How did the universe come into existence?

[Dave Ellis]

Is it possible that a Superior Being created the eye for each animal just the way it is, without evolving from something simpler. Since you are willing to say that the intermediary eyes in the video is good enough for what they need, so they need not evolve anymore, can there be any room for creation for an exact purpose rather than evolution?

I don't know if it's possible or not either way. We have no evidence showing it's possible or impossible for a god to exist. As such, what that hypothetical being could do is anyone's guess, assuming it's even possible one exists.

If there is no room for a Superior Being and creation, then you must take any animal and show me the evidence of how their eye evolved from simple to more complex. Let's take the squid. They have a superior eye. What evidence do you have that they once had an inferior eye.

Your speculation and evolutionary theory is irrevelent, I want hard fast evidence. This must be a simple task because just above you say we have mountains of evidence. We know it happened, and how it happened. So tell me, with evidence in hand, how it happened with the squid, or any other animal of your choosing. Start at the beginning and bring us through to today. The eye is a good test case. Good luck.

For one, we can see the species they branched off from, and they don't have eyes that are as good as squid eyes. So, at some point the squids developed better eyes than their ancestor species. We can confirm a common ancestor with those other species using genetics.

 

[Dave Ellis]

That is your argument, read a textbook? You might as well read a comic book, it is so short of evidence and logic.

That's simple reality, check out human taxonomy. Humans are one of the great ape species.

 

[Dave Ellis]

It is interesting to try to reconcile the bible with science. We do not tailor the bible to say what modern day scientists have discovered, mainly because what they discover today will be completely overturned tommorrow and replaced with another theory.

Nonsense. If the bible had all of this amazing wisdom, then we'd have known all of these things thousands of years ago when the scriptures were written. Instead what we have is scientists working hard to discover how the actual world works, then once a major discovery is made you have some christian find a verse that roughly sounds somewhat like the discovery, and claiming the bible knew about it all along.

But one day religion and science will fit together like a hand in the glove. Both sides will know the full truth and then you and I will shake hands and be friends.

If it is all natural, I will have to confess to you, and if it is God-centered you will have to confess to God and repent, and move toward Him.

Then why does science continually show many religious beliefs to be in error? The only way they'll ever fit together like a glove is to abandon most tenets of a religion and re-write the others to conform with science.

 

[Peter1000]

That's it. i'm convinced.

I'm sensing some more sarcasm.

 

[Peter1000]

That's simple reality, check out human taxonomy. Humans are one of the great ape species.

Are great apes 'homo sapiens'. I could be wrong, but I thought humans are a species of 'homo sapien', and apes are a species of something else? Doesn't matter though, the idea that humans evolved from a great ape or a common ancestor of ape and human is only heresay. Remember the missing link problem, I don't think that has been factually linked. Let me know if you know differently.

 

[Peter1000]

Nonsense. If the bible had all of this amazing wisdom, then we'd have known all of these things thousands of years ago when the scriptures were written. Instead what we have is scientists working hard to discover how the actual world works, then once a major discovery is made you have some christian find a verse that roughly sounds somewhat like the discovery, and claiming the bible knew about it all along.



Then why does science continually show many religious beliefs to be in error? The only way they'll ever fit together like a glove is to abandon most tenets of a religion and re-write the others to conform with science.

I just said it is interesting to 'try' to reconcile the bible to scientific discovery. If we can fine, if we can't fine. It is of little consequence.

Most scientists are trying their hardest to mold a godless, natural path from nothing to living universe and life on earth. If they get to tell the truth, good, if they don't, that's good too, as long as the goal is moving to accomplish a godless, natural path to explain these things. It is not always the truth, but it does not matter as long as the goal is kept in sight.

Don't talk to me about mounds of evidence. You have some evidence with lots of massive holes in it. So do not talk to me about evidence from the bible until you come up with your evidence for the evolution of the squid eye or any other animal eye from the beginning. Again, good luck.

 

[Peter1000]

Dave Ellis says:

For one, we can see the species they branched off from, and they don't have eyes that are as good as squid eyes.

For another thing, this does not sound like a mound of evidence, it sounds like scientific smoke. But let's see.
Name the species that the squid branched off of, that didn't have eyes as good as squid eyes?

So, at some point the squids developed better eyes than their ancestor species.

Show me the video trail or fossil trail of these ancestors and their simple to complex eye evolution????

We can confirm a common ancestor with those other species using genetics.

OK, use genetics and confirm the common ancestor of the squid and what their simpler eyes looked like?????

 

[Aman777]

You haven't refuted anything I've said.

Likewise, you haven't given me anything to refute. As the old saying goes, that which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Once you actually provide some evidence, then I'll have something to accept or refute.

I posted God's Holy Word which you don't seem to accept as evidence.
I also posted scientific evidence which you ignored. www.smithsonianmag.com/.../behold-luca-last-universal-common-ancestor-life-earth-...
I have also posted historic evidence which you cannot refute. Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE

I'm sorry you don't accept any evidence unless it agrees with your own personal opinion. I don't believe that you can refute God, Science and History, but believe what you will. Everyone can see your Bluff. God Bless you

 

[Aman777]

I am unaware of Adam living before the big bang of our cosmos, until the 6th day when he and Eve were born again Spiritually. Does the bible actually say the Adam live for more than 10 Billion years before the last universal common ancestor appeared in the water on planet earth (Genesis 5:1-2???) Genesis 5:1-2 talk about the generations of Adam and that he lived about 800 years. Not sure what you are saying here?

Genesis 2:4-7 tells us that man (Heb-Adam) was made from the dust of the ground by Lord God/Jesus BEFORE the plants, herbs and rain. Genesis 2:8-9 confirms this by showing that Trees were made AFTER Adam was made and Trees also grew on the 3rd Day. Gen 1:12

Genesis 2:4 in speaking of the Day Adam was made, ALSO speaks of other HeavenS which were made on the 3rd Day. The FIRST Heaven (Adam's world) was made on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:8 That makes at least 3 Heavens. Adam and Eve lived on the first Heaven and NEVER took a step on the present Earth. They lived and died on the first world, which was totally destroyed in the flood. 2Pet3:6

Adam was made from dust on the 3rd Day Gen 2:7 and Eve was NOT made from Adam's rib until the present 6th Day. Gen 2:22 BOTH A&E were "created in God's Image" or born again Spiritually in Christ AFTER Cain killed Abel. Gen 5:1-2 Adam (Heb-mankind) lived for 930 years AFTER he and Eve were born again Spiritually. Genesis 5:5.

God had but 7 Days/Ages and we live today at Gen 1:27 because God is STILL creating Adam (mankind) in Christ Spiritually. We will NOT advance to the prophecy of Gen 1:28-31 until AFTER Jesus returns at Armageddon. The present 6th Day, the Day of Salvation, will NOT end until the complete "host" of Heaven is safely present in the 3rd Heaven.

Gen 2:1 ¶ Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, (Heb-brought to perfection) and ALL the host of them.

At the end of the present 6th Day, when the Creation has been brought to perfection and filled with ALL of it's host, which includes the LAST sinner to be created in Christ, God will rest or cease to create, because His creation has finally been made perfect, which is the way all of God's work ends.

BTW, Since Adam was made BEFORE the big bang of our cosmos and lived until some 12k years ago, he was formed more than 13.8 Billion years ago, in man's time. Adam was made as Christians will be made in Heaven where a Billion years in a perfect body, is the same for ALL of God's children. God Bless you

 

[Aman777]

We (humans?) inherited the DNA of the great apes from the sons of God (prehistoric people). So are you saying that we humans evolved from the great apes?????

No, since Adam, the first Human, was made some 10 Billion years BEFORE the last universal common ancestor of prehistoric people, was created by the Trinity and brought forht from the water on the 5th Day Gen 1:21 or 3.77 Billion years ago, in man's time. Adam was FIRST made and that's WHY we will have dominion or rule over Apes and Angels after Jesus returns. 1Co 6:3 Amen?

 

[Aman777]

That's simple reality, check out human taxonomy. Humans are one of the great ape species.

According to the changeable consensus of godless men who reject God's Truth of the Creation as shown in Genesis. God's taxonomy is NOT changeable. Amen?

 

[Aman777]

Are great apes 'homo sapiens'. I could be wrong, but I thought humans are a species of 'homo sapien', and apes are a species of something else? Doesn't matter though, the idea that humans evolved from a great ape or a common ancestor of ape and human is only heresay. Remember the missing link problem, I don't think that has been factually linked. Let me know if you know differently.

Noah is the missing link between the sons of God (prehistoric people) and Humans since he brought Adam's descendants (Humans) to this Earth of prehistoric people. Adam was made with an intelligence like God's Gen 3:22. If Noah, a direct descendant of Adam had NOT come to planet Earth, people would still be hunting for a hole to sleep in tonight. The sons of God AND Adam's descendants CAN produce children with each other.

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God (prehistoric man) came in unto the daughters of men, (Heb-Adam) and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Today's Humans are the giants intellectually since our intelligence is higher than ANY other living creature on Earth. God Bless you

 

[Ed1wolf]

Doesn't agree with the first 3 verses which shows that the "earth" was without form and empty/void. It had NO shape, No form, since there was No God in the physical world YET.

The Hebrew terms without form and empty, means without order and filling of lifeforms and ecosystems which came later. It doesn't mean that it didn't exist as the earth. Your second statement is contradicted by dozens of verses that teach that God has always existed in the physical world and the non physical world. He is ETERNAL and immanent (which means He can exist in anything).

am: Where did the Water come from? which was upon the face of the deep? What is the darkness? What is the light?

God created the water and science has confirmed that the earth at one time very early in its history was covered in water. The Holy Spirit hovered over the face of the deep (ocean). The darkness was caused by the clouds of dust and debris that surrounded the early earth, which is has also been confirmed by science. The light is when God cleared some of the dust and debris and the sun shone through and the day/night daily cycle began.

am: What Albert Einstein discovered was that Energy and Mass are two sides of the SAME coin. God lives in a world of Light/Energy and before the first Day, He changed some of that Energy in His world, into air, dust, and water, in the physical world, which could be used to build everything which exists.

No, energy did not exist prior to the universe, God created energy when He created the universe. Science has confirmed this. According to Hebrews 11:3 God created the universe out of things that cannot be seen by humans or detected by them.

ed: *** No, it is plainly referring to the time when the surface of the earth was destroyed by deluge or flood. This was Noahs flood. And obviously it did not mean that the earth was completely destroyed otherwise they never would have landed on Ararat.

It was Adam's firmament/heaven which perished, which is Greek means utterly destroyed, totally. God told Noah He was going to destroy the violent men of Adam's Earth "with the Earth" Gen 6:13

There is no biblical or scientific evidence that such a thing ever existed.

ed:*** By saying "with the earth" He is referring to using the earth and the waters on it as a weapon to destroy all the evil people on the earth. No respected Biblical scholar interprets these verses in the way you do.

am: That's because they study the views of ancient religious men instead of reading the verses for what they actually say. Only the Christians of the last days, with the increased knowledge of our time can possibly understand. Dan 12:4 The same men whose views you seem to follow later called for the crucifixion of Jesus. Jhn 19:6

These great Christian Biblical scholars ARE the Christians of the last days. They study the linguistic and historical context in the original greek and Hebrew.

ed: *** No, the reference to earth in verse 1:10 is referring to dirt or dry land, IOW the continents.

am: Not so, since the mountains on Adam's flat Earth were covered when the flood reached a depth of 15 cubits or 22.5 feet. Gen 7:20 Adam's Earth had only 4 Rivers which all had their origin in the Garden. Gen 2:10 Adam's world had NO continents and it was "clean dissolved" in the flood. Isa 24:19 You have confused the world/universe, which is now, with Adam's world, the world/firmament that THEN WAS. 2Pet3:6-7

There is no evidence for a flat earth ever existing. Where does the bible say the earth was flat? Isaiah 24 is referring to Judgement Day, not creation. It has nothing to do with two earths.

ed: *** There was and is only one earth as science has confirmed and as the Bible teaches. We don't know exactly what the Ark landed in. We also don't know if it was damaged when it landed or if it was still intact. Noah could have lived in it whether it was broken or not given how large it was.

am: The Ark was as big as an ocean liner, 450 ft long, 75 feet wide, and 3 stories tall and it appeared in Lake Van Turkey on the SAME 150th day as it was above the highest mountains on Adam's world, Gen 7:24 and Gen 8:4. Noah refused to leave the Ark and stayed for 2 months AFTER he knew the ground was completely dry. Gen 8:14 He refused to come out until God promised to never again "destroy the earth" in a flood. Gen 9:11

Again nothing in the bible says that there were two worlds one flat and one round. There was only one world. Where does it say that Noah refused to come out until God promised that? According Gen. 8:16 God told Noah to leave the ark BEFORE He made the promise with the rainbow. So it appears your interpretation is incorrect.

 

[Peter1000]

Genesis 2:4-7 tells us that man (Heb-Adam) was made from the dust of the ground by Lord God/Jesus BEFORE the plants, herbs and rain. Genesis 2:8-9 confirms this by showing that Trees were made AFTER Adam was made and Trees also grew on the 3rd Day. Gen 1:12

Genesis 2:4 in speaking of the Day Adam was made, ALSO speaks of other HeavenS which were made on the 3rd Day. The FIRST Heaven (Adam's world) was made on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:8 That makes at least 3 Heavens. Adam and Eve lived on the first Heaven and NEVER took a step on the present Earth. They lived and died on the first world, which was totally destroyed in the flood. 2Pet3:6

Adam was made from dust on the 3rd Day Gen 2:7 and Eve was NOT made from Adam's rib until the present 6th Day. Gen 2:22 BOTH A&E were "created in God's Image" or born again Spiritually in Christ AFTER Cain killed Abel. Gen 5:1-2 Adam (Heb-mankind) lived for 930 years AFTER he and Eve were born again Spiritually. Genesis 5:5.

God had but 7 Days/Ages and we live today at Gen 1:27 because God is STILL creating Adam (mankind) in Christ Spiritually. We will NOT advance to the prophecy of Gen 1:28-31 until AFTER Jesus returns at Armageddon. The present 6th Day, the Day of Salvation, will NOT end until the complete "host" of Heaven is safely present in the 3rd Heaven.

Gen 2:1 ¶ Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, (Heb-brought to perfection) and ALL the host of them.

At the end of the present 6th Day, when the Creation has been brought to perfection and filled with ALL of it's host, which includes the LAST sinner to be created in Christ, God will rest or cease to create, because His creation has finally been made perfect, which is the way all of God's work ends.

BTW, Since Adam was made BEFORE the big bang of our cosmos and lived until some 12k years ago, he was formed more than 13.8 Billion years ago, in man's time. Adam was made as Christians will be made in Heaven where a Billion years in a perfect body, is the same for ALL of God's children. God Bless you

Very interesting. Do all Baptists believe this creation scenerio?

 

[Aman777]

The Hebrew terms without form and empty, means without order and filling of lifeforms and ecosystems which came later. It doesn't mean that it didn't exist as the earth. Your second statement is contradicted by dozens of verses that teach that God has always existed in the physical world and the non physical world. He is ETERNAL and immanent (which means He can exist in anything).

Amen....but at this time there was NO God in the physical world, and darkness or death was upon the air, dust and water God had just created. How could God overcome the death and shape the creation elements into physical form? God speaks His first recorded words: Let there be Light, He said, and that is WHEN Lord God/Jesus came into the physical world, from within the invisible Spirit of God.

In 6 of God's Days/Ages Jesus will shape the physical world with His own Hands. Jesus IS God incarnate, God in physical form. Jesus is the only God ever formed physically. God spoke Himself into the physical world on the 1st Day and Jesus IS Lord. God will make a perfect physical third Heaven and fill it with perfect mankind, made perfect in Christ Spiritually. The LAST thing Jesus will do at the end of the present 6th Day is destroy the death which separates mankind and God. 1Co 15:26


*** God created the water and science has confirmed that the earth at one time very early in its history was covered in water. The Holy Spirit hovered over the face of the deep (ocean). The darkness was caused by the clouds of dust and debris that surrounded the early earth, which is has also been confirmed by science. The light is when God cleared some of the dust and debris and the sun shone through and the day/night daily cycle began.

Ever tried to build something without air, dust and water? Jesus made Adam like a Potter molds the Clay. Everything which exists physically contains air, dust and water. You have confused the beginning of Adam's world with the present Earth. We are still at the beginning time when there was Nothing in physical form. There was NO formed Earth. It was dust.

*** No, energy did not exist prior to the universe, God created energy when He created the universe. Science has confirmed this. According to Hebrews 11:3 God created the universe out of things that cannot be seen by humans or detected by them.

Amen. God lives in a world of energy and Albert Einstein discovered that energy and matter are two sides of the Same coin. God changed some of the energy in His world into matter in the Multiverse. He made matter from energy in His world. The following verse confirms what I've told you about where the Lord lives.

1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

*** There is no biblical or scientific evidence that such a thing ever existed.

Sure there is and it is the most valuable treasure on Planet Earth. It's the bottom of Adam's firmament or solid boundary of Adam's world, which was totally destroyed in the flood. 2Pet3:6 It is under the Northern portion of Lake Van, Turkey and since it protected Adam's Earth from being destroyed by the water which surrounded it, Gen 1:6-7 for Billions of years, I'm sure it's still intact. It's miles in diameter and worth its weight in Gold. Want to see a picture of it? It's proof of life BEFORE the big bang of our Cosmos.

*** These great Christian Biblical scholars ARE the Christians of the last days. They study the linguistic and historical context in the original greek and Hebrew.

Amen, but God told Daniel HOW to hide His Truth from everyone except ALL flesh living in the last days. Dan 12:4 How do you suppose God is going to pour out His Spirit of Truth on ALL of the people of the last days? It's through the increased knowledge which will be discovered by Science. Otherwise, atheists agnostics and evolutionists, will NEVER accept His Truth unless man-made Science proclaims it.

*** There is no evidence for a flat earth ever existing.

Take a hollow firmament, say a tennis ball and put it in water with water above and below it. Gen 1:6-8 Take some water from below the firmament and put it inside and put dry ground on top of that Gen 1:9-10 and you have a model of Adam's Earth which was ONLY 22.5 feet high on it's highest mountains. Gen 7:20

*** Where does the bible say the earth was flat? Isaiah 24 is referring to Judgement Day, not creation. It has nothing to do with two earths.

Go back and read again and explain WHAT the Snare or Trap was, which God set with the Flood to catch men. The Snare is what catches the all knowing evolutionists/scoffers of the last days, who falsely force teach their foolishness that Humans evolved from Apes. The SNARE is the flood.

*** Again nothing in the bible says that there were two worlds one flat and one round. There was only one world. Where does it say that Noah refused to come out until God promised that? According Gen. 8:16 God told Noah to leave the ark BEFORE He made the promise with the rainbow. So it appears your interpretation is incorrect.

What do you suppose is the THIRD Heaven ll Cor 12:2 and Rev 21:1? It's where Jesus has gone to prepare a place for Christians to live after our 2nd Heaven is melted with fervent heat. 2Pet3:10 Adam's 1st Heaven was destroyed in the flood and the present 2nd Heaven will be burned....later today. God Bless you

 

[Aman777]

Very interesting. Do all Baptists believe this creation scenerio?

No, since most have never heard of it. I believe someone should tell them since it's God's Truth which agrees in every way with every discovery of science and history...AND it's what is actually written in Genesis. God Bless you

 

[Eudaimonist]

I am aware of only 2 possible answers to this question.

1) A random chance happening.
2) A Superior Being that had the knowledge to create.

3) An unintelligent entity that had the power to create.
4) The universe never came into existence.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Aman777]

[QUOTE="
Peter1000 said: ↑
I am aware of only 2 possible answers to this question.

1) A random chance happening.
2) A Superior Being that had the knowledge to create.
[/QUOTE]

3) The Supreme Intelligence of Creation with the ability to change energy into matter, or to create a perfect physical Heaven, in just 6 Days/Ages.

 

[Peter1000]

3) An unintelligent entity that had the power to create.
4) The universe never came into existence.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Interesting. An unintelligent being would not have the ability to produce and maintain the important and exact relationships that must exist between the 4 forces in our universe, plus the hundreds of other cooperating ratios that exist to provide teeming life on Earth.

Are you saying that the universe has always been in existence, and that is the reason that it never had to come into existence. I'm giving you credit for this thought, because if you really think the universe is not in existence, then I'll take back any possible credit for intelligence that I gave out.

If you wish to explain yourself, please contribute.

 

[Peter1000]

[QUOTE="
Peter1000 said: ↑
I am aware of only 2 possible answers to this question.

1) A random chance happening.
2) A Superior Being that had the knowledge to create.

3) The Supreme Intelligence of Creation with the ability to change energy into matter, or to create a perfect physical Heaven, in just 6 Days/Ages.[/QUOTE]
3 is the same as 2.