How to be saved and question

[Guojing]

No, one can't, I would say, because it is only by His death that Jesus saves sinners from their sins. If He had then remained dead, He would have been conquered by death, rather than being its Conqueror, and therefore no use as a Saviour.

so my point is that John 20:31 is not the gospel that saves anyone today.

You can believe he is the Son of God and still be unsaved.

 

[d taylor]

If that is the case, then what John said there is to believe in the identity of Christ, as the promised Messiah.

But that is NOT what anyone needs to believe about Jesus today, in order to be saved.

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To receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation. Is received by believing in Jesus (the person) believing that He Jesus is who He says He is The Son of God/The Messiah, the resurrection and the life.


Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

 

[Guojing]

-To receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation. Is received by believing in Jesus (the person) believing that He Jesus is who He says He is The Son of God/The Messiah, the resurrection and the life.​

But, as you said, Peter believed he is the Son of God, but without believing he will resurrect correct?

So was he saved at Matthew 16?

 

[d taylor]

But, as you said, Peter believed he is the Son of God, but without believing he will resurrect correct?

So was he saved at Matthew 16?

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Maybe this article will help answer your question. Tough Questions About Saving Faith – Grace Evangelical Society

While the Gospel of John deals with people prior to the Cross and resurrection, it was written after those events for post-Cross and post-resurrection people. There is therefore no reason to suggest that the terms of salvation have changed. The Gospel of John is not a mere historical record of how people were saved prior to the Cross. It also tells how people are saved now, in the church age. To put it another way: the gospel Jesus preached is still the gospel!

 

[Guojing]

While the Gospel of John deals with people prior to the Cross and resurrection, it was written after those events for post-Cross and post-resurrection people. There is therefore no reason to suggest that the terms of salvation have changed. The Gospel of John is not a mere historical record of how people were saved prior to the Cross. It also tells how people are saved now, in the church age. To put it another way: the gospel Jesus preached is still the gospel!​

I am saying believing in Jesus is a vague statement.

You should be clear, believe what about Jesus?

 

[d taylor]

I am saying believing in Jesus is a vague statement.

You should be clear, believe what about Jesus?

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So The Gospel of John is not clear on what to believe about Jesus.

 

[Brightfame52]

It first must be understood that one is saved solely by the Person and Work of Jesus Christ on their behalf, apart from anything they did, or believed. It was totally by means of a legal transaction unbeknown to them, but must be revealed to them.

 

[d taylor]

I am saying believing in Jesus is a vague statement.

You should be clear, believe what about Jesus?

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Articles on believe in Jesus

What Did the Lord Jesus Mean When He Said, “He Who Believes in Me”? – Grace Evangelical Society

Believing That Jesus Is the Christ, the Son of God (John 20:31) – Grace Evangelical Society

Is the Object of Faith Jesus or His Promise? – Grace Evangelical Society

What Does It Mean to Believe in Jesus? – Grace Evangelical Society

 

[Guojing]

-So The Gospel of John is not clear on what to believe about Jesus.​

He was clear, believe in the identity of Jesus (John 20:31).

That was what Peter believed in Matthew 16, and that was enough to be saved under the gospel of the kingdom.

He did not attempt to insert anything about believing in his death burial and resurrection there in John 20:31, unlike what Paul would later state in1 Cor 15:1-4.

But you try to fit both beliefs about Jesus in by interpreting John 20:31 as "To receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation. Is received by believing in Jesus (the person) believing that He Jesus is who He says He is The Son of God/The Messiah, the resurrection and the life.

which is not what the author is saying there.

Remember the author wrote the entire book post cross, so if he intended for the change, from believing that Jesus's identity to Jesus's resurrection, he would have made a commentary about that change in John 20:30-31, which he did in various places such as John 2:22

 

[d taylor]

He was clear, believe in the identity of Jesus (John 20:31).

That was what Peter believed in Matthew 16, and that was enough to be saved under the gospel of the kingdom.

He did not attempt to insert anything about believing in his death burial and resurrection there in John 20:31, unlike what Paul would later state in1 Cor 15:1-4.

But you try to fit both beliefs about Jesus in by interpreting John 20:31 as "To receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation. Is received by believing in Jesus (the person) believing that He Jesus is who He says He is The Son of God/The Messiah, the resurrection and the life.

which is not what the author is saying there.

Remember the author wrote the entire book post cross, so if he intended for the change, from believing that Jesus's identity to Jesus's resurrection, he would have made a commentary about that change in John 20:30-31, which he did in various places such as John 2:22

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Paul (in 1st Corinthians 15) is not addressing what unbelievers need to believe to receive Eternal Life.

It is plainly stated in 1st Corinthians 15 what Paul is addressing
Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

Paul is addressing a group of believers who is saying there is no resurrection of the dead.

 

[Guojing]

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Paul (in 1st Corinthians 15) is not addressing what unbelievers need to believe to receive Eternal Life.

It is plainly stated in 1st Corinthians 15 what Paul is addressing
Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

Paul is addressing a group of believers who is saying there is no resurrection of the dead.

Even if you believe that to be true, my points on John 20:31 remains unaddressed.

John 20:31 is not about believing the death burial and resurrection of Jesus.

 

[David Lamb]

Even if you believe that to be true, my points on John 20:31 remains unaddressed.

John 20:31 is not about believing the death burial and resurrection of Jesus.

So what were "These things"? John said in that verse:

“but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.” (Joh 20:31 NKJV)

John had written about the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. To take an example of what I mean, if Jesus had not conquered death, in other words, if He had not risen, how could anybody have life in His name?

 

[d taylor]

Even if you believe that to be true, my points on John 20:31 remains unaddressed.

John 20:31 is not about believing the death burial and resurrection of Jesus.

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I never said it was.

 

[d taylor]

Even if you believe that to be true, my points on John 20:31 remains unaddressed.

John 20:31 is not about believing the death burial and resurrection of Jesus.

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You still miss the point. Believing in Jesus's death and resurrection, should point the person back to the person Jesus. Then they should say, hey Jesus defeated death and rose from the grave, so Jesus is who He says He is The Son of God/The Messiah. Then they should believe in Jesus for life

 

[Guojing]

So what were "These things"? John said in that verse:

“but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.” (Joh 20:31 NKJV)

John had written about the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. To take an example of what I mean, if Jesus had not conquered death, in other words, if He had not risen, how could anybody have life in His name?

As Matthew 16 established, Peter could believe Jesus is the Messiah, the Christ, without believing that he will die for his sins and rise again for his justification.

These 2 beliefs about Jesus are not equivalent.

 

[Guojing]

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I never said it was.

You said it was here How to be saved and question

 

[d taylor]

You said it was here How to be saved and question

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I never said in the link you posted that John 20:31 addresses Jesus's resurrection.

 

[Guojing]

-I never said in the link you posted that John 20:31 addresses Jesus's resurrection.​

So in the end, you do believe these 2 are not equivalent

-Believing that Jesus is the Christ, the son of God (John 20:31)
-Believing that Jesus died for your sins and rose again on the 3rd day (1 Cor 15:1-4)

Alright then, we are in agreement.

 

[d taylor]

So in the end, you do believe these 2 are not equivalent

-Believing that Jesus is the Christ, the son of God (John 20:31)
-Believing that Jesus died for your sins and rose again on the 3rd day (1 Cor 15:1-4)

Alright then, we are in agreement.

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I told you in an earlier post what Paul was addressing in 1st Corinthians 15, not sure why that is hard to understand.

 

[Guojing]

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I told you in an earlier post what Paul was addressing in 1st Corinthians 15, not sure why that is hard to understand.

That has nothing to do with the post you are replying to.

Its a yes or no point. Either the 2 beliefs about Jesus are equivalent or they are not.