How Old Is The Earth

[BNR32FAN]

I hear in prison they can make alcohol petty quick. Still people miss the point about how Heavenly wine is different than the wine here on earth.

Nobody on earth knows what Heavenly wine is like. The point is that if it’s not fermented it will spoil in 2 days which doesn’t make any sense to plant entire vineyards just to have grape juice for 2 days. They had to ferment it in order to preserve it. Jesus was celebrating the Passover at the Last Supper which is in April. Grape harvest ends in October so the wine was without a doubt fermented.

 

[Ace777]

Nobody on earth knows what Heavenly wine is like.

I know what it is to worship God and NOTHING is better than to worship God.
For us that is a little bit of a taste of what Heaven will be like.

Matthew 26:29 I tell you that I will never again take the produce of the vine till that day when I shall drink the new wine with you in my Father's Kingdom."

Jesus talks about NEW WINE in the Father's Kingdom. The 1,000-year reign of Christ is also known as the Kingdom Age or the Millennium. It's a period of time described in the Bible that occurs after the tribulation and before the Great White Throne Judgment. During this time, Jesus Christ will rule as king over all nations and Israel, and God will show his power through signs in the heavens and on Earth.

At the wedding in John 2:10 the word is "good" wine. In Matthew 26:29 they refer to this as the new wine that we will drink in the Kingdom. Jesus prays Thy kingdom come on earth as it is in Heaven. So there will be new wine in the Kingdom age and in Heaven.

There is a connection between the wedding and there is a connection between the wine.

 

[Platte]

Jesus talks about NEW WINE in the Father's Kingdom. The 1,000-year reign of Christ is also known as the Kingdom Age or the Millennium.

I’m surprised it’s not recorded as the 1-day reign of Christ. Would be a lot clearer.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I know what it is to worship God and NOTHING is better than to worship God.
For us that is a little bit of a taste of what Heaven will be like.

Matthew 26:29 I tell you that I will never again take the produce of the vine till that day when I shall drink the new wine with you in my Father's Kingdom."

Jesus talks about NEW WINE in the Father's Kingdom. The 1,000-year reign of Christ is also known as the Kingdom Age or the Millennium. It's a period of time described in the Bible that occurs after the tribulation and before the Great White Throne Judgment. During this time, Jesus Christ will rule as king over all nations and Israel, and God will show his power through signs in the heavens and on Earth.

At the wedding in John 2:10 the word is "good" wine. In Matthew 26:29 they refer to this as the new wine that we will drink in the Kingdom. Jesus prays Thy kingdom come on earth as it is in Heaven. So there will be new wine in the Kingdom age and in Heaven.

There is a connection between the wedding and there is a connection between the wine.

No this is typical prophetic speculation based on ambiguous passages. You’ve made no actual connection between the wine and worship.

 

[tdidymas]

Can matter be made from nothing by natural process? Can an entire planet able to sustain life be made in 6 days by natural process? Can life be made from inanimate material by natural process? Many speculate that it can but nobody has ever actually observed it. And where is the verse that says that Jesus turning water to wine was a miracle? I’m not familiar with that verse. If it isn’t in the scriptures does that mean that it wasn’t a miracle?

John 2:11 "This beginning of His signs Jesus did in Cana of Galilee, and revealed His glory; and His disciples believed in Him."
"Signs and wonders" = miracles. You just need to get more familiar with scripture.

It appears to me that you're trying to exaggerate in order to try and throw me off. I think it's fairly obvious that God originated the energy to produce the "big bang," if that's how it was done, and that He holds everything together by His mighty power. The physical laws of the universe were established by Him - I think I can pretty much agree on that.

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth" - "and the Earth was..." means that the Earth existed before the "6 days" began. So then, the Earth could have been here for 13B years before the "6 day" creation. What do you think?

 

[Ace777]

No this is typical prophetic speculation based on ambiguous passages.

This is a testimony. Why don't you share your testimony as to what God is doing in your life.

 

[tdidymas]

It was God Himself who spoke directly to the people when He gave the 10 commandments, not Moses.

“Then God spoke all these words, saying,”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20‬:‭1‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

After God had spoken the 10 commandments the people asked Moses to relay the rest of God’s commandments to them because they were afraid of hearing God speak to them.

“All the people perceived the thunder and the lightning flashes and the sound of the trumpet and the mountain smoking; and when the people saw it, they trembled and stood at a distance. Then they said to Moses, “Speak to us yourself and we will listen; but let not God speak to us, or we will die.””
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20‬:‭18‬-‭19‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So Exodus 20:11 had nothing to do with Egyptian cosmology since it was spoken by God himself. Furthermore Exodus 20:11 is a parallel verse to Genesis 2:1-3.

“Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

"spoke all these words" means from v. 2-17, not v. 18-21 or v. 1. Are you suggesting otherwise?

Perhaps you didn't read my previous posts, so you have to ask the same question. The answer is called "accommodation." Many times God accommodates man's limited understanding and knowledge, and speaks to man according to what man understands. The "6 days" of Ex. 20:11 can easily be explained by accommodation. Ancient near-east cosmology was so ingrained in peoples' thinking that God chose to accommodate (if indeed that's what He did - I'm simply saying it can be explained by accommodation).

Likewise, in the dark ages, the idea of a flat earth was so ingrained in peoples' thinking, they thought it was science or even God's word, to the extent that they exiled, imprisoned, or otherwise persecuted any dissenters. Science and theory of origin is man's realm, and God leaves it to man to exercise some wisdom in determining reality. I think it's your burden of proof to show that God communicated anything scientific to man. So if we observe that reality differs with anything in the Bible interpreted by religious people, then the wise thing to do is to oppose the "traditional" interpretation of scripture and believe what is observed in the physical universe.

 

[Ace777]

Because I said Moses had a Hebrew education

Moses had an Egypt education. Best you could get in his day. Abraham also had the best education you could get in Ur at the time. Both the Egyptians and Chaldeans were pretty advanced. But you had to be able to separate truth from error. Moses and Abraham were both able to do that.

 

[trophy33]

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth" - "and the Earth was..." means that the Earth existed before the "6 days" began.

Its the traditional interpretation. However:
a) it can be translated as "When God began to create the heavens and the Earth..."
b) and the word for the Earth can also mean the underworld, sheol
c) or it can be seen as a summary of the creation account that follows

 

[tdidymas]

This doesn’t make any sense because man was the last thing created so no one was around to witness the creation process. Have you even read Exodus 20? What does verse 1 say?

“Then God spoke all these words, saying,”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20‬:‭1‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

What does this have to do with the price of tea in China? Your response isn't conducive to what you're responding to.

 

[tdidymas]

You saying his parents told him is speculation. Yes its almost certain he knew but we don't know how he knew.

Then how do you speculate it? Anything you say can be debated, and we are pretty far down a rabbit trail.

 

[BNR32FAN]

"spoke all these words" means from v. 2-17, not v. 18-21 or v. 1. Are you suggesting otherwise?

Perhaps you didn't read my previous posts, so you have to ask the same question. The answer is called "accommodation." Many times God accommodates man's limited understanding and knowledge, and speaks to man according to what man understands. The "6 days" of Ex. 20:11 can easily be explained by accommodation. Ancient near-east cosmology was so ingrained in peoples' thinking that God chose to accommodate (if indeed that's what He did - I'm simply saying it can be explained by accommodation).

Likewise, in the dark ages, the idea of a flat earth was so ingrained in peoples' thinking, they thought it was science or even God's word, to the extent that they exiled, imprisoned, or otherwise persecuted any dissenters. Science and theory of origin is man's realm, and God leaves it to man to exercise some wisdom in determining reality. I think it's your burden of proof to show that God communicated anything scientific to man. So if we observe that reality differs with anything in the Bible interpreted by religious people, then the wise thing to do is to oppose the "traditional" interpretation of scripture and believe what is observed in the physical universe.

God didn’t have to accommodate man’s “limited understanding” because man already understood how to understand the concept of billions.

“They blessed Rebekah and said to her, “May you, our sister, Become thousands of ten thousands, And may your descendants possess The gate of those who hate them.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭24‬:‭60‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

This is from Genesis written by Moses. So apparently there was no problem with comprehending billions.

 

[BNR32FAN]

What does this have to do with the price of tea in China? Your response isn't conducive to what you're responding to.

Nobody was around to witness the creation process. You’re saying that Moses got the creation narrative handed down through his ancestors when there wasn’t a single man alive to witness the creation process.

 

[Ace777]

"When God began to create the heavens and the Earth..."

Nothing has been added from the beginning of time. In the first twinkle of an eye everything existed.

 

[Platte]

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth" - "and the Earth was..." means that the Earth existed before the "6 days" began. So then, the Earth could have been here for 13B years before the "6 day" creation. What do you think?

Doesn’t Exodus 20:11 answer that:
“For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day…”

 

[BNR32FAN]

Doesn’t Exodus 20:11 answer that:
“For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day…”

Yes as well as Genesis 2:1-3

“Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

John 2:11 "This beginning of His signs Jesus did in Cana of Galilee, and revealed His glory; and His disciples believed in Him."
"Signs and wonders" = miracles. You just need to get more familiar with scripture.

It appears to me that you're trying to exaggerate in order to try and throw me off. I think it's fairly obvious that God originated the energy to produce the "big bang," if that's how it was done, and that He holds everything together by His mighty power. The physical laws of the universe were established by Him - I think I can pretty much agree on that.

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth" - "and the Earth was..." means that the Earth existed before the "6 days" began. So then, the Earth could have been here for 13B years before the "6 day" creation. What do you think?

I’m not trying to exaggerate, I simply said I’m not aware of any verse that specifically stated that Jesus performed a miracle when He turned water to wine. I’m at work so I didn’t really have an opportunity to search for it, which is why I asked if there was such a verse and you did provide one. So I’m not arguing against it. And in the Big Bang theory matter existed before the Big Bang, in the biblical creation process the universe was created ex nihilo, from nothing in 6 days. Even if the earth did exist before the 6 days of creation, which Exodus 20:11 says it didn’t but even if it did Genesis 1 describes it as formless and void. So you have no life, no plants, no animals, and no ecosystem, and all of that happened in 6 days? According to science that’s just as impossible as the entire universe being created in 6 days. So your argument that the earth existed before the 6 day creation process still doesn’t work because there was no ecosystem without plants. So now you still have the problem of no food available for all the animals to eat unless the plants started bearing fruit in 3 days. Not to mention the fact that on day one there’s no sun yet so the planet would be a frozen block of ice. That’s if you’re actually going by “natural occurrence” with no miracles being used.

 

[BNR32FAN]

This is a testimony. Why don't you share your testimony as to what God is doing in your life.

Calling the wine at the Last Supper worship is not a testimony, it’s not even remotely related to a testimony. A testimony is based on personal experience not speculation. Were you at the Last Supper? Because if you were then you could say it is a testimony because you were actually there. You can’t testify to anything that you haven’t personally witnessed or that is not specifically stated in the scriptures.

 

[Ace777]

Calling the wine at the Last Supper worship is not a testimony,

I said: NOTHING is better than to worship God. THAT IS MY TESTIMONY.

New wine holds significant prophetic meaning in the Bible, particularly associated with the Holy Spirit. Here are some insights:

1. Symbol of the Holy Spirit: In the New Testament, Jesus refers to the Holy Spirit as “new wine” (Luke 5:37-39). This metaphor emphasizes the transformative power of the Holy Spirit, bringing spiritual renewal and deepening our relationship with God1.
2. Renewed Love and Intimacy: The Song of Songs speaks of “love like wine.” In this season, the Spirit is wooing us, inviting us into deeper intimacy with God2.
3. Joy and Harvest: New wine represents joy, celebration, and miracles. It’s a taste of Heaven—a move of the Spirit reserved for this hour3.

So, embrace the new wine—the fresh work of the Holy Spirit—and allow it to overflow in your life!

 

[Ace777]

I’m not trying to exaggerate, I simply said I’m not aware of any verse that specifically stated that Jesus performed a miracle when He turned water to wine.

This is all very basic entry level type stuff.

Turning water into wine holds profound symbolic meanings, especially within the context of Jesus’s first miracle at the wedding in Cana (John 2:1-12). Let’s explore its significance:

1. Abundance and Blessing: Jesus transformed water into the finest wine at the wedding feast. This act points to the abundance and blessing that come from our relationship with Him. It’s a sneak preview of the ultimate wedding celebration—the messianic wedding supper of the Lamb (Revelation 19:7–8).
2. Prophetic Fulfillment: The wedding in Cana metaphorically fulfills Old Testament scriptures that speak of God’s people (the proverbial bride) and the Bridegroom to come—Jesus Himself. It symbolizes the type of relationship He desires with us.
3. Third Day Significance: The miracle occurred on the third day, a significant day in Jewish wedding traditions. The third day represents sanctification and abundance. Jewish weddings often take place on this day, under the stars, symbolizing fruitfulness and descendants like the stars of the sky (Genesis 22:17).

In essence, Jesus takes the ordinary (water) and turns it into something extraordinary (wine), reflecting His desire for us to live out of His overflow and experience spiritual renewal.

Most translation calls this a "sign" but the KJV uses the word "miracle".

John 2:11 "This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him."