How do We Know if We are in YHWH's Renewed Covenant?

[BobRyan]

No spirit dwells in a dead body. (James 2:26)

Amen - the New Covenant does not say free will is removed or that a person under the New Covenant may not at some point have 'forgiveness revoked' as Christ warns His followers in Matt 18

 

[Carl Emerson]

Amen - the New Covenant does not say free will is removed or that a person under the New Covenant may not at some point have 'forgiveness revoked' as Christ warns His followers in Matt 18

Not according to Jeremiah 32:40...

40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

 

[For_Faith]

Not according to Jeremiah 32:40...

40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

Carl, if that is true, then why would Paul give warnings in any of his letters? And he does give warnings.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Carl, if that is true, then why would Paul give warnings in any of his letters? And he does give warnings.

Because his audience consisted of Wheat and Tares... Some did depart from fellowship and followed a false gospel. The Elect remained constrained by the Love of Christ.

 

[Clare73]

Carl, if that is true, then why would Paul give warnings in any of his letters? And he does give warnings.

Warnings are one of the ways in which God preserves believers.
True faith heeds his warnings and perseveres, while counterfeit faith does not heed them and eventually falls away.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Not according to Jeremiah 32:40...

40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

Carl, if that is true, then why would Paul give warnings in any of his letters? And he does give warnings.

Because his audience consisted of Wheat and Tares... Some did depart from fellowship and followed a false gospel. The Elect remained constrained by the Love of Christ.

To For Faith I say, if WHAT is true —the scripture that Carl quoted? Can you say more about it, like how you take that verse to mean, if you admit to the truth of it?

To both of you, I want to say it is more than just what Carl answered with —the wheat and the tares. God accomplishes his ends by many means, one of which is fear that comes to those who disobey. The redeemed may fail to obey, and when they do they feel the broken fellowship and may even doubt their salvation. This is a good thing, and motivates them to repent and obey.

 

[Leaf473]

That is a "yes" that the TEN were most certainly included in what Jeremiah and his readers considered to be the Law of God - (as Bible scholars on BOTH sides of the Sabbath discussion affirm) - so they knew that the NEW Cov of Jer 31:31-34 included it.

And it is a "yes" that in the days before Christ (as Is 56:4-7 points out... again) both Jews and gentiles needed animal sacrifices ... and Jeremiah knew it. So did Isaiah according to Is 56:4-7 so they knew that the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 included the fact that before the cross animals were being sacrificed in the ceremonial system.

Right, so when Jeremiah writes My law referring to God's law, he and his readers are thinking of animal sacrifices as well as the ten commandments.

The prophecy then would be that God would write all of these laws on our hearts in the New Covenant, following that train of thought.

 

[Leaf473]

No acceptance is. The willing say ok lead oh God and we will follow.

Yes, acceptance is key in terms of how we live.

But as far as having a discussion goes, definitions can be very important.

 

[HIM]

Yes, acceptance is key in terms of how we live.

But as far as having a discussion goes, definitions can be very important.

That isn't what is going on though.

 

[HIM]

Right, so when Jeremiah writes My law referring to God's law, he and his readers are thinking of animal sacrifices as well as the ten commandments.

The prophecy then would be that God would write all of these laws on our hearts in the New Covenant, following that train of thought.

No. Do you know why?

 

[HIM]

Constantly looking for loop holes only gets us further from the truth

 

[Carl Emerson]

Constantly looking for loop holes only gets us further from the truth

If you want everybody in the Body of Christ to return to being under the Law you are right.

If you want everybody in the Body of Christ to Walk in the Spirit you are wrong.

 

[HIM]

If you want everybody in the Body of Christ to return to being under the Law you are right.

If you want everybody in the Body of Christ to Walk in the Spirit you are wrong.

There is no one under the law if the law is in their hearts. They have become that which they beheld.

 

[Guojing]

Why do you exclude gentiles being part of the true Israel through being spiritual descendants of Abraham, in Christ - Children of the Promise ???

Well for one thing:

The Body of Christ has salvation now (Ephesians 1:7)

True Israel will only receive salvation in the future when Jesus returns for them (Acts 3:19-21, 1 Peter 1:4-9).

Do you prefer salvation now, or in the future?

 

[Guojing]

whom it seems the children of faith the true children of Abraham inherit ALL the promises made to Abraham. Notice promises plural not singular.

Galatians 3:16
Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ.

If you truly believe that is the correct interpretation, then one obvious question to you is, when do you think we will inherit the land promise to Abraham in Genesis 17?

 

[Guojing]

This is very interesting and something I recently heard from a friend.

When I read Galatians 1 it is clear Paul is saying there is only one gospel and anything else is FALSE, it seems that another FALSE gospel had come about and he was warning them about it. He is actually warning us of the very thing you ae trying to convince us of. It is very plain and simple to see this.
IMO respectively of course.

I would also like to add you say there is one gospel for the gentiles they are receiving from Paul, Paul preached that gospel to the Jews as well.

But I have heard your view before and would love to know what scripture supports it.

Galatians 1:6-9
No Other Gospel
6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently, some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!


Thanks

Paul is writing to gentiles in the Body of Christ, chapters 1 and 2

Let's really read the words carefully to understand what Paul is really saying.

Galatians 1:8-9

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Paul is actually saying if the gentiles are preached another gospel other than the one what they are receiving from Paul, let the preacher be accused.

Can you see you are misinterpreting it to mean "Paul also said if anyone preach any other Gospel, let him be accursed"?

 

[Guojing]

Hi Guojing. If you're in Singapore it looks like we're about 12 hours apart. After I wrote what I did to DaveM, I was considering whether or not to take you up on your post #79 to see where we would take this, but it was late here when I saw it.

So, you're saying that, if I agree that those who agree with Paul's standard of thinking about Christ are the Israel of God, then I must agree that James and the elders told Paul that there are many ten thousands among the Jews who had believed, and all are being "zealots/loyalists of the law" who were informed that Paul is teaching all the Jews (literally & most simply "according to the nations") apostasy/defection from Moses, by saying not to circumcise the children and not to walk [in] the customs?

Where would you like to go to see what Paul was actually teaching, other than to the Gal6 verses I posted? He doesn't get to explain too much in Acts 21-22 before some Jews were trying to kill him.

Thanks.

Let's go back to what Paul was really saying in Galatians regarding circumcision

Galatians 5
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

And that verse just before Galatians 6:15, which was just before Galatians 6:16 that you used.

15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

So my point to you was, if those verses I highlight are taken literally, you will have to conclude that these instructions apply to the Israel of God as well, since you used the NIV translation in the next verse.

So if I am one of those Jewish believers described in Acts 21:20-21, who was brought up by teachers teaching me Genesis 17:14, I am correct in saying that Paul is teaching me, since I am obviously the Israel of God, that, if I were to circumcise my kid,

1. Christ shall profit him nothing.
2. Christ is become of no effect unto him

Would that be a reasonable conclusion?

 

[Guojing]

You appear to be saying you are not under the New Covenant - is that right??

That will depend on whether we in the Body of Christ can be considered the House of Israel, which is what I am discussing with the TS.

 

[Guojing]

There is no room there for "this only applies if you are talking about the gentile gospel because there is another gospel a Jewish one that is for Jewish Christians like me... that one is not for you" in Gal 1.

Have you read Galatians 2:7-9 in the KJV?

If not, try reading it. Resist the temptation to add anything beyond what it literally says, and ask yourself a simple question.

"How many gospels are listed in that passage"?

 

[GDL]

Let's go back to what Paul was really saying in Galatians regarding circumcision

Galatians 5
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

And that verse just before Galatians 6:15, which was just before Galatians 6:16 that you used.

15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

So my point to you was, if those verses I highlight are taken literally, you will have to conclude that these instructions apply to the Israel of God as well, since you used the NIV translation in the next verse.

So if I am one of those Jewish believers described in Acts 21:20-21, who was brought up by teachers teaching me Genesis 17:14, I am correct in saying that Paul is teaching me, since I am obviously the Israel of God, that, if I were to circumcise my kid,

1. Christ shall profit him nothing.
2. Christ is become of no effect unto him

Would that be a reasonable conclusion?

Could be reasonable. Could also be the garbage in, garbage out process. IOW, how are you reading the Gal5 verses? Do you think the KJV "if ye be circumcised" means "if you're a Jewish male" whose parents circumcised their kid?

Is Paul telling Jews here to not circumcise their children? Is there any such commandment in the NC?