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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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Good day,

From one of the top 2 Greek exegeses alive today...

Do Paul and James Disagree on Justification by Faith Alone?



You may want to get his version of the NT and read his explanation on that comment in the 1522 edition of his NT. Because it is clear from your conclusion (he did not) you are lacking the primary context of the statement and built your self a good little Straw-man.

Six Points On Luther’s “Epistle of Straw” | Alpha and Omega Ministries

In Him,

Instead of giving links, it would be best to have the discussion here. Most are not going to run off and read your links unless they believe as you do.

Luther himself said:
"I think highly of the epistle of James, and regard it as valuable although it was rejected in early days. It does not expound human doctrines, but lays much emphasis on God’s law. …I do not hold it to be of apostolic authorship."[8]

Source:
Luther's canon - Wikipedia
 
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BBAS 64

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Instead of giving links, it would be best to have the discussion here. Most are not going to run off and read your links unless they believe as you do.

Luther himself said:
"I think highly of the epistle of James, and regard it as valuable although it was rejected in early days. It does not expound human doctrines, but lays much emphasis on God’s law. …I do not hold it to be of apostolic authorship."[8]

Source:
Luther's canon - Wikipedia

Good Day, Jason

Quite a bit different than "He did not like what the book of James had to say."

The authorship question of James historically extends into the early 4 th century.

Well I certainly do not poses thew exegetical skills of Schreiner. Some may find it worth while to sit "at the feet" of this teacher which God has provided to us.

In Him,

Bill
 
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Ken Rank

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You can play Greek word games, but the context says be ye perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect. Are you saying the Father is not perfect?
God is perfect, and I am not playing word games. It means what it means. I am going to ask one last time... your silence is an answer, by the way. Since coming to the Lord, have you ever gotten too mad at somebody, had road rage, pride, gossiped, had lust? Yes or no... it is a simple question.

The fact that I have asked it 5 or 6 times now and you won't answer tells me your answer is "yes" and you are too embarrassed to say it... or recognize that by saying it, you shoot your own point down. Either way, your point is shot down. Until you are perfected, which doesn't happen UNTIL Messiah returns, then you remain imperfect. You're either perfected or you're not Jason.... so if you say "I am perfect" then you are the ONLY ONE save for Messiah. If you admit you're imperfect until He returns... then the point you have been trying to make through this whole thread, is wrong. It isn't a big deal, we've all been wrong before.
 
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Good Day, Jason

Quite a bit different than "He did not like what the book of James had to say."

The authorship question of James historically extends into the early 4 th century.

Well I certainly do not poses thew exegetical skills of Schreiner. Some may find it worth while to sit "at the feet" of this teacher which God has provided to us.

In Him,

Bill

It is obvious that James did not like what James said in James 2.

Luther says this about God's commandments,
“Their only purpose is to show man his impotence to do good and to teach him to despair of himself”

“‘Thou shalt not covet,’ is a commandment which proves us all to be sinners; since it is not in man’s power not to covet, and the same is the drift of all the commandments, for they are all equally impossible to us.”

Jesus says this about God's commandments,
"... if you will enter into life, keep the commandments."
(Matthew 19:17).

Luther says,
“If you are a preacher of grace, then preach a true and not a fictitious grace; if grace is true, you must bear a true and not a fictitious sin. God does not save people who are only fictitious sinners. Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly, for he is victorious over sin, death, and the world. As long as we are here [in this world] we have to sin. This life is not the dwelling place of righteousness, but, as Peter says, we look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells."

Jesus says to two people,
"Sin no more." (John 5:14) (John 8:11).

Jesus says I call sinners to repentance (See Luke 5:32).

Jesus says repent or perish (See Luke 13:3).

Hebrews 5:9 essentially says that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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God is perfect, and I am not playing word games. It means what it means. I am going to ask one last time... your silence is an answer, by the way. Since coming to the Lord, have you ever gotten too mad at somebody, had road rage, pride, gossiped, had lust? Yes or no... it is a simple question.

The fact that I have asked it 5 or 6 times now and you won't answer tells me your answer is "yes" and you are too embarrassed to say it... or recognize that by saying it, you shoot your own point down. Either way, your point is shot down. Until you are perfected, which doesn't happen UNTIL Messiah returns, then you remain imperfect. You're either perfected or your not Jason.... so you say "I am perfect" and you are the ONLY ONE save for Messiah. You say your imperfect until He returns... then the point you have been trying to make through this whole thread, is wrong. It isn't a big, we've all been wrong before.

Forum rules state that we are to keep the discussion to the topic and not make it about the poster (like me or you). But even if that was not the case, I strive not share my personal life with those who are adversarial to the faith or to the plain written Word of God. I confide in those in whom I trust within the faith (who seek my best interest so as to obey God and not to justify sin).

But to give you an answer: Yes, it is possible for believers to take time to mature in their faith and walk uprightly and overcome grievous sin in their life. But they will overcome their sin. God's people are not a defeated people to their own sin. God gives them the victory over their grievous sin in this life. For in the OT, God's people won physical battles by God's power. Today, we win the spiritual battle of overcoming grievous sin in this life.

Anyways, we can see accounts of men of God obeying God's commands both in the Old and New Testament.

5 "There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless."
(Luke 1:5-6).​

3 "And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God." (Revelation 14:3-5).​

Believers are told in Scripture that they can overcome grievous sin (See: 1 Corinthians 10:13, Romans 13:14, Galatians 5:16, Galatians 5:24, 1 Peter 2:12, 1 Peter 4:1-2, 1 Corinthians 15:34, 2 Corinthians 7:1, Philippians 2:15, Romans 6:6-8, Romans 6:16, Hebrews 13:20-21, 1 John 2:5, 1 John 5:19, 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4, 1 Thessalonians 4:7, 1 Thessalonians 5:23). For there are false prophets who cannot cease from sin (See: 2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:14).
 
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redleghunter

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They completely agree with you Jason. What they have done is probably worse than what you have done with His Grace.

They claim grace and say, " Now you must_______________." And if you don't do the works that you MUST do.........you really were not saved.

At least your wide open with your works for salvation. These guys that you argue with(that believe what you do) try to hide behind His Grace with a subtle works program........They are in more trouble than you.
Don't understand the "must do" statements you make. Of course we are to obey our Master Christ Jesus. He saved us from sin and death and the yoke of the world's master Satan.

He is called Lord and Savior for a reason.
 
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redleghunter

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It's called justification by grace through faith and none of the works that necessarily follow are any less a work of God's sovereign will or divine grace. That's the problem, your merit means nothing, the works we do we do by faith in Christ who loved us and gave himself for us.

That's probably we see this:

Revelation 4: NASB
9And when the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, to Him who lives forever and ever, 10the twenty-four elders will fall down before Him who sits on the throne, and will worship Him who lives forever and ever, and will cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11“Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created.”
 
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Ken Rank

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Forum rules state that we are to keep the discussion to the topic and not make it about the poster (like me or you). But even if that was not the case, I strive not share my personal life with those who are adversarial to the faith or to the plain written Word of God. I confide in those in whom I trust within the faith (who seek my best interest so as to obey God and not to justify sin).

But to give you an answer: Yes, it is possible for believers to take time to mature in their faith and walk uprightly and overcome grievous sin in their life. But they will overcome their sin. God's people are not a defeated people to their own sin. God gives them the victory over their grievous sin in this life.
I don't disagree with you but you just made the point I have consistently made and you have taken a position against. Once we come to the Lord in faith we are not perfected, that happens later. We can (CAN meaning able, not willing) sin. We strive for righteousness and seek perfection, even as you define the word. But, we will.... unknowingly and/or unintentionally, fall short from time to time UNTIL we are perfected. That is the only point I have made, I have been consistent, and I am glad you finally acknowledged what is a clear and repeated biblical truth. Shalom.
 
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redleghunter

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Works of faith prove that one's faith is genuine. That is what James is saying here.
I would consider the above axiomatic. A couple of points:

1. It does not mean the works themselves merit or keep our sealed status in the Holy Spirit. It is in deed evidence that a child of wrath is now a child of God as we are being conformed to the image of the Son, which is a promise.

2. I don't see how what we do for the world to see in any way sways God that we have genuine faith. He knows as the Spirit testifies with our spirit we are children of God. So this 'proof' of genuine faith looks to be how we can find each other out and provide us with assurance that we are indeed the workmanship of God, by His Grace and for His Glory.
 
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I would consider the above axiomatic. A couple of points:

1. It does not mean the works themselves merit or keep our sealed status in the Holy Spirit. It is in deed evidence that a child of wrath is now a child of God as we are being conformed to the image of the Son, which is a promise.

2. I don't see how what we do for the world to see in any way sways God that we have genuine faith. He knows as the Spirit testifies with our spirit we are children of God. So this 'proof' of genuine faith looks to be how we can find each other out and provide us with assurance that we are indeed the workmanship of God, by His Grace and for His Glory.

Jesus disagrees with you (See Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:25-28).
James disagrees with you (James 2:17-18, James 2:24).
John disagrees with you (John 3:19-20, 1 John 1:7, 1 John 3:8, 1 John 3:10, 1 John 3:15).
The author of Hebrews disagrees with you (Hebrews 5:9) (Hebrews 10:26) (Hebrews 12:14).
 
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Bible Highlighter

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I don't disagree with you but you just made the point I have consistently made and you have taken a position against. Once we come to the Lord in faith we are not perfected, that happens later. We can (CAN meaning able, not willing) sin. We strive for righteousness and seek perfection, even as you define the word. But, we will.... unknowingly and/or unintentionally, fall short from time to time UNTIL we are perfected. That is the only point I have made, I have been consistent, and I am glad you finally acknowledged what is a clear and repeated biblical truth. Shalom.

Except, there is no such thing as striving for perfection (without actually being perfect) mentioned in the Bible as you say. Jesus simply says be ye perfect as the Father is perfect. I prefer to believe the words of Jesus and not you.
 
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redleghunter

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I would consider the above axiomatic. A couple of points:

1. It does not mean the works themselves merit or keep our sealed status in the Holy Spirit. It is in deed evidence that a child of wrath is now a child of God as we are being conformed to the image of the Son, which is a promise.

2. I don't see how what we do for the world to see in any way sways God that we have genuine faith. He knows as the Spirit testifies with our spirit we are children of God. So this 'proof' of genuine faith looks to be how we can find each other out and provide us with assurance that we are indeed the workmanship of God, by His Grace and for His Glory.

What I wrote above.

Jesus disagrees with you (See Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:25-28).
James disagrees with you (James 2:17-18, James 2:24).
John disagrees with you (John 3:19-20, 1 John 1:7, 1 John 3:8, 1 John 3:10, 1 John 3:15).
The author of Hebrews disagrees with you (Hebrews 5:9) (Hebrews 10:26) (Hebrews 12:14).
In no way disagrees with what I wrote. I even said it was axiomatic. Then explained why.

Obeying Christ and producing the fruit of the Vine Who is Christ is in fact the evidence of a child of God. It does not make one a child of God.
 
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What I wrote above.


In no way disagrees with what I wrote. I even said it was axiomatic. Then explained why.

Obeying Christ and producing the fruit of the Vine Who is Christ is in fact the evidence of a child of God. It does not make one a child of God.

It is not automatic. I already shown you in a post that you have to endure to the end to be saved. God is not going to do the enduring for you. If it was all automatic, then why did God give us commands still in the New Testament? Think. God does not force you to do anything. You have to choose this day in whom you will serve.
 
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redleghunter

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It is not automatic.

Let's try it again. I said what you wrote was axiomatic.

I already shown you in a post that you have to endure to the end to be saved.
Yes the saints will persevere to the end. Why they are called the elect and saints.

God is not going to do the enduring for you.
Who said this was my point. But the counter to that is we are not left as orphans and your theology on sanctification sure does sound a bit deistic in nature.

If it was all automatic, then why did God give us commands still in the New Testament? Think. God does not force you to do anything. You have to choose this day in whom you will serve.
Again I said Axiomatic.
 
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redleghunter

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In other words, you have to cooperate with God and the Sanctification process that he works through believers. God does not force Himself upon anyone. People are not rag dolls being moved about by God. We have to cooperate. This is why you have to obey as a part of the faith. Not God. You. You must obey.
This once again takes us to the very core of the Bondage of the will. Which earlier I asked you how you came about to choose God.
 
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redleghunter

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You can play Greek word games, but the context says be ye perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect. Are you saying the Father is not perfect?
The Father is Perfect. And the standard to enter the Kingdom is Perfection. Yet there is only One Who was and is Perfect. And that is how and why we have the Gospel of Grace.----Jesus Christ.
 
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BBAS 64

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It is obvious that James did not like what James said in James 2.

Luther says this about God's commandments,
“Their only purpose is to show man his impotence to do good and to teach him to despair of himself”

“‘Thou shalt not covet,’ is a commandment which proves us all to be sinners; since it is not in man’s power not to covet, and the same is the drift of all the commandments, for they are all equally impossible to us.”

Jesus says this about God's commandments,
"... if you will enter into life, keep the commandments."
(Matthew 19:17).

Luther says,
“If you are a preacher of grace, then preach a true and not a fictitious grace; if grace is true, you must bear a true and not a fictitious sin. God does not save people who are only fictitious sinners. Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly, for he is victorious over sin, death, and the world. As long as we are here [in this world] we have to sin. This life is not the dwelling place of righteousness, but, as Peter says, we look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells."

Jesus says to two people,
"Sin no more." (John 5:14) (John 8:11).

Jesus says I call sinners to repentance (See Luke 5:32).

Jesus says repent or perish (See Luke 13:3).

Hebrews 5:9 essentially says that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him.


Yup I have the Glass...

upload_2018-12-13_17-53-8.png
 
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mark kennedy

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Jesus disagrees with you (See Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:25-28).
James disagrees with you (James 2:17-18, James 2:24).
John disagrees with you (John 3:19-20, 1 John 1:7, 1 John 3:8, 1 John 3:10, 1 John 3:15).
The author of Hebrews disagrees with you (Hebrews 5:9) (Hebrews 10:26) (Hebrews 12:14).
No Jason you disagree with him, would you give up the quote mining long enough to at least make a statement.if it's possible to fall away from the faith It's impossible to restore you to repentance later, so much for tenporary suspension of salvation pending perfection. If it were possible to be saved by works then Christ died fir nothing, and you know this. Now there is yet another tenant of thegospel you routinely deny, if we say we have no sin, we decieve oursrlves, and the truth is not in us (1 John 1:8). That's the writter of Hebrews, the Apostle Paul and John all unanimously disagreeing with you in the strongest possible terms and your response, is utter silence. Nothing about the cross, the Holy Spirit, just works saves us. You know what I finally have seen enough of this, you know it don't you? That's why you do it, there will always be someone to correct you. I've seen this circular logic used dozens of times and it's unsurprising the arguments you can't answer are mounting.
 
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