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How the great tribulation will end

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Douggg, May 27, 2021.

  1. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Near the end of the 7 years, the beast is attacked....
    upload_2021-5-27_10-41-56.jpeg
    After defeating the attackers from the south, he moves his operation back to Jerusalem, as news from the north and east causes him worry. He does it in Daniel 11:45. But shortly after doing so, something totally unexpected happens....


    _____________________________________________________
    upload_2021-5-27_9-47-42.jpeg

    ____________________________________________________
    At which time this happens....

    upload_2021-5-27_9-46-25.jpeg
    _________________________________

    Which causes the Kings of the earth, their armies already drawn into the middle east, to unite all their forces under the beast to attempt to make war on Jesus.

    They assemble at Armageddon, a plain north of Jerusalem for 45 days preparing. And move down to Jerusalem, taking the Jews in Jerusalem as hostages.

    At the end of the 45 days, Jesus descends from heaven and this takes place....


    upload_2021-5-27_9-48-57.jpeg


    Ending the Great Tribulation. And Satan's kingdom of Babylon the Great, and Satan to be a terror no more.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2021
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  2. Jeffwhosoever

    Jeffwhosoever Faithful Servant & Seminary Student Staff Member Assistant Chaplain Angels Team Supporter

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    I love your graphics. We are studying eschatology in bible study group and hope you don't mind if I share those visuals, but I won't until you say so. Can you cite the source in case there are more to be seen?
     
  3. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Use them as much as you want.

    Another graphic I made that you might be interesting in using is this one of the beast coming out of the sea in Revelation 13 with 42 months left in the 7 years.

    upload_2021-5-28_18-6-11.jpeg
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2021
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  4. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    You also might be interested in using these two graphics I made of events of the first half and second half of the seven years.

    upload_2021-5-29_1-10-3.jpeg

    upload_2021-5-28_19-0-7.jpeg
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2021
  5. Semper-Fi

    Semper-Fi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Revelations chart.jpg
     
  6. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Where are the 1335 days of Daniel 12:11-12 and the 1260 days of the two witnesses testimony, and the 42 months of the beast's rule on your chart?
     
  7. Jeffwhosoever

    Jeffwhosoever Faithful Servant & Seminary Student Staff Member Assistant Chaplain Angels Team Supporter

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    I've been wondering that too. Does Daniel 12 suggest a pre-wrath or mid-tribulation rapture? Otherwise, what is the significance of the time being split?
     
  8. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I see some problem with the chart:

    1.) First Seal (White Horse) is not a false prophet. Instead, it is Christ going forth conquer and to conquer sealing His People. That covered the period from Pentecost to Last Elect be sealed before the rest of horsemen comes.

    2.) 2nd Seal - 4th seal (Red, black and pale horses) are the horses of the Great Tribulation that attacks the Gospel.

    3.) 7th Seal - The Silence in heaven for half an hour represents the death of Two Witnesses where their witnesses have been silenced.

    4.) The Seven Trumpets. It is not the consecutive trumpets view because I see these things repeated. The Seven trumpets represent a Revelation of the mystery and "completion" of all things -- each giving a different view or perspective of many of the VERY SAME "EVENTS" of these final things. Even the days of the seventh Messenger sounding, which signals that the end has come. Much like the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. The seven vials contain the plagues, not the Trumpets, FYI.
     
  9. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    My question is what would the start of the seven years of Jacob's trouble look like? Any graphs on that?
     
  10. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Jesus was baptized. That is when the religious beliefs of the Jews started being troubled.
     
  11. Jeffwhosoever

    Jeffwhosoever Faithful Servant & Seminary Student Staff Member Assistant Chaplain Angels Team Supporter

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    Disagree the first rider is the Lord. Why would the Lord have a bow (and presumbably arrows) and bent on conquest before the next riders appear? Where in all of Scripture does the Lord appear with a bow? Why would Jesus have to be given a crown for this first ride?

    Revelation 6:2: "I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest."

    Bent on conquest implies motivation but lacks potency we would expect to hear if this was the Lord Jesus. Being given a crown sounds like God ordained this event but I can't see Jesus needing to be given a crown here.

    How can the Lamb be still in Heaven to open the next seal if He has already been sent out to conquest?
    Why would Jesus make a U turn and have to come back later in Revelation 19:11-16 which describes a very different rider? Jesus would have to go out to conquest, return to heaven, open the next seal, then return again on yet another horse. Why two trips? The Lord won't need a horse to rapture the church, when He comes as a thief in the night (total surprise). The horse would be most likely to be transportation on the earth. If Jesus is meeting us in the clouds, what is the need for a horse at all?

    Why would the first rider not have been called King of King and Lord of Lords if that first rider was the Lord? The only title the first rider is given is "rider." Now compare the description of the first rider to the description below:

    Revelation 19:11-16:
    "11 And I saw the heaven opened; and behold, a white horse, and he that sat thereon called Faithful and True; and in righteous he doth judge and make war.

    12 And his eyes [are] a flame of fire, and upon his head [are] many diadems; and he hath a name written which no one knoweth but he himself.

    13 And he [is] arrayed in a garment sprinkled with blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

    14 And the armies which are in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white [and] pure.

    15 And out of his mouth proceedeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of God, the Almighty.

    16 And he hath on his garment and on his thigh a name written, KINGS OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2021
  12. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The rider on the white horse is the little horn person. Not the false prophet.

    The false prophet will anoint the little horn person to be the King of Israel coming in his own name to become the Antichrist.
     
  13. Jeffwhosoever

    Jeffwhosoever Faithful Servant & Seminary Student Staff Member Assistant Chaplain Angels Team Supporter

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    That oil rich part makes complete sense. It could be OPEC, not the Eurozone. They are the ones who sourround Israel now and want to destroy her.
     
  14. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I don't have. But maybe I will make a graphic though.
     
  15. Jeffwhosoever

    Jeffwhosoever Faithful Servant & Seminary Student Staff Member Assistant Chaplain Angels Team Supporter

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    I love Doug's graphics! :)
     
  16. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Following Gog/Magog, things will change and many of those countries in the middle east and their infrastructure will be destroyed. Gog/Magog is basically God's judgement on Islam.

    The motivation for the EU to seize the moment and move into the void is that Europe does not have oil resources of its own to be self sustaining. Plus there is power in whoever controls the middle east oil.
     
  17. Jeffwhosoever

    Jeffwhosoever Faithful Servant & Seminary Student Staff Member Assistant Chaplain Angels Team Supporter

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    Yep the price of gas in Europe is entirely crazy due to their lack of oil. No wonder they build such tiny 50 mpg vehicles and ride a lot of motor scooters. Indeed who controls the oil has a lot of power.
     
  18. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Biblical precedence or at least biblical warrant is necessary. We can't just surmise that because there are a lot of evil horses there, the white one is evil too. Selah! The truth of the symbolism is found only in comparing scripture with scripture. Comparing one image of the rider with another image of rider. Not comparing the image of a rider with the image of a beast. We have to have consistency throughout. Let's start by comparing the two riders. Does this rider in Revelation chapter six compare favorably to the "figures" of Satan that God inspires in scripture? Of course not, the answer is obvioulsy NO! Do they compare with the "figure" God inspires as representing Christ? Then answer is Yes. Let's compare.

    Revelation 6:2
    • "And I saw, and behold a White Horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."
    Revelation 19:11-12
    • "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a White Horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
    • His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
    They compare favorably. In fact, almost identically right down to His coming for warfare, and the crown symbolizing He rules. The question is, why would anyone like you (based upon what is written in Revelation 6:2) think that this rider on the white horse is someone different from the rider on the white horse in Revelation nineteen? There certainly is nothing (at all) in Revelation 6:2 that would lead us to believe He is a different rider. So where would we get the idea? ..I submit that it comes from man's own reasoning and teachings, rather than what is actually written there.

    Now first consideration. Satan's strength is NEVER symbolized by the color white. And the horses are the symbol of the rider's strength. When you mount an army (in those days) your strength was measured by your number of horsemen. Horsemen gave you the advantage of strength in war. And colors (like numbers) carry great spiritual significance. White 'unquestionably' symbolizes purity or righteousness. For example, the great white throne, the white stone, the clean white robes given the elect, the white cloud that the son of man sat on, the hair white like wool, etc., etc. And here, the "White" horse is in that very same vein of symbols found in the rest of the book of Revelation.

    Horse = Strength of battle
    White = Righteousness
    Horseman on white horse = He who comes in strength of Righteous for warfare.

    = Christ!

    Christ judges and makes war in righteousness. This color white is not "incidental" in Revelation, it is in harmony with the symbolism in revelation. This is no small matter to be cast aside as insignificant (as some do). Because interpretations come from comparing scripture with scripture, and that is "extremely" important. Why would God use white to symbolize the rider coming in righteousness in one book of Revelation, and then assign that color to Satan's horse? He's NOT coming in the strength of righteousness. It makes no sense. Some, like you just did, said because he is a "false prophet", but God doesn't need to assign the color white to a horse to show false prophecy. A White horse doesn't symbolize false prophecy at all! It symbolizes riding in truth, purity, cleanness, and righteousness. We have our two identifiers. The horseman symbolizing He comes in strength (Job 39:19; Isaiah 31:1; Psalm 33:17; Psalm 147:10) of warfare, and color of the horse being white to symbolize He comes in righteous warfare and judgment. Just as Revelation 19 also so clearly illustrates. And as all of Revelation postulates:

    Revelation 16:7
    • "And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments."
    Christ comes in righteous judgments and the white horse in Revelation chapter six symbolizes righteousness, just as Revelation nineteen does! They are synonymous with each other, the very same symbolism. It is inconsistent for us to say that the white Horse in Revelation chapter six symbolizes Satan, and then claim the white horse in Revelation chapter nineteen does not. That it switches and now symbolizes Christ. Where is the logic for such an abrupt change? They are BOTH white horses! If there is one thing I have learned in my study of the scriptures, it is that "inconsistency is the hallmark of error," and is almost always the vehicle of every wrong interpretation. For example, you can't have the Candlesticks in Revelation 2 symbolize the Church, and then turn around in Revelation chapter 11 and claim it now represents two physical men who will come and witness, humm?? This is not the way to rightly divide the word of truth. Consistency is paramount, and God declares that it is in "Righteousness" that this rider on the white horse goes forth to judge and make war. Again, total agreement and harmony with the horse (symbolizing strength of battle) being white.

    Now, you asked why does the rider in Revelation 6 have ONE CROWN and the rider in Revelation 19 has MANY CROWNS. Easy. In Revelation 6, when the seal is loosed, we see this rider is GIVEN A KINGDOM (symbolized by the crown) which established His Kingdom through the church and went forth conquer and TO CONQUER sealing all His People throughout the New Testament. Then in Revelation 19, we see this rider has many crowns (illustrating He is King of Kings and rules over many nations). Where did he get many crowns from? From very people whom He saved:

    Rev 4:10-11
    (10) The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
    (11) Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

    They are the kings and priests (lords) of Christ's kingdom. They cast their crowns to Christ. It is a total agreement with Christ going forth in righteousness. Christ was crowned king of kings and Lord of lords by his meritorious work and suffering on the cross. He established His kingdom by that suffering and death. ..to this end was He born.

    Hebrews 2:9
    • "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."
    Matthew 27:29
    • "And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!"
    So mock as they would, the truth is, Jesus was indeed crowned King of the Jews by this meritorious work on the cross. He was given a crown, He did "establish" this kingdom by this work. And so again, we have complete and total harmony with the figure being representative of Christ given a crown, and not Satan. Satan hardly rides forth on the vehicle of righteousness (white horse) that he goes forth "both" conquering (overcoming) and to conquer (overcome). This can only be Christ who rides thusly. He is this warrior crowned King and we are his army on white horses who are in battle in this spiritual warfare with Him.

    Revelation 17:14
    • "These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."
    Revelation 12:11
    • "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."
    The symbolism of this warfare which Christ goes forth conquering and conquering permeates all throughout scripture.

    Now about the bow in Revelation 6. Of course, like you, many have postulated that this proves that this is not Christ, because Christ doesn't have a bow in Revelation chapter nineteen. Someone also told me, "...See Christ has no sword in Revelation chapter 6, so that proves it's not Christ." But this is all a self-serving exegesis. Such interpretations are easily debunked. For example, Christ has hair that is white like wool in Revelation chapter one, but it isn't mentioned in Revelation nineteen. Does that mean that Christ in Revelation chapter one is not Christ in Revelation nineteen? Of course not! That would be a nonsensical way of interpreting. True interpretations come from comparing scripture with scripture in the light of the "Whole" Bible. Doing that is the only way to come to the real truth. So let's do are the more noble Bereans and search the scriptures to see if these things are true. Where else do we see this horseman riding with this bow? Is it an image of Satan or Christ?

    Psalms 7:11-13
    • "God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.
    • If he turn not, he will whet his sword; he hath bent his Bow, and made it ready.
    • He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; he ordaineth his arrows against the persecutors."
    Here is the Lord pictured as with His bow and His arrows and coming in judgment (Revelation 6), and His whet sword (Revelation 19). These symbolisms in Revelation are not untraditional teaching, it is a teaching as old as the scriptures themselves. Interpretations belong to God. When we see Christ riding in Revelation chapter six in righteousness with a bow, it "should" send us right to the Psalms where we unambiguously see the very same spiritual pictures. ..and He who hath an ear, let him hear.

    Psalms 45:3-7
    • " Gird thy sword upon thy thigh, O most mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty.
    • And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things.
    • Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee.
    • Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
    • Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."
    Who is this horseman with a bow, who rides a horse in righteousness? Is it Satan? No, it is Christ that has been anointed King, been given a crown, is riding prosperously with this bow in "Righteousness" to judge and make war. How much clearer can it get?! Moreover, God confirms the fulfillment of this prophecy of Christ in Hebrews as He quotes this of Jesus.

    Hebrews 1:8
    • "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."
    This taken directly from that Psalm quoted above. Clearly, the idea that the rider in Revelation 6:2 cannot be Christ because He has a bow is nonsensical, and because He has no sword is also shown to be untenable. Here in Psalms 45 we see this rider Christ has BOTH the sword and bow and goes forth riding prosperously conquering and to conquer. And He has been given a crown.

    Luke 1:32-33
    • "He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
    • And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."
    Indeed He is given a crown, and indeed He does go forth conquering and to conquer. In Revelation chapter six the crown given the rider in righteousness is no contradiction to Revelation nineteen. Satan may go forth and conquer, but Christ is the only one who goes forth Conquering and to Conquer. Not temporarily but forever! In other words, overcoming and to overcome! Prevailing and to Prevail! Satan doesn't qualify at all! Satan may overcome temporarily, but not to overcome ultimately.

    The white horse is the strength of Christ's warfare, whereupon he rides when he goes to conquer and subdue new converts and translate them into his kingdom. He comes in the strength of His majesty, truth, meekness, and righteousness, which are made known in the preaching of His gospel. He goes forth tearing down strongholds, that the gates of hell cannot stand against him. He frees the prisoners therein. It is a spiritual warfare where we are either an army with Christ or an army against him.

    Luke 11:21-23
    • "When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
    • But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
    • He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth."
    The gates of Hell shall not prevail against Christ, he shall break down those gates, free the prisoners, and build His Church. As this rider on the white horse, He goes forth conquering and to conquer, and thus, over the last 2000 years the Church has been built! He has made his people the kings and priests of His kingdom through the church as a witnesses to the nation with Gospel! And they gave their crowns to Christ who has become "King of kings and Lord of lords" which explains why He has received many crowns in the end! Selah!

    There is no mention anywhere of Satan going forth righteously riding on a white horse, conquering and conquering forever!
     
  19. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Where does it say in Scripture that little horn will ride on a white horse? If you can't you do not have the truth.

    Enough with your speculations. Please show us the Scripture.

    Who introduced into Revelation 6:2, Satan as an angel (messenger) of light? Was it God or you? Because I read in that verse of a horse, which is White, and his rider, which has a bow. Nothing more. So, the question is, where does this image of Satan being the rider come from? Certainly not from the actual text of that verse. Not even your precious "little horn" theory. Or of any verse that speaks of a white horse.

    Of course, I will apologize if you can search the scriptures and produce anywhere where God shows Satan on a white horse with a bow going forth as a conquerer. Because I can certainly show in scripture Christ on a white horse with bow going forth as a conquerer and to conquer which means forever!

    That Satan comes as a messenger of light, no one denies. That's unadulterated scripture. But he does not come riding upon a White horse, which symbolizes righteousness, with this bow, conquering and to conquer. That's not insignificant. That would be confusing, since only Christ and his army (not Satan and his) ride upon white horses in scripture. The reason for this is that it illustrates that they ride in strength of righteousness. NOTE also we don't see this rider or his army looking like they come in strength of righteousness "mind you," but we actually see the image of them coming in the strength of the righteousness of God. ...actually riding white horses. Just like Revelation chapter 6.

    Revelation 19:14
    • "And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean."
    These armies don't come as if they're riding upon white horses, or come "looking like" they have white horses, or come "masquerading" as White horses, they actually come upon white horses--Just as Christ! Hello?!

    What shall we say then, that these white horses and this white linen symbolize they only looked like they were righteous, or it was something other than righteousness only in revelation 6:2 simply because that fits your flawed eschatology? No, the symbolism is consistent and obvious! Or it should be. It doesn't jump from one meaning to another as the chapters of Revelation roll by, God is consistent in His symbolism. That is precisely why we can come to the truth of interpretations. Because it's not a horse symbolizing strength in one chapter and a boat in another. That's what makes scripture consistent and able to be rightly understood. That's what makes a star a Messenger in verse 1 of Revelation and also a Messenger in verse 12. That's what makes a Candlestick the church in verse 2 and also the church in verse 11, or even the church in chapter 11. That's what makes the red Dragon Satan in Revelation 12, and the Dragon in Revelation 20 the very same Satan. Precisely because we don't say it's Satan in one chapter and Christ in another. It's just sounds exegesis.

    Selah!
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2021
  20. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Be careful not to be deceived by "newspaper eschatology" that you seem to allow the world events to read into Bible prophecy - often substituted for serious pursuits of biblical and theological studies as well as Christian sanctification and discipleship!
     
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