You do have nothing.

I know, reality is embarassing for your beliefs.

 

[sjastro]

The difficulty is in taking a word--like "potent" which describes material entities of our experience--and sticking "omni" in front of it and expecting it to mean anything at all.

I think omnipotence operates on a much more fundamental level such as the dealing with the question of free will.
If God is omnipotent then the actions of Judas would have been known even before Judas was born.
As a result any individual created by God cannot exercise free will.

 

[sjastro]

I can make that paradox even harder.

God can create a stone so heavy He can't lift it, yet my four-year old neighbor can.

It's simple.

Rather than create the stone heavy, all He has to do is lay aside His omnipotence.

Jesus laid aside His omniscience when He came to Earth.

Philippians 2:7a But made himself of no reputation,

Rather than addressing the paradox this is a cop out.
If God somehow decided not to be omnipotent then he/she would not be able to create the stone in the first place.

 

[SelfSim]

Exactly - an omnipotent entity wouldn't need 'fine tuning', everything would just work; come to that, most of the universe and its elaborate history is redundant if humans are the focus of its attention.

Or, as humans explore their own perceptions, they distinguish features they call 'the universe' and then set about observing the repeating patterns and then describe them using a consistent language .. which then become the laws of nature ... They then imagine omnipotent gods for the purpose of subjugating the minds of the masses ...

 

[SelfSim]

... As a result any individual created by God cannot exercise free will.

That's right .. were apparently torn between the omnipotent god's will .. and the will of his own creation: Satan's.
Humans are just some kind of dumping ground for these dudes ..