How to be saved and question

[Wansvic]

@Wansvic



Thats false, sins are forgiven by the shedding of the blood of Christ, His Obedience not mans. Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

God forgave sins for Christs sake, not mans being water baptized Eph 4:32

And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Without the shed blood of Jesus forgiveness of one's personal sin would not be possible. Consider that Jesus' sacrifice made this possible for all mankind. However, not all will take hold of what Jesus died to provide. Obedience to the counsel of God brings about remission of sin. Evidence of this is found in Luke 3:3, Mark 1:1-5, Acts 2:38, 22:16. All detailed conversion accounts reveal belief and submission of water baptism is an essential element of the NT rebirth; none is excluded. (Acts 2:4-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)

Col 2:12-13
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

 

[Brightfame52]

@Wansvic

Without the shed blood of Jesus forgiveness of one's personal sin would not be possible

False, His shed blood provides , gives forgiveness of sins for whom He died Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

 

[Wansvic]

@Wansvic



False, His shed blood provides , gives forgiveness of sins for whom He died Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Consider: "To him (Jesus) give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." (Acts 10:43) After Peter made the forgoing statement, the reality of which he spoke took place: "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded the believers to be baptized in the name of the Lord." (Acts 10:47-48)

 

[Brightfame52]

Consider: "To him (Jesus) give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." (Acts 10:43) After Peter made the forgoing statement, the reality of which he spoke took place: "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded the believers to be baptized in the name of the Lord." (Acts 10:47-48)

Baptism was a command of obedience after one had given evidence of already being saved. Cornelius was a saved forgiven, just man before he ever met Peter.

 

[Guojing]

Consider: "To him (Jesus) give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." (Acts 10:43) After Peter made the forgoing statement, the reality of which he spoke took place: "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded the believers to be baptized in the name of the Lord." (Acts 10:47-48)

There is a difference between believing

Christ died because you crucified him, but he resurrected, therefore he is indeed the son of God/promised Messiah (Acts 2:36)

versus

Christ died for your sins and rose again for your justification (Romans 4:24-25)

The first one requires water baptism to complete the forgiveness of Israel (Acts 2:38), the 2nd one does not.

 

[David Lamb]

There is a difference between believing

Christ died because you crucified him, but he resurrected, therefore he is indeed the son of God/promised Messiah (Acts 2:36)

versus

Christ died for your sins and rose again for your justification (Romans 4:24-25)

The first one requires water baptism to complete the forgiveness of Israel (Acts 2:38), the 2nd one does not.

The first verse (Acts 2:36) says nothing about believing, or about baptism. That comes in verse 38:

“"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ." Now when they heard [this], they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?" Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” (Ac 2:36-38 NKJV)

Belief is not mentioned, but it's implied by "in the name of Jesus Christ"; why would they be baptized in the name of Someone in Whom they did not believe?

The Romans 4 verses don't mention baptism. As I've mentioned before, Romans is addressed to Christians, as Paul makes clear in his introduction:

“To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called [to be] saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” (Ro 1:7 NKJV)

However, throughout the New Testament we have examples of baptism following belief, for instance the Philippian jailer, and the Ethiopian eunuch.

 

[Guojing]

The first verse (Acts 2:36) says nothing about believing, or about baptism. That comes in verse 38:

“"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ." Now when they heard [this], they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?" Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” (Ac 2:36-38 NKJV)

Belief is not mentioned, but it's implied by "in the name of Jesus Christ"; why would they be baptized in the name of Someone in Whom they did not believe?

The Romans 4 verses don't mention baptism. As I've mentioned before, Romans is addressed to Christians, as Paul makes clear in his introduction:

“To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called [to be] saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” (Ro 1:7 NKJV)

However, throughout the New Testament we have examples of baptism following belief, for instance the Philippian jailer, and the Ethiopian eunuch.

You should be replying to this latest post of mine to you instead

How to be saved and question

That has nothing to do with the post you are replying to. Its a yes or no point. Either the 2 beliefs about Jesus are equivalent or they are not. - Look take a person who is of the catholic religion. They believe Jesus died on the cross and was resurrected, but if they have never believed in...

www.christianforums.com

 

[David Lamb]

You cannot preach Acts 2:36 to any unbeliever today.

Only the nation of Israel did the horrific act of crucifying their promised Messiah (Matthew 27:25, Acts 3:13-17).

You can only preach Romans 4:24-25 and 1 Cor 15:1-4 to them.

I have not suggested that we should preach Acts 2:36 to unbelievers today. We can preach that Christ died to save sinners.

 

[Brightfame52]

I have not suggested that we should preach Acts 2:36 to unbelievers today. We can preach that Christ died to save sinners.

Do you also preach that the sinners He died to save that He successfully saved them by His death ?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Acts 2:36-39 KJV
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

The "repent" in this case was to repent of their crucifixion and rejection of Jesus as Lord and Christ. Repent of this rejection and instead believe and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

 

[Guojing]

I have not suggested that we should preach Acts 2:36 to unbelievers today. We can preach that Christ died to save sinners.

So my point is that there is a difference between preaching the 2 deaths of Christ. If they are the same, then Acts 2:36 can be preached today as well.

 

[Guojing]

Acts 2:36-39 KJV
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

The "repent" in this case was to repent of their crucifixion and rejection of Jesus as Lord and Christ. Repent of this rejection and instead believe and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

So this repentance cannot be made by anyone today. No one today physically crucified Christ and reject Jesus as their promised Messiah.

 

[Brightfame52]

Acts 2:36-39 KJV
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

The "repent" in this case was to repent of their crucifixion and rejection of Jesus as Lord and Christ. Repent of this rejection and instead believe and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

Their sins were already forgiven and they were already quickened by the Spirit,or born again. Water baptism was their first act of Christian obedience.

 

[Wansvic]

There is a difference between believing

Christ died because you crucified him, but he resurrected, therefore he is indeed the son of God/promised Messiah (Acts 2:36)

versus

Christ died for your sins and rose again for your justification (Romans 4:24-25)

The first one requires water baptism to complete the forgiveness of Israel (Acts 2:38), the 2nd one does not.

The message presented at Pentecost was carried to the Samaritans, (half-Jew and half Gentile) and Gentiles. The examples reveal no one is excluded from the necessity to believe in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection, repent, be water baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sin, and receive the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:4-41, 8:12-18, 10:43-48) Keep in mind that everyone living today is a descendant of one of these groups.

Acts 19:1-7 is the clincher. The account provides undeniable evidence that obedience to the message, given at Pentecost some 20+ prior, must be obeyed by every individual until Jesus returns.

 

[Wansvic]

Baptism was a command of obedience after one had given evidence of already being saved. Cornelius was a saved forgiven, just man before he ever met Peter.

Scripture reveals otherwise; Cornelius was not saved nor forgiven before he met with Peter:

"And he (Cornelius) shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. Acts 11:13-14



"And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,
And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.
Send therefore to Joppa, and call hither Simon, whose surname is Peter; he is lodged in the house of one Simon a tanner by the sea side: who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee.
Immediately therefore I sent to thee; (Peter) and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God. Acts 10:30-33


Note the command Peter gave:
"...on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.
Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord." Acts 10:45-48

 

[Brightfame52]

@Wansvic

Scripture reveals otherwise; Cornelius was not saved nor forgiven before he met with Peter:

Yes he was saved, a justified man who worked righteousness and feared God, was already accepted of God Acts 10:2,22,34-35

2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Only a righteous forgiven man worketh righteousness before God.

Corenlius because he was saved,believed the gospel,then obeyed the ordinance of baptism

Water baptism is just Christian obedience,to identify with the other saints in fellowship

 

[Wansvic]

@Wansvic



Yes he was saved, a justified man who worked righteousness and feared God, was already accepted of God Acts 10:2,22,34-35

2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Only a righteous forgiven man worketh righteousness before God.

Corenlius because he was saved,believed the gospel,then obeyed the ordinance of baptism

Water baptism is just Christian obedience,to identify with the other saints in fellowship

If Cornelius was already saved why would the angel tell him to send for Peter who would tell him how to be saved? Again, I include Acts 11:13-14 below.

The account reveals devoted men/women who respect God are in jeopardy of being lost for eternity like anyone else. Jesus said except a man (woman) be born again he cannot see or enter the kingdom of God. (John 3:3-5) Peter told Cornelius and the others how to be born again/saved. They believed Peter and received the Holy Spirit and were baptized in water in the name of Jesus for remission of their sin. (Acts 10:43-48)

"And he (Cornelius) shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. Acts 11:13-14

 

[Wansvic]

Paul proclaims the gospel he preached and which resulted in people being saved:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

In short:

I declare unto you the gospel by which you are saved. Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again.

That is what you have to accept, acknowledge, and confess.

"Christ died for my sins, was buried, and rose again."

I am surprised that even people will try to add to or subtract from this. It is so clear and in complete context.
If you see how you were lost, you will see why it is so easy to be saved. You were lost at birth by no fault of your own. The sins you committed from day one were merely evidence of your lost condition. You did nothing to be lost. You do (relatively) nothing to be saved. I have even stated that belief is nothing more than awareness of a fact and acting in accordance with that fact. Even Paul states that one maintains salvation by merely "remembering" these three facts.

By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. It is just that hard. I am aware of at least one method of applying this salvation and I have used it while witnessing. IOWs, is there an easy way to apply this gospel?

1. God has made Jesus Lord and Christ of all. (Acts 2:26, 10:36)
2. As Lord of all, He is merciful to all who call on His name. (Rom 10:12)
3. Whoever calls on his name shall be saved. (Rom 10:13)

This is not a different gospel as described above in 1 Cor 15; this is just one way to apply this gospel.

That portion of Paul's letter to the Corinthians specifically addresses the topic of the resurrection. Many mistakenly conclude that the first two verses of 1 Corinthians chapter 15 confirm that an individual need only believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus in order to be saved. The gospel message certainly begins with that information; however, it does not end there.

Paul begins his letter by reminding the group that he declared to them the gospel by which they were saved. (Verses 1-2) He goes on to point out a specific part of the gospel message that he and they received FIRST; that Jesus died for their sins, was buried and resurrected. (Verses 3-4) He then delves into concepts associated with resurrection throughout the remainder of the chapter.

Apostle Paul’s comment about Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection being what is shared with people FIRST indicates there is other information included in the gospel message. This truth is seen in scripture relevant to all groups of humanity; Jews, Gentiles and Samaritans. (Acts 2:22-41; 8:12-17; 10:37-48) The every case the individuals hear the word of God, that includes the need to submit to water baptism in the name of Jesus for remission of sin, and be indwelt by the Holy Ghost.

In 1 Corinthians 15 verse 29 Paul specifically brings up water baptism. He questions why people are getting baptized for the dead if they don't believe the dead will be resurrected. Even though baptism for the dead is not biblical it speaks to the fact that born again believers realized their own water baptism played a part in their spiritual rebirth. And as such, one can conclude hey were doing it in hopes of changing the fate of relatives and/or friends who had not submitted to it for themselves before meeting their demise.

Clearly repentance and water baptism hold no significance without belief in Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection. Jesus’ sacrifice is what makes the NT spiritual rebirth possible at all. Even though Jesus died for the sins of all humanity, not all will have their sins washed away. (Acts 22:16...) Only those willing to trust in Jesus through belief and obedience become born again children of God.

 

[Guojing]

The message presented at Pentecost was carried to the Samaritans, (half-Jew and half Gentile) and Gentiles. The examples reveal no one is excluded from the necessity to believe in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection, repent, be water baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sin, and receive the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:4-41, 8:12-18, 10:43-48) Keep in mind that everyone living today is a descendant of one of these groups.

You cannot preach Acts 2:36 to any unbeliever today.

Only the nation of Israel did the horrific act of crucifying their promised Messiah (Matthew 27:25, Acts 3:13-17).

You can only preach Romans 4:24-25 and 1 Cor 15:1-4 to them.

 

[Brightfame52]

If Cornelius was already saved why would the angel tell him to send for Peter who would tell him how to be saved? Again, I include Acts 11:13-14 below.

The account reveals devoted men/women who respect God are in jeopardy of being lost for eternity like anyone else. Jesus said except a man (woman) be born again he cannot see or enter the kingdom of God. (John 3:3-5) Peter told Cornelius and the others how to be born again/saved. They believed Peter and received the Holy Spirit and were baptized in water in the name of Jesus for remission of their sin. (Acts 10:43-48)

"And he (Cornelius) shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. Acts 11:13-14

Cornelius was saved, Peter was sent to give him assurance and the good news of his salvation, as well as to introduce him to the christian life. Ive given you enough scripture evidence that he was saved, but im afraid you are mislead to believe a lie