How Old Is The Earth

[Job 33:6]

Moses was inspired? That’s how he wrote the account of creation we are talking about? I believe that information was given to Moses directly by God. They spent quite a bit of time together talking.

Again. Inspiration is not equivalent to God taking over someone's brain and writing the Bible for them. There is a cultural context in which the Bible was written, in case you didn't know. Have you never heard of the concept of reading the Bible in its original context?

 

[Platte]

Again. Inspiration is not equivalent to God taking over someone's brain and writing the Bible for them. There is a cultural context in which the Bible was written, in case you didn't know. Have you never heard of the concept of reading the Bible in its original context?

God directly providing Moses information about Creation is not taking over his brain but it’s a lot more then Moses just being inspired by God.

Reading something in its original context is not meant to dramatically and drastically alter what they wrote. It’s to help you better understand what they wrote.

When you hear of Paul’s difficulty on the sea in his missionary journeys, understanding the context of his time is very helpful - they didn’t have engines, it was all by sails.

Knowing that Isreal was under Roman rule sure gives you a much better understanding of the context of the Gospels and the life of Jesus. It doesn’t change what was written but gives you a better understanding of what and why they wrote it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Nice evasion. The Bible calls it a miracle. But for the creation, it doesn't say whether it was miraculous or providential. That's the basis of the controversy.

Evasion? Is that what you call it when someone points out your errors? The Bible specifically says that the entire creation process took place in 6 days. If you don’t think that’s a miracle then you obviously have no idea what a miracle is.

 

[Psalm 27]

The earth is 4000 yrs old, up to Jesus

 

[BNR32FAN]

That would be old wine not new wine. A lot of churches are adamant about using new wine and not old wine for communion.

You have to look at the symbolism. At the wedding feast with Jesus will be new wine, not old wine. We have to look at what wine symbolic of. At pentecost they were accused of being drunk because of the new wine. This is why there is NOTHING better than to worship and praise God because of the new wine. So in Acts when they said these people are drunk they should have explained this but they would not have understood.

Jesus said His time had not come but His mother insisted because she knew about new wine. But Luke in 5:39 says people prefer the old wine.

There’s grape juice and there’s wine. What separates the two is whether or not it’s fermented.

 

[Job 33:6]

God directly providing Moses information about Creation is not taking over his brain but it’s a lot more then Moses just being inspired by God.

Reading something in its original context is not meant to dramatically and drastically alter what they wrote. It’s to help you better understand what they wrote.

That's not what inspiration is. There's nothing anywhere in the Bible that indicates that God shared future scientific information with Moses. On the contrary, the text describes ancient near east cosmology, not modern science. Indicating that God didn't give Moses advanced scientific knowledge.

And observing this ancient context is not altering what was written. It's acceptance of what was written.

The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth, He who calls for the waters of the sea And pours them out on the face of the earth, The Lord is His name.
Amos‬ ‭9:6‬ ‭

And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
Genesis 1:6

God made the dome, and separated the waters which were below the dome from the waters which were above the dome; and it was so. God called the dome heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
Genesis 1:7‭-‬8

And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,
Genesis 1:14

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.
Genesis 7:11

the fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained,
Genesis 8:2

And God said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the dome of the sky.”
Genesis 1:20

“You shall not make for yourself a divine image with any form that is in the heavens above or that is in the earth below or that is in the water below the earth.
Exodus 20:4

and they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there was something like a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness.
Exodus 24:10

Thick clouds enwrap him, so that he does not see, and he walks on the dome of heaven.’
Job 22:14

He has described a circle on the face of the water between light and darkness. “The pillars of heaven tremble, and they are astounded at his rebuke.
Job 26:10‭-‬11

Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?
Job 37:18

Hast thou with him spread out the sky, Which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?
Job 37:18

can you join him in spreading out the skies, hard as a mirror of cast bronze?
Job 37:18

that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? The earth takes shape like clay under a seal; its features stand out like those of a garment.
Job‬ ‭38:13‭-‬14‬ ‭

So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
Joshua 10:13

The sun rises, and the sun goes down; to its place it hurries, and there it rises again.
Ecclesiastes‬ 1:5

Yet in all the world their line goes out, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has pitched a tent for the sun,
Psalms 19:4

The tree that you saw, which grew great and strong, so that its top reached to heaven and was visible to the end of the whole earth,
Daniel 4:20

The Lord sits enthroned over the flood; the Lord sits enthroned as king forever.
Psalms 29:10

Yet he commanded the skies above and opened the doors of heaven,
Psalm 78:23

you set the beams of your chambers on the waters, you make the clouds your chariot, you ride on the wings of the wind,
Psalms 104:3

He causes the clouds to arise from the end of the earth, makes lightning bolts accompany the rain, and brings the wind out of his storehouses.
Psalms 135:7

To him who spread out the earth above the waters, for his loyal love endures forever.
Psalms 136:6

Praise him, highest heavens, and waters above the heavens. Let them praise the name of Yahweh, because he commanded and they were created. And he put them in place forever and ever, by a decree he gave that will not pass away.
Psalms 148:4‭-‬6

Praise Yah. Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty firmament.
Psalms 150:1

Whoever flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit; and whoever climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.
Isaiah‬ ‭24:18‬ ‭

and all the host of heaven shall rot. And the skies shall roll up like a scroll, and all their host shall wither like the withering of a leaf from a vine, or like the withering from a fig tree.
Isaiah 34:4

It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in;
Isaiah 40:22

Over the heads of the angels there was something like a dome, shining like crystal, spread out above their heads.
Ezekiel 1:22

And above the dome over their heads there was something like a throne, in appearance like sapphire stone; and seated above the likeness of a throne was something that seemed like a human form.
Ezekiel 1:26

And I looked, and look! On the dome that was above the head of the cherubim something like a stone of sapphire, and like the appearance of the shape of a throne it appeared above them.
Ezekiel 10:1

He made strong the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth;
Proverbs 8:28-‬29

The sky vanished like a scroll rolling itself up, and every mountain and island was why removed from its place.
Revelation 6:14

After this I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven! And the first voice, which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.”
Revelation 4:1

“Where were you at my laying the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you possess understanding. Who determined its measurement? Yes, you do know. Or who stretched the measuring line upon it? On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone,
Job 38:4‭-‬6

The earth and all its inhabitants are shaking; I steady its columns. Selah
Psalms 75:3

For the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, And he hath set the world upon them.
1 Samuel 2:8

 

[Ace777]

There’s grape juice and there’s wine. What separates the two is whether or not it’s fermented.

What is the Blood of Jesus? Old or new wine. What does Matthew 26 28 mean Matthew 26:29, Jesus says, “I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.” Does wine still ferment in the Kingdom of God?

 

[BNR32FAN]

What is the Blood of Jesus? Old or new wine. What does Matthew 26 28 mean Matthew 26:29, Jesus says, “I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.” Does wine still ferment in the Kingdom of God?

Wine ferments in 5-10 days. The reason they fermented wine was because grape juice spoils in about 2 days without preservatives and refrigeration. Harvest time for grapes in Israel is between July and October which has an average outside temperature of 93 degrees. So if they didn’t ferment the grape juice it would spoil in about 2 days maybe even faster at that temperature.

 

[tdidymas]

God is the only one I know that talked to Moses about Creation. And Jesus certainly attributes scripture to Moses. Moses was educated in the Egyptian culture not the Jewish culture

And you were there to see it? I'm still in disagreement with you. Moses also had a Hebrew education. He was told by his parents that he was Hebrew, unlike the movie. It wasn't a surprise to him. But you agree with me that he had an Egyptian education, which certainly can account for his ancient near-east cosmology.

 

[tdidymas]

I see a heart of interest in him. He will understand - it will just take some time. God has a way of revealing the truth to those who seek it. I believe he is honestly and honorable seeking it.

Are you gossiping now?

 

[tdidymas]

Evasion? Is that what you call it when someone points out your errors? The Bible specifically says that the entire creation process took place in 6 days. If you don’t think that’s a miracle then you obviously have no idea what a miracle is.

I have an idea. But do you have an idea how God works by providence, and it's not a miracle? A miracle is something done by supernatural power contrary to natural process. Like the sun standing still, parting of waters, turning water to wine, etc. These things are actually called "miracles" by the biblical writers. But creation week is not called a miracle anywhere in scripture, is it? Can you find me a chapter & verse?

 

[Ace777]

Wine ferments in 5-10 days.

I hear in prison they can make alcohol petty quick. Still people miss the point about how Heavenly wine is different than the wine here on earth.

 

[Platte]

And you were there to see it? I'm still in disagreement with you. Moses also had a Hebrew education. He was told by his parents that he was Hebrew, unlike the movie. It wasn't a surprise to him. But you agree with me that he had an Egyptian education, which certainly can account for his ancient near-east cosmology.

God spoke to Moses about the Ten Commandments which included the sabbath day and God compared it to creation (God spoke to Moses about Creation) and his 7th day of rest. I’m sure you will at least agree that God did speak to Moses like the movie.

 

[Platte]

He was told by his parents that he was Hebrew.

It’s fair to speculate that but making it a statement of fact is false presentation.

 

[tdidymas]

God spoke to Moses about the Ten Commandments which included the sabbath day and God compared it to creation (God spoke to Moses about Creation) and his 7th day of rest. I’m sure you will at least agree that God did speak to Moses like the movie.

Because I said Moses had a Hebrew education, you think I didn't mean what I said earlier that Moses quotes God whenever he says "The Lord spoke to Moses"? It looks to me like you are trying to confuse the issue, which I think means you concede to have lost the debate. You're grasping at straws.

 

[tdidymas]

It’s fair to speculate that but making it a statement of fact is false presentation.

Examine the context of scripture, there is no indication whatsoever that Moses did not know he was Hebrew. I'm getting the idea that you believe more in the movie than you do in scripture.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I have an idea. But do you have an idea how God works by providence, and it's not a miracle? A miracle is something done by supernatural power contrary to natural process. Like the sun standing still, parting of waters, turning water to wine, etc. These things are actually called "miracles" by the biblical writers. But creation week is not called a miracle anywhere in scripture, is it? Can you find me a chapter & verse?

Can matter be made from nothing by natural process? Can an entire planet able to sustain life be made in 6 days by natural process? Can life be made from inanimate material by natural process? Many speculate that it can but nobody has ever actually observed it. And where is the verse that says that Jesus turning water to wine was a miracle? I’m not familiar with that verse. If it isn’t in the scriptures does that mean that it wasn’t a miracle?

 

[BNR32FAN]

And you were there to see it? I'm still in disagreement with you. Moses also had a Hebrew education. He was told by his parents that he was Hebrew, unlike the movie. It wasn't a surprise to him. But you agree with me that he had an Egyptian education, which certainly can account for his ancient near-east cosmology.

It was God Himself who spoke directly to the people when He gave the 10 commandments, not Moses.

“Then God spoke all these words, saying,”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20‬:‭1‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

After God had spoken the 10 commandments the people asked Moses to relay the rest of God’s commandments to them because they were afraid of hearing God speak to them.

“All the people perceived the thunder and the lightning flashes and the sound of the trumpet and the mountain smoking; and when the people saw it, they trembled and stood at a distance. Then they said to Moses, “Speak to us yourself and we will listen; but let not God speak to us, or we will die.””
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20‬:‭18‬-‭19‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So Exodus 20:11 had nothing to do with Egyptian cosmology since it was spoken by God himself. Furthermore Exodus 20:11 is a parallel verse to Genesis 2:1-3.

“Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

I disagree. He learned oral tradition of the Gen. narrative from his parents who learned it from their parents, all the way back to Abraham, and back to Noah, and back to Adam. All the seed of the woman who believe pass down their theology and history to their children. The narrative of Ex. 1:1 - 2:10 was told to him by his parents (God did not dictate that to him). It is reasonable to believe his parents told him that story, and unreasonable to believe that God told him that story; it's the way I read scripture, with reason and logic. In 2:11 it says "after Moses was grown..." - this would be where Moses begins to tell his own story. God does not explain the history of mankind to every writer of scripture. That would be unreasonable and highly unlikely. Otherwise, why would God command the people to explain all this to their children and grandchildren? It's because He simply doesn't do what you're implying by "Moses was the source of oral tradition."

This doesn’t make any sense because man was the last thing created so no one was around to witness the creation process. Have you even read Exodus 20? What does verse 1 say?

“Then God spoke all these words, saying,”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20‬:‭1‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[Platte]

Examine the context of scripture, there is no indication whatsoever that Moses did not know he was Hebrew. I'm getting the idea that you believe more in the movie than you do in scripture.

You saying his parents told him is speculation. Yes its almost certain he knew but we don't know how he knew.