HOW TO BE BLESSED?

[Anguspure]

Do you encourage them to question your lack of perfect compliance in love?

The ones I know well and I discuss these things often, forgive one another where that is necessary, and encourage one another to keep moving towards him. My biggest gripe is that we are few and far between, and definitely not typical of the Church communities we have interacted with.

When in your flesh, you cannot see perfect compliance happening in this earth, are you supply a false hope to others by exhorting them that they will one day reach perfect compliance?

In the flesh it is not possible but in Him l things are possible. But we should not focus on the high mountain summit, rather we keep our eyes on the path and Him leading us forward. He doesn't demand instant perfection, He desires progress towards Him.

 

[Si_monfaith]

The ones I know well and I discuss these things often, forgive one another where that is necessary, and encourage one another to keep moving towards him. My biggest gripe is that we are few and far between, and definitely not typical of the Church communities we have interacted with.

In the flesh it is not possible but in Him l things are possible. But we should not focus on the high mountain summit, rather we keep our eyes on the path and Him leading us forward. He doesn't demand instant perfection, He desires progress towards Him.

forgive one another where that is necessary, and encourage one another

The question is not forgiveness or encouraging one another to good deeds but encouraging them to question your incomplete compliance in love?

In the flesh it is not possible but in Him l things are possible

So in Him will you attain perfect compliance in love before you leave the earth?

 

[Anguspure]

The question is not forgiveness or encouraging one another to good deeds but encouraging them to question your incomplete compliance in love?

People who have the right to speak into my life like that (because they know me and Love me) will be free to question my actions, just as I am free to question theirs at that level. They do this because they Love me. Further to this it is very frustrating that people who claim to Love us often with hold their true opinions about our conduct, perhaps afraid of a frank and open discussion, or of offending, but in doing so cause alienation of the relationship.
But the key is indeed forgiveness and encouragement. A discussion entered knowing that these things, as well as Love, are on the table is one that allows true relationship and the development of Love.

So in Him will you attain perfect compliance in love before you leave the earth?

From the point of complete forgiveness in Him we are in perfect compliance. At each point in the day we have this opportunity open to us to continue in His perfection. Some opportunities are easy, so for a short time we continue. Some are more difficult and so we tend to miss the mark....and some are down right terrifying so at this point it is highly unlikely.
That I could continue in perfection for a longer period than I currently do would be fantastic.

 

[Anguspure]

The question is not forgiveness or encouraging one another to good deeds but encouraging them to question your incomplete compliance in love?



So in Him will you attain perfect compliance in love before you leave the earth?

Another good explanation from @Christsfreeservant
Cherry Picking

 

[Si_monfaith]

People who have the right to speak into my life like that (because they know me and Love me) will be free to question my actions, just as I am free to question theirs at that level. They do this because they Love me. Further to this it is very frustrating that people who claim to Love us often with hold their true opinions about our conduct, perhaps afraid of a frank and open discussion, or of offending, but in doing so cause alienation of the relationship.
But the key is indeed forgiveness and encouragement. A discussion entered knowing that these things, as well as Love, are on the table is one that allows true relationship and the development of Love.

From the point of complete forgiveness in Him we are in perfect compliance. At each point in the day we have this opportunity open to us to continue in His perfection. Some opportunities are easy, so for a short time we continue. Some are more difficult and so we tend to miss the mark....and some are down right terrifying so at this point it is highly unlikely.
That I could continue in perfection for a longer period than I currently do would be fantastic.

From the point of complete forgiveness in Him we are in perfect compliance

So now you agree one can be found perfectly compliant in love only through Christ's forgiveness given graciously (freely) through His blood?

Are you trying to now replicate that imparted perfect compliance in your works? Do you think it's possible?

 

[Si_monfaith]

Another good explanation from @Christsfreeservant
Cherry Picking

You can post the explanation here in text.

 

[Anguspure]

You can post the explanation here in text.

It is from another thread on the forum and very long. Better to post the link and perhaps allow @Christsfreeservant to speak for himself.

 

[Anguspure]

So now you agree one can be found perfectly compliant in love only through Christ's forgiveness given graciously (freely) through His blood?

I agree because the first step towards being perfect in Love is the righteousness of YHWH in Yeshua.

However my salvation only gives me the right to become a child of YHWH, and does not automatically infer that my actions will immediately reflect His Love. Rather there is a process of learning, a path to follow towards Him who is our water of life before we can reach the point where we can say that we are walking right next to Him.

Are you trying to now replicate that imparted perfect compliance in your works? Do you think it's possible?

No I am not trying to become righteous through works. The beginning of Love is the righteousness of Yeshua and if I remain in Him, with my eyes set on Him and with Him Lord of my life then I will learn to act as He has acted towards all of us in Love.

Not only do I believe it is impossible to attain righteousness by works, I think that it has the cart before the horse. As far as attaining righteousness, all of our good works are meaningless and count for nothing if we have not entered a right relationship with Him first.
If we have become right with Him then the things we do are in response to His Love because we stand in righteous relationship to Him and then we may become children of our Father YHWH.

 

[Si_monfaith]

I agree because the first step towards being perfect in Love is the righteousness of YHWH in Yeshua.

However my salvation only gives me the right to become a child of YHWH, and does not automatically infer that my actions will immediately reflect His Love. Rather there is a process of learning, a path to follow towards Him who is our water of life before we can reach the point where we can say that we are walking right next to Him.


No I am not trying to become righteous through works. The beginning of Love is the righteousness of Yeshua and if I remain in Him, with my eyes set on Him and with Him Lord of my life then I will learn to act as He has acted towards all of us in Love.

Not only do I believe it is impossible to attain righteousness by works, I think that it has the cart before the horse. As far as attaining righteousness, all of our good works are meaningless and count for nothing if we have not entered a right relationship with Him first.
If we have become right with Him then the things we do are in response to His Love because we stand in righteous relationship to Him and then we may become children of our Father YHWH.

If we have become right with Him then the things we do are in response to His Love because we stand in righteous relationship to Him and then we may become children of our Father YHWH.

After one is saved through faith in His grace given by His blood, can that person please God by works of love OR only by a continual faith in His grace given by His blood?

 

[Si_monfaith]

It is from another thread on the forum and very long. Better to post the link and perhaps allow @Christsfreeservant to speak for himself.

My phone doesn't allow links.

 

[Anguspure]

After one is saved through faith in His grace given by His blood, can that person please God by works of love OR only by a continual faith in His grace given by His blood?

Yes, not "OR" but "and".

 

[Si_monfaith]

Yes, not "OR" but "and".

So fater being saved, you exercise faith in not only the works of love which Jesus showed till His death on the cross in order to please the Father BUT do exercise faith in your works of love also in order to please the Father?

So why was your faith wholly & only in Jesus's works on the cross before you gained salvation?

 

[Anguspure]

So fater being saved, you exercise faith in not only the works of love which Jesus showed till His death on the cross in order to please the Father BUT do exercise faith in your works of love also in order to please the Father?

The works of faith are evidence that my belief in the efficacy of Yeshua's death and resurrection for salvation, and as a daily tree of life, are a matter of the heart. My belief is not simply some intellectual nod towards some intellectual truth. And yes the works of Love done by His children please our Father. it is what He created us to do after all.

So why was your faith wholly & only in Jesus's works on the cross before you gained salvation?

Because I was spiritually bankrupt. In the event we do not remain in him and do not take up the righteousness that He has freely bestowed upon us, we remain spiritually bankrupt.

 

[Si_monfaith]

The works of faith are evidence that my belief in the efficacy of Yeshua's death and resurrection for salvation, and as a daily tree of life, are a matter of the heart. My belief is not simply some intellectual nod towards some intellectual truth. And yes the works of Love done by His children please our Father. it is what He created us to do after all.

Because I was spiritually bankrupt. In the event we do not remain in him and do not take up the righteousness that He has freely bestowed upon us, we remain spiritually bankrupt.

The works of faith are evidence that my belief

Do you mean to say your incomplete works of compliance constitute an evidence of your faith in Christ?

Because I was spiritually bankrupt.

So you trusted in Christ's death & resurrection for salvation because you were spiritually bankrupt? Now, are you spiritually self-sufficient that you don't need faith in Christ's death & resurrection to please the Father?

 

[Anguspure]

Do you mean to say your incomplete works of compliance constitute an evidence of your faith in Christ?

When a person Loves because He first Loved them then they are putting actions to what they claim to trust. A person of little faith may do this inconsistently, a person of great faith will do it most of the time and in most circumstances, a person of perfect faith will do it all of the time irrespective of circumstance in perfect imitation of Him.

So you trusted in Christ's death & resurrection for salvation because you were spiritually bankrupt?

Yes.

Now, are you spiritually self-sufficient that you don't need faith in Christ's death & resurrection to please the Father?

No.

 

[Si_monfaith]

When a person Loves because He first Loved them then they are putting actions to what they claim to trust. A person of little faith may do this inconsistently, a person of great faith will do it most of the time and in most circumstances, a person of perfect faith will do it all of the time irrespective of circumstance in perfect imitation of Him.
Yes.

No.

perfect imitation of Him.

Do you mean to say you can imitate Christ's redemptive works of love?

a person of perfect faith will do it all of the time

Where does Bible say so? Is there an example in the Bible of someone who did perfect works of love as Christ did?

No.

So do you mean to say you are yet spiritually bankrupt & need faith in Christ's perfect works of love on the cross in order to please the Father?

Does Galatians 2:16 say, "for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified"? If so, as law is love, how do you say one can please the Father by works of love?

 

[Anguspure]

Do you mean to say you can imitate Christ's redemptive works of love?

Not that we "can" but that because we are part of His body, we are admonished to: A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— for we are members of his body. Ephesians 5

Where does Bible say so? Is there an example in the Bible of someone who did perfect works of love as Christ did?

All of the Apostles apart from John were murdered for their faith and this because they were willing to lay down their lives so that many could live by hearing and believing the gospel.

So do you mean to say you are yet spiritually bankrupt & need faith in Christ's perfect works of love on the cross in order to please the Father?

In order to come into, and remain in, righteous relationship with the Father I need Yeshua's perfect act of Love. He is the author and sustainer of my faith.
After this I can say that the Father is pleased with my good works, just as I am pleased with the things that my children do. He smiles upon those who He Loves.

Does Galatians 2:16 say, "for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified"? If so, as law is love, how do you say one can please the Father by works of love?

Law is not Love. Law is obligation. A thing done out of obligation is not Love. Only things done out of freedom can possibly be construed as Love.

I am not looking for justification by doing good things. I am justified by Yeshua and I am free to act. But because He Loves me and has done such good things for me my heart is moved with gratitude and love and I desire to do the things that please Him.

My children are no different and are not ungrateful for the things I have done for them, so in so far as they can they seek to do things that make me happy.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Not that we "can" but that because we are part of His body, we are admonished to: A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— for we are members of his body. Ephesians 5


All of the Apostles apart from John were murdered for their faith and this because they were willing to lay down their lives so that many could live by hearing and believing the gospel.


In order to come into, and remain in, righteous relationship with the Father I need Yeshua's perfect act of Love. He is the author and sustainer of my faith.
After this I can say that the Father is pleased with my good works, just as I am pleased with the things that my children do. He smiles upon those who He Loves.

Law is not Love. Law is obligation. A thing done out of obligation is not Love. Only things done out of freedom can possibly be construed as Love.

I am not looking for justification by doing good things. I am justified by Yeshua and I am free to act. But because He Loves me and has done such good things for me my heart is moved with gratitude and love and I desire to do the things that please Him.

My children are no different and are not ungrateful for the things I have done for them, so in so far as they can they seek to do things that make me happy.

Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another

So does He say it's possible for you to love others with the same redemptive love by which He saved from hell? If yes, your blood can save others?

All of the Apostles apart from John were murdered

Where does it say their deaths showed their perfect love, same as Christ who perfectly loved by His death which saves from hell?

they were willing to lay down their lives so that many could live by hearing and believing the gospel

Are they necessary rather than contingent beings without whose death, gospel can't have been communicated? Where does it say their deaths brought the gospel to us?

Law is not Love

Romans 13:10:"therefore love is the fulfilling of the law". Do you say law doesn't say to do works of love?

A thing done out of obligation is not Love

Aren't you trying to do works of love feeling obligated to please God?

I desire to do the things that please Him.

If God doesn't justify you based on your works of love (Galatians 2:16), how can you please God by your works of love? What difference do you see between God justifying you & being pleased with you?

 

[Anguspure]

So does He say it's possible for you to love others with the same redemptive love by which He saved from hell? If yes, your blood can save others?

The Love He gives us is only redemptive because He is not bankrupt, in fact He is the very light of life itself. The Love that is shown by a person who is redeemed by His act of Love is not less simply because the act does not have redemptive power, and so He says to us:

“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command. I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. This is my command: Love each other." John 15

Where does it say their deaths showed their perfect love, same as Christ who perfectly loved by His death which saves from hell?

They laid down their lives for the sake of passing on the gospel of salvation to many.

"Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends." John 15

The Apostles even did this for their enemies.

"But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven.....Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Matthew 5

Are they necessary rather than contingent beings without whose death, gospel can't have been communicated? Where does it say their deaths brought the gospel to us?

Are you not impressed with their sincerity? All that any of them needed to do to save their lives was to deny the gospel. But because they did not there is a strong apologetic for the truth of the faith that they proclaimed.

Romans 13:10:"therefore love is the fulfilling of the law". Do you say law doesn't say to do works of love?

Love fulfills the Law because the Law shows us a base line of the displeasure of YHWH, and Love lies well above that baseline. We work not to fulfill the Law but to Love our Father.

Aren't you trying to do works of love feeling obligated to please God?

Not at all. I agree with Paul who writes:

“I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but not everything is constructive. No one should seek their own good, but the good of others. 1 Corinthians 10

You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Galatians 5

If God doesn't justify you based on your works of love (Galatians 2:16), how can you please God by your works of love? What difference do you see between God justifying you & being pleased with you?

My children are my children irrespective of what they do, and I love them. If they do things that I don't like I am displeased and saddened, but I still Love them. But if they do things that please me, because they Love me I am ecstatic in my pleasure and my heart is filled with joy.
Are they obligated to act in any particular way? No. Because I value their freedom of action and thus know that the good that they do is an act of Love rather than one of fear and obligation.
Our Father in heaven created us in His image and, in His image, this is the way we are.

 

[Si_monfaith]

The Love He gives us is only redemptive because He is not bankrupt, in fact He is the very light of life itself. The Love that is shown by a person who is redeemed by His act of Love is not less simply because the act does not have redemptive power, and so He says to us:

“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command. I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. This is my command: Love each other." John 15


They laid down their lives for the sake of passing on the gospel of salvation to many.

"Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends." John 15

The Apostles even did this for their enemies.

"But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven.....Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Matthew 5


Are you not impressed with their sincerity? All that any of them needed to do to save their lives was to deny the gospel. But because they did not there is a strong apologetic for the truth of the faith that they proclaimed.


Love fulfills the Law because the Law shows us a base line of the displeasure of YHWH, and Love lies well above that baseline. We work not to fulfill the Law but to Love our Father.


Not at all. I agree with Paul who writes:

“I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but not everything is constructive. No one should seek their own good, but the good of others. 1 Corinthians 10

You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Galatians 5


My children are my children irrespective of what they do, and I love them. If they do things that I don't like I am displeased and saddened, but I still Love them. But if they do things that please me, because they Love me I am ecstatic in my pleasure and my heart is filled with joy.
Are they obligated to act in any particular way? No. Because I value their freedom of action and thus know that the good that they do is an act of Love rather than one of fear and obligation.
Our Father in heaven created us in His image and, in His image, this is the way we are.

The Love that is shown by a person who is redeemed by His act of Love is not less simply because the act does not have redemptive power,

So you agree your love lacks redemptive power? How then can it be not less that Christ's love which contains redemptive power? Can 1+1 equal 1?

Not that we "can" but that because we are part of His body, we are admonished to

If your love lacks redemptive power how will you be admonished to love with redemptive power?

"Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends." John 15

Doesn't perfect love refer to Christ's love which has redemptive power? If so, how can the death of the apostles be considered as perfect love?

Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Matthew 5

If you can be perfect as the Father, why should Christ display perfect love on the cross in order to reconcile you to the Father?

Are you not impressed with their sincerity?

Are you justifying Catholics who are impressed with the sincerity of mary, saints & the Popes?

But because they did not there is a strong apologetic for the truth of the faith that they proclaimed.

Is this your emotional opinion or biblical proof that the gospel came to us because they died as martyrs?

We work not to fulfill the Law but to Love our Father.

Doesn't the first 3 commandments in the law tell you to love the Father & the rest tells you to love your neighbor? So how is the law different from your stipulation to love the Father?

No one should seek their own good, but the good of others. 1 Corinthians 10

Does the law tell anything different?

Because I value their freedom of action and thus know that the good that they do is an act of Love rather than one of fear and obligation.

Did God give the knowledge of good and evil to Adam and Eve?