How does one correctly keep the Sabbath according to SDA doctrine?

[BobRyan]

I posted the Source of the post so I would suggest that you contact that author about its validity. It seemed pretty true to me and what I have understood.

you pointed us all to Psychotherpist Jim Moyer as your expert historian -- "source"
East Bay Psychotherapy & Counseling
Jim Moyers, MFT: Psychotherapy & Counseling In Berkeley & Hayward

Classic response! Ignore the truth's and attack the source as suspect!

Indeed - casting about you for a psychotherapist that might make a false claim that could then be posted as if it is "real historic fact" then asking us to "go check your source" in your "contact him - ask him" form of response... (Then complaining that we actually do take a closer look at your source)... does sound like an odd solution.

 

[BobRyan]

LOL! What they don't get is that if you throw her out--our doctrines do not change in any way for they are bible based. The 2 do not contradict each other.

That is a good point. They post an alternate reality where we are supposed to cooperate by posting all of our doctrine and defense "from Ellen White".

Meanwhile as they wait -- our sola scriptura posting is viewed as "just so much inconvenient detail" while waiting for the much-imagined "all Ellen White all the time" definition and defense of our doctrine.

You said...…….
All of this banter back and forth and you have not realized that I am a proponent of Sola Scriptura.

On the contrary - I would hope you are aware of the value of "sola scriptura" in your tactic of ignoring every text we quote - to then ask more about Ellen White or some Psychotherapist that has a bad view of Seventh-day Adventists.

The sola scriptura method is the one we are using. The "I want to quote Ellen White instead" is the method you are using.

That means the prophecies and teachings of Mrs. White are NOT Sola Scriptura at all.

Until you read what scripture says about the gift of prophecy and compare the messages God gave Ellen White vs those God gave prophets in OT and NT.

"The Bible assures us that the gift of prophecy will be active in the last days of this earth's history. It says the church will possess all the spiritual gifts, including the "testimony of Jesus," which is the "spirit of prophecy," or the gift of prophecy (1 Cor. 1:4-47; Rev. 12:17; 19:10).

"Seventh-day Adventists believe that the gift of prophecy was manifested in the life and work of Ellen G. White, one of the early leaders of the church."

THAT my friend is NOT Sola Scriptura.

We can always rely on you to not quote the Bible -- but in one case above you are quoting Rev12 and Rev 19 and calling it "not the Bible" is that right?? Do you read the details in your own posts?

 

[mmksparbud]

But then REAL history says something different.

Adventists have two "inspired" sources of truth:

1).The Bible
2). and the writings of Ellen G. White, which they refer to as the Spirit of Prophecy.

Adventists say that the Bible is their primary source of guidance. It is called the "greater light". As recently as 2005, the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists reaffirmed in a statement entitled "Resolution on the Spirit of Prophecy" that Mrs. White's writings contain "divine counsel" and are a source of "guidance, instruction, correction" for the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Mrs. White's writings, although much more voluminous than the Bible writings, are referred to as the "lesser light".

So then, without Mrs. White there would be no 7th Day Advantist Church IMO.

But then---your opinion is just that. The Sabbath--the subject of this thread--is biblical--for the other denominations that are not SDA have no EGW--a point to which you have never yet responded. The state of the dead, an everlasting burning hell, also not ours alone and totally biblical. Without EGW--nothing about our doctrines would change, they stand on the bible and also subjects that other denominations have without EGW.

 

[mmksparbud]

I do not know of anyone who believes that out side of the 7th Day Church.

Without Ellen G. White there would ne NO Investigative Judgment which is 7th Day doctrine taught by her.

Without Mrs. White there would be NO Sabbatarianism which she taught and is your church doctrine.

Without Mrs. White's teachings there would be NO “Mark of the Beast,” as being Sunday worship which is YOUR church doctrine.

Ellen G. White, suggested that the October 22 1844 date was accurate but that a heavenly (thus invisible) event had taken place. HER teachings became the basis of Seventh-day Adventism, which eventually spawned its own offshoots, including Armstrongism and the Branch Davidians.

Without Mrs. White's teachings YOU would not be saying today that the “Remnant Church” doctrine that implies that the SDA is or will be God’s only true church.

What I do not understand at all is why in the world do you TWO SDA proponents
(YOU and Mr. Ryan) continue to post comments that are so easily proven incorrect and half truths.

Wrong on all points!!! And you have yet to explain how 7th day Baptists uphold the Sabbath without an EGW---every single thing is biblical--Jesus is in Hebrews said to be our High Priest now--what do you think that entails? Have you no concept a all about anything dealing with the sanctuary service or anything other than the doctrines handed down to you by the Catholic church?? Have you ever done any research on anything other than to read what your own church has to say? Have you ever read anything at all dealing with heath issues? Do you ever read anything longer than a 5 sentence paragraph on any subject? Are you able to think on your own at all or do you hold believes that only others have told you to believe? You have been unable to prove a single point even to us. Biblically or historically. You have posted many things completely inaccurate and many half truths. You can't prove your Sunday point biblically and you've been shown how history states otherwise---not our problem you ignore the information. The truth is still there whether you choose to see it or not.

 

[Major1]

But then---your opinion is just that. The Sabbath--the subject of this thread--is biblical--for the other denominations that are not SDA have no EGW--a point to which you have never yet responded. The state of the dead, an everlasting burning hell, also not ours alone and totally biblical. Without EGW--nothing about our doctrines would change, they stand on the bible and also subjects that other denominations have without EGW.

I respect your opinions. I can not agree with you as I am a Sola Scripturist and as such whether or not you understand it or not, the doctrines I posted that you believe as an SDA are not Biblical.

The doctrines you believe originated with Mrs. White and the real historical facts prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

There is no need for me to continue on this circular path with you. You are free to believe as you choose to do so, however you can not then claim what Mrs. White said as it being Biblical.

Have a wonderful life my friend and maybe we can agree on something else in another thread.

 

[Major1]

That is a good point. They post an alternate reality where we are supposed to cooperate by posting all of our doctrine and defense "from Ellen White".

Meanwhile as they wait -- our sola scriptura posting is viewed as "just so much inconvenient detail" while waiting for the much-imagined "all Ellen White all the time" definition and defense of our doctrine.



On the contrary - I would hope you are aware of the value of "sola scriptura" in your tactic of ignoring every text we quote - to then ask more about Ellen White or some Psychotherapist that has a bad view of Seventh-day Adventists.

The sola scriptura method is the one we are using. The "I want to quote Ellen White instead" is the method you are using.



Until you read what scripture says about the gift of prophecy and compare the messages God gave Ellen White vs those God gave prophets in OT and NT.



We can always rely on you to not quote the Bible -- but in one case above you are quoting Rev12 and Rev 19 and calling it "not the Bible" is that right?? Do you read the details in your own posts?

Just as you do in all your postings here and else where, you just can not help yourself from making personal comments and degrading statements about those you are debating with.

As I had to do in another thread with you I find that I will have to do so again.

I will not participate in conversations with anyone who claims to be a Christian and resorts to insults and derogatory comments and manipulations of comments said.

YOu have a wonderful life my friend and I hope you will be well and safe.

Blessings and Major is out!

 

[mmksparbud]

I respect your opinions. I can not agree with you as I am a Sola Scripturist and as such whether or not you understand it or not, the doctrines I posted that you believe as an SDA are not Biblical.

The doctrines you believe originated with Mrs. White and the real historical facts prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

There is no need for me to continue on this circular path with you. You are free to believe as you choose to do so, however you can not then claim what Mrs. White said as it being Biblical.

Have a wonderful life my friend and maybe we can agree on something else in another thread.

It is very simple---all you have to do is prove our doctrines are not biblical.. You saying they are not does not make them so. Biblically, you have not proved Sunday worship. Biblically, you can not disprove the state of the dead, biblically you can not prove an everlasting burning hell--you are not Sola Scriptura--you have taken your doctrines from the Pope, not the bible. You are, however, certainly free to do so. Blessings.

 

[BobRyan]

I respect your opinions. I can not agree with you as I am a Sola Scripturist .

I like it when "Sola scripturists" quote the actual Bible instead of their favorite Ellen White topic or their favorite psychotherapist-as-historian topics.

 

[klutedavid]

This is what you wrote.

Another historian also confirmed this by stating, “The people of Constantinople, and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week, which custom is never observed at Rome or at Alexandria.” – Sozomen, Ecclesiastical History, Book 7, ch. 19.

First day observance was world wide, that is what your quotation states.

Rome and Alexander did not celebrate the Sabbath, they only celebrated the first day.

Sozomen wrote in the fifth century many decades after the council of Laodicea (364 AD).

Laodicea was a city in the Eastern Roman Empire, the bishops of Rome did not attend the Laodicea council.

So we know that parts of the Easter Roman Empire did not practice the Sabbath also. As well as Alexander and Rome. Sozomen seems ignorant of the council of Laodicea!

 

[klutedavid]

It is very simple---all you have to do is prove our doctrines are not biblical.. You saying they are not does not make them so. Biblically, you have not proved Sunday worship. Biblically, you can not disprove the state of the dead, biblically you can not prove an everlasting burning hell--you are not Sola Scriptura--you have taken your doctrines from the Pope, not the bible. You are, however, certainly free to do so. Blessings.

Popes and Rome had nothing to do with the council of Laodicea and the canon law regarding
first day gathering.

Constantine was not a pope or a bishop of Rome, Constantine was a Roman emperor. Constantine introduced a public holiday on Sunday. Constantine had nothing to do with the Sabbath.

 

[BobRyan]

This is what you wrote.

Another historian also confirmed this by stating, “The people of Constantinople, and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week, which custom is never observed at Rome or at Alexandria.” – Sozomen, Ecclesiastical History, Book 7, ch. 19.

First day observance was world wide, that is what your quotation states.

Everyone agrees that there came a point - after enough centuries had passed that both observances were going . That is not "news".

Sozomen wrote in the fifth century many decades after the council of Laodicea (364 AD).
!

And yet "still" we see the Sabbath continued - even 400 years later... God's Truth was not dying out as easy as some had hoped as they entered upon the long night of the dark ages.

 

[klutedavid]

Your probably not recognizing that both days were significant through the first four centuries, not just that one day. That is why the council of Laodicea corrected the problem.

One would expect a lot of chaos in these first four centuries as far as the gospel is concerned. And that is exactly what we see in all the church letters.

 

[mmksparbud]

Popes and Rome had nothing to do with the council of Laodicea and the canon law regarding
first day gathering.

Constantine was not a pope or a bishop of Rome, Constantine was a Roman emperor. Constantine introduced a public holiday on Sunday. Constantine had nothing to do with the Sabbath.

This was the beginning of official Sunday worship---he "venerable day of the sun." Constantine was pagan, he "converted" Christianity but still kept pagan ideas and wanted to unify the country with Sunday worship. It brought the pagans in. It is exactly as you say--he had nothing to do with the Sabbath but it was an attempt at unification of pagan and Christian--and it worked. It was a pagan influence of the church and the beginnings of Catholicism. A practice of pagan and Christian that has worked in other places such as South America and parts of Mexico were Catholicism took hold, but the people kept some of their -pagan worship practices and just mixed a little of each. To this day, many Incas still have the sun worship ceremonies and other pagan practices. But throughout history--always there were a remnant that continued to keep the bible Sabbath.

 

[mmksparbud]

Your probably not recognizing that both days were significant through the first four centuries, not just that one day. That is why the council of Laodicea corrected the problem.

One would expect a lot of chaos in these first four centuries as far as the gospel is concerned. And that is exactly what we see in all the church letters.

They did not correct the problem but merely continued to honor an pagan day.

 

[klutedavid]

This was the beginning of official Sunday worship---he "venerable day of the sun." Constantine was pagan, he "converted" Christianity but still kept pagan ideas and wanted to unify the country with Sunday worship. It brought the pagans in. It is exactly as you say--he had nothing to do with the Sabbath but it was an attempt at unification of pagan and Christian--and it worked. It was a pagan influence of the church and the beginnings of Catholicism. A practice of pagan and Christian that has worked in other places such as South America and parts of Mexico were Catholicism took hold, but the people kept some of their -pagan worship practices and just mixed a little of each. To this day, many Incas still have the sun worship ceremonies and other pagan practices. But throughout history--always there were a remnant that continued to keep the bible Sabbath.

It is not about a Sabbath obsession it is about Jesus Christ. It is not your outward obedience to some written law, it is all about living in the Holy Spirit.

Constantine did declare a public holiday in the Roman empire. Yet the first day observance had been underway across Christendom for centuries, regardless of any public holiday.

No matter where you look through the first four centuries, you will find the first day is significant. You are in denial and that is not good.

 

[klutedavid]

They did not correct the problem but merely continued to honor an pagan day.

The first day is not a pagan day. Where did you get that idea from?

 

[klutedavid]

This was the beginning of official Sunday worship---he "venerable day of the sun." Constantine was pagan, he "converted" Christianity but still kept pagan ideas and wanted to unify the country with Sunday worship. It brought the pagans in. It is exactly as you say--he had nothing to do with the Sabbath but it was an attempt at unification of pagan and Christian--and it worked. It was a pagan influence of the church and the beginnings of Catholicism. A practice of pagan and Christian that has worked in other places such as South America and parts of Mexico were Catholicism took hold, but the people kept some of their -pagan worship practices and just mixed a little of each. To this day, many Incas still have the sun worship ceremonies and other pagan practices. But throughout history--always there were a remnant that continued to keep the bible Sabbath.

You need to furnish the proof that Rome itself legislated a first day breaking of the bread. We need the hard evidence and not some claim.

 

[klutedavid]

It is very simple---all you have to do is prove our doctrines are not biblical.. You saying they are not does not make them so. Biblically, you have not proved Sunday worship. Biblically, you can not disprove the state of the dead, biblically you can not prove an everlasting burning hell--you are not Sola Scriptura--you have taken your doctrines from the Pope, not the bible. You are, however, certainly free to do so. Blessings.

The onus is on a fringe denomination to prove from the scripture, that gentiles were commanded to obey the law.

Where does it say in the scripture that Gentiles are UNDER the written law?

 

[BobRyan]

Your probably not recognizing that both days were significant through the first four centuries, not just that one day.

You are missing the detail that you have no first-century evidence for your "both days" idea

 

[mmksparbud]

It is not about a Sabbath obsession it is about Jesus Christ. It is not your outward obedience to some written law, it is all about living in the Holy Spirit.

Constantine did declare a public holiday in the Roman empire. Yet the first day observance had been underway across Christendom for centuries, regardless of any public holiday.

No matter where you look through the first four centuries, you will find the first day is significant. You are in denial and that is not good.

Exactly---and it was Jesus that wrote --with His own hand--the 10 commandments. And no man--has the right to change that. You are free to do whatever you please. No one is demanding you do anything. We are saying this is what the bible says, it is what God wrote and He has never said to do otherwise. If Jesus did not state to do anything else--His word stands regardless of how many people say otherwise, or how much a pagan form of worship people want to keep. It is all about Him and what He says. Cain also thought he would do what he wanted instead if what God wanted---didn't go well. All anybody has to do is to point to a verse that says---Jesus says He has changed the 4th commandment to the 1st day of the week---or any other day. It matters diddly squat to me what day to worship--it matters to God. and I see no sense in arguing with Him about it. If He said Tuesday and hadn't said otherwise--then Tuesday it would be regardless of what the whole world said about it. It is a matter of whom to obey God or man.