How can you determine which is true?

JohnB445

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I have seen both views on eternal security. I honestly don't know for sure.

Born Again Pentecostals will say since we have free will, it is possible for man to turn away from God after being saved, and then Born Again Calvinist will say its impossible to fall away once they are born again and sealed by the Holy Spirit they are eternally secure.

Although I believe we have free will, the idea of one turning away from God after being born again in the future sounds bizarre.

The weight (Importance) of the doctrine of eternal security I figured is low.
If one believes its impossible to fall away once the Holy Spirit indwells and they are born again, it results in an assurance that in the future they will persevere and that they are predestined salvation in the future.

If one believes by free will they can apostatize after being born again, that will result in them being more steadfast in their faith as opposed to absolute comfort when it comes to the future.

Both come up with good arguments, don't know which one.
 
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A_Thinker

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I have seen both views on eternal security. I honestly don't know for sure.

Born Again Pentecostals will say since we have free will, it is possible for man to turn away from God after being saved, and then Born Again Calvinist will say its impossible to fall away once they are born again and sealed by the Holy Spirit they are eternally secure.

Although I believe we have free will, the idea of one turning away from God after being born again in the future sounds bizarre.

The weight (Importance) of the doctrine of eternal security I figured is low.
If one believes its impossible to fall away once the Holy Spirit indwells and they are born again, it results in an assurance that in the future they will persevere and that they are predestined salvation in the future.

If one believes by free will they can apostatize after being born again, that will result in them being more steadfast in their faith as opposed to absolute comfort when it comes to the future.

Both come up with good arguments, don't know which one.

If you maintain your relationship with Jesus, you won't have to worry either way ...
 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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I have seen both views on eternal security. I honestly don't know for sure.

Born Again Pentecostals will say since we have free will, it is possible for man to turn away from God after being saved, and then Born Again Calvinist will say its impossible to fall away once they are born again and sealed by the Holy Spirit they are eternally secure.

Although I believe we have free will, the idea of one turning away from God after being born again in the future sounds bizarre.

The weight (Importance) of the doctrine of eternal security I figured is low.
If one believes its impossible to fall away once the Holy Spirit indwells and they are born again, it results in an assurance that in the future they will persevere and that they are predestined salvation in the future.

If one believes by free will they can apostatize after being born again, that will result in them being more steadfast in their faith as opposed to absolute comfort when it comes to the future., it no

Both come up with good arguments, don't know which one.

Well, if you of your own free will give your life to Lord Jesus,your life no longer belongs to you, you gave it away! And since it now belongs to Lord Jesus,He will keep you in Him.
 
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TuxAme

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As with any other question, I'd say to go to the first Christians to see what they thought. They lived closer to the time of Christ and His Apostles and would know more than us.
 
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Not me

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I have seen both views on eternal security. I honestly don't know for sure.

Born Again Pentecostals will say since we have free will, it is possible for man to turn away from God after being saved, and then Born Again Calvinist will say its impossible to fall away once they are born again and sealed by the Holy Spirit they are eternally secure.

Although I believe we have free will, the idea of one turning away from God after being born again in the future sounds bizarre.

The weight (Importance) of the doctrine of eternal security I figured is low.
If one believes its impossible to fall away once the Holy Spirit indwells and they are born again, it results in an assurance that in the future they will persevere and that they are predestined salvation in the future.

If one believes by free will they can apostatize after being born again, that will result in them being more steadfast in their faith as opposed to absolute comfort when it comes to the future.

Both come up with good arguments, don't know which one.

This is a question many well meaning Christian’s have debated over the centuries, as you mentioned, both have a argument that please(s) human reasoning. But one is the truth, the other is not. I believe, this is where a believer’s personal relationship with Christ is of such a necessity. For if one is not convinced inwardly, they will be tossed, as scripture says by “every wind of doctrine”. Scripture also says “let the peace of Christ rule in your heart”. So the question would be; What is the peace of Christ in your heart telling you about the answer to this question?

The more one grows their personal relationship with Christ, the more they can get a “read” on what the peace of Christ in their heart is saying at any given moment of time. I realize it is not the answer your looking for, but it does direct ones heart to Christ, Who has the answer.

Blessings as you search this truth out.

Much love in Christ, Not me
 
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bcbsr

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I have seen both views on eternal security. I honestly don't know for sure.

Born Again Pentecostals will say since we have free will, it is possible for man to turn away from God after being saved, and then Born Again Calvinist will say its impossible to fall away once they are born again and sealed by the Holy Spirit they are eternally secure.

Although I believe we have free will, the idea of one turning away from God after being born again in the future sounds bizarre.

The weight (Importance) of the doctrine of eternal security I figured is low.
If one believes its impossible to fall away once the Holy Spirit indwells and they are born again, it results in an assurance that in the future they will persevere and that they are predestined salvation in the future.

If one believes by free will they can apostatize after being born again, that will result in them being more steadfast in their faith as opposed to absolute comfort when it comes to the future.

Both come up with good arguments, don't know which one.
The issue there is where one's trust gets directed. The Pro-Eternal Security people will direct their trust in the Lord to save them, while the anti-Eternal Security people will tend to put their trust in themselves and their works to maintain their salvation status.
 
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Call me Nic

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The issue there is where one's trust gets directed. The Pro-Eternal Security people will direct their trust in the Lord to save them, while the anti-Eternal Security people will tend to put their trust in themselves and their works to maintain their salvation status.
So then which view is more in line with the doctrine of justification by grace through faith? Must be eternal security, right? Because the opposite is more along the lines of works-salvation. We know we’re not saved by works (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Not to mention nothing can separate a believer from the love of God in Christ (Romans 8:38-39).
 
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Tutorman

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Born Again Pentecostals will say since we have free will, it is possible for man to turn away from God after being saved, and then Born Again Calvinist will say its impossible to fall away once they are born again and sealed by the Holy Spirit they are eternally secure.

There are other Christians besides Pentecostals that believe that it is possible for a person to turn away. As a Liturgical Christian I believe salvation can be lost and so do other Liturgical Communions like the Orthodox, Catholics, some Lutheran communions as well as some Anglican communions. The idea of eternal security is relatively new and came in after the reformation and you would not find such a concept such as eternal security in the Early Church Fathers.
 
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EJ M

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I have seen both views on eternal security. I honestly don't know for sure.

Born Again Pentecostals will say since we have free will, it is possible for man to turn away from God after being saved, and then Born Again Calvinist will say its impossible to fall away once they are born again and sealed by the Holy Spirit they are eternally secure.

Although I believe we have free will, the idea of one turning away from God after being born again in the future sounds bizarre.

The weight (Importance) of the doctrine of eternal security I figured is low.
If one believes its impossible to fall away once the Holy Spirit indwells and they are born again, it results in an assurance that in the future they will persevere and that they are predestined salvation in the future.

If one believes by free will they can apostatize after being born again, that will result in them being more steadfast in their faith as opposed to absolute comfort when it comes to the future.

Both come up with good arguments, don't know which one.
The scripture would outline, it's easy to be saved, (Rom 10:9-10) hard to be lost, (Jude 1:24)
and impossible to be saved again if we don't abide in Him. (Heb 6:4-8 and 10:26-30)
 
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Call me Nic

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The scripture would outline, it's easy to be saved, (Rom 10:9-10) hard to be lost, (Jude 1:24)
and impossible to be saved again if we don't abide in Him. (Heb 6:4-8 and 10:26-30)
Impossible to be saved again because once a person is already saved, they’re still saved. Everlasting life is just that: it lasts forever from the point of receiving it.
 
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Albion

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The idea of eternal security is relatively new and came in after the reformation and you would not find such a concept such as eternal security in the Early Church Fathers.
Neither would any doctrine saying that the Early Church Fathers could not ever be wrong.

If whatever the belief is can be verified by the Bible, then it does not require the permission of a few church leaders from the first several centuries of church history.
 
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EJ M

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Impossible to be saved again because once a person is already saved, they’re still saved. Everlasting life is just that: it lasts forever from the point of receiving it.
The Bible is correct, not man.
Heb 6 through 10 makes it clear, to fall away is deadly, spiritually if we choose to do so.
We cannot be plucked out of His hand, and nothing can separate us from the love of God, but nowhere does it say or imply, we cannot fall away of our own inclination if we so chose.
God told Moses, the one who sins will be blotted out of the book of life. Exodus 32:33
The worst part of Calvinism is the belief that a God who is love, created, gave life to, and protected the vast majority of humanity, to be lost, doomed and damned forever.
This heretical doctrine Calvin invented, claims God alone chooses who will be saved, and who will be damned in the lake of fire, man has no choice in the matter.
That is not the God who saved me.
 
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Call me Nic

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The Bible is correct, not man.
Heb 6 through 10 makes it clear, to fall away is deadly, spiritually if we choose to do so.
We cannot be plucked out of His hand, and nothing can separate us from the love of God, but nowhere does it say or imply, we cannot fall away of our own inclination if we so chose.
God told Moses, the one who sins will be blotted out of the book of life. Exodus 32:33
The worst part of Calvinism is the belief that a God who is love, created, gave life to, and protected the vast majority of humanity, to be lost, doomed and damned forever.
This heretical doctrine Calvin invented, claims God alone chooses who will be saved, and who will be damned in the lake of fire, man has no choice in the matter.
That is not the God who saved me.
Calvinism back-channels works into salvation, saying that a Christian who perseveres in faith unto the end is saved, that it is based upon that person's ability to "endure until the end." That is the doctrine called "Perseverance of the Saints." I do not believe in this doctrine.

The doctrine I believe in, and what the Bible teaches, is called "Eternal Security," which states that the man who is saved is sealed of the Holy Spirit upon believing and receiving the Gospel of Jesus Christ (Ephesians 1:13), and that the seal upon the believer is the seal made by God, and lasts until the day of redemption (Ephesians 4:30); such a seal cannot be broken by any man, whether it be the believer or not, because no man can make crooked that which God has made straight (Ecclesiastes 7:13), and no man can shut the door that Jesus opens (Revelation 3:7). If what you say is true, and the believer can somehow cause himself to become unsaved, then you are saying that that same believer is more powerful then God, and is able to break the seal of the Holy Ghost given to him by God. And that, sir, is blasphemy.

Secondly, Jesus says very clearly in John 10:28 that no man can pluck those who believe in him out his hand, and that includes the man who believes. No man means no man, sir. You cannot have it both ways; the verse says what it means.

Thirdly, in Exodus, we cannot apply that verse to the context of the "Book of Life," which is the book containing all the souls who shall receive everlasting life from the Lord. Why not, you may ask? Because upon comparing scripture with scripture, we find that in Deuteronomy 9:18-26, the context of Moses begging the Lord not to bring wrath upon the people has nothing to do with individual's having salvation, but rather about the success of the nation of Israel as a people. They were rebelling against God, committing wicked idolatry in the wilderness, and were not serving the Lord as they ought to have, and so God wanted to destroy them in the wilderness, and utterly wipe away their inheritance, as proven in Deuteronomy 9:26. What was their inheritance? The land of Canaan, promised to Abraham, the land "flowing with milk and honey;" God wanted to revoke that inheritance from them and cause them to be a people no longer, but God spared them for Moses' sake. This is not talking about being wiped from the book of life if one sinned against God; this was talking about being destroyed as a nation.

Fourthly, all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23); therefore, no person who has ever lived (except for Jesus) has deserved everlasting life, which is why God offers it as a gift (Ephesians 2:8, Romans 5:18, Romans 6:23) to all who believe (John 3:16-18); those who believe receive it, not because they were ever worthy, but because they place their trust in Christ, the one who alone is worthy. Therefore, why would God take away something from a person they never deserved to have in the first place? He wouldn't, because other it wouldn't be a free gift. The idea of a gift is that it is bought and paid for by the giver (Christ), and given to be possessed by the receiver. That means that the receiver gets to keep it as his own without conditions, otherwise it wouldn't be a gift - it would be a loan. If you say that salvation is not a free gift, you are calling God a liar, but God cannot lie (Titus 1:2), because he offers salvation as a promise based upon his own righteousness.

Hebrews 10:29 in context is speaking of he who is not saved. At the end of the chapter, the writer of Hebrews makes the distinction between he who is just, and he who draws back unto perdition. He who is just lives by faith, and believes unto the saving of the soul. He who draws back did not believe, and draws back unto perdition. That person is the one talked about in verse 29. Why? Because there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins (Hebrews 10:26); he that does not have the sacrifice of sins accounted unto him is not saved, period. Because the person who has their sins remitted, there is no more offering for sin (Hebrews 10:18) because their sins are remitted already by the blood of Jesus.

Hebrews 6:4 says it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and made partakers of the holy Ghost to be renewed. Why? Because those people are already renewed, because they have been sealed (Ephesians 1:13). If they had to be renewed again, and were to be re-saved again upon repentance, it would show the insufficiency of the sacrifice of Jesus. It would show that he wouldn't be a good enough atonement, and that his righteousness was fallible due to the fact of the person having to be re-saved, which would put him to an open shame. However, we know that that is impossible (verse 4), because Christ was offered once for sins (Hebrews 9:24-28); he is totally sufficient to pay for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). If you interpret this verse the way you do, then it contradicts many other obvious scriptures saying a person who receives eternal life will never die (John 5:24, John 6:47, John 3:18), but God's way is perfect (Psalms 18:30), and his scripture wouldn't contradict itself.

The fact of the matter is, if you believe that God will ever take away your salvation, you're not trusting God; if you believe that you must do anything to keep your salvation, you are trusting yourself, a sinner, to be righteous enough to get to heaven. However, there is none righteous, not even one (Romans 3:10); therefore, upon receiving salvation, it is only logical to conclude that one cannot lose that which he never deserved to receive in the first place, no matter what, because God does not change his mind about something so serious. Man is not greater than God, and man cannot undo that which God has finished. Biblically, it only makes sense that one who receives Christ forever has Christ.

The people who deny everlasting life are those who do not trust God. Period.
 
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Kenny'sID

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How can you determine which is true?

Here is one way.

1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

I'd love to hear how the Calvinists explain that is not saying we can lose salvation. Maybe they aren't reading their bibles, or are so deep into denial that their mind just won't allow them to see what is right there in front of them, just as I've seen happen here before. It's really quite creepy.
 
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Call me Nic

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Here is one way.

1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

I'd love to hear how the Calvinists explain that is not saying we can lose salvation. Maybe they aren't reading their bibles, or are so deep into denial that their mind just won't allow them to see what is right there in front of them, just as I've seen happen here before. It's really quite creepy.
2 Timothy 3 is a prophecy regarding the same thing, and calls those people reprobate "concerning the faith." In the passage in 1 Timothy 4, it says that those people have their "conscience seared with a hot iron." A reprobate is someone who has been given up to all unrighteousness according to Romans 1. Those people being talked about in those two passages may be church-goers, but they are definitely not saved. You're misinterpreting scripture if you think these scriptures are saying people are losing their salvation. It says, "Some shall depart from the faith," not "some shall lose their salvation." There is a difference.
 
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Rooted

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1 Tim 4 does show us sound and unsound doctrine.

I've seen first hand in 2 different churches men turned to speaking about talking animals and horror films...and yes they both had critical text bibles.
I even have recorded proof to one sermon we're an prescher of an congregation of 34 years departing into speaking about the movie alien and referencng an woman's uborn child in the womb.


I use received text Bible's versions .
 
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fhansen

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I have seen both views on eternal security. I honestly don't know for sure.

Born Again Pentecostals will say since we have free will, it is possible for man to turn away from God after being saved, and then Born Again Calvinist will say its impossible to fall away once they are born again and sealed by the Holy Spirit they are eternally secure.

Although I believe we have free will, the idea of one turning away from God after being born again in the future sounds bizarre.

The weight (Importance) of the doctrine of eternal security I figured is low.
If one believes its impossible to fall away once the Holy Spirit indwells and they are born again, it results in an assurance that in the future they will persevere and that they are predestined salvation in the future.

If one believes by free will they can apostatize after being born again, that will result in them being more steadfast in their faith as opposed to absolute comfort when it comes to the future.

Both come up with good arguments, don't know which one.
As is fairly common, Scripture can be used to support more than one view on this matter. The church, however, has historically taught that one can lose salvation, that we can have a level of assurance based on our fruits and experience, but not 100% certainty. A healthy degree of uncertainty in light of our limitations and weaknesses is in order.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Those people being talked about in those two passages may be church-goers, but they are definitely not saved.

All the words in the world cannot change what that scripture says simply...they left their "faith". If as you say "they were never saved to begin with" or never had their faith, there would be nothing for them to leave. They left their faith/salvation, so please, don't even....

You have completely deluded yourself. I saw that yesterday from someone on the same verse, and as I said, it really is scary to see someone deny something that is clear and right in front of them..
 
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