How Old Is The Earth

[Jipsah]

My guess to the whole "day before the sun" topic is that, in the morning, the sun rises. But before the sun rises, there is light.

It's still sunlight, mate. Starlight doesn't really signify.

So from the basic position of an observer, light exists before the sun.

Where do you reckon it comes from?

And we all know this. Every morning the sky gets brighter before we see the actual sun.
And that's how you get "day" or a day before the sun.

And the sky gets lighter nearer sunrise because...?

 

[Job 33:6]

It's still sunlight, mate. Starlight doesn't really signify.

Where do you reckon it comes from?

And the sky gets lighter nearer sunrise because...?

It is still sunlight. However, in the ancient world, light did not need a material source, that is the sun.

And to ancient people it did not need to come from a star or the sun.

Egyptians spoke of similar things, where light also existed before the sun. Which, seemingly was just describing the light visible at the horizon before the sun actually had risen.

It might be world reminding everyone on this forum that the Bible isn't a science textbook.

 

[Platte]

So all of the scientific community across several disciplines are all in on a vast conspiracy to make us believe the earth is 4.5 billion years old? What do they stand to gain by lying to us about this?

I’m not sure how accurate that is. Probably a reasonable estimate. I’m just saying the earth doesn’t look old to me. Fresh grass and nice green trees next to me. I do know the earth is a perfect environment for mankind. I’m sure the entire science community would agree. Everything is perfect to support life here. Evolution and the scientific community would say that it’s all by chance. I believe God created this perfect world that as far as we know could only be created like this for man to live here and thrive the way we do. I do know this is exactly what we needed so God creating it this way only makes sense. How else could he have created the universe in 6 days differently than the perfect that we have?
If the whole purpose of creating the universe was for man - and to establish his family with those who choose salvation - then what we have is exactly what it should be

 

[Platte]

Betcher boots I am. Took the shots, worked every day (well, about 40 hours a weeks worth, anyway,one of those alleged "front line heroes"), traveled as much as the lockdowns allowed, and insofar as the "law" allowed, did as I pleased. I let others hide with pride. Y tu?

So you believed Science when He said if you get the covid shot you won’t get covid?

Looks a lot more than 6000 years old, doesn't it? Because it is.

Yes Looks a lot older than 6000 years. I’m sure Adam looked a lot older than 2 day when he was created. All the plants and animals too. Trees fully grown at creation! That wouldn’t look 1 day.

I'll bite, why do you reckon He created the earth?

The "recording" part was peroblematic. Writing is a late development, innit?

Writing was a late development? That doesn’t make sense but it’s an educated guess. Another could be that Creation was 6000 years ago and there was no one to write history. There are thousands of languges actively in use today. And many more that are not used anymore. Doesn’t appear that language

 

[Platte]

I don't think his claim is odd at all. The Bible description wraps up the creation of the earth along with millions of biological species, countless geological formations and astronomical references in a single short chapter and people think it's possible to be 100% literal? First off, nobody would have understood it for thousands of years if it were, and if it was that detailed only one in a million people would ever consider reading it.

The Bible says creation took 6 days.

Furthermore, God did not create the universe as we see it. It has changed since then, as even if it was 6 literal days, 6000+ years have passed since that time. Constellations have changed slightly, the North Star wouldn't have pointed north.

The universe that we see is how God created it. I think you understand what I mean. I concede there are some slight difference.

And other than scientific methods, we can prove some of this with some writings in Egypt or ancient Babylon. God knew we were going to figure these things out. (Despite taking the initiative to slow mankind's progress at the Tower of Babel) It's not that difficult to interpolate things in reverse, even without technology. (Stonehenge is evidence of that) I think it's a fully reasonable point of view that God would not want to present the environment in such a way as to confuse man as they advanced in technology. Even if we are analyzing it wrong, then God knew that we would do so.

Now if you want to be literal, Genesis 2:4 says made the earth in one day. (At least in the KJV and derivatives) Regarding Adam, that is a bad argument. How do you know he was 6 feet tall? Is that the model of perfection? Why not 5'5" or 7'2"? How do you know that Adam and Eve were not created as juveniles? Reproductive biology starts long before people are fully grown. Many cultures have had certain ceremonies or tasks of manhood around the age of 13 and sometimes even arranged marriages. There was no real danger in the garden of Eden, so it's not like they needed to be adults to survive.

My argument is the same however you picture Adam at creation whether he was 13 or 30. 4 foot or 6 foot. I’m sure you would agree he looked a lot older than 1 day

The Bible doesn't specify how long they were in the garden before they sinned, and Seth wasn't born for 130 years anyway, so that's plenty of time to grow up. Furthermore they kind of acted kind of immature after they were confronted by God anyway if you take the story literally.

How about other uses of day?

Genesis 2:17 - "...in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."
Genesis 11:32 - "The days of Terah were 205 years."

I think many Christians make some unwarranted assumptions on the uses of the word day, especially allowing for translations.

Yeah but you a little difficult to make an assumption any different when an evening and a morning is added before saying day. And exodus 31:17 seals it.

 

[Strong in Him]

So you believed Science when He said if you get the covid shot you won’t get covid?

It's never been the case that if you have the injection you won't get Covid. It's that the symptoms won't be as bad - heavy cold, rather than gasping for breath; day or so in bed rather than being in ITU on a ventilator.
Covid is still around, but these days it's more like having a heavy cold, and for some, it's not even that bad. All because people have been immunized.

I've had 4 Covid jabs and not had Covid.
Or if I have, I wasn't aware of it and didn't test for it.

 

[tdidymas]

Let’s focus on Adam for a sec. He was created as a man….so he was created old. Wheres the debate about God deceiving us with Adam. He had hair….it takes years to grow hair. The bones in his legs were long - takes years for bones to fully grow. Why did God create Adam old?

There is zero indication that Adam was created old, so that's your speculation. He did not have grey hair; he did not have scars wherein it appeared that he had long years of working in the garden getting scratched and injured sometimes. There is no indication whatsoever that God created Adam looking like he had existed for decades or centuries.

It is reasonable that God created Adam as a young man, say 20 years old or younger, maybe even 12 years old, although he was really less than one day old when he came alive, becoming "a living soul," because it says that God formed him from the dirt, not from an egg. God did not make him a zygote or embryo. So then, after the U became stable, God created man 6k years ago. Don't assume (as many do) that if someone says the U existed for B of yrs that they are evolutionists; that would be a wrong prejudice.

But comparing Adam created as a man with the U created as if it were B of yrs old is a case of "apples v. oranges." There is no indication that Adam appeared to have existed for a lifetime already when he was one day old, whereas the U actually does appear to have existed for B of years, given the evidence we see in the cosmos.

So then, how one interprets Gen 1 depends on some assumptions. If the apostle Paul could write that what is observed in creation shows the invisible attributes of God, then certainly a U which appears to be B of yrs old shows the eternal nature of God, would it not? Then, Gen. 1 would not be so literal as you think it is. Certainly "day" in that context means literal day, but it does not necessitate a meaning of a literal day from a scientific standpoint. "Day" in scripture has a host of meanings, depending on its context, even though it's the same word with the same basic definition.

The way Gen. 1 is structured is similar to ancient near east cosmology. So the point of it is not to give a science textbook on how God did it and when, but rather to tell all the pagan nations and polytheists of that time that there is one true God who created everything. Since this is the point of Gen. 1, then to try and make Gen. 1 a modern science textbook saying how God literally made everything would be a mistake.

If God made the U as it is instantaneously 6k yrs ago, then why does it appear to have existed for B of yrs with all the evidences we see indicating B of yrs of history? Adam had no history when he was created, since there is no indication of it in scripture or evidence elsewhere. But observing the U shows B of yrs of history. I think that if you want to claim a 6 literal day creation, you have the burden to prove your theory, which I don't think you can, because no one has been able to prove that yet from a modern scientific standpoint.

 

[Platte]

There is zero indication that Adam was created old,

I use the term old relative to a 1 day old baby. Whether Adam was 12 or 20…..relative to a 1 day old baby do you agree Adam was created old? With the appearance of age a lot older that you’d expect from a 1 day old baby?

 

[Platte]

So then, how one interprets Gen 1 depends on some assumptions. If the apostle Paul could write that what is observed in creation shows the invisible attributes of God, then

I’m sorry I must have missed it…what author, prophet, teacher in the Bible tells us not to take Genesis literally? That’s a pretty important thing to understand. Especially considering God told Moses that it was 6 literally days. Exodus 31:17

 

[Platte]

think that if you want to claim a 6 literal day creation, you have the burden to prove your theory, which I don't think you can, because no one has been able to prove that yet from a modern scientific standpoint.

There is no scientific burden of proof to show that Hitler was leader of Germany during WW2. History support quite nicely that Hitler was leader of Germany. And History supports quite nicely that there is no recorded History older than 6000 years. That’s not a coincidence.

 

[Ace777]

Then is it 13 days old?

That is when the ice age ended and the age we are in began. Sometimes the Bible says the end of time or the end of the world when it is just the end of one age or era and the beginning of another.

 

[Ace777]

And History supports quite nicely that there is no recorded History older than 6000 years.

WE have artifacts going back hundreds of thousands of years.

 

[Ace777]

The Earth was created approximately 6000 years ago not billions of years ago.

What was here before the Earth?

 

[BPPLEE]

So you believed Science when He said if you get the covid shot you won’t get covid?

Yes Looks a lot older than 6000 years. I’m sure Adam looked a lot older than 2 day when he was created. All the plants and animals too. Trees fully grown at creation! That wouldn’t look 1 day.


Writing was a late development? That doesn’t make sense but it’s an educated guess. Another could be that Creation was 6000 years ago and there was no one to write history. There are thousands of languges actively in use today. And many more that are not used anymore. Doesn’t appear that language

Have you heard of the Omphalos theory?

 

[Ace777]

Yes Looks a lot older than 6000 years. I’m sure Adam looked a lot older than 2 day when he was created. All the plants and animals too. Trees fully grown at creation! That wouldn’t look 1 day.

That is not how God does thinks. Look at Exodus 23 29 "I will not drive them out before you in a single year; otherwise the land would become desolate and wild animals would multiply against you. 30 Little by little I will drive them out ahead of you, until you become fruitful and possess the land. 31 And I will establish your borders from the Red Sea to the Sea of the Philistines, and from the desert to the Euphrates. For I will deliver the inhabitants into your hand, and you will drive them out before you."

God does things slow and gradual. Not in an instant. We do not go from beginning to end in an instant.

 

[BPPLEE]

That is not how God does thinks. Look at Exodus 23 29 "I will not drive them out before you in a single year; otherwise the land would become desolate and wild animals would multiply against you. 30 Little by little I will drive them out ahead of you, until you become fruitful and possess the land. 31 And I will establish your borders from the Red Sea to the Sea of the Philistines, and from the desert to the Euphrates. For I will deliver the inhabitants into your hand, and you will drive them out before you."

God does things slow and gradual. Not in an instant. We do not go from beginning to end in an instant.

“Let there be light” and there was light.

 

[Ace777]

“Let there be light” and there was light.

Sunrise begins the day but in the bible the day begins at sunset.
Sounds like a black hole to me.

 

[Jipsah]

So you believed Science when He said if you get the covid shot you won’t get covid?

I believed it within reason. I knew how vaccines worked, and that they aren't magic potions. Depending on the patient, and the state of the virus, and a variety of otjher factors, a vaccine may almost always work reliably, it may sometimes work partially, or it may not work at all. The Covid vaccines appear to have been on the good end of that scale, either preventing serious infection altogether, or causing the effects of infection to be very minor. In my case, and my wife's, we were both infected after vaccination, but in both our cases the symptoms were roughly akin to a bad cold. . We were never in any danger. A far cry from the ghastly symptoms reported by so many pre-vax victimes.

I gather you were afraid that the vax would alter your DNA and turn you into newt or something right?

Yes Looks a lot older than 6000 years.

Just God having a laugh, right?

I’m sure Adam looked a lot older than 2 day when he was created. All the plants and animals too. Trees fully grown at creation! That wouldn’t look 1 day.

Just like it doesn't say in Genesis.

Writing was a late development?

Yep. First written languages show up around 3000 BC.

That doesn’t make sense

Really? How so?

Another could be that Creation was 6000 years ago and there was no one to write history.

Even if the univese was created in 6000 BC, writing took a few thousand more years after that.

 

[Ace777]

Yes Looks a lot older than 6000 years. I’m sure Adam looked a lot older than 2 day when he was created. All the plants and animals too. Trees fully grown at creation! That wouldn’t look 1 day.

God gives us Science so we can better understand the Bible and creation. Everyone has to work it all out in their own head. If that is what they want to believe then they have all the freedom to believe what they want.

 

[Platte]

my case, and my wife's, we were both infected after vaccination

lol. That is too funny. Nice vaccine. I remember when Science got on TV and said you wouldn’t if you got vaccinated. You are still drinking that kool aid. Are you fully boosted up? Do you know how many shots that would require? You are a tool!