How do we make a stronger Christianity?

[awitch]

We could stop trying to please the sinners.

Are you not a sinner, too?

Ie: flying LGBT flags on churches.

No one is making them fly LGBTQ flags, nor are they compelled by our will, nor do they fly them to appease us. They do so because they welcome LGBTQ members.

We are spending too much time with non believers, those that have no desire to be Christians and only want to see our ways change.

You can keep your ways and beliefs all you like, but when you expect us to conform and push legislation to enforce it, you better expect us to push back. Especially when it negatively impacts our lives.

Even this forum allows people among us that only wish to sow doubt within the Christian belief.

Would you say I am not welcome here?

 

[awitch]

. (duplicate post)

 

[MehGuy]

Maybe find a way to market the non-spiritual aspects. As an atheist Christianity is a heavy theme in my art. Not only that, but I like to market it towards a more atheist audience. The faith has some cool aesthetics and philosophies. Fun to find ways to package that to a different scene.

Although that may not be the answer you want, from my viewpoint each generation is going to become more and more secular. This is the only real viable future in my opinion.

 

[Arc F1]

Are you not a sinner, too?



No one is making them fly LGBTQ flags, nor are they compelled by our will, nor do they fly them to appease us. They do so because they welcome LGBTQ members.



You can keep your ways and beliefs all you like, but when you expect us to conform and push legislation to enforce it, you better expect us to push back. Especially when it negatively impacts our lives.



Would you say I am not welcome here?

Can two walk together, unless they are agreed?

 

[Arc F1]

I was a Christian for 40 years, I studied theology my entire adult life, and I have a degree in Religious Studies. I keep a hand in the game.

In the days of Noah I'm sure a few were expecting to come aboard at the last minute. What a sad day that had to have been to hear people knocking at the door, unable to find their way in. You know the truth so walk with the Lord. Please don't make lite of his word.

You surely understand the times the Bible was written in and know that it couldn't contain the knowledge and understanding of the world we have today. It wouldn't have served anyone because they wouldn't have understood a word. It's hard to believe that you find no evidence for truth in the Bible.

 

[awitch]

Can two walk together, unless they are agreed?

I come from a pluralistic path. Even among fellow Pagans our beliefs differ widely and we generally are just fine with that. I can walk with people of other religions, interact with them freely, learn about their beliefs, even experience their practices and share the same space. I can learn about science and trust the consensus of the scientific community. I can accept the LGBTQ community's existence. And my faith isn't threatened in the slightest.

How about you?

Also, you dodged my questions about you being a sinner and if I'm welcome here.

 

[Arc F1]

I come from a pluralistic path. Even among fellow Pagans our beliefs differ widely and we generally are just fine with that. I can walk with people of other religions, interact with them freely, learn about their beliefs, even experience their practices and share the same space. I can learn about science and trust the consensus of the scientific community. I can accept the LGBTQ community's existence. And my faith isn't threatened in the slightest.

How about you?

Also, you dodged my questions about you being a sinner and if I'm welcome here.

The Bible tells us "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 2 Corinthians 6:14"

Yes I am a sinner. My reference was to people who continue in sin and do not believe.

This isn't my forum. It's not my rules or my place to say if you are welcome.

 

[Silmarien]

I want Christian and non Christians it on this, because in a lot of ways, we're all in this together. A stronger Christianity, properly done, results in a better world for everyone.

So how do we do this? How do we bring about a Christianity that helps everyone out?

And I hate feeling like we need to beg for this, but please show respect in your replies. This thread & this subforum are designed to bring us together. Christians, we bicker too much already, and I hear the in-fighting of Christianity as the most common complaint against & reason to not join our beautiful faith. Non-Christians, you know I am showing an immense amount of respect by allowing you in on these discussions; please reciprocate this respect as you reply.

I wish blessings upon all of you, in whatever manner you understand them; may we all work together to build a better world for all!

I think we need a better balance between being open-minded and actually judging whether or not something is acceptable. I am not convinced that any denomination actually gets this down properly.

A while back, I was looking up what the Episcopalian position on polyamory was, since I am all about controversial issues, and I think the most insightful comment that I found was that the essence of Episcopalianism was to actually, genuinely listen to what was being said, and then decide whether or not it's compatible with Christianity. To take the other person's humanity seriously enough that you try to understand where they're coming from. It seems to me that conservatives do not do this.

Where liberals go wrong is in skipping the second part: we listen and listen, without actually then taking what is being said, wrestling with it, and comparing it to the Gospel witness. We want to accept people, which is good, but we go too far and then fall into a moral relativism whereby the only judge of what is right and wrong is the Zeitgeist. That's not Christianity.

I think Christianity would be a lot stronger if we all figured out how to better balance mercy with judgment.

 

[awitch]

The Bible tells us "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 2 Corinthians 6:14"

Am I necessarily wicked just because I don't happen to believe the same things you do? Wicked enough to deserve an eternal torture? Can your faith not survive outside of an echo chamber? Does acknowledging that other people have alternate ideas and continue to live a happy and peaceful life cause your beliefs to crumble? Am I that much of a threat to you?

Yes I am a sinner. My reference was to people who continue in sin and do not believe.

Sin is sin, or so I'm told. Unless belief is some kind of free pass to keep sinning.

This isn't my forum. It's not my rules or my place to say if you are welcome.

Come now, that was a very easy question and I'm well aware of what the rules say.
I'm going to interpret your non-response as a "no".
What conclusions might I make when non-Christians aren't welcome in the Outreach section- the place where non-Christians are willingly and sincerely looking at everything Christians have to offer?

 

[Arc F1]

Am I necessarily wicked just because I don't happen to believe the same things you do? Wicked enough to deserve an eternal torture? Can your faith not survive outside of an echo chamber? Does acknowledging that other people have alternate ideas and continue to live a happy and peaceful life cause your beliefs to crumble? Am I that much of a threat to you?



Sin is sin, or so I'm told. Unless belief is some kind of free pass to keep sinning.



Come now, that was a very easy question and I'm well aware of what the rules say.
I'm going to interpret your non-response as a "no".
What conclusions might I make when non-Christians aren't welcome in the Outreach section- the place where non-Christians are willingly and sincerely looking at everything Christians have to offer?

You are not a threat to me personally. The seeds of doubt you sow might lead others down the wrong path. Your judgment will be by God not me.

Through You we will push down our enemies; Through Your name we will trample those who rise up against us.
Psalms 44:5 NKJV

 

[awitch]

You are not a threat to me personally. The seeds of doubt you sow might lead others down the wrong path. Your judgment will be by God not me.

Through You we will push down our enemies; Through Your name we will trample those who rise up against us.
Psalms 44:5 NKJV

You're sending mixed messages by saying I'm not a threat and then IMMEDIATELY referencing your enemies being trampled. I find that an odd choice when it comes to representing your faith.

 

[Arc F1]

You're sending mixed messages by saying I'm not a threat and then IMMEDIATELY referencing your enemies being trampled. I find that an odd choice when it comes to representing your faith.

I stand strong in my faith. I don't know what more I can say. You ask questions that you already know the answer to. You are drawn to Christianity yet you do not hear. Something is holding you back.

 

[awitch]

I stand strong in my faith.

Doesn't sound like it to me.

You ask questions that you already know the answer to.

I don't. That's why I'm asking them. I want Christians to be up front and not tiptoe around with passive aggressive threats.

You are drawn to Christianity yet you do not hear. Something is holding you back.

The presentation that most Christians provide of their god and their behavior doesn't just hold me back, it typically repels me. But I live in a country where most of the population is Christian, where the government is mostly Christian, and where Christians are privileged. It is my best interest to try to understand it.

 

[Albion]

Yet another way to strengthen Christianity might be to humbly consider the possibility that the theology and traditions modern Christians have inherited do not harmonize well with modern morality and science and archaeology and therefore might be wrong...

What emerges might be a new and purer Christianity that no longer requires mental gymnastics to reconcile with our modern understanding of things.

That's a thoughtful post (as usual), but one problem I see is that much of modern morality and "science" is anti-science.

The prevailing social morality is anti-science or "science denying" to use the more popular term, and it's the traditionalist Christians who stand with science when it comes to many doctrinal matters.

If current trends are any indication of where things are headed in the absence of any big effort of the sort the OP is asking for, the churches which have given in to secular "morality" are the ones who have lost membership the most dramatically. For the other Christians to get on board with that approach would be to insure that what Reverand Alex wants will not occur.

 

[Caliban]

It's hard to believe that you find no evidence for truth in the Bible.

I find no evidence in the Bible because using the Bible to prove the claims of the Bible is circular reasoning. I need actual evidence that the supernatural claims of the text are true. I have seen no compelling argument and I think I have heard all of them--even used them myself. I am open to discussing any piece of evidence you think I should reconsider.

 

[Albion]

I find no evidence in the Bible because using the Bible to prove the claims of the Bible is circular reasoning.

Aren't most books of history subject to the same criticism, yet we don't automatically discard them as "circular reasoning."

 

[Arc F1]

I find no evidence in the Bible because using the Bible to prove the claims of the Bible is circular reasoning. I need actual evidence that the supernatural claims of the text are true. I have seen no compelling argument and I think I have heard all of them--even used them myself. I am open to discussing any piece of evidence you think I should reconsider.

You know I can't do that. It's your path to follow. It's like quoting a news article that goes against what another believes, no matter what it will always be fake news because regardless they refuse to believe.

I don't wish you any malice because we can't walk together. Just making conversation.

 

[Caliban]

You know I can't do that. It's your path to follow. It's like quoting a news article that goes against what another believes, no matter what it will always be fake news because regardless they refuse to believe.

I don't wish you any malice because we can't walk together. Just making conversation.

I don't think you are right about being unable to convince me. I have my mind changed all the time on a host of topics. But, every time I change my position, it is because of strong evidence. I am guessing that you believe in God because you think you have good evidence for it. Why do you think I wouldn't be convinced by that evidence?

 

[Arc F1]

I don't think you are right about being unable to convince me. I have my mind changed all the time on a host of topics. But, every time I change my position, it is because of strong evidence. I am guessing that you believe in God because you think you have good evidence for it. Why do you think I wouldn't be convinced by that evidence?

I've got to run. I hope we can pick this up tomorrow. I was just taking a break from mowing. Work waits for no man.

 

[Bobber]

I don't think you are right about being unable to convince me. I have my mind changed all the time on a host of topics. But, every time I change my position, it is because of strong evidence. I am guessing that you believe in God because you think you have good evidence for it. Why do you think I wouldn't be convinced by that evidence?

So what's wrong with God's argument from Romans 1:20 that people are without excuse for not believing a Creator exists?

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Rom 1:20