How does one correctly keep the Sabbath according to SDA doctrine?

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BobRyan

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Wrong!!!!!!

...
The following quotation is an excellent summary statement which shows the fivefold development:
(1) The name of the believers in 1860.
(2) The incorporation of the publishing house in 1861.
(3) The incorporation of the first conferences in 1861.
(4) The organization of the denomination and its headquarters in 1863.
(5) The establishment of other subsidiaries, other than the publishing work, in later years. “In a general meeting at Battle Creek in 1860
the Name, “Seventh-day Adventist”.

Source...…..YOUR OWN apologitic web site @ http://www.sdadefend.com/MINDEX-T/Trademark-923.pdf

This is just too easy!

On this "how to keep the Sabbath" thread -- you appear to be trying to prove that the name "Seventh-day Adventist" was attached to the SDA church in the 1860's and also that in 1858 Ellen White said this should be the name.

Your own link argues some individuals and some local congregations were said to be using the name in 1858.

AS IF that somehow sustains your wild claim that William Miller in 1845 called himself a Seventh-day Adventist or even had the distinctive beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists.

Is that your story?? If so I find your logic "illusive"

There is nothing more central, or controversial, in the Seventh-day Adventist Church than Ellen G. White and her work. From the very beginning of the movement there has been heated debate about the nature of her revelations and their place in the church. Most of the questions raised have never been completely resolved, .

Clearly you would love it if that were the actual topic of this thread -- I think we can all see that.
 
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BobRyan

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Major1 said:
Adventists historically have been reluctant to disclose to outsiders the central role of White in their church for fear of being branded a cult with an extra-Biblical source for their beliefs, which is in fact how they are viewed by many mainstream Christians. As a result of this reticence, Ellen G. White, unlike her contemporaries Joseph Smith and Mary Baker Eddy, remains virtually unknown outside Adventist circles.

That is total baloney!! She is talked bout at every single Evangelistic meeting. She is discussed on the SDA TV programs (the Hope channel and 3ABN and Doug Bachelor has his own shows also--Amazing facts show)----which are on the internet and all together viewed by more non-SDA's than actual SDA's!
We have no reticence in discussing her. When it comes to doctrines--we quote the bible for that is where we get our doctrines from. None of them are from any other source than the bible.

Careful mmksparbud - there is more than a little baiting going on there. The false choice presented in the post you respond to is of the form "either you entirely ignore everything God ever told Ellen White -- or else you reject all of scripture and base your doctrine on Ellen White instead of the Bible". False choices come in many flavors.

So then Paul Harvey did not "Exist" according to those who know very little about Ellen White.

The Smithsonian magazine named Ellen G. White among the "100 Most Significant Americans of All Time.[1] (Frail, T.A. (November 17, 2014). "Meet the 100 Most Significant Americans of All Time". Smithsonian.com. Retrieved February 2, 2018.)
Ellen G. White - Wikipedia

OF course we have to consider the posiblity that the Smithsonian does not exist either.

From that same source "Her book on successful Christian living, Steps to Christ, has been published in more than 140 languages."

No wonder Christianity Today reports in 2015 that the Seventh-day Adventist church is the 5th largest and one of the fastest growing Christian denominations in the world. Adventists: Can Ben Carson's Church Stay Separatist?
 
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BobRyan

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I posted the Source of the post so I would suggest that you contact that author about its validity. It seemed pretty true to me and what I have understood.

One of the best web sites available on this subject is found at...……
Ellen G. White & the Seventh-day Adventist Church
.

A wonderful example where you pointed us all to Psychotherpist Jim Moyer as your expert historian -- "source"
East Bay Psychotherapy & Counseling
Jim Moyers, MFT: Psychotherapy & Counseling In Berkeley & Hayward

I assume this is where you expect your point to be taken seriously.
 
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mmksparbud

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Careful mmksparbud - there is more than a little baiting going on there. The false choice presented in the post you respond to is of the form "either you entirely ignore everything God ever told Ellen White -- or else you reject all of scripture and base your doctrine on Ellen White instead of the Bible". False choices come in many flavors.

LOL! What they don't get is that if you throw her out--our doctrines do not change in any way for they are bible based. The 2 do not contradict each other. Should be obvious for they have been unable to prove that there is a biblical base for Sunday worship. Even the Catholic church admits they changed the day to Sunday without any biblical bases but because it was their decision to do so for they have the power to change the word of God. And they have been unable to explain how all those other churches on down since the disciples, got the Sabbath without the aid of EGW.
 
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BobRyan

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LOL! What they don't get is that if you throw her out--our doctrines do not change in any way for they are bible based. The 2 do not contradict each other.

That is a good point. They post an alternate reality where we are supposed to cooperate by posting all of our doctrine and defense "from Ellen White".

Meanwhile as they wait -- our sola scriptura posting is viewed as "just so much inconvenient detail" while waiting for the much-imagined "all Ellen White all the time" definition and defense of our doctrine.
 
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BobRyan

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At the height of his ministry, William Miller had gathered some 50,000 followers,

I think this is where the pork-eating, sunday keeping, immortal soul believing, Ellen White never-knowing William Miller is "supposed" to look like a Seventh-day Adventist to Major1.

I would argue that there are a great many pre-mill, pork-eating, sunday keeping, immortal soul believing Christians today whose doctrines are much closer to William Miller in 1845 than the SDA denomination is or ever was.

Which of course would be a great discussion point IF that were the actual topic of this thread.
 
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klutedavid

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I think this is where the pork-eating, sunday keeping, immortal soul believing, Ellen White never-knowing William Miller is "supposed" to look like a Seventh-day Adventist to Major1.

I would argue that there are a great many pre-mill, pork-eating, sunday keeping, immortal soul believing Christians today whose doctrines are much closer to William Miller in 1845 than the SDA denomination is or ever was.

Which of course would be a great discussion point IF that were the actual topic of this thread.
This has nothing to do with the thread.

The Laodicea council (364 AD) legislated the first day as the day to break the bread. This was before the Catholic church, that is, if the Catholic church ever issued any canon law regarding Sunday. Which I have never seen!

It is good to support statements with hard evidence.
 
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klutedavid

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I think this is where the pork-eating, sunday keeping, immortal soul believing, Ellen White never-knowing William Miller is "supposed" to look like a Seventh-day Adventist to Major1.

I would argue that there are a great many pre-mill, pork-eating, sunday keeping, immortal soul believing Christians today whose doctrines are much closer to William Miller in 1845 than the SDA denomination is or ever was.

Which of course would be a great discussion point IF that were the actual topic of this thread.
Eating a pig is listed under the ceremonial law (Leviticus 11:7-8) as you call it, so that no longer applies. I will put an order in for bacon and eggs.
 
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klutedavid

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Careful mmksparbud - there is more than a little baiting going on there. The false choice presented in the post you respond to is of the form "either you entirely ignore everything God ever told Ellen White -- or else you reject all of scripture and base your doctrine on Ellen White instead of the Bible". False choices come in many flavors.

So then Paul Harvey did not "Exist" according to those who know very little about Ellen White.

The Smithsonian magazine named Ellen G. White among the "100 Most Significant Americans of All Time.[1] (Frail, T.A. (November 17, 2014). "Meet the 100 Most Significant Americans of All Time". Smithsonian.com. Retrieved February 2, 2018.)
Ellen G. White - Wikipedia

OF course we have to consider the posiblity that the Smithsonian does not exist either.

From that same source "Her book on successful Christian living, Steps to Christ, has been published in more than 140 languages."

No wonder Christianity Today reports in 2015 that the Seventh-day Adventist church is the 5th largest and one of the fastest growing Christian denominations in the world. Adventists: Can Ben Carson's Church Stay Separatist?
That is not scripture it's just the words of mortal men.
 
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BobRyan

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Major1 said:
As a result of this reticence, Ellen G. White, unlike her contemporaries Joseph Smith and Mary Baker Eddy, remains virtually unknown outside Adventist circles.

That is not scripture it's just the words of mortal men.

Careful mmksparbud - there is more than a little baiting going on there. The false choice presented in the post you respond to is of the form "either you entirely ignore everything God ever told Ellen White -- or else you reject all of scripture and base your doctrine on Ellen White instead of the Bible". False choices come in many flavors.

So then Paul Harvey did not "Exist" according to those who know very little about Ellen White.

The Smithsonian magazine named Ellen G. White among the "100 Most Significant Americans of All Time.[1] (Frail, T.A. (November 17, 2014). "Meet the 100 Most Significant Americans of All Time". Smithsonian.com. Retrieved February 2, 2018.)
Ellen G. White - Wikipedia

OF course we have to consider the posiblity that the Smithsonian does not exist either.

From that same source "Her book on successful Christian living, Steps to Christ, has been published in more than 140 languages."

No wonder Christianity Today reports in 2015 that the Seventh-day Adventist church is the 5th largest and one of the fastest growing Christian denominations in the world. Adventists: Can Ben Carson's Church Stay Separatist?

That is not scripture it's just the words of mortal men.

Was scripture going to refute the false idea "As a result of this reticence, Ellen G. White... remains virtually unknown outside Adventist circles. "

By referencing -

Paul Harvey's comments about Ellen White?

The Smithsonian magazine named Ellen G. White among the "100 Most Significant Americans of All Time.[1] (Frail, T.A. (November 17, 2014). "Meet the 100 Most Significant Americans of All Time". Smithsonian.com. Retrieved February 2, 2018.)
Ellen G. White - Wikipedia

From that same source "Her book on successful Christian living, Steps to Christ, has been published in more than 140 languages."

No wonder Christianity Today reports in 2015 that the Seventh-day Adventist church is the 5th largest and one of the fastest growing Christian denominations in the world. Adventists: Can Ben Carson's Church Stay Separatist?

===================

The references to Ellen White from 20th and 21st century sources - that refute the false accusation should have come "from scripture"??
 
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mmksparbud

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This has nothing to do with the thread.

The Laodicea council (364 AD) legislated the first day as the day to break the bread. This was before the Catholic church, that is, if the Catholic church ever issued any canon law regarding Sunday. Which I have never seen!

It is good to support statements with hard evidence.

The Laodicean council may do as they please---God declared otherwise and that is who is the ruler of this universe. It's His opinion that matters.


Missorium of Emperor Theodosius I, who made Nicene Christianity the state religion of the Roman Empire.

With the Edict of Thessalonica in 380 AD, Emperor Theodosius I made Nicene Christianity the Empire's state religion.[1][2] The Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, and the Catholic Church each stand in that continuity.

Earlier in the 4th century, following the Diocletianic Persecution of 303-313 and the Donatist controversy that arose in consequence, Constantine had convened councils of bishops to define the orthodoxy of the Christian faith, expanding on earlier Christian councils. A series of ecumenical councils convened by successive emperors met during the 4th and 5th centuries, but Christianity continued to suffer rifts and schisms surrounding the issues of Arianism, Nestorianism, and Miaphysitism. In the 5th century the Western Empire decayed as a polity: invaders sacked Rome in 410 and in 455, and Odoacer, an Arian barbarian warlord, forced Romulus Augustus, the last nominal Western Emperor, to abdicate in 476. However, apart from the aforementioned schisms, the church as an institution persisted in communion, if not without tension, between the east and west. In the 6th century the Byzantine armies of the Eastern Roman Emperor Justinian I recovered Italy and other sections of the western Mediterranean shore. The Eastern Roman Empire soon lost most of these gains, but it held Rome, as part of the Exarchate of Ravenna, until 751, a period known in church history as the Byzantine Papacy. The Muslim conquests of the 7th century would begin a process of converting most of the then-Christian world in West Asia and North Africa to Islam, severely restricting the reach both of the Byzantine Empire and of its church. Missionary activity directed from Constantinople, the Byzantine capital, did not lead to a lasting expansion of the formal link between the church and the Byzantine emperor, since areas outside the empire's political and military control set up their own distinct churches, as in the case of Bulgaria in 919.
In 311, the dying Emperor Galerius ended the Diocletianic Persecution that he is reputed to have instigated, and in 313, Emperor Constantine issued the Edict of Milan, granting to Christians and others "the right of open and free observance of their worship".[26]

Constantine began to utilize Christian symbols such as the Chi-Rho early in his reign but still encouraged traditional Roman religious practices including sun worship. In 330, Constantine established the city of Constantinople as the new capital of the Roman Empire. The city would gradually come to be seen as the intellectual and cultural center of the Christian world.[27]

Over the course of the 4th century the Christian body became consumed by debates surrounding orthodoxy, i.e. which religious doctrines are the correct ones. In the early 4th century, a group in North Africa, later called Donatists, who believed in a very rigid interpretation of Christianity that excluded many who had abandoned the faith during the Diocletianic persecution, created a crisis in the western Empire.[28]

A synod was held in Rome in 313, followed by another in Arles in 314, the latter presided over by Constantine while still a junior emperor (see Tetrarchy). These synods ruled that the Donatist faith was heresy and, when the Donatists refused to recant, Constantine launched the first campaign of persecution by Christians against Christians, and began imperial involvement in Christian theology. However, during the reign of Emperor Julian the Apostate, the Donatists, who formed the majority party in the Roman province of Africa for 30 years,[29] were given official approval.[30]
State church of the Roman Empire - Wikipedia

In 312 A.D., prior to his pivotal victory over his rival Maxentius at the Battle of Milvian Bridge, Constantine became a “Christian” after claiming to see in broad daylight a vision of “a cross above the sun” with these words emblazoned, “in hoc signo vinces” (by this sign conquer”). After defeating his enemies and becoming Emperor of Rome, Constantine presided in full royal pomp over the “First Council of Nicea” in 325 A.D.

As a shrewd political genius, his scheme was to unite Christianity and paganism in an effort to strengthen his disintegrating empire. Constantine knew that pagans throughout the empire worshiped the sun on “the first day of the week,” and he discovered that many Christians and especially in Rome and Alexandria also kept Sunday because Christ rose from the dead on that day. So Constantine developed a plan to unite both groups on the common platform of Sunday keeping. On March 7, 321 A.D., he passed his famous national Sunday law:

First Sunday Law enacted by Emperor Constantine - March, 321 A.D.
On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or for vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. (Given the 7th day of March, Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them for the second time [A.D. 321].)” Source: Codex Justinianus, lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; trans. in Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, Vol.3 (5th ed.; New York: Scribner, 1902), p.380, note 1.

Now a professed Christian, Constantine nevertheless remained a devout sun worshipper. “The sun was universally celebrated as the invincible guide and protector of Constantine,” notes Edward Gibbon in his classic Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, ch. xx, par. 3.

Constantine even printed coins which “bore on the one side the letters of the name of Christ, on the other the figure of the sun god.” Arthur P. Stanley, History of the Eastern Church, lect. vi, par. 14.

Again, Constantine’s promotion of Sunday observance was part of his definite strategy to combine paganism with Christianity: “The retention of the old pagan name of dies Solis, or 'Sunday,' for the weekly Christian festival, is in great measure owing to the union of pagan and Christian sentiment with which the first day of the week was recommended by Constantine to his subjects, pagan and Christian alike, as the ‘venerable day of the Sun.’” – Stanley’s History of the Eastern Church, p. 184.

In spite of the rising popularity of Sunday sacredness, Church historian Socrates Scholasticus (5th century) wrote: “For although almost all churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries [of the Lord's Supper] on the Sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, have ceased to do this.” – Socrates Scholasticus, Ecclesiastical History, Book 5, ch. 22.

Another historian also confirmed this by stating, “The people of Constantinople, and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week, which custom is never observed at Rome or at Alexandria.” – Sozomen, Ecclesiastical History, Book 7, ch. 19. Thus even in the 5th century, Sabbath keeping was universally prevalent (except in Rome and Alexandria) along with Sunday keeping. Many Christians kept both days, but as the centuries wore on, Sunday keeping grew in prominence and especially within Roman Catholic territories.

In 330 A.D., Constantine moved his capital from Rome to Constantinople (modern Istanbul), thus preparing the way for the Roman Catholic Popes to reign in Rome as the successors of Constantine. As the Papal Church grew in power, it opposed Sabbath observance in favour of Sunday sacredness and made the day change official in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 363-364). Constantine's law had now been fully integrated into the Papal Church and the final step of the Sabbath to Sunday change was complete.

So around the year A.D. 364, the Catholic Church outlawed Sabbath keeping in the Council of Laodicea when they decreed 59 Canon laws. The following is the relevant Canon law: Canon XXIX: “Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.” (Percival Translation).

Four hundred years after the death of Christ and one hundred years after Constantine's linking of Church and State by his Sunday law edict, Rome and Alexandria were the only places in the world where many of the Christians kept only Sunday and not the true Sabbath. Why was it that Rome and Alexandria were also the first locations that Sunday worship began? Because this is where the pagan practices of Babylon eventually landed after it was conquered. And what was the dominant pagan practice that the Babylonian priests brought with them? Sun worship which was done on Sun-day! See the history of Sunday worship for more detail.

So one can understand why Rome and Alexandria did not bother to keep the true Sabbath as they had not done so for 200 years. Throughout the entire history of the changeover from Sabbath to Sunday, Rome and Alexandria had worked together. Alexandria provided the philosophical reasons for the changes and Rome provided the decrees and anathemas. Constantine's help was given only to the worldly Church leaders at Rome and those Christians that resisted the errors that were being introduced into the Church met with his opposition. “Unite with the bishop of Rome or be destroyed,” was Constantine's position.
 
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BobRyan

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At the height of his ministry, William Miller had gathered some 50,000 followers,

I think this is where the pork-eating, sunday keeping, immortal soul believing, Ellen White never-knowing William Miller is "supposed" to look like a Seventh-day Adventist to Major1.

I would argue that there are a great many pre-mill, pork-eating, sunday keeping, immortal soul believing Christians today whose doctrines are much closer to William Miller in 1845 than the SDA denomination is or ever was.

Which of course would be a great discussion point IF that were the actual topic of this thread.

This has nothing to do with the thread.

As it turns out.

The Laodicea council (364 AD) legislated the first day as the day to break the bread.

Acts 20
28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears
 
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BobRyan

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Eating a pig is listed under the ceremonial law (Leviticus 11:7-8) as you call it, .

I never called Lev 11 "ceremonial law".
Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself" -- also "not ceremonial law"
Lev 17 law against eating animals that are strangled -- with blood etc -- as prohibited in Acts 15 "not ceremonial law".
 
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Major1

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Was scripture going to refute the false idea "As a result of this reticence, Ellen G. White... remains virtually unknown outside Adventist circles. "

By referencing -

Paul Harvey's comments about Ellen White?

The Smithsonian magazine named Ellen G. White among the "100 Most Significant Americans of All Time.[1] (Frail, T.A. (November 17, 2014). "Meet the 100 Most Significant Americans of All Time". Smithsonian.com. Retrieved February 2, 2018.)
Ellen G. White - Wikipedia

From that same source "Her book on successful Christian living, Steps to Christ, has been published in more than 140 languages."

No wonder Christianity Today reports in 2015 that the Seventh-day Adventist church is the 5th largest and one of the fastest growing Christian denominations in the world. Adventists: Can Ben Carson's Church Stay Separatist?

===================

The references to Ellen White from 20th and 21st century sources - that refute the false accusation should have come "from scripture"??

Good information but what does it have to do with the OP's presentation?
 
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Major1

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That is a good point. They post an alternate reality where we are supposed to cooperate by posting all of our doctrine and defense "from Ellen White".

Meanwhile as they wait -- our sola scriptura posting is viewed as "just so much inconvenient detail" while waiting for the much-imagined "all Ellen White all the time" definition and defense of our doctrine.

But then REAL history says something different.

Adventists have two "inspired" sources of truth:

1).The Bible
2). and the writings of Ellen G. White, which they refer to as the Spirit of Prophecy.

Adventists say that the Bible is their primary source of guidance. It is called the "greater light". As recently as 2005, the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists reaffirmed in a statement entitled "Resolution on the Spirit of Prophecy" that Mrs. White's writings contain "divine counsel" and are a source of "guidance, instruction, correction" for the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Mrs. White's writings, although much more voluminous than the Bible writings, are referred to as the "lesser light".

So then, without Mrs. White there would be no 7th Day Advantist Church IMO.
 
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Major1

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That is a good point. They post an alternate reality where we are supposed to cooperate by posting all of our doctrine and defense "from Ellen White".

Meanwhile as they wait -- our sola scriptura posting is viewed as "just so much inconvenient detail" while waiting for the much-imagined "all Ellen White all the time" definition and defense of our doctrine.

You said...…….
"Meanwhile as they wait -- our sola scriptura posting is viewed as "just so much inconvenient detail" while waiting for the much-imagined "all Ellen White all the time" definition and defense of our doctrine. "

All of this banter back and forth and you have not realized that I am a proponent of Sola Scriptura.

That means the prophecies and teachings of Mrs. White are NOT Sola Scriptura at all.

"The Bible assures us that the gift of prophecy will be active in the last days of this earth's history. It says the church will possess all the spiritual gifts, including the "testimony of Jesus," which is the "spirit of prophecy," or the gift of prophecy (1 Cor. 1:4-47; Rev. 12:17; 19:10).

"Seventh-day Adventists believe that the gift of prophecy was manifested in the life and work of Ellen G. White, one of the early leaders of the church."

THAT my friend is NOT Sola Scriptura.
 
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Major1

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LOL! What they don't get is that if you throw her out--our doctrines do not change in any way for they are bible based. The 2 do not contradict each other. Should be obvious for they have been unable to prove that there is a biblical base for Sunday worship. Even the Catholic church admits they changed the day to Sunday without any biblical bases but because it was their decision to do so for they have the power to change the word of God. And they have been unable to explain how all those other churches on down since the disciples, got the Sabbath without the aid of EGW.

I do not know of anyone who believes that out side of the 7th Day Church.

Without Ellen G. White there would ne NO Investigative Judgment which is 7th Day doctrine taught by her.

Without Mrs. White there would be NO Sabbatarianism which she taught and is your church doctrine.

Without Mrs. White's teachings there would be NO “Mark of the Beast,” as being Sunday worship which is YOUR church doctrine.

Ellen G. White, suggested that the October 22 1844 date was accurate but that a heavenly (thus invisible) event had taken place. HER teachings became the basis of Seventh-day Adventism, which eventually spawned its own offshoots, including Armstrongism and the Branch Davidians.

Without Mrs. White's teachings YOU would not be saying today that the “Remnant Church” doctrine that implies that the SDA is or will be God’s only true church.

What I do not understand at all is why in the world do you TWO SDA proponents
(YOU and Mr. Ryan) continue to post comments that are so easily proven incorrect and half truths.
 
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Careful mmksparbud - there is more than a little baiting going on there. The false choice presented in the post you respond to is of the form "either you entirely ignore everything God ever told Ellen White -- or else you reject all of scripture and base your doctrine on Ellen White instead of the Bible". False choices come in many flavors.

So then Paul Harvey did not "Exist" according to those who know very little about Ellen White.

The Smithsonian magazine named Ellen G. White among the "100 Most Significant Americans of All Time.[1] (Frail, T.A. (November 17, 2014). "Meet the 100 Most Significant Americans of All Time". Smithsonian.com. Retrieved February 2, 2018.)
Ellen G. White - Wikipedia

OF course we have to consider the posiblity that the Smithsonian does not exist either.

From that same source "Her book on successful Christian living, Steps to Christ, has been published in more than 140 languages."

No wonder Christianity Today reports in 2015 that the Seventh-day Adventist church is the 5th largest and one of the fastest growing Christian denominations in the world. Adventists: Can Ben Carson's Church Stay Separatist?

That sounds a lot like pride to me and pride comes before a fall. I actually do hope that you are correct but the NON Advantist sites say that the 7 th Day church is losing as many as it brings in.

In 2005, the SDA Church reported alarming membership losses. Despite adding 5 million new believers during the 5-year period of 2000-2004, over 1.4 million members left the church during that same period.2

SDA minister Vance Ferrell describes the problem in his newsletter:

"That is a very high loss. According to the official report, 'for every 100 accessions, more than 35 others decided to leave.'

WHY ?

Below are some of the Top Reasons cited by Adventists who study their way out of the SDA Church:

 
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Major1 said:
Adventists historically have been reluctant to disclose to outsiders the central role of White in their church for fear of being branded a cult with an extra-Biblical source for their beliefs, which is in fact how they are viewed by many mainstream Christians. As a result of this reticence, Ellen G. White, unlike her contemporaries Joseph Smith and Mary Baker Eddy, remains virtually unknown outside Adventist circles.

That is total baloney!! She is talked bout at every single Evangelistic meeting. She is discussed on the SDA TV programs (the Hope channel and 3ABN and Doug Bachelor has his own shows also--Amazing facts show)----which are on the internet and all together viewed by more non-SDA's than actual SDA's!
We have no reticence in discussing her. When it comes to doctrines--we quote the bible for that is where we get our doctrines from. None of them are from any other source than the bible.

Careful mmksparbud - there is more than a little baiting going on there. The false choice presented in the post you respond to is of the form "either you entirely ignore everything God ever told Ellen White -- or else you reject all of scripture and base your doctrine on Ellen White instead of the Bible". False choices come in many flavors.

So then Paul Harvey did not "Exist" according to those who know very little about Ellen White.

The Smithsonian magazine named Ellen G. White among the "100 Most Significant Americans of All Time.[1] (Frail, T.A. (November 17, 2014). "Meet the 100 Most Significant Americans of All Time". Smithsonian.com. Retrieved February 2, 2018.)
Ellen G. White - Wikipedia

OF course we have to consider the posiblity that the Smithsonian does not exist either.

From that same source "Her book on successful Christian living, Steps to Christ, has been published in more than 140 languages."

No wonder Christianity Today reports in 2015 that the Seventh-day Adventist church is the 5th largest and one of the fastest growing Christian denominations in the world. Adventists: Can Ben Carson's Church Stay Separatist?

That sounds a lot like pride to me and pride comes before a fall. I actually do hope that you are correct

I am referencing "real data" -- being reported by those non-SDA sources -- just when you had imagined that this sort of data could only be known by SDAs. Not sure if that counts as pride -- I view it as documented fact that refutes your speculation.

More fact from the non-SDA sources - ChristianityToday
"In 2014, for the 10th year in a row, more than 1 million people became Adventists, hitting a record 18.1 million members. Adventism is now the fifth-largest Christian communion worldwide, after Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Anglicanism, and the Assemblies of God."

USAToday
Adventists' back-to-basics faith is fastest growing U.S. church - USATODAY.com
Adventists' back-to-basics faith is fastest growing U.S. church
G. Jeffrey MacDonald, Religion News Service
Updated 3/17/2011 5:36:48 PM |
"


but the NON Advantist sites say that the 7 th Day church is losing as many as it brings in.

So then without any actual facts we could imagine "zero growth" instead of "fastest growing"..

In 2005, the SDA Church reported alarming membership losses. Despite adding 5 million new believers during the 5-year period of 2000-2004, over 1.4 million members left the church during that same period.2

hmmm ... net gain of 3.6M in that 5 old-news 5 year period. Which you summarize as "gain 5 million ... lose 5 million" while quoting a statistic that says net-gain 3.6 million?

Seriously??

Is someone "paying you" to highlight strengths as if strength is weakness?
 
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