How do we make a stronger Christianity?

[Aryeh Jay]

This is why the US government added "in God we trust" to coins during the Cold War.

A bit off topic but a fun fact. In God we Trust was added to paper money during the Cold War. It had first appeared on coins during the Civil War (1864 2 cent piece) and by 1938 it was on all coinage.

 

[Caliban]

Aren't most books of history subject to the same criticism, yet we don't automatically discard them as "circular reasoning."

No, not at all. Why would you think that?

 

[Caliban]

So what's wrong with God's argument from Romans 1:20 that people are without excuse for not believing a Creator exists?

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Rom 1:20

Read post #55. It is circular reasoning.

 

[dlamberth]

Directly related to the OP, I sense that there is a cultural war going on within the Christian world. Am I right about that?

 

[grasping the after wind]

I am not sure, but if God is real, he would know and could easily do it. The fact that he doesn't either means he can't, he isn't there, or doesn't want to.

I vote for he doesn't want to.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Personally, I think it's the sum of all of the things I listed, if not more; I could write a thesis.
But given the themes of humility, forgiveness, the meek inheriting the Earth, and turning the other cheek, I don't think strength is something Christianity (or any religion, really) should be seeking.

And to be honest, I think Christianity is already the dominating influence in the US. What more do you want?

Christianity is in no way the dominating influence in the US. Secular humanism and hedonism are the dominating influences inn the US. The culture is about immediate self gratification and status not about Christian values such as charity and humility.

 

[Caliban]

Directly related to the OP, I sense that there is a cultural war going on within the Christian world. Am I right about that?

Ya, but not as many wars over doctrine in the Christian churches these days.

 

[Caliban]

I vote for he doesn't want to.

Of course. It's a secret society.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Of course. It's a secret society.

I am afraid I don't see your point there. What does that have to do with God not wanting to do something?

 

[grasping the after wind]

Directly related to the OP, I sense that there is a cultural war going on within the Christian world. Am I right about that?

Yes there is the same cultural war going on in the Christian Church as there is in the rest of society. As Christians are no different creatures than the rest of society it is not surprising that this should be the case.

 

[Caliban]

I am afraid I don't see your point there. What does that have to do with God not wanting to do something?

I simply don't think it is true. The mixed messages from believers is often stunning: on one hand, God loves his creation and offers salvation; on the other hand, God doesn't want to reveal himself to most people on the planet. Can you see why this is a hard sell?

 

[awitch]

Christianity is in no way the dominating influence in the US. Secular humanism and hedonism are the dominating influences inn the US. The culture is about immediate self gratification and status not about Christian values such as charity and humility.

Those values are not owned by Christians nor are they often exhibited. Last time I checked the current administration is backed primarily by Christians.

 

[Robban]

I want Christian and non Christians it on this, because in a lot of ways, we're all in this together. A stronger Christianity, properly done, results in a better world for everyone.

So how do we do this? How do we bring about a Christianity that helps everyone out?

And I hate feeling like we need to beg for this, but please show respect in your replies. This thread & this subforum are designed to bring us together. Christians, we bicker too much already, and I hear the in-fighting of Christianity as the most common complaint against & reason to not join our beautiful faith. Non-Christians, you know I am showing an immense amount of respect by allowing you in on these discussions; please reciprocate this respect as you reply.

I wish blessings upon all of you, in whatever manner you understand them; may we all work together to build a better world for all!

I do not understand the question but a chain is no stronger than weakest link.

Find the weak link and empower it.

 

[Albion]

No, not at all. Why would you think that?

Because most of the Bible deals with events from history; and the reliability of those accounts have been challenged many times by skeptics.

The Bible has stood up to those challenges quite well, so it's not as though anyone is saying to believe the Bible even though there's no reason at all to think its contents are true!

 

[cloudyday2]

A bit off topic but a fun fact. In God we Trust was added to paper money during the Cold War. It had first appeared on coins during the Civil War (1864 2 cent piece) and by 1938 it was on all coinage.

Interesting... I didn't realize it was a gradual thing, but I suppose that makes "cents"

 

[Caliban]

Because most of the Bible deals with events from history; and the reliability of those accounts have been challenged many times by skeptics.

The Bible has stood up to those challenges quite well, so it's not as though anyone is saying to believe the Bible even though there's no reason at all to think its contents are true!

What about the fact that large numbers of Hebrews were never in Egypt? What about the fact that the Bible presents the flood narrative as an historical event, but of course it never occurred?

Of course the Bible has historical elements in it, but that doesn't make EVERY claim true. Every ancient texts includes historical elements such as the names of kings, cities, and astrological events; that does not make their supernatural claims true. The Koran contains real names of places and historical figures, but I'm guessing you don't think the supernatural claims of the Koran are true. Why should I think the supernatural claims of the Bible are true given this fact?

 

[Albion]

What about the fact that large numbers of Hebrews were never in Egypt? What about the fact that the Bible presents the flood narrative as an historical event, but of course it never occurred?

I can see that your skepticism may derive from a lack of familiarity with these Bible accounts, but no matter. I am not about to launch into a lengthy debate on every event that's recorded in Scripture.

You said the following:

I find no evidence in the Bible because using the Bible to prove the claims of the Bible is circular reasoning.

...which is indefensible as written. Not that you don't believe it, but because it's certainly not true to say that there is no evidence in the Bible.

Even dedicated skeptics know better than to go off the deep end with an assertion like that.

 

[Caliban]

I can see that your skepticism may derive from a lack of familiarity with these Bible accounts, but no matter. I am not about to launch into a lengthy debate on every event that's recorded in Scripture.

I may have more knowledge of the Bible than you assume--academically referred to as the Hebrew Bible and the Christian New Testament. I have taught adult Sunday School in a conservative Protestant Reformed church, served as Deacon, and taught a systematics theology course on plenary inspiration.

...which is indefensible as written. Not that you don't believe it, but because it's certainly not true to say that there is no evidence in the Bible.

Even dedicated skeptics know better than to go off the deep end with an assertion like that.

The Bible cannot be evidence for the claims of the Bible--that's circular reasoning. Skepticism 101.

 

[grasping the after wind]

I simply don't think it is true. The mixed messages from believers is often stunning: on one hand, God loves his creation and offers salvation; on the other hand, God doesn't want to reveal himself to most people on the planet. Can you see why this is a hard sell?

I did not say God doesn't want to reveal himself . I believe I voted for "God did not want to convince people", not that He doesn't want reveal Himself. Convincing people and revealing oneself are not equivalent things. If I say "Here I am" and you say "No you are not there" , I am not about to waste my time trying to convince you of anything. Why would God take a different approach to that situation than I would?

 

[Albion]

I may have more knowledge of the Bible than you assume--academically referred to as the Hebrew Bible and the Christian New Testament.

Quite possibly so, but for you then to make the assertion you did is hard to appreciate, it's so clearly wrong.

The Bible cannot be evidence for the claims of the Bible--that's circular reasoning. Skepticism 101.

At least as far as the historical facts contained therein, that's not correct to say.

Like any other book of history, the contents are either credible or verifiable or they are not. In this case, the history that the Bible records, much of which was doubted in an earlier time, has been shown to be correct after all.