How Old Is The Earth

[Ace777]

Any other bits of similar brilliance to offer?

I have heart failure and lung failure and I survived. Of course my chance of survival was less than 1% but here I am still alive.. My wife says I am talking and writing this post so that means I am still alive.

 

[tdidymas]

No you don’t believe what it says. It says that God created the heavens, the earth, the seas, and everything in them in 6 days. You absolutely don’t believe that otherwise we wouldn’t be having this conversation. It actually says 6 days, but you don’t believe it means 6 days so you don’t believe what it actually says. You can try to conjure up whatever excuse you want but the fact is that the exact words that are written in the scriptures is 6 days, not 6 years or 6,000 years or 4.5 billion years, that’s NOT what is written in the passage.

The whole argument hinges on the real meaning of "6 days." You assume it's 6 literal days as we know it, that's your assumption and interpretation. You have no room in your mind that the expression could be symbolic of something else.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Apparently by this response you don't believe in accommodation that I clearly explained. But let me ask you this: in Gen. 22:12 God said to Abraham "now I know that you fear God" - so did God know this beforehand, or not? Did God lie, because God knows everything, "the end from the beginning"? (Isa. 46:10) Or, is God accommodating Abraham's limited knowledge? Did God lie by using this expression, instead of telling Abraham the truth that He was using this event as a prophecy of the sacrifice of Christ?

God said that because that was the precise moment in time when Abraham proved his commitment to God. Now I know means that at this point in time you have proven your loyalty.

What makes you think that Moses and the Israelites were incapable of understanding billions of years? I’ve already proven to you by the scriptures that they were capable of comprehending and conveying such large numbers. He didn’t even have to give a specific number. He could’ve said that He created the earth over hundreds of thousands of years. He gave a specific number for a reason.

 

[tdidymas]

No be specific, what dating method do you want to talk about regarding the age of the earth? I like to pick one specific subject and discuss it thoroughly instead of clouding the conversation with numerous different topics that typically result in a bunch of loose ends.

The topic you need to prove is how we can be observing supernovas up to 10B light years away, when you claim the U is only 6k yrs old. Someone is lying. Either the cosmologists are lying about astronomical observations, or your interpretation of "6 days" is a lie, or else God lied about how old the U is. By the term "lying," I'm using your terminology. Someone is certainly deceived, because there is something dreadfully wrong with this picture. What I'm questioning is the traditional interpretation of Gen. 1. I think YEC'rs are wrong, and thus their interpretation of Gen. 1 is wrong. But I expect you will continue to evade the question as you have in the past, because you can't answer it. No one has been able to answer it as of yet, not AIG or anyone else for that matter. I seriously doubt you can.

 

[Ace777]

The whole argument hinges on the real meaning of "6 days." You assume it's 6 literal days as we know it,

The whole "argument" has to do with what God DID those six days. Genesis 2:1 says He finished His work. God declares the end from the beginning. Just like Jesus said on the cross: It is finished. He finished His work on that day. A work that He told Eve He would do.

 

[tdidymas]

God said that because that was the precise moment in time when Abraham proved his commitment to God. Now I know means that at this point in time you have proven your loyalty.

What makes you think that Moses and the Israelites were incapable of understanding billions of years? I’ve already proven to you by the scriptures that they were capable of comprehending and conveying such large numbers. He didn’t even have to give a specific number. He could’ve said that He created the earth over hundreds of thousands of years. He gave a specific number for a reason.

Your argument is weak. You're merely changing what the scripture actually says according to your interpretation. "Now I know" is an accommodation to Abraham's limited viewpoint as a human being. Abraham did not necessarily believe that God was all-knowing, since he had no scripture telling him so. Not even Adam knew that God was all-knowing, since he hid from Him (isn't that obvious?) - and God also accommodated him by asking "where are you" - as if God didn't already know where he was. The scripture is full of accommodation.

"Ten thousand times ten thousand" (Dan. 7:10) is the largest number in the OT scriptures. Assuming that Abraham could comprehend that number, it's 100M, not billions. And it likely is a very inaccurate approximation, like saying "a zillion" in modern language.

 

[tdidymas]

The whole "argument" has to do with what God DID those six days. Genesis 2:1 says He finished His work. God declares the end from the beginning. Just like Jesus said on the cross: It is finished. He finished His work on that day. A work that He told Eve He would do.

You missed the point, you should read past posts. The question regarding the OP is how old the earth is, and the point is, that the stand someone takes about it is how they interpret the term "day," whether it be 24 hours or symbolic or analogic.

 

[trophy33]

When we are told a certain man lived so many years and had these children, then that is what happened.

We have already established in Gospels that this is not necessarily the case. Inspiration means neither dictation nor perfect preservation.

I am not sure why people immediately forget what they found comparing gospels, when they read for example Genesis.

I think this phenomena has a specific name. People, who know about for example physics and read some physics article in newspapers and see the errors journalists make and then they turn the page and read another article about health and suddenly accept it as certain, because its not their expertise. Forgetting what they learnt about the skills of journalists seconds ago.

 

[trophy33]

I define it as the Word of God in that The Bible conveys the exact message that He wanted conveyed, that it presents the complete Truth that serves His purpose. That God controlled the distribution of it.

Its not much different from "it means what God wants it to mean". It can mean anything from mythology to scientific dictation, from a perfect preservation to the preservation of few main points. Its too vague to be useful.

The King James Version or any other translation relative to the same sources is The Bible that spread His Word and has been the source of Christianity for centuries. That was not by accident but by Gods design. It’s God direct involvement that has made it by far the most widely distributed book in world history.

Where did God say that the Bible edition which will be the most distributed up to the point of the 21st century is the perfect, infallible Bible?

Does your claim mean that Christians until the English KJV edition did not have "the Word of God"? The apostolic "Bible" (the concept of a Bible did not exist at all back then) was very different from the KJV.

 

[trophy33]

I am not sure what sort of answer you expect me to give to a question like "How did God inspire the bible?" Perhaps somebody else who like me believes the bible is God's inspired Word might be able to answer. As to what aspects/truths, I say all it contains.

OK, I will try to give you an easier question. Which of these texts is "the Word of God", inspired in every word:

Yet the earth was invisible and unformed

Now the earth was formless and empty

The earth was without form and void

And the earth was a formless and desolate emptiness

And the earth was waste and void

The Earth was chaos and empty

But the earth was unsightly and unfurnished

The earth was barren, with no form of life

The earth was invisible and unprepared

Now the land was yet unseen and unprepared

ἡ δὲ γῆ ἦν ἀόρατος καὶ ἀκατασκεύαστος

terra autem erat inanis et vacua

Also, it will be useful if you decide for us whether the author meant our planet (which they had no word for) or a dry land - continents.

Also, are all biblical places inspired in the same way? Some Jewish historical details in the book of Ruth in the same way as the Messianic prophecies, for example?

 

[Platte]

Its not much different from "it means what God wants it to mean". It can mean anything from mythology to scientific dictation, from a perfect preservation to the preservation of few main points. Its too vague to be useful.


Where did God say that the Bible edition which will be the most distributed up to the point of the 21st century is the perfect, infallible Bible?

Does your claim mean that Christians until the English KJV edition did not have "the Word of God"? The apostolic "Bible" (the concept of a Bible did not exist at all back then) was very different from the KJV.

It appears to me that all your discussions and commentary is directed at the King James Bible or other translation using the same source text that it uses. Am I missing something?

Do you believe the KJV Bible is the Word of God? If you don’t just say no.

 

[Platte]

It does.

There's lots of research and historical records verifying it.

The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth, He who calls for the waters of the sea And pours them out on the face of the earth, The Lord is His name.
Amos‬ ‭9:6‬ ‭NASB

And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
Genesis 1:6

God made the dome, and separated the waters which were below the dome from the waters which were above the dome; and it was so. God called the dome heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
Genesis 1:7‭-‬8

And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,
Genesis 1:14

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.
Genesis 7:11

the fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained,
Genesis 8:2

And God said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the dome of the sky.”
Genesis 1:20

“You shall not make for yourself a divine image with any form that is in the heavens above or that is in the earth below or that is in the water below the earth.
Exodus 20:4

and they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there was something like a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness.
Exodus 24:10

Thick clouds enwrap him, so that he does not see, and he walks on the dome of heaven.’
Job 22:14

He has described a circle on the face of the water between light and darkness. “The pillars of heaven tremble, and they are astounded at his rebuke.
Job 26:10‭-‬11

Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?
Job 37:18

Hast thou with him spread out the sky, Which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?
Job 37:18

can you join him in spreading out the skies, hard as a mirror of cast bronze?
Job 37:18


13 that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? 14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal; its features stand out like those of a garment.
Job‬ ‭38:13‭-‬14‬ ‭

So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
Joshua 10:13

‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭1:5‬ ‭
The sun rises, and the sun goes down; to its place it hurries, and there it rises again.

Yet in all the world their line goes out, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has pitched a tent for the sun,
Psalms 19:4

The tree that you saw, which grew great and strong, so that its top reached to heaven and was visible to the end of the whole earth,
Daniel 4:20

The Lord sits enthroned over the flood; the Lord sits enthroned as king forever.
Psalms 29:10

Yet he commanded the skies above and opened the doors of heaven,
Psalm 78:23

you set the beams of your chambers on the waters, you make the clouds your chariot, you ride on the wings of the wind,
Psalms 104:3

He causes the clouds to arise from the end of the earth, makes lightning bolts accompany the rain, and brings the wind out of his storehouses.
Psalms 135:7

To him who spread out the earth above the waters, for his loyal love endures forever.
Psalms 136:6

Praise him, highest heavens, and waters above the heavens. Let them praise the name of Yahweh, because he commanded and they were created. And he put them in place *forever and ever*, by a decree he gave that will not pass away.
Psalms 148:4‭-‬6

Praise Yah. Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty firmament.
Psalms 150:1


Whoever flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit; and whoever climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.
Isaiah‬ ‭24:18‬ ‭

and all the host of heaven shall rot. And the skies shall roll up like a scroll, and all their host shall wither like the withering of a leaf from a vine, or like the withering from a fig tree.
Isaiah 34:4

It is he who sits above the *circle* of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in;
Isaiah 40:22

‭Ezekiel 10:1 NASB
[1] Then I looked, and behold, in the expanse that was over the heads of the cherubim something like a sapphire stone, in appearance resembling a throne, appeared above them.

Over the heads of the angels there was something like a dome, shining like crystal, spread out above their heads.
Ezekiel 1:22

And above the dome over their heads there was something like a throne, in appearance like sapphire stone; and seated above the likeness of a throne was something that seemed like a human form.
Ezekiel 1:26

And I looked, and look! On the dome that was above the head of the cherubim something like a stone of sapphire, and like the appearance of the shape of a throne it appeared above them.
Ezekiel 10:1

He made strong the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth;
Proverbs 8:28-‬29

The sky vanished like a scroll rolling itself up, and every mountain and island was why removed from its place.
Revelation 6:14

After this I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven! And the first voice, which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.”
Revelation 4:1

“Where were you at my laying the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you possess understanding. Who determined its measurement? Yes, you do know. Or who stretched the measuring line upon it? On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone,
Job 38:4‭-‬6

The earth and all its inhabitants are shaking; I steady its columns. Selah
Psalms 75:3

For the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, And he hath set the world upon them.
1 Samuel 2:

Do you believe the Bible is the Word of God? Like it says and conveys the exact message He desired

 

[truthpls]

If a thousand years for us is but a day for God, in God's eyes this should make the earth 7 + 6 = 13 days old, am I right ?

No. What earth time is like to God does not matter. What matters in the creation of all things is the times given in Genesis and that is mornings and evenings that equal a day. Not years. Just as a watch in Jesus' day was a certain time, and just as Jesus was dead for 3 days and nights. We have Jesus Himself spelling it out for us. "Jesus answered, “Are there not twelve hours in the day?" Jesus IS God. So, for God, when on earth a day is a day!
Plants did not last a thousand years before God made the sun. Adam and Eve were created on day six, and Adam was created first. Adam did not wait a thousand years for Eve to be created. Adam named all animal kinds the day he was created. It did not take a thousand years to name the animals. Adam lived 930 years, that was not years of 360 days that were a thousand years each! Otherwise Adam would be alive today. Etc

 

[Ace777]

the point is, that the stand someone takes about it is how they interpret the term "day," whether it be 24 hours or symbolic or analogic.

There are different words for "day". Usually they have more letters in them. Each letter has meaning so the more letters the more the word "day" means. In Genesis chapter one there is no question the word day means a 24 hour day. It is later on in the Bible looking back on Genesis one that the more complex word for day can mean age or era of time.

We need to take into consideration that God declares the end from the beginning. Genesis chapter one says in the beginning. Genesis chapter two says "finished" both in reference to the Heaven and the Earth. This is why GAP says there is a Gap of time between when God declares something to be and when His work is finished.

At carvery Jesus said: "It is finished" thousands of years before I was born or before He began a "finished" work in me and in my life.

 

[Strong in Him]

It also says a day is a thousand years. (Psalms 90:4, 2 Peter 3:8)

It says that, with God, as day is AS a thousand years and a thousand years is AS a day. "As" and "like" are similes - not an exact science or literal description.
God is outside time. We say something is a long time; with God, it's far less. Revelation says "behold I am coming soon." That "soon" has, for us, been nearly 2000 years and counting. Every generation interprets that "soon" to be within their lifetime.

The Bible does not say 1 day IS 1000 years.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Did God dictate to Moses all the historical narratives of Gen. through Deu? Did God dictate all the historical narratives to the writers of Joshua through Esther? Did God dictate to Solomon all the proverbs, Ecc. and Song of Sol.? Your adherence to the idea that God dictated all that Moses wrote is both unreasonable and ridiculous.

Nobody but God Himself can possibly testify to what happened before the first man was created. You keep making all these excuses for not actually believing in what the Bible says without even thinking about the implications of what you’re saying. As I’ve pointed out numerous times Exodus 20 begins with the words “Then God spoke all these words”. God didn’t have to dictate the historical events that Moses knew about but nobody could’ve possibly known about the 6 day creation because NOBODY WAS CREATED YET. And the fact that the passage begins with the words “Then The Lord Spoke” indicates that GOD ABSOLUTELY DICTATED WHAT FOLLOWED.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You missed the point, you should read past posts. The question regarding the OP is how old the earth is, and the point is, that the stand someone takes about it is how they interpret the term "day," whether it be 24 hours or symbolic or analogic.

I bet if your boss didn’t pay you after you worked all week and you showed him in writing where you were promised to be paid weekly you wouldn’t interpret that time frame any other way. I bet you wouldn’t accept a lame excuse like if your boss was to say “that’s not what it says, your just interpreting it incorrectly”.

 

[David Lamb]

At carvery Jesus said: "It is finished" thousands of years before I was born or before He began a "finished" work in me and in my life.

I think you meant "at Calvary" - I can't imagine Jesus going to a carvery!

 

[Ace777]

as day is AS a thousand years and a thousand years is AS a day.

It was exactly 4,000 years from the birth of Adam to the birth of Jesus. October 29 4004 BCE This is the shortest day of the year. It was exactly 4,000 years from when Adam sinned and Jesus went to Calvary to pay for that sin. (I have to ask, is the husband willing to die for his wife the way Jesus was willing to die for His Bride?)

Books have been written about the scriptures that talk about the third day. This is the same as the 7th day which the Bible talks about extensively because the seventh day is the sabbath. God rested on the seventh day.

In the same way there is good reason to believe a day in Genesis represents 1,000 years. 13,000 years ago is when the ice age ended. There was a massive extinction and the age or era we live in now began. We can see the effect of the glaciers and we can see the world that was here before the glaciers. I can see this and have taken photos when they are building an expressway or working on a bridge. WE can see all the layers in the rock and what was here before the Glaciers. The hard hats, the guys with a PhD in geology tell me that the river is in the same place as before only it was wider back before the glaciers compared to now. (I was a construction worker, so I am very comfortable to walk onto a construction site and talk to people) They have a wealth of information.

We know that saber tooth tigers and wholly mammoths died at this time. Even the mommonths have been found still frozen and their lunch is still in their belly. So examine the evidence and decide for yourself if they died during Noah's flood. Perhaps we will come to the conclusion that the evidence we have shows us that a day is 1,000 years. That does not make it any less than the real day in the week that God created Adam and the Garden of Eden. I have nothing against YEC. I can explain that also.

Frozen in time: 10 prehistoric animals found trapped in ice

These 10 frozen prehistoric creatures from around are stunningly preserved and provide tantalizing clues about their lives — from what they ate to how they died.

www.livescience.com

1. • Hosea 6:1-2 hints at a pattern: after two days, the Lord revives Israel; on the third day, He restores her forever.
   • Applying this, Jesus has been “gone” for two millennia, awaiting His return 1.

In summary, while the Bible doesn’t explicitly call it a “Sabbath,” the idea of a 1,000-year rest—a time of peace and harmony—fits within the broader context of God’s plan 1

 

[BNR32FAN]

Apparently by this response you don't believe in accommodation that I clearly explained. But let me ask you this: in Gen. 22:12 God said to Abraham "now I know that you fear God" - so did God know this beforehand, or not? Did God lie, because God knows everything, "the end from the beginning"? (Isa. 46:10) Or, is God accommodating Abraham's limited knowledge? Did God lie by using this expression, instead of telling Abraham the truth that He was using this event as a prophecy of the sacrifice of Christ?

Like I said before, your kind of crass literalism causes a lot of problems and controversies that aren't necessary.

Did God dictate to Moses all the historical narratives of Gen. through Deu? Did God dictate all the historical narratives to the writers of Joshua through Esther? Did God dictate to Solomon all the proverbs, Ecc. and Song of Sol.? Your adherence to the idea that God dictated all that Moses wrote is both unreasonable and ridiculous.

You're not paying attention to what I wrote. You're exaggerating and accusing. Therefore I am not going to reiterate what I wrote earlier.

Really because here you are again just two posts after this one that I’m replying to now saying the same exact thing.

I think you can't understand what you're reading, according to your response here. Your strategy is to vilify what you're reading instead of understanding it. 4000 years ago, men observed the cosmos and tried to figure out how it got here, exactly like they do today. But of course, you're not really interested in that, are you?

Now correct me if I’m wrong here but again in the post above you’re saying that the 6 day creation account in the Bible came from man, NOT from God Himself. You’re saying it was man’s best guess at the time, Not God specifically speaking to Moses telling him exactly what took place.

This idea of your’s that the 6 day creation account is the result of men trying to figure out what took place during the creation process is derived completely from your imagination. There’s nothing to support it. It’s just an idea you conjured up to try to reconcile scripture with science. We’ve both been faced with that same dilemma of, you chose to conclude that science is right, I chose to conclude that the Bible is right because I’ve done some research on the dating methods and it’s based on assumptions and incomplete data. The dating methods are predictions based on the limited information we have. It’s based on the idea that if X and Y are true then the earth is X amount of years old. But there’s no guarantee that X and Y are actually true.