How easy is it to lose your salvation?

[faroukfarouk]

Romans 8.38-39

 

[Near]

Here's what I know, a person can go from loving God, to totally ignoring him and denying his Lordship through sin. Yes a person who is of the faith CAN deny Christ, and many have denied Christ, and in turn Christ denied them. In our western societies we may not notice Christ being forsaken as a result of persecution, but it does happen in other places.

2 Tim 2:12 if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;

Connect the dots, if you deny Christ, you lose your salvation.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Salvation is all of grace (Ephesians 2.8-9)

 

[TheDag]

Let's go back to 'I'm entitled to my opinion.' You can't admit to that and still say I'm not--merely because you think your way of looking at the matter is obviously correct.

That is not what I said at all. Do you care to actually read what I wrote rather than reading what you want to see? All I have said is that you have made assumptions as part of your view and therefore should not tell the other person they are wrong as you have not outlined why they are wrong. If you had not made any assumptions but instead based it on evidence and logic instead of assumption then that would be different.

 

[Albion]

That is not what I said at all. Do you care to actually read what I wrote rather than reading what you want to see?

What I don't care to do is play along with your desire to argue over nothing. The passage in question doesn't say what was claimed for it, and that's all there is to this, whether you like it or not. I might also note that this is the "Moderate Christians" forum, the "Bridge builders" forum, which was created for people who would discuss without the rancor found on certain of the other forums.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

What I don't care to do is play along with your desire to argue over nothing. The passage in question doesn't say what was claimed for it, and that's all there is to this, whether you like it or not. I might also note that this is the "Moderate Christians" forum, the "Bridge builders" forum, which was created for people who would discuss without the rancor found on certain of the other forums.

Amen to that!

In this forum, we say, "I believe this way because," not, "You should believe this way, or you're wrong."

And the "because" is optional.

 

[TheDag]

What I don't care to do is play along with your desire to argue over nothing. The passage in question doesn't say what was claimed for it, and that's all there is to this, whether you like it or not. I might also note that this is the "Moderate Christians" forum, the "Bridge builders" forum, which was created for people who would discuss without the rancor found on certain of the other forums.

Since you are having trouble comprehending this perhaps I need to use larger print to get the message across. I am not arguing over nothing. I Simply said it is easy to see how the person has arrived at the conclusion they have and your rebuttal is based on an assumption not fact.

Post #55 is where you display the very characteristics you complain about.

The passage IN YOUR OPINION does not say what it was claimed to have said. I have shown assumptions you have made in your conclusions so how can you say your are correct? You can not be certain they are wrong unless you base your view on fact instead of assumption.

 

[Albion]

Since you are having trouble comprehending this perhaps

Excuse me for interrupting, but I thought I made it clear (and so did LovebirdsFlying) that this is not a forum for picking fights with other posters or using intemperate language.

 

[ALoveDivine]

Having come out of reformed protestantism I used to hold firmly to OSAS. Then I went ahead and studied both eastern theology and the early church fathers, and then looked at scripture without my luther/calvin glasses.

My conclusion? Yes, you can lose your salvation. Or, more precisely, you can loose your relationship with God. We are being saved, it is a process, not a one-time legal decree. We come more fully into salvation as we abide in Christ. If we don't abide, we are thrown away. Which means, if we reject God and forsake the relationship we have with him we cannot expect salvation in the end.

There is a sin unto death, and from what I can tell, that sin is apostasy. Even though this sin brings spiritual death, God is always willing to forgive and restore the relationship the apostate rejected. We do in fact have free will.

I am convinced that no amount of sin, even grievous sin, can separate us from the love of God. We must consciously reject our relationship with God in order to "loose salvation".

 

[Albion]

Having come out of reformed protestantism I used to hold firmly to OSAS. Then I went ahead and studied both eastern theology and the early church fathers, and then looked at scripture without my luther/calvin glasses.

You mean you put on your Irenaeus/Cyprian glasses instead.

I am convinced that no amount of sin, even grievous sin, can separate us from the love of God. We must consciously reject our relationship with God in order to "loose salvation".

That's "lose salvation," and no amount of sin can separate us from the love or God or from salvation if it once is ours. I don't remember what Tertullian had to say about it right now, but I do remember what Jesus said, and so I conclude that those who are saved are secure.

 

[bluemarkus]

we should never focus on fear. for it is written fear not. "i fear losing my salvation". "i fear committing the unforgiveable sin". both these concepts cannot endanger you since g-d knows what he resurrects. even people who dont know jesus, merely practice newage, krishna or other religions know that we re-incarnate and those people who emulate christ now will be close to him in the resurection, whereas those who choose to stay away from him also will get their karma. g-d gives us the choice and we bring the "judgement" on our own head. judgement does not merely mean "damnation" it means you sort in everything into the shelve it naturally belongs. would you sort screws into your nailbox. no you put it where your other screws are. so also g-d puts everything where it belongs. fearing for the "unforgiveable sin" is useless. for g-d loves everyone even those who ignore his laws, since he created everything and is the primeval source/father/provider of all. since we are all born into "hell" meaning the natural realm with eternal lust, demonic presence, we cannot fall further than we currently are.

 

[Inkfingers]

Given that apostacy is possible, and that 5 virgins missed out, I voted the second option down.

 

[Albion]

Given that apostacy is possible, and that 5 virgins missed out, I voted the second option down.

Apostasy means abandoning the faith. It doesn't presume that you ever had been saved.

 

[ALoveDivine]

Apostasy means abandoning the faith. It doesn't presume that you ever had been saved.

That seems to be a stretch, and an exercise in philosophical gymnastics. We are saved by faith, and we come into a personal relationship with Christ. Just as a wife can divorce her husband, even though the husband has no desire for that and would be faithful to death, does that mean it is impossible for the wife to get the divorce anyway?

Of course not. It is the same way with us. Christ will never leave us or forsake us, he will always love us and he will always forgive us no matter how many times we sin and no matter how horrible our sin is. Yet we CAN "divorce" him. That is apostasy; to forsake your relationship with Christ. And even then, he will always take us back!

I'd recommend going back and reading John 15. We are specifically called to "abide" in Christ, which means to stay in relationship with him. If we do not abide, we are taken away and thrown out. Christ said "every branch in me" I don't see how this can be taken to mean anything other than what it very plainly implies.

Salvation is extraordinarily difficult to "loose" but it can happen, but only if we consciously and willfully reject our relationship with Christ once and for all never return. A relationship is a two way street, the unfailing love and faithfulness of the one partner is no garuntee that the second won't forsake the relationship. Real love is always relational, God does not force his will on us in such a way that we can't refuse it.
​

 

[Albion]

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That seems to be a stretch, and an exercise in philosophical gymnastics. ​

No, that's actually the meaning oft the word apostasy. ​

 

[tulipbee]

If the elects are called the elects, then why would the chosen one not be an elect with a possibility of not being an elect? The elects are always the elects cause, well, they're chosen.

 

[Miguel Lahunken]

Do you let threats of eternal torment in Hell dominate your life? There is a way out.
God is a just God. What did God take away from you that He didn't give you, therefore, being a just God, that He owes you back? He owes you back your previous eternal nonexistence. At your Judgement before Him, if you want it, ask for your eternal nonexistence back. God, being a just God, will give you your eternal nonexistence back. Then, you will never suffer again.

 

[Miguel Lahunken]

Do you let threats of eternal torment in Hell dominate your life? There is a way out.
God is a just God. What did God take away from you that He didn't give you, therefore, being a just God, that He owes you back? He owes you back your previous eternal nonexistence. At your Judgement before Him, if you want it, ask for your eternal nonexistence back. God, being a just God, will give you your eternal nonexistence back. Then, you will never suffer again.

 

[Gell]

This poll is kind of limited. It is by faith that we are saved through Jesus Christ's sacrifice on the cross.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Assuming you were GENUINELY born-again and once saved, how easy is it to lose your salvation?

Going to people who claim they are genuinely born-again saved,
asking them in person directly and simply and usually gently from Scripture,
it is very easy not to be saved (they(most) already lost their salvation when questioned)