How Old Is The Earth

[BNR32FAN]

And in Hebrew, the term used in genesis for "Create" is "bara", and bara is always ex materia in the old testament. Of the dozens of times its used, its never in ex nihilo terms. Humanity was Bara in Genesis 1, but we know that Adam was made of dust and eve of a rib bone, that's not ex nihilo. The psalmist asks God to bara a clean heart in him, the psalmist isn't asking of heart surgery. The Isrealites bara sign posts etc.

Earth isn't created until day 3 of Genesis. God doesn't create the earth, say that its good in verse 1, then go back and create earth again in day 3. He isn't creating earth multiple times. God created with the spoken word, and He didn't begin speaking until Genesis 1:3 "And God said". God didn't say anything in verse 1. Every single creation day begins with "And God said". And that doesn't happen until God begins by saying "let there be light". That's the first thing God created, light. This is additionally verified in Psalm 104, Gods light is paralleled with a garment, and this is described prior to the heavens and the Earth's creation.

YECs just don't know how to read the Bible, its really that simple.

104 Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
Day 1 (Light) to 2 (the heavens):
2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
Day 2 continued:
3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
Day 3:
5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

The text goes on to speak of God filling the earth with animals. Days 1-3 address tohu, Days 4-6 address bohu.

And this isn't mysticism, it’s just how the Bible was written.

Just because you say that God doesn’t create anything unless the scriptures specifically says “God said let there be” doesn’t make it true. Where’d the water come from? Did God create the water or did it always exist? Where does God say let there be water? On day 3 God didn’t say let there be earth. He said “Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so.” Let dry land appear raah not let there be dry land. Raah means to make visible or able to see which means it was already there under the water. So obviously the earth and the water was created in verse 1 along with the heavens.

 

[Job 33:6]

Another issue with Adam 12,000 years ago:

‭Genesis 4:22
[22] Zillah bore Tubal-cain, who made all kinds of bronze and iron tools. The sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.

They didn't have bronze and iron in 10,000BC. This verse is from before Seth was even born.

 

[Job 33:6]

You haven’t quoted anything from Genesis 1 or Genesis 2. You’re quoting proverbial passages that mention the word earth that have nothing to do with creation. The earth being God’s footstool is a metaphor. Are Jesus’ enemies going to be His temple when His enemies are made His footstool? The word footstool is a metaphor for those who are under subjugation to God. The earth being His footstool simply means that the earth is in subjugation to His authority. It has nothing AT ALL to do with His temple.

I use the Bible to understand the Bible. I'm not going to quote Genesis day 7 with God resting because that's the passage in question. Hence why I shared a dozen other passages that show that every time God rests, God does so in a temple, on His throne.

It has everything to do with a temple. That's why over and over and over again, the Bible states that heaven and earth, God's creation, are His throne and footstool.

That's what that's about. God enthroned. As King. And all kings have temples. Thats where thrones are. What you thought his throne was in a regular house? Hence why the Bible over and over and over again talks about God enthroned in His temple. And we know that creation is His temple, the Bible tells us so very plainly:

Isaiah 66:1
This is what the Lord says: “Heaven is My throne and the earth is the footstool for My feet. Where then is a house [temple] you could build for Me? And where is a place that I may rest?

‭Isaiah 66:2
[2] All these things my hand has made, and so all these things are mine, says the Lord.

That's God Himself. Saying, all these things, all of creation He made. So of what value is an earthly temple to Him? Creation is His temple. Hence, heaven is His throne, earth is His footstool.

The Lord is in His holy temple; the Lord’s throne is in heaven; His eyes see, His eyelids test the sons of mankind.
Psalms 11:4

And over and over and over again, God rests, in His temple. It's stated over and over and over again.

Now then arise, Lord God, to Your resting place, You and the ark of Your might; let Your priests, Lord God, be clothed with salvation, and let Your godly ones rejoice in what is good.
2 Chronicles 6:41

By wisdom a temple is built,
and by understanding it is established;
by knowledge the rooms are filled
with all precious and pleasant riches. (Prov. 24:3-4)
The LORD by wisdom founded the earth;
by understanding he established the heavens;
by his knowledge the deeps broke open,
and the clouds drop down the dew. (Prov. 3:19-20)

Father, I desire that those also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory, which you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. John 17:24

Until I find a place for the Lord, A dwelling place for the Mighty One of Jacob.” Let’s go into His dwelling place; Let’s worship at His footstool. Arise, Lord, to Your resting place, You and the ark of Your strength. ¶For the Lord has chosen Zion; He has desired it as His dwelling place. “This is My resting place forever; Here I will sit enthroned, for I have desired it.
Psalms 132:5‭, ‬7‭-‬8‭, ‬13‭-‬14 NIV

If you have a problem with where God explicitly states that He rests over and over and over again, then take it up with the Bible. He always rests up on the throne.

And in case you didn't notice, all thrones are of temples.

‭Isaiah 6:1
[1] In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lofty; and the hem of his robe filled the temple.

‭1 Kings 22:19 NRSV‬
[19] Then Micaiah said, “Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, with all the host of heaven standing beside him to the right and to the left of him.

That's what all these stories in the Bible are saying. He's enthroned in a temple. That's where God rests.

And that's what Genesis is initiating. When God first rests on day 7. It's the beginning of God's reign, Jeremiah 26:1 and 27:1.

It's a central theme throughout the entire old testament. I suspect that many YECs don't read their Bibles, quite frankly.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I use the Bible to understand the Bible. I'm not going to quote Genesis day 7 with God resting because that's the passage in question. Hence why I shared a dozen other passages that show that every time God rests, God does so in a temple, on His throne.

Which is why I asked for the definition of the word omnipresent. When has God not been on His throne?

 

[Platte]

. And light travels at a set speed and physical matter cannot go faster than that. (There's no way to know if there are any limits in the spirit world.) In any event, any object we see that is more than 7500 (LXX chronology) light-years away had to exist before creation. (Or God had to initiate photons from space several millennia ago that would appear to be from more distant places…..That, at the very least, restricts the 6 days of creation specifically to the earth, a long time after "In the beginning".

We do not know what the speed of light is

 

[Platte]

Bible never says that creation was 6000 years ago. Also, no generally recognized Christian creed states that the world was created 6000 years ago.

Therefore, nobody needs to get over it or to even deal with it. Its a non-existent issue built upon multiple textual speculations.

The Bible does say it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

It has everything to do with a temple. That's why over and over and over again, the Bible states that heaven and earth, God's creation, are His throne and footstool.

And Jesus’ enemies? Are they going to be His temple? They’re going to be His footstool. You’re taking the word footstool out of context after I’ve already explained what the metaphor means. The footstool metaphor has absolutely zero, nothing, nada to do with God’s temple. It’s a metaphor for those who are subjugated to His authority. The earth is subjugated to His authority. Christ’s enemies are subjugated to His authority. The earth is not a resting place for His feet in His temple and His enemies are not a resting place for His feet in His temple either. Are Christ’s enemies going to be in His temple in heaven being used as an ottoman? How is it that even after I’ve pointed this out you still refuse to grasp the concept of the metaphorical meaning of footstool?

 

[BNR32FAN]

It's not logical to believe that the entire universe was created for man. Man will never see or be able to utilize most of it for at least millions of years. By that time it will be a much different universe. The earth was created for man, and we were created to be caretakers of the earth, though we have mostly screwed that up due to 6000+ years of sin. The best hope for exploration is possibly to expand to another planet or moon somewhere in the solar system in a few decades or centuries.

I’m not aware of any passage that says that the universe was made for man. Although it has been useful for navigation. But it would certainly be cool if we can explore it in the afterlife.

 

[Platte]

No, we dont know that:

1. Bible never says that
2. No universally accepted Christian creed says that
3. Its built upon the speculation that the genealogies are complete and not telescoped
4. Its built upon the speculation that the genealogies are supernaturally inspired and preserved to the letter and only in the Massoretic text
5. Its built upon the speculation that the genealogies are literal and not symbolic
6. Its built upon the speculation that the years are the same years we use today
7. And frequently, its also married to the speculation that Adam was literally the first human and literally just days after the universe was created
8. It completely contradicts the scientific worldview

There is no example of people in the Bible counting ages in genealogies to get the "age of the universe" and no instruction to do so.

There is not much debate that Adam was created 6k years ago or using those same genealogies to determine when Moses, Abraham, Noah is dated. Assuming the genealogies are complete and accurate (if you want that qualifier added) then the Bible tells us Creation was 6k years ago. That timeline is supported by recorded History

 

[Platte]

There is no example of people in the Bible counting ages in genealogies to get the "age of the universe" and no instruction to do so.

There are examples of people using those genealogies. Regardless of the reason for using them if they are using them then the level of confidence of them is real

 

[BNR32FAN]

It also says a day is a thousand years.

Actually it says a thousand years are AS a day and a day is AS a thousand years to God. You’re removing the word AS and LIKE from those verses. This has to do with God’s perception of time not actual time and it’s pretty much a loose analogy because to be more accurate God exists in all time simultaneously. Technically according to the definition of omnipresent God was already in heaven with everyone who will be saved even before creation.

 

[Platte]

My personal answer to this question, which I usually never reveal is rather simple. We'll never really know the correct answer to this unless we can find someone to ask that was actually there at the moment that it first existed. Any other answer is just a shot in the dark at a target that is 542.34 million miles away.

The target audience for the Bible wasn’t God. It was us. A day is 24 hours to you and me. Confirmed twice by God. “An evening and a morning” and a 24 hour day set aside by God as he compared to his day of rest.

 

[Job 33:6]

Which is why I asked for the definition of the word omnipresent. When has God not been on His throne?

And I gave examples in response. God walking in the Garden. God wrestling with Jacob. God appearing to Abraham with visitors. God showing Moses his backside. The Tower of Babel when God goes down to confuse the tongues of people.

‭Micah 1:2-3 NRSV‬
[2] Hear, you peoples, all of you; listen, O earth, and all that is in it; and let the Lord God be a witness against you, the Lord from his holy temple. [3] For lo, the Lord is coming out of his place, and will come down and tread upon the high places of the earth.

God leaves His temple and moves without His throne attached to His body on several occasions.

 

[BNR32FAN]

And I gave examples in response. God walking in the Garden. God wrestling with Jacob. God appearing to Abraham with visitors. God showing Moses his backside. The Tower of Babel when God goes down to confuse the tongues of people.

None of those were God The Father. No one has ever seen The Father. No one has ascended except He who has descended, the Son of Man.

 

[Job 33:6]

And I gave examples in response. God walking in the Garden. God wrestling with Jacob. God appearing to Abraham with visitors. God showing Moses his backside. The Tower of Babel when God goes down to confuse the tongues of people.

‭Micah 1:2-3 NRSV‬
[2] Hear, you peoples, all of you; listen, O earth, and all that is in it; and let the Lord God be a witness against you, the Lord from his holy temple. [3] For lo, the Lord is coming out of his place, and will come down and tread upon the high places of the earth.

God leaves His temple and moves without His throne attached to His body on several occasions.

And before you go calling all of this metaphorical, the point is that, God explicitly states time and time and time again, that the place where He rests, is enthroned in His temple. And that's true everywhere his resting place is described. Over and over and over again.

So, if you can't accept that about Genesis, day 7, then you have a problem with what the Bible says.

 

[Job 33:6]

None of those were God The Father. No one has ever seen The Father. No one has ascended except He who has descended, the Son of Man.

Yahwey walking in the garden and descending at the tower of Babel wasn't the father? What Bible are you reading?

 

[Job 33:6]

Yahwey walking in the garden and descending at the tower of Babel wasn't the father? What Bible are you reading?

‭Genesis 3 explicitly says that it is "Yahwey" walking in the garden.

Check your Hebrew

Edit:
@BNR32FAN

 

[Ace777]

interestingly enough we do have camels early on in Genesis

Some say the third Hebrew letter, gimel (ג), is a stylized image of a camel's head, neck, and front legs. This can represent trade and transportation. Today we have Jet planes as our mode of transportation in the modern world or in this moment of time.

According to science, human civilization is a lot older than 6,000 BCE.

Civilization can mean a lot of different things. According to Bishop Ussher Adam and Eve were created 6000 years ago. He says Oct 29 4004 BC based on the equinox of that year.

Though if Adam lived 12,000 years ago

According to Science mankind goes back hundreds of millions of years. The concept of sex, male and female goes back a lot further than that. Jesus in His discussion on marriage talks
about how Adam and Eve were created male and female. We are told that God has a plan and a purpose in this. WE are told that a man and women, husband and wife is a type of the marriage between the Bride and Jesus.
The marriage between a husband and wife is often considered a symbol of the spiritual union between Christ and believers.

Gerold Schroeder is the only person who can get science to line up with the Bible. This was something I had problems for a very long time. AT least 20 years until I read what Schroeder has to say about this.

Gerald Schroeder - Articles - Age of the Universe

There are lots of other issues. Ultimately, the Bible just isn't a science textbook

There is no conflict between science and the Bible. Also the Bible does not conflict with itself. Science confirms the Bible and the Bible confirms Science so that they are able to work together in harmony even if people want to deny that.

 

[Ace777]

Genesis 3 explicitly says that it is "Yahwey" walking in the garden.

יְהוָ֧ה Yah-weh Genesis 3:8 uses both names together We do not see Yah-weh until Genesis chapter two. אֱלֹהִ֔ים (e·lo·him,) This is the name we see in Genesis chapter one. John 1 explains 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.… Beginning here is a reference to Genesis chapter two.

 

[Ace777]

1. Bible never says that

Genealogies in the Bible serve as fascinating threads that connect generations, revealing intricate relationships and historical context. Let’s explore some key aspects:

1. Biblical Genealogies:
   • The book of Genesis provides several genealogies, tracing the descendants of Adam and Eve. These genealogies highlight the lineal male descent to Abraham, including the age at which each patriarch fathered his named son and the subsequent years they lived.
   • Notably, Genesis 5 presents the genealogy from Adam to Noah, while chapter 10 records the male descendants of Noah in the Table of Nations.
2. Genealogy of Jesus:
   • The New Testament offers two accounts of Jesus’ genealogy: one in the Gospel of Matthew and another in the Gospel of Luke.
   • Matthew’s genealogy starts with Abraham, emphasizing Jesus’ connection to the Jewish lineage. In contrast, Luke’s account begins with Adam, emphasizing Jesus’ universal significance as the Savior for all humanity1.
   • Interestingly, the lists are identical between Abraham and David but diverge significantly afterward. Matthew traces twenty-seven generations from David to Joseph, while Luke lists forty-two, with minimal overlap between names. The discrepancy even extends to Joseph’s father: Matthew identifies him as Jacob, while Luke refers to him as Heli1.
3. Interpretations and Speculations:
   • Various theories attempt to explain the differences in these genealogies. Some suggest that Matthew follows Joseph’s lineage, while Luke traces his legal lineage through his biological uncle via Levirate marriage1.
   • It’s essential to recognize that genealogies serve multiple purposes, including showing relations, inheritance, and priesthood power. They also demonstrate God’s consistency throughout time, connecting significant figures like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Noah, and Jesus2.
4. Scientific Worldview:
   • While genealogies provide valuable historical context, they exist within a theological framework. Literal interpretations and symbolic meanings coexist, and reconciling them with scientific perspectives can be complex.
   • Ultimately, genealogies invite us to explore our shared human heritage and the unfolding story of redemption across generations.

Remember that these genealogies offer more than mere lists of names—they reveal God’s providence, human frailty, and the grand narrative of salvation.