How Old Is The Earth

[BNR32FAN]

Every time God rests in the Bible, it's always on the throne and in His place of dwelling (a temple). Psalm 132, Isaiah 66:1-2, 2 chronicles 6:41, Ezekiel 43:4-7. Etc.

So when you read Genesis and God rests on the 7th day, it's because He is beginning His reign, enthroned as king. See Jeremiah 26:1 and 27:1 for construct form of "in the beginning". These are earthly reflections of what God does in Genesis 1:1.

And that's how it is in the Bible. Solomons temple, the temple of Ezekiel, the tabernacle etc. they all contain reference to God's throne and footstool, the temple, Gods resting place and dwelling.

Can you show me any verse that says that God was ever not on His throne or was not in His temple? Can you please explain the definition of the word omnipresent to me?

 

[trophy33]

Here we go with the mysticism interpretations where people try to make connections to hidden meanings

Its not mysticism. Mysticism is something totally different. You probably meant symbolism.

The meanings are not hidden to the original readers. They are only hidden to us, because we live in a totally different environment. Without the proper education in the ancient culture we do not see the signs in the text.

 

[Job 33:6]

Can you show me any verse that says that God was ever not on His throne or was not in His temple? Can you please explain the definition of the word omnipresent to me?

This is a misunderstanding of the topic. But yes, there are places where God is not resting on His throne, such as when He is walking around in the garden of Eden.

The point is that, God is depicted as a King throughout the entire Old Testament. And He is specifically described as resting enthroned on numerous occasions. That's what Gods rest is, it is on the throne, in command. And Heaven is his throne, earth is his foot stall, all these things his hands hath made, Isaiah 66:1-2, creation of Genesis, is paralleled with His principal temple. Creation reflects and is His temple.

And all temples in the old testament, are inaugurated. And more specifically, they are inaugurated in 7-days as noted in the above passages. And once that inauguration is complete, God takes up the throne. And God is not on the temple throne prior to the temples construction and inauguration.

And if you're familiar with 1 kings and 2 Chronicles, you should know this. Solomon builds the temple in 7 years, completed in the 7th month, with a 7 day feast, and inaugurated the temple in 7 days. God then enters the temple and takes up the throne. If you recall the passages with the doors slamming and lightening etc. Gods glory fills the temple. And God rests.

So, when we read Genesis, its the same thing. Gods temple, its constructed and inaugurated. God then rests. And this happens in 7 days, just like other temples in the Bible.

And that's it. It has nothing to do with the age of the earth or 21st century science.

 

[Job 33:6]

This is a misunderstanding of the topic. But yes, there are places where God is not resting on His throne, such as when He is walking around in the garden of Eden.

The point is that, God is depicted as a King throughout the entire Old Testament. And He is specifically described as resting enthroned on numerous occasions. That's what Gods rest is, it is on the throne, in command. And Heaven is his throne, earth is his foot stall, all these things his hands hath made, Isaiah 66:1-2, creation of Genesis, is paralleled with His principal temple. Creation reflects and is His temple.

And all temples in the old testament, are inaugurated. And more specifically, they are inaugurated in 7-days as noted in the above passages. And once that inauguration is complete, God takes up the throne. And God is not on the temple throne prior to the temples construction and inauguration.

And if you're familiar with 1 kings and 2 Chronicles, you should know this. Solomon builds the temple in 7 years, completed in the 7th month, with a 7 day feast, and inaugurated the temple in 7 days. God then enters the temple and takes up the throne. If you recall the passages with the doors slamming and lightening etc. Gods glory fills the temple. And God rests.

So, when we read Genesis, its the same thing. Gods temple, its constructed and inaugurated. God then rests. And this happens in 7 days, just like other temples in the Bible.

And that's it. It has nothing to do with the age of the earth or 21st century science.

And I'll also add that, not only is God often described as enthroned, Isaiah 6 for example, or 1 kings 22, Job 1 and Job 2, Psalm 82, Psalm 89, Psalm 132, Isaiah 66:1-2 etc.

But God also, in many of these instances, has a council with him, much like earthly kings have their own councils.

This is a central theme in the old testament, and trying to turn it into a lesson on astronomy or geology really is just a misunderstanding of the text.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Its not mysticism. Mysticism is something totally different. You probably meant symbolism.

The meanings are not hidden to the original readers. They are only hidden to us, because we live in a totally different environment. Without the proper education in the ancient culture we do not see the signs in the text.

Mysticism-belief characterized by self-delusion or dreamy confusion of thought, especially when based on the assumption of occult qualities or mysterious agencies:

The prophecies of Jesus were completely misunderstood by the Jews. Ambiguous passages and prophecies have been used throughout the scriptures and misinterpreted since the very beginning of the OT as well as the NT.

 

[trophy33]

Mysticism-belief characterized by self-delusion or dreamy confusion of thought, especially when based on the assumption of occult qualities or mysterious agencies:

Totally unrelated to understanding the ancient cultures.

If you met an ancient Mesopotamian person and played the game of associations, you would say "7 days!" and he would say "temple!". We do not have these cultural associations today, thats why without understanding it, we may read the text "as it is" and arrive to completely wrong conclusions what the text is about (inserting our modern, scientific associations into it).

The prophecies of Jesus were completely misunderstood by the Jews. Ambiguous passages and prophecies have been used throughout the scriptures and misinterpreted since the very beginning of the OT as well as the NT.

This is too vague, you would need to be specific and explain what it has to do with creation or the age of the Earth.

 

[Job 33:6]

Here we go with the mysticism interpretations where people try to make connections to hidden meanings that aren’t actually there in the scriptures. I don’t buy into this type of nonsense. Genesis 1, Genesis 2, and Exodus 20:11 don’t mention anything about God’s temple, they mention the creation of things that didn’t exist previously. Are you going to say that God didn’t create the earth? Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:11 says that He created it in 6 days. Genesis 2:1-3 says on the 7th day He rested from all that he created and made. Created means ex nihilo, made means ex materia. So not only did He rest from what He made out of existing matter but He also rested from what He created from nothing.

It's not mysticism at all, its cultural context. You say that Genesis 1 and 2 don't mention anything about Gods temple. Have you not read the Bible?

‭Isaiah 66:1-2 NRSV‬
[1] Thus says the Lord: Heaven is my throne and the earth is my footstool; what is the [temple] that you would build for me, and what is my resting place? [2] All these things my hand has made, and so all these things are mine, says the Lord.


By wisdom a temple is built,
and by understanding it is established;
by knowledge the rooms are filled
with all precious and pleasant riches. (Prov. 24:3-4)
The LORD by wisdom founded the earth;
by understanding he established the heavens;
by his knowledge the deeps broke open,
and the clouds drop down the dew. (Prov. 3:19-20)

The Lord is in His holy temple; the Lord’s throne is in heaven; His eyes see, His eyelids test the sons of mankind.
Psalms 11:4

“But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Even heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain you, much less this house [temple] that I have built!
Hear the plea of your servant and of your people Israel when they pray toward this place; O hear in heaven your dwelling place; hear and forgive.
1 King‬ ‭8:27‬

Or, regarding Exodus, just look at the Tabernacle. Have you not noticed how it has two cherubim guarding the ark of the covenant (just like cherubim of holy space in the garden), it has the cast laver of cast bronze, Job 37:18, the walls are decorated with lush vegetation imitating the divine space of the garden, etc.

This is common knowledge. Just because you aren't familiar with the old testament doesn't mean you can just call the whole thing "mysticism".

 

[Grip Docility]

If a thousand years for us is but a day for God, in God's eyes this should make the earth 7 + 6 = 13 days old, am I right ?

My personal answer to this question, which I usually never reveal is rather simple. We'll never really know the correct answer to this unless we can find someone to ask that was actually there at the moment that it first existed. Any other answer is just a shot in the dark at a target that is 542.34 million miles away.

 

[Job 33:6]

It's not mysticism at all, its cultural context. You say that Genesis 1 and 2 don't mention anything about Gods temple. Have you not read the Bible?

‭Isaiah 66:1-2 NRSV‬
[1] Thus says the Lord: Heaven is my throne and the earth is my footstool; what is the [temple] that you would build for me, and what is my resting place? [2] All these things my hand has made, and so all these things are mine, says the Lord.


By wisdom a temple is built,
and by understanding it is established;
by knowledge the rooms are filled
with all precious and pleasant riches. (Prov. 24:3-4)
The LORD by wisdom founded the earth;
by understanding he established the heavens;
by his knowledge the deeps broke open,
and the clouds drop down the dew. (Prov. 3:19-20)

The Lord is in His holy temple; the Lord’s throne is in heaven; His eyes see, His eyelids test the sons of mankind.
Psalms 11:4

“But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Even heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain you, much less this house [temple] that I have built!
Hear the plea of your servant and of your people Israel when they pray toward this place; O hear in heaven your dwelling place; hear and forgive.
1 King‬ ‭8:27‬

Or, regarding Exodus, just look at the Tabernacle. Have you not noticed how it has two cherubim guarding the ark of the covenant (just like cherubim of holy space in the garden), it has the cast laver of cast bronze, Job 37:18, the walls are decorated with lush vegetation imitating the divine space of the garden, etc.

This is common knowledge. Just because you aren't familiar with the old testament doesn't mean you can just call the whole thing "mysticism".

And in Hebrew, the term used in genesis for "Create" is "bara", and bara is always ex materia in the old testament. Of the dozens of times its used, its never in ex nihilo terms. Humanity was Bara in Genesis 1, but we know that Adam was made of dust and eve of a rib bone, that's not ex nihilo. The psalmist asks God to bara a clean heart in him, the psalmist isn't asking of heart surgery. The Isrealites bara sign posts etc.

Earth isn't created until day 3 of Genesis. God doesn't create the earth, say that its good in verse 1, then go back and create earth again in day 3. He isn't creating earth multiple times. God created with the spoken word, and He didn't begin speaking until Genesis 1:3 "And God said". God didn't say anything in verse 1. Every single creation day begins with "And God said". And that doesn't happen until God begins by saying "let there be light". That's the first thing God created, light. This is additionally verified in Psalm 104, Gods light is paralleled with a garment, and this is described prior to the heavens and the Earth's creation.

YECs just don't know how to read the Bible, its really that simple.

104 Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
Day 1 (Light) to 2 (the heavens):
2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
Day 2 continued:
3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
Day 3:
5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

The text goes on to speak of God filling the earth with animals. Days 1-3 address tohu, Days 4-6 address bohu.

And this isn't mysticism, its just how the Bible was written.

 

[Ace777]

8. It completely contradicts the scientific worldview

Dispensationalism where a day is 1,000 years, perfectly fits the scientific world view.

Around 12,000 years ago, during the Neolithic Revolution, humans transitioned from nomadic hunter-gatherer lifestyles to permanent settlements and farming. This pivotal shift forever changed how we live, eat, and interact, paving the way for modern civilization1. Agriculture emerged independently in various places, including Mesopotamia, China, South America, and sub-Saharan Africa2. So, our journey as food producers began in diverse corners of the world!

The key word in the Bible is to till or cultivate the ground.

Genesis 2 15Then the LORD God took the man and placed him in the Garden of Eden to cultivate and keep it.

Before Adam Genesis 2-5 "there was no man to cultivate the ground."

Science has put a lot of work into understanding when, where and how civilization began.

You 6,000 year date comes fron Science according Copilot.

Civilization began in several regions around the world. Here are some of the earliest cradles of civilization: Mesopotamia (around 4000 BCE): Located in what is now Iraq, Kuwait, and Syria, Mesopotamia is considered the birthplace of civilization. It was characterized by city-states, writing systems, and advanced agriculture12.

Science says 6,000 BCE Bishop Ussher says 6,004 BCE Oct 28 4004 BCE to be exact. This was the beginning of the age or era we live in. Man went from a food gather to a food producer.

 

[Ace777]

eve of a rib bone,

Eve came from Adam's side.

 

[Grip Docility]

Eve came from Adam's side. There is no mention of rib or bone. That is speculation.

In no way am I disagreeing with you. I just wanted to share that scripture makes provision for both Spiritual understandings being valid and important to conceptualize.

The Rib concept suggests that the very "Zoe" was contained in the Rib of Adam and gives Life to Eve... which is a Spiritual teaching of how the Holy Spirit within us, Gives life to us, despite our dead works.

The Drawing from Adam's side concept suggests that God drew all of creation from Himself, through the Son.

Both have validity and importance, in my opinion. To me, personally, it's less of an argument and more of people in a pitch dark room describing the proverbial elephant from what they feel with their hands at the moment.

 

[Job 33:6]

Eve came from Adam's side.

Traditionally it's been understood as rib. We can't say for sure what the specific meaning was. Either way, the point is that Eve is not created ex nihilo.

 

[Job 33:6]

Dispensationalism where a day is 1,000 years, perfectly fits the scientific world view.

Around 12,000 years ago, during the Neolithic Revolution, humans transitioned from nomadic hunter-gatherer lifestyles to permanent settlements and farming. This pivotal shift forever changed how we live, eat, and interact, paving the way for modern civilization1. Agriculture emerged independently in various places, including Mesopotamia, China, South America, and sub-Saharan Africa2. So, our journey as food producers began in diverse corners of the world!

The key word in the Bible is to till or cultivate the ground.

Genesis 2 15Then the LORD God took the man and placed him in the Garden of Eden to cultivate and keep it.

Before Adam Genesis 2-5 "there was no man to cultivate the ground."

Science has put a lot of work into understanding when, where and how civilization began.

You 6,000 year date comes fron Science according Copilot.

Civilization began in several regions around the world. Here are some of the earliest cradles of civilization: Mesopotamia (around 4000 BCE): Located in what is now Iraq, Kuwait, and Syria, Mesopotamia is considered the birthplace of civilization. It was characterized by city-states, writing systems, and advanced agriculture12.

Science says 6,000 BCE Bishop Ussher says 6,004 BCE Oct 28 4004 BCE to be exact. This was the beginning of the age or era we live in. Man went from a food gather to a food producer.

According to science, human civilization is a lot older than 6,000 BCE. Not sure where you learned your misinformation. Unless you're suggesting that Adam wasn't the first person.

Also, Bishop Usher spoke in terms of the age of creation, not just the beginning of agriculture. Humanity also isn't mentioned until day 6, so that wouldn't line up with 12,000 years either.

 

[trophy33]

Dispensationalism where a day is 1,000 years, perfectly fits the scientific world view.

Around 12,000 years ago, during the Neolithic Revolution, humans transitioned from nomadic hunter-gatherer lifestyles to permanent settlements and farming. This pivotal shift forever changed how we live, eat, and interact, paving the way for modern civilization1. Agriculture emerged independently in various places, including Mesopotamia, China, South America, and sub-Saharan Africa2. So, our journey as food producers began in diverse corners of the world!

1. You are saying that 12,000 years ago agriculture emerged in China, South America and Mesopotamia.
2. You are saying it fits perfectly with "day is 1,000 years"
3. You go with the literal reading of the Massoretic text genealogies, which places the creation of Adam to be 6,000 years ago.

No, these claims actually contradict each other. If you are postulating that the universe was created 12,000 years ago, there could not already be civilizations on different continents - in China, Mesopotamia, Africa and even South America in that time.

 

[Ace777]

1. You are saying that 12,000 years ago agriculture emerged in China, South America and Mesopotamia.

That is a cut and paste from AI.

 

[Ace777]

Not sure where you learned your misinformation

That was a cut and paste from AI

 

[trophy33]

That is a cut and paste from AI.

Well, it was in your post, so you are kind of responsible for the claims your post makes, regardless of your source.

 

[Job 33:6]

That is a cut and paste from AI.

There are a lot of issues with your approach. Your approach seems to suggest that Adam existed on the 1st day. As opposed to the 6th day or later.

The geneologies of course suggest that Adam lived to something like 950 years old? I think it's fair to say that there isn't any scientific support for this.

The Sumerians kings list, similar to early geneologies, also have individuals living to incredibly long ages. Some kings lived 30,000 or 40,000+ years of age. So we also have some contextual issues with viewing Genesis geneologies in a scientific sense.

And we comfortably have cultures engaging in plant cultivation both well before and well after 12,000 years ago.

Observations from wiki:
Wild grains were collected and eaten from at least 104,000 years ago.[2] However, domestication did not occur until much later. The earliest evidence of small-scale cultivation of edible grasses is from around 21,000 BC with the Ohalo II people on the shores of the Sea of Galilee.[3] By around 9500 BC, the eight Neolithic founder crops – emmer wheat, einkorn wheat, hulled barley, peas, lentils, bitter vetch, chickpeas, and flax – were cultivated in the Levant.[4]

Some of the earliest known domestications were of animals. Domestic pigs had multiple centres of origin in Eurasia, including Europe, East Asia and Southwest Asia,[36] where wild boar were first domesticated about 10,500 years ago.[37] Sheep were domesticated in Mesopotamia between 11,000 BC and 9000 BC.[38] Cattle were domesticated from the wild aurochs in the areas of modern Turkey and India around 8500 BC.[39] Camels were domesticated relatively late, perhaps around 3000 BC.[40]

Interestingly enough we do have camels early on in Genesis. Genesis 12:16 and 24:10 with Abraham. Though if Adam lived 12,000 years ago, that would put Abrahams life at about 10,000 years ago if we assumed the geneologies to be scientifically accurate (not 3,000BC).

There are lots of other issues. Ultimately, the Bible just isn't a science textbook.

 

[BNR32FAN]

It's not mysticism at all, its cultural context. You say that Genesis 1 and 2 don't mention anything about Gods temple. Have you not read the Bible?

‭Isaiah 66:1-2 NRSV‬
[1] Thus says the Lord: Heaven is my throne and the earth is my footstool; what is the [temple] that you would build for me, and what is my resting place? [2] All these things my hand has made, and so all these things are mine, says the Lord.


By wisdom a temple is built,
and by understanding it is established;
by knowledge the rooms are filled
with all precious and pleasant riches. (Prov. 24:3-4)
The LORD by wisdom founded the earth;
by understanding he established the heavens;
by his knowledge the deeps broke open,
and the clouds drop down the dew. (Prov. 3:19-20)

The Lord is in His holy temple; the Lord’s throne is in heaven; His eyes see, His eyelids test the sons of mankind.
Psalms 11:4

“But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Even heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain you, much less this house [temple] that I have built!
Hear the plea of your servant and of your people Israel when they pray toward this place; O hear in heaven your dwelling place; hear and forgive.
1 King‬ ‭8:27‬

Or, regarding Exodus, just look at the Tabernacle. Have you not noticed how it has two cherubim guarding the ark of the covenant (just like cherubim of holy space in the garden), it has the cast laver of cast bronze, Job 37:18, the walls are decorated with lush vegetation imitating the divine space of the garden, etc.

This is common knowledge. Just because you aren't familiar with the old testament doesn't mean you can just call the whole thing "mysticism".

You haven’t quoted anything from Genesis 1 or Genesis 2. You’re quoting proverbial passages that mention the word earth that have nothing to do with creation. The earth being God’s footstool is a metaphor. Are Jesus’ enemies going to be His temple when His enemies are made His footstool? The word footstool is a metaphor for those who are under subjugation to God. The earth being His footstool simply means that the earth is in subjugation to His authority. It has nothing AT ALL to do with His temple.