How do We Know if We are in YHWH's Renewed Covenant?

[HARK!]

Interesting that you love using Matthew 15:24, and yet you don't apply that verse to understand that Jesus was not talking about gentiles in the Body of Christ, during his first coming.

There are no Gentiles in the body of Messiah. Once the Goyim come to Messiah; they are part of Yashar El.

 

[GDL]

I guess I would discuss these topics & verses for a start:

God's Israel - The New Creation:

NET Galatians 6:14-18 But may I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 For neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything; the only thing that matters is a new creation! 16 And all who will behave in accordance with this rule, peace and mercy be on them, and on the Israel of God. 17 From now on let no one cause me trouble, for I bear the marks of Jesus on my body. 18 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers and sisters. Amen.​

God's Israel:

Some language details from the NET Bible notes so it's not from me, although I would have said something very similar (My highlights):

NET Notes (Gal 6:16)

29 tn The same Greek verb, στοιχέω (stoicheo), occurs in Gal 5:25.
30 tn The word "and" (καί) can be interpreted in two ways: (1) It could be rendered as "also" which would indicate that two distinct groups are in view, namely "all who will behave in accordance with this rule" and "the Israel of God." Or (2) it could be rendered "even," which would indicate that "all who behave in accordance with this rule" are "the Israel of God." In other words, in this latter view, "even" = "that is."

The NIV picks this up:

NIV Galatians 6:16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule-- to the Israel of God.​

The New Creation:

NET 2 Corinthians 5:17 So then, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; what is old has passed away– look, what is new has come!​

Who is a Jew:

NKJ Romans 2:26-29 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Note the play on words: Jew - whose praise is from God

The name Jew: Summary
Meaning
Praiser
Etymology
From the verb ידה (yada), to praise.
Related names
• Via ידה (yada): Abihud, Abiud, Ahihud, Ammihud, Baale-judah, Ehud, Eliud, Hod, Hodaviah, Hodiah, Ishhod, Jaddai, Jedaiah, Jeduthun, Jehudi, Jehudijah, Judah, Judas, Jude, Judea, Judith, Ohad, Tidal, Vaniah, Yaudi​

Jew | The amazing name Jew: meaning and etymology (abarim-publications.com)​

​

One Body:

NKJ Ephesians 4:4-6 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

NKJ Colossians 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful.​

I'd also look at all the grafting in discussion in Romans 11. And the fact that the Abrahamic Covenant pertains to Abraham, His Seed, and all the nations. It's now a matter of who are God's Children, the New Creation, in one Body, with one Lord, and one God & Father, under the one New Covenant in Abraham's Seed.

 

[Leaf473]

(CLV) Jer 31:31
Behold, the days are coming, averring is Yahweh, when I will contract a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

(CLV) Jer 31:32
Not like the covenant which I contracted with their fathers in the day I held fast onto their hand to bring them forth from the land of Egypt, which covenant of Mine they themselves annulled while I was Possessor over them, averring is Yahweh.

(CLV) Jer 31:33
For this is the covenant which I shall contract with the house of Israel after those days, averring is Yahweh: I will put My law within them, And I shall write it on their heart; I will become their Elohim, And they shall become My people.

This is the covenant. Would YHWH go back on his word, and neglect to write his Torah on the hearts of his people? Can we say that we are in this renewed covenant; if his Torah is not written on our hearts?

This is what popped into my mind:
This is how everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
John 13 ISV

I guess I see it as rather than look in your heart and see if Torah is written there,

instead,

if you are in the new covenant, look in your heart and you will see that what is written there is God's ways, his Torah.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

(CLV) Jer 31:31
Behold, the days are coming, averring is Yahweh, when I will contract a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

(CLV) Jer 31:32
Not like the covenant which I contracted with their fathers in the day I held fast onto their hand to bring them forth from the land of Egypt, which covenant of Mine they themselves annulled while I was Possessor over them, averring is Yahweh.

(CLV) Jer 31:33
For this is the covenant which I shall contract with the house of Israel after those days, averring is Yahweh: I will put My law within them, And I shall write it on their heart; I will become their Elohim, And they shall become My people.

This is the covenant. Would YHWH go back on his word, and neglect to write his Torah on the hearts of his people? Can we say that we are in this renewed covenant; if his Torah is not written on our hearts?

And how is it written in the heart of the believer? Through His Holy Spirit. This is the New Covenant His Holy Spirit dwelling in the beliver. The Spirit regenerates the true beliver and brings them into the Body of Christ. The letter condemns the Spirit renews. Blessings.
2 Corinthians
And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

 

[GDL]

(CLV) Jer 31:31
Behold, the days are coming, averring is Yahweh, when I will contract a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

(CLV) Jer 31:32
Not like the covenant which I contracted with their fathers in the day I held fast onto their hand to bring them forth from the land of Egypt, which covenant of Mine they themselves annulled while I was Possessor over them, averring is Yahweh.

(CLV) Jer 31:33
For this is the covenant which I shall contract with the house of Israel after those days, averring is Yahweh: I will put My law within them, And I shall write it on their heart; I will become their Elohim, And they shall become My people.

This is the covenant. Would YHWH go back on his word, and neglect to write his Torah on the hearts of his people? Can we say that we are in this renewed covenant; if his Torah is not written on our hearts?

Answer to first question: No.

Question about the second question: Is His Torah/Instruction downloaded all at once, or being written over time in an enduring believer?

BTW, I hope you're OK with me jumping in the middle of you & Guojing with Post #43.

 

[BobRyan]

The Law of Christ also known as the Law of the Spirit is written in the Hearts of New covenant believers - not 'the Ten' but the New Commandment to Love as Jesus said.

I don't know of any Bible scholars that read Jer 31:31-34 and claim that neither Jeremiah nor his readers suspected that the "Law of God" mentioned in Jer 31 included the TEN spoken directly by God and kept as the one and only LAW of God inside the ark of the Covenant.

No wonder all Bible scholars in all major Christian denominations affirm the TEN as being included in the moral law of God.

No wonder when Jesus said "KEEP the Commandments" and is then asked "WHICH ones?" - He responds from THE TEN in Matt 19.

No wonder when Paul tells the gentile church in Ephesus about the importance of families and children honoring parents - he emphasizes the order and sequence of the 5th commandment IN THE TEN in Eph 6:2

 

[BobRyan]

Would YHWH go back on his word

No.

, and neglect to write his Torah on the hearts of his people?

No.

And even in the NT we have this ... Rom 2:
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a violator of the Law, your circumcision has turned into uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will his uncircumcision not be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a violator of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from people, but from God.

So those trying to disconnect themselves from that are simply not thinking it through with all the details in mind.

Can we say that we are in this renewed covenant; if his Torah is not written on our hearts?

Many will say that but have a redefined idea about what is or is not the Law of God in Jeremiah's statement

 

[Leaf473]

No.



No.

And even in the NT we have this ... Rom 2:
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a violator of the Law, your circumcision has turned into uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will his uncircumcision not be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a violator of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from people, but from God.

So those trying to disconnect themselves from that are simply not thinking it through with all the details in mind.



Many will say that but have a redefined idea about what is or is not the Law of God in Jeremiah's statement

I think the issue of what is the true definition of the law of God for us today is key.

Jeremiah and his readers probably would have thought that laws about animal sacrifices were the law of God. But only a few Christians think that today.

 

[BobRyan]

I think the issue of what is the true definition of the law of God for us today is key.

Exegesis demands that when rendering the correct meaning of the New Covenant text Jer 31:31-34 where the New Covenant is defined - that we keep in mind "context" so as to avoid "pretext". We have to accept that Jeremiah and his readers knew full well that the moral law of God included the TEN so when they reference God's Law written on the heart and mind there is no possibility of our eisegeting "and of course Jeremiah would never have thought the Law spoken by God from Sinai was the Law of God.. nor would his readers understood the term to have that idea in it".

And when the Jer 31 NEW COVENANT is repeated verbatim in Heb 8 Paul does not qualify/edit it with "of course NOT THAT Law of God" or "of course NOT THAT New Covenant"

 

[eleos1954]

Yes - His Law as in the Law of the Spirit of life.

Not the Law of sin and death.

We are freed from the curse of the Law recorded in Deut 28.

The curse of the Law is death .... not the law itself ... the Law (the 10) is good, just and holy .... nothing wrong with it and has not been done away with.

The Law leads us to Christ and after one receives Him .... He helps us to keep the Law ... it is His work in the believer.

The Law is alive and well.

 

[DamianWarS]

YHWH said that he would write his Torah on our hearts. The ten commandments are part of his Torah.

I'll take his word over yours. Thanks.

So is the forbiding of mixing grains. Is that written in your heart?

 

[HARK!]

So is the forbiding of mixing grains. Is that written in your heart?

Do you see a speck in my eye?

 

[Leaf473]

Exegesis demands that when rendering the correct meaning of the New Covenant text Jer 31:31-34 where the New Covenant is defined - that we keep in mind "context" so as to avoid "pretext". We have to accept that Jeremiah and his readers knew full well that the moral law of God included the TEN so when they reference God's Law written on the heart and mind there is no possibility of our eisegeting "and of course Jeremiah would never have thought the Law spoken by God from Sinai was the Law of God.. nor would his readers understood the term to have that idea in it".

And when the Jer 31 NEW COVENANT is repeated verbatim in Heb 8 Paul does not qualify/edit it with "of course NOT THAT Law of God" or "of course NOT THAT New Covenant"

Okay... And following that train of thought, Jeremiah and his readers would have thought that the animal sacrifice laws were also God's laws, wouldn't they?

 

[Blade]

I was going to dive in but ..so many things here taken out of context. Then I can only guess not knowing some "words" are still being debated about there true meaning. Yet here its as if there is no debate. Then talking to other family members as if your personal view of Gods word is the only correct one? If not forgive me it for me clearly comes across that way.

Yet all this is mute when "Those are Paul's words, not YHWH's;". For me it was the sweet sweet holy Spirit that was talking through Paul same exactly holy Spirit that spoke through Moshe, Moishe, Moses (incase one gets stuck on names). It does come in handy no offense to believe like this for then you can just toss out things since it was not God just man talking. It is odd unless one does not believe we are one, Christ in the Father the Father in Christ and Christ in us .. then (Luke 11:13) the sweet sweet holy Spirit in us forever. Its odd some can not just pray and ask Him what He meant in His word.

So many things here I disagree on and with that I can say I can be wrong since as its written I do not have the right to tell anyone what Gods word really says. This could cause some to fall stumble GOD FORBID. Its ok to disagree and be wrong only He is right. If I offended forgive me

 

[HARK!]

I was going to dive in but ..so many things here taken out of context. Then I can only guess not knowing some "words" are still being debated about there true meaning. Yet here its as if there is no debate. Then talking to other family members as if your personal view of Gods word is the only correct one? If not forgive me it for me clearly comes across that way.

Yet all this is mute when "Those are Paul's words, not YHWH's;". For me it was the sweet sweet holy Spirit that was talking through Paul same exactly holy Spirit that spoke through Moshe, Moishe, Moses (incase one gets stuck on names). It does come in handy no offense to believe like this for then you can just toss out things since it was not God just man talking. It is odd unless one does not believe we are one, Christ in the Father the Father in Christ and Christ in us .. then (Luke 11:13) the sweet sweet holy Spirit in us forever. Its odd some can not just pray and ask Him what He meant in His word.

So many things here I disagree on and with that I can say I can be wrong since as its written I do not have the right to tell anyone what Gods word really says. This could cause some to fall stumble GOD FORBID. Its ok to disagree and be wrong only He is right. If I offended forgive me

Sorry if you were offended. I opened this thread with the clear words of YHWH himself. If find it offensive when someone responds with their misunderstanding of Paul's letters, as if it somehow supercedes the words of YHWH himself. I'll be clear. I don't believe that Paul is speaking against the most high. I believe that some are misunderstanding Paul; but if there is no misunderstanding; and Paul is contradicting YHWH; then Paul's words should be rejected. So whether or not there is any misunderstanding, on any point, by any man, whether it be in your Bible or not; if it doesn't line up with what YHWH says; then it should be rejected.

Paul taught almost exclusively from the TaNaK. He cited the TaNaK to vet his teachings. Paul is difficult to understand; and we don't need Paul to teach us when YHWH's word is perfectly clear.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Sorry if you were offended. I opened this thread with the clear words of YHWH himself. If find it offensive when someone responds with their misunderstanding of Paul's letters, as if it somehow supercedes the words of YHWH himself. I'll be clear. I don't believe that Paul is speaking against the most high. I believe that some are misunderstanding Paul; but if there is no misunderstanding; and Paul is contradicting YHWH; then Paul's words should be rejected. So whether or not there is any misunderstanding, on any point, by any man, whether it be in your Bible or not; if it doesn't line up with what YHWH says; then it should be rejected.

Paul taught almost exclusively from the TaNaK. He cited the TaNaK to vet his teachings. Paul is difficult to understand; and we don't need Paul to teach us when YHWH's word is perfectly clear.

In this you introduce levels of inspiration in Scripture.

Is the scripture not inspired by the One Spirit ?

 

[Soyeong]

The Law of Christ also known as the Law of the Spirit is written in the Hearts of New covenant believers - not 'the Ten' but the New Commandment to Love as Jesus said.

The Father is not in disagreement with Himself about which laws we should follow, so the Law of Christ is the same as the Law of the Spirit and the Law of the Father, which was given to Moses, and which is what the New Covenant involves God putting in our minds and writing on our hearts. Jesus expressed his love through his obedience to the Law of Moses, so that is the way that we are to love as he loved, which is inclusive but is not limited to of the Ten Commandments.

Yes - His Law as in the Law of the Spirit of life.

Not the Law of sin and death.

We are freed from the curse of the Law recorded in Deut 28.

In Romans 7:25-8:2, Paul contrasted the Law of God with the law of sin and contrasted the Law of the Spirit of Life with the Law of sin and death, Spirit is God, and the Mosaic Law is the Law of God, so he straightforwardly equated the Law of the Spirit of Life with the Mosaic Law. Being set free from the curse of living in disobedience to the Mosaic Law is being set free to enjoy the blessing of living in obedience to the Mosaic Law in Deuteronomy 28.

 

[DaveM]

Who is a Jew:

I see a lot of people who say Israel is Israel and the church is the church and they are separate.

So my question is who is Israel exactly according to the bible?

 

[Soyeong]

It is clear that our friend Hark does not credit the New Testament as inspired by the Holy Spirit and dismisses the inspired words of Paul.

It is contradictory for someone to think that Paul was inspired by the Holy Spirit and to think that what he said was not in complete agreement with everything that God has said. Those who interpret what Paul said as not being in complete agreement with everything that God has said are treating him as though what he said was not inspired by the Holy Spirit. The bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man, so we should be quicker to disregard everything that Paul had said than to disregard anything that God has said, though the reality is that Paul was a servant of God who was in complete agreement with everything that God has said.

 

[For_Faith]

In this you introduce levels of inspiration in Scripture.

Is the scripture not inspired by the One Spirit ?

Question:
Who is the witness that the Serpent said: Ye shall not surely die (Genesis 3:4) (1 John 5:7)