How Old Is The Earth

[Job 33:6]

Some say the third Hebrew letter, gimel (ג), is a stylized image of a camel's head, neck, and front legs. This can represent trade and transportation. Today we have Jet planes as our mode of transportation in the modern world or in this moment of time.


Civilization can mean a lot of different things. According to Bishop Ussher Adam and Eve were created 6000 years ago. He says Oct 29 4004 BC based on the equinox of that year.

According to Science mankind goes back hundreds of millions of years. The concept of sex, male and female goes back a lot further than that. Jesus in His discussion on marriage talks
about how Adam and Eve were created male and female. We are told that God has a plan and a purpose in this. WE are told that a man and women, husband and wife is a type of the marriage between the Bride and Jesus.
The marriage between a husband and wife is often considered a symbol of the spiritual union between Christ and believers.

Gerold Schroeder is the only person who can get science to line up with the Bible. This was something I had problems for a very long time. AT least 20 years until I read what Schroeder has to say about this.

Gerald Schroeder - Articles - Age of the Universe

There is no conflict between science and the Bible. Also the Bible does not conflict with itself. Science confirms the Bible and the Bible confirms Science so that they are able to work together in harmony even if people want to deny that.

Mankind does not go back hundreds of millions of years according to science.

My point was that, domesticated camels are found in Genesis 4, though they were only recently domesticated. Which creates an issue if you believe that the geneologies contain scientifically accurate ages.

 

[Job 33:6]

Some say the third Hebrew letter, gimel (ג), is a stylized image of a camel's head, neck, and front legs. This can represent trade and transportation. Today we have Jet planes as our mode of transportation in the modern world or in this moment of time.


Civilization can mean a lot of different things. According to Bishop Ussher Adam and Eve were created 6000 years ago. He says Oct 29 4004 BC based on the equinox of that year.

According to Science mankind goes back hundreds of millions of years. The concept of sex, male and female goes back a lot further than that. Jesus in His discussion on marriage talks
about how Adam and Eve were created male and female. We are told that God has a plan and a purpose in this. WE are told that a man and women, husband and wife is a type of the marriage between the Bride and Jesus.
The marriage between a husband and wife is often considered a symbol of the spiritual union between Christ and believers.

Gerold Schroeder is the only person who can get science to line up with the Bible. This was something I had problems for a very long time. AT least 20 years until I read what Schroeder has to say about this.

Gerald Schroeder - Articles - Age of the Universe

There is no conflict between science and the Bible. Also the Bible does not conflict with itself. Science confirms the Bible and the Bible confirms Science so that they are able to work together in harmony even if people want to deny that.

The Bible is not a science textbook.

 

[Job 33:6]

יְהוָ֧ה Yah-weh Genesis 3:8 uses both names together We do not see Yah-weh until Genesis chapter two. אֱלֹהִ֔ים (e·lo·him,) This is the name we see in Genesis chapter one. John 1 explains 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.… Beginning here is a reference to Genesis chapter two.

Seems off topic. The point is that, it is God the Father walking in the garden in chapter 3. Not Jesus.

 

[Job 33:6]

And Jesus’ enemies? Are they going to be His temple? They’re going to be His footstool. You’re taking the word footstool out of context after I’ve already explained what the metaphor means. The footstool metaphor has absolutely zero, nothing, nada to do with God’s temple. It’s a metaphor for those who are subjugated to His authority. The earth is subjugated to His authority. Christ’s enemies are subjugated to His authority. The earth is not a resting place for His feet in His temple and His enemies are not a resting place for His feet in His temple either. Are Christ’s enemies going to be in His temple in heaven being used as an ottoman? How is it that even after I’ve pointed this out you still refuse to grasp the concept of the metaphorical meaning of footstool?

These passages absolutely have to do with a temple. What are you talking about? God's throne is in His temple. Where else do you think His throne would be? In a swamp? No! That's where thrones are! They are in temples! God is a King, He rules from His temple.

Is anyone home up there?

‭Isaiah 6:1
[1] In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lofty; and the hem of his robe filled the temple.

As the glory of the Lord entered the temple by the gate facing east, the Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court; and behold, the glory of the Lord filled the temple. While the man was standing beside me, I heard one speaking to me out of the temple, and he said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the people of Israel forever. And the house of Israel shall no more defile my holy name, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoring and by the dead bodies of their kings at their high places,
Ezekiel 43:4‭-‬7

The Lord is in His holy temple; the Lord’s throne is in heaven; His eyes see, His eyelids test the sons of mankind.
Psalms 11:4

Until I find a place for the Lord, A dwelling place [Solomons temple] for the Mighty One of Jacob.” Let’s go into His dwelling place; Let’s worship at His footstool. Arise, Lord, to Your resting place, You and the ark of Your strength. ¶For the Lord has chosen Zion; He has desired it as His dwelling place. “This is My resting place forever; Here I will sit enthroned, for I have desired it.
Psalms 132:5‭, ‬7‭-‬8‭, ‬13‭-‬14 NIV

This is what the Lord says: “Heaven is My throne and the earth is the footstool for My feet. Where then is a house [temple] you could build for Me? And where is a place that I may rest?
Isaiah 66:1

How many passages do you need to understand this?

And from His throne, He rules. And God has a heavenly temple council as well. It's all very plainly stated in the Bible.

‭1 Kings 22:19-22 NRSV‬
[19] Then Micaiah said, “Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, with all the host of heaven standing beside him to the right and to the left of him. [20] And the Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab, so that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’ Then one said one thing, and another said another, [21] until a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, saying, ‘I will entice him.’ [22] ‘How?’ the Lord asked him. He replied, ‘I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ Then the Lord said, ‘You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do it.’

‭Job 2:1 NRSV‬
[1] One day the heavenly beings came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the Lord.

‭Psalms 82:1 NRSV‬
[1] God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:

‭Psalms 89:6-7 NRSV‬
[6] For who in the skies can be compared to the Lord? Who among the heavenly beings is like the Lord, [7] a God feared in the council of the holy ones, great and awesome above all that are around him?

‭Isaiah 6:1-3, 6-8 NRSV‬
[1] In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lofty; and the hem of his robe filled the temple. [2] Seraphs were in attendance above him; each had six wings: with two they covered their faces, and with two they covered their feet, and with two they flew. [3] And one called to another and said: “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory.”
[6] Then one of the seraphs flew to me, holding a live coal that had been taken from the altar with a pair of tongs. [7] The seraph touched my mouth with it and said: “Now that this has touched your lips, your guilt has departed and your sin is blotted out.” [8] Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?” And I said, “Here am I; send me!”

This is what the old testament repeatedly stated over and over and over again.

God rests on His throne. He doesn't rest on a couch. And His throne is in His temple. The throne isn't in an airplane. His throne is where all thrones are. In temples. And His heavenly council is there with Him.

And that's what the Bible says.

So, read Genesis, it begins with "In the Beginning" in construct form (see Jeremiah 26:1 and 27:1 by comparison), it proceeds 7 days as temple inaugurations do in the OT (2 chronicles and 1 kings)and elsewhere in ancient times, and it ends with God taking up the throne, His resting place, where He rests on the 7th day of Genesis.

It's all right there, plainly stated.

‭Isaiah 66:1-2 NRSV‬
[1] Thus says the Lord: Heaven is my throne and the earth is my footstool; what is the [Temple] that you would build for me, and what is my resting place? [2] All these things my hand has made, and so all these things are mine, says the Lord. But this is the one to whom I will look, to the humble and contrite in spirit, who trembles at my word.

It's simply saying, all of creation is God's temple, and what temple could be built with human hands for Him? His temple is already here.

“But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Even heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain you, much less this house that I have built!
Hear the plea of your servant and of your people Israel when they pray toward this place; O hear in heaven your dwelling place; hear and forgive.
1 King‬ ‭8:27‬

Heaven, the place where God dwells, it isn't enough to contain Him, much less the earthly temples built by human hands.

Creation is God's holy temple. It's the place where He dwells, rests enthroned, and rules.

And that's what all of these passages are pointing back to. And that's what Genesis is describing too.

The Genesis creation story isn't about us. It's not about you. It's about Him. It's about Him taking up the throne to rule. And if people would just read their Bibles, they'd know this.

 

[Ace777]

Seems off topic. The point is that, it is God the Father walking in the garden in chapter 3. Not Jesus.

I was responding to YOUR post that said:

‭Genesis 3 explicitly says that it is "Yahwey" walking in the garden.

Check your Hebrew

I did exactly what you said to do.

‭Genesis 3 explicitly says that it is "Yahwey" walking in the garden.

Check your Hebrew

 

[tdidymas]

Moses had an Egypt education. Best you could get in his day. Abraham also had the best education you could get in Ur at the time. Both the Egyptians and Chaldeans were pretty advanced. But you had to be able to separate truth from error. Moses and Abraham were both able to do that.

I never said Moses had only a Hebrew education, as you seem to assume. Moses probably did not have a formal Hebrew education, and there probably was none available at the time. The education I'm talking about is the oral tradition, learning what was passed down through the generations. You might have seen this by reading past posts in this thread. Yes, Moses did likely have a formal Egyptian education, and this was the point of saying he likely understood the cosmos as they did at the time.

 

[tdidymas]

I’m not trying to exaggerate, I simply said I’m not aware of any verse that specifically stated that Jesus performed a miracle when He turned water to wine. I’m at work so I didn’t really have an opportunity to search for it, which is why I asked if there was such a verse and you did provide one. So I’m not arguing against it. And in the Big Bang theory matter existed before the Big Bang, in the biblical creation process the universe was created ex nihilo, from nothing in 6 days. Even if the earth did exist before the 6 days of creation, which Exodus 20:11 says it didn’t but even if it did Genesis 1 describes it as formless and void. So you have no life, no plants, no animals, and no ecosystem, and all of that happened in 6 days? According to science that’s just as impossible as the entire universe being created in 6 days. So your argument that the earth existed before the 6 day creation process still doesn’t work because there was no ecosystem without plants. So now you still have the problem of no food available for all the animals to eat unless the plants started bearing fruit in 3 days. Not to mention the fact that on day one there’s no sun yet so the planet would be a frozen block of ice. That’s if you’re actually going by “natural occurrence” with no miracles being used.

I think you assume too much. The earth could have existed as a water covered rock before there was any life on earth. This is what seems to be communicated in the statement "and the earth was without form and void," - meaning:
The earth existed as a water-covered rock,
without form means there was no exposed land, so it was just a water - covered rock,
void means it had no life in it, that is, it was devoid of life.

I can certainly see how it could mean exactly that. This would account for astronomical evidence that the U existed for B of years, in which we see events happening that are up to 10B light years away.

But then, the Bible is not a science textbook, so trying to make it fit modern science is an erroneous method of interpretation. This is why I'm saying I'll hold to what science shows, that is, observations that imply there is something wrong with the traditional 6k year old U. So saying that Gen. 1 follows ANE cosmology, which it does actually look like it, is the best explanation of it IMO.

 

[tdidymas]

Doesn’t Exodus 20:11 answer that:
“For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day…”

Easily explained by God accommodating man's understanding of cosmology.

 

[tdidymas]

Nobody was around to witness the creation process. You’re saying that Moses got the creation narrative handed down through his ancestors when there wasn’t a single man alive to witness the creation process.

Precisely why ANE cosmology was figured out by men of the times. They thought that their conclusions about the cosmos was correct, based on their observations. Their idea was the "science" of the day, except they didn't have Galileo's telescopes to see they needed to rethink it. Gen 1 looks much like ANE cosmology. The difference is that the only true God creating everything is being communicated.

 

[tdidymas]

God didn’t have to accommodate man’s “limited understanding” because man already understood how to understand the concept of billions.

“They blessed Rebekah and said to her, “May you, our sister, Become thousands of ten thousands, And may your descendants possess The gate of those who hate them.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭24‬:‭60‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

This is from Genesis written by Moses. So apparently there was no problem with comprehending billions.

The Bible is not a science or math textbook, and it's a mistake to try and make it so.

 

[trophy33]

Genealogies in the Bible serve as fascinating threads that connect generations, revealing intricate relationships and historical context. Let’s explore some key aspects:

1. Biblical Genealogies:
   • The book of Genesis provides several genealogies, tracing the descendants of Adam and Eve. These genealogies highlight the lineal male descent to Abraham, including the age at which each patriarch fathered his named son and the subsequent years they lived.
   • Notably, Genesis 5 presents the genealogy from Adam to Noah, while chapter 10 records the male descendants of Noah in the Table of Nations.
2. Genealogy of Jesus:
   • The New Testament offers two accounts of Jesus’ genealogy: one in the Gospel of Matthew and another in the Gospel of Luke.
   • Matthew’s genealogy starts with Abraham, emphasizing Jesus’ connection to the Jewish lineage. In contrast, Luke’s account begins with Adam, emphasizing Jesus’ universal significance as the Savior for all humanity1.
   • Interestingly, the lists are identical between Abraham and David but diverge significantly afterward. Matthew traces twenty-seven generations from David to Joseph, while Luke lists forty-two, with minimal overlap between names. The discrepancy even extends to Joseph’s father: Matthew identifies him as Jacob, while Luke refers to him as Heli1.
3. Interpretations and Speculations:
   • Various theories attempt to explain the differences in these genealogies. Some suggest that Matthew follows Joseph’s lineage, while Luke traces his legal lineage through his biological uncle via Levirate marriage1.
   • It’s essential to recognize that genealogies serve multiple purposes, including showing relations, inheritance, and priesthood power. They also demonstrate God’s consistency throughout time, connecting significant figures like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Noah, and Jesus2.
4. Scientific Worldview:
   • While genealogies provide valuable historical context, they exist within a theological framework. Literal interpretations and symbolic meanings coexist, and reconciling them with scientific perspectives can be complex.
   • Ultimately, genealogies invite us to explore our shared human heritage and the unfolding story of redemption across generations.

Remember that these genealogies offer more than mere lists of names—they reveal God’s providence, human frailty, and the grand narrative of salvation.

AI copy&paste again?

 

[trophy33]

There are examples of people using those genealogies. Regardless of the reason for using them if they are using them then the level of confidence of them is real

Using them, but in the theological or genealogical way. Never to number their ages as if these were literal.

 

[Ace777]

AI copy&paste again?

yep people like to accuse me so I do not have any opinion of my own to give you. If you have a problem with AI then you need to talk to Gates or Musk about that. They are the primary investors in that technology.

 

[trophy33]

There is not much debate that Adam was created 6k years ago or using those same genealogies to determine when Moses, Abraham, Noah is dated.

This is obviously an absurd statement. What do you mean there is not much debate? Only the YEC folk claim the creation to be 6k years ago, the rest (the vast majority) of Christians do not and there is much debate because of it, even in this thread.

Assuming the genealogies are complete and accurate (if you want that qualifier added) then the Bible tells us Creation was 6k years ago.

Thats a huge assuming, which goes against the symbolism found in the genealogies themselves and against basically all of the natural and historical evidence.

Also, why do you define the Bible as the Massoretic text, only? The Septuagint will not give you 6,000 years.

That timeline is supported by recorded History

Ancient people did not write scientific kind of history, but mythological kind if history. The beginnings of the agricultural era, of civilizations, of Egypt, Summer can be presented by them as the point of creation, as the beginning, but its not scientific. People existed long before that, as hunters and gatherers, through ice ages.

Its good to know that ancient Mesopotamian people saw chaos as non-existence. Only things that are ordered and got a function in an ordered system are existing. They did not use the material view of existence as we use today.

 

[trophy33]

The Bible does say it.

Nope. Its only a calculation built upon multiple shaky theological and textual speculations.

 

[trophy33]

yep people like to accuse me so I do not have any opinion of my own to give you. If you have a problem with AI then you need to talk to Gates or Musk about that. They are the primary investors in that technology.

I do not need you to create such posts, I can talk to some AI directly, without you as a middleman.

 

[Platte]

Using them, but in the theological or genealogical way. Never to number their ages as if these were literal.

Archaeologist and historians have certainly used them that way

 

[trophy33]

Archaeologist and historians have certainly used them that way

There is no example in the Bible of summing the ages of patriarchs to get the age of the Universe. And there is also no instruction in the Bible to do it.

No serious archeologist or historian thinks people lived 900 years, literally. Only the YEC camp proponents, but those also believe people lived with dinosaurs and various other kinds of nonsense.

 

[Job 33:6]

I was responding to YOUR post that said:

‭Genesis 3 explicitly says that it is "Yahwey" walking in the garden.

Check your Hebrew

I did exactly what you said to do.

Ok and? Genesis 3:8

Are you saying that Yahweh, that is, the proper name of God the Father, was not walking in the garden, and that this was actually talking about Jesus walking in the garden?

Elohim isn't a proper name. Elohim is just an identifier for a super natural being. So when it says Yahwey Elohim, it's referring to the father. As opposed to some other elohim such as the rebellious sons of God.

When it says "Yahwey" it's talking about Yahwey. It's not talking about Jesus. See Psalm 82 or Psalm 89 for comparison.

 

[Ace777]

So when it says Yahwey Elohim, it's referring to the father.

That is pretty much the traditional understanding of the scripture.
What does this have to do with the age of the earth?