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How did the universe come into existence?

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics' started by Peter1000, Apr 20, 2017.

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  1. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    I am aware of only 2 possible answers to this question.

    1) A random chance happening.
    2) A Superior Being that had the knowledge to create.

    The question is: Is there any other possible ways the universe could have come into existence besides the 2 ways that I have given above?

    Thank you for your response.
     
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  2. DaisyDay

    DaisyDay blind squirrel

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    Given the laws of the universe and physics, an inevitable happening given the conditions of the moment?
     
  3. Uber Genius

    Uber Genius "Super Genius"

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    There is a problem with option number 1 stated above.

    What would random chance be impacting?

    There is No:

    1 - Space
    2 - Time
    3 - Matter
    4 - Energy
    5 - Laws of Nature

    The presocratic philosophers gave us a maxim that still holds today, "ex nihilo nihil fit (in Latin rather than Greek), out of nothing nothing comes."

    While a immaterial, all-powerful being is an option, science which is the empirical study of items 1-5 above will never give us an alternative inference due to its knowledge limitations to a physical world. But there may be some other causal inference thamcomes from philosophy.
     
  4. Moral Orel

    Moral Orel Proud Citizen of Moralton Supporter

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    Can you explain what you mean by "random"? That might be important.
     
  5. Gene Parmesan

    Gene Parmesan Active Member

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    I can only think of one reasonable answer. We don't know yet.
     
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  6. Greg J.

    Greg J. Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Unless God has revealed himself to some people, but not you. Then it's "you don't know yet, and they haven't proven otherwise to your satisfaction."
    There are other possible answers, but those are the two most popular. 8000 years ago, a rat with an unknown nature in another universe/dimension could have sneezed and created the universe as it appears now.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
  7. Gene Parmesan

    Gene Parmesan Active Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  8. Aman777

    Aman777 Christian

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    God the Trinity changed some of the energy in His world into physical matter in our heaven/universe. In just 6 of His Days/Ages, He will produce a perfect physical Heaven filled with perfect physical mankind who will live forever with Him. His name is Jesus and He is the only God ever formed or that ever will be formed physically. Isa 43:11


    Col 2:9 For in Him dwelleth ALL the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
     
  9. expos4ever

    expos4ever Well-Known Member

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    I agree with another poster in the sense that I think we can add a third option: the existence of the universe cannot be understood by us.
     
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  10. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    "Randomness" don't compute!

    The TRI-UNE God from heaven is the Great Designer and Creator. EVERYTHING was created by His perfect WILL. And He is not dead nor doth he sleep. He continues to INTERVENE in EVERYTHING
     
  11. expos4ever

    expos4ever Well-Known Member

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    The problem with the "God created it" explanation is that you have replaced one mystery - the existence of the universe - with another - the existence of God.

    I am happy to agree that God created the universe, but it really doesn't lessen the overwhelming mystery.
     
  12. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    Spirit-led FAITH/BELIEF in the Bible
    PLUS
    common sense LOGIC...=

    some understanding of the "mystery".

    What are purposes and origins of Mankind? The Universe?
     
  13. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    Random = that which is proceeding, made, or occuring without definite aim, reason, or pattern.
     
  14. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    Is this a 3rd option? An inevitable happening vs a random chance happening?

    When you say, "given the conditions of the moment", I'm not sure if we can know the conditions of the moment? If we don't know the conditions of the moment, I'm not sure we can say it was inevitable. Explain if you can.
     
  15. JackRT

    JackRT Well-Known Member Supporter

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    On the face of it that sounds logical but it applies just as equally to the spiritual realm as it does to the physical. If we can envision a God that has existed from eternity then there is absolutely nothing to suggest the physical universe could not have existed from eternity as well.
     
  16. Aman777

    Aman777 Christian

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    The invisible Spirit of Love has always been but not physically. The creation story begins when this Spirit speaks matter into being physically, apart from Himself and anything apart from God contains death or darkness. Then, God Himself, came into the physical world as the Light of the first Day, the Light of mankind and the Light of Heaven. He's the only God ever formed physically and His name is Jesus.

    IOW, Jesus IS God incarnate, in physical form, and the ONLY God you will ever see.
     
  17. ToddNotTodd

    ToddNotTodd Iconoclast

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    Or perhaps none of that is true.
     
  18. Moral Orel

    Moral Orel Proud Citizen of Moralton Supporter

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    So if it lacks aim, or if it lacks a reason, or if it lacks a pattern, it's random.

    "Aim" kind of makes it redundant. Since aim implies a purpose, which requires an intelligence, then of course it would lack aim without there being a God. You might as well ask, "Are there any options for the universe coming to existence other than God or not God?".

    "Reason" can easily imply the same thing as "aim". Of course it could be said that the universe came into existence because of, say, a quantum fluctuation. So there it has a reason. Unless you mean "reason" like you mean "aim", and that is to imply purpose. So again it would be, yes, the universe either exists because God created it or not because God created it.

    Pattern though, is a bit different. If there is only one universe, then there can't be a pattern. It isn't really a valid question to ask of it. Just like we wouldn't say the existence of God doesn't follow a pattern. It is singular. If there is a multiverse, then it would be difficult to determine if there is some overlying pattern in the way that universes pop into existence. Maybe there is, maybe there isn't.

    I think "random chance" might be a bad way to phrase it. It doesn't apply well to offer a distinction between created and naturally occurring.
     
  19. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Simul Justus et Peccator Supporter

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    Well, there is this:


    Yours and His,
    David


    "God gives life to the dead and calls into
    being that which does not exist"

    Romans 4:17b
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
  20. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Simul Justus et Peccator Supporter

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    Perhaps I should also add:
    Yours and His,
    David

    Psalm 90
    1 LORD, Thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations.
    2 Before the mountains were born,
    Or Thou didst give birth to the earth and the world,
    Even from everlasting to everlasting, Thou art God.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
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