How can I die to self?

[TenthAveN]

Every time I pray for God to forgive my sins, I don’t (as far as I know) have any trouble confessing them, and telling God that I believe Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, but when I get to the part that says Jesus is Lord, I get this resistant feeling in my chest. No matter how much I want to mean it, I feel like I don’t. I have several theories as to why this happens:

1) Fear of Man. This has been a long time struggle of mine. I feel I’ve made decent strides in the past week to overcome this, but I still feel so useless. Why would God give me grace if I’m going to be useless?

2) I am afraid of giving my life to God then failing to do what He asks me to do, but this kind of ties in to my fear of man in point one.

3) Dying to self is hard, and it’s a natural heart reaction to the thought of making someone else the Lord of my life.

I don’t know which it is, could be all three. But I feel like God won’t accept me if I say Jesus is Lord but I don’t mean or, or feel like I don’t mean it. Advice and prayers, as always, are appreciated.

 

[Tolworth John]

Every time I pray for God to forgive my sins, I don’t (as far as I know) have any trouble confessing them, and telling God that I believe Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, but when I get to the part that says Jesus is Lord, I get this resistant feeling in my chest. No matter how much I want to mean it, I feel like I don’t. I have several theories as to why this happens:

1) Fear of Man. This has been a long time struggle of mine. I feel I’ve made decent strides in the past week to overcome this, but I still feel so useless. Why would God give me grace if I’m going to be useless?

2) I am afraid of giving my life to God then failing to do what He asks me to do, but this kind of ties in to my fear of man in point one.

3) Dying to self is hard, and it’s a natural heart reaction to the thought of making someone else the Lord of my life.

I don’t know which it is, could be all three. But I feel like God won’t accept me if I say Jesus is Lord but I don’t mean or, or feel like I don’t mean it. Advice and prayers, as always, are appreciated.

Talk to your minister, is the best advice I can give.

 

[disciple Clint]

Every time I pray for God to forgive my sins, I don’t (as far as I know) have any trouble confessing them, and telling God that I believe Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, but when I get to the part that says Jesus is Lord, I get this resistant feeling in my chest. No matter how much I want to mean it, I feel like I don’t. I have several theories as to why this happens:

1) Fear of Man. This has been a long time struggle of mine. I feel I’ve made decent strides in the past week to overcome this, but I still feel so useless. Why would God give me grace if I’m going to be useless?

2) I am afraid of giving my life to God then failing to do what He asks me to do, but this kind of ties in to my fear of man in point one.

3) Dying to self is hard, and it’s a natural heart reaction to the thought of making someone else the Lord of my life.

I don’t know which it is, could be all three. But I feel like God won’t accept me if I say Jesus is Lord but I don’t mean or, or feel like I don’t mean it. Advice and prayers, as always, are appreciated.

Honestly I think your feeling are very normal, we all fall short and God knows our hearts so He understands.

 

[timothyu]

. But I feel like God won’t accept me if I say Jesus is Lord but I don’t mean or, or feel like I don’t mean it.

Don't forget the Father is Jesus' Lord.
As for dying to self, self was and is the self interest that Eve first showed when she put her will before God's. The whole Bible revolves around repenting of this self serving attitude in favour of the will of God. What did He say that will was? Love all as self, not self.

 

[disciple Clint]

Don't forget the Father is Jesus' Lord.
As for dying to self, self was and is the self interest that Eve first showed when she put her will before God's. The whole Bible revolves around repenting of this self serving attitude in favour of the will of God. What did He say that will was? Love all as self, not self.

Don't forget the Father is Jesus' Lord.

WHAT?????

 

[TenthAveN]

WHAT?????

Yeah, that kinda threw me off too, but I think I understand. The Father does have authority over the Son, right? Correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[disciple Clint]

Yeah, that kinda threw me off too, but I think I understand. The Father does have authority over the Son, right? Correct me if I’m wrong.

"we shall want to distinguish between what is called the ontological Trinity and the economic Trinity. The ontological Trinity concerns God as He is in Himself, unrelated to the world, while the economic Trinity concerns God as He stands in relation to creatures. Ontologically, the three persons, being underived and perfectly equal, do not stand in any relations of subordination. But in relation to creatures, for the sake of our salvation the second person of the Trinity submits to the first, taking on a human nature, and the third person acts in the place of the second, continuing the ministry of the Son between his ascension and return. So in the economic Trinity there are relations of subordination among the persons of the Trinity.

What’s important to understand is that subordination does not imply inferiority. The Son and the Father are in every respect co-equal, but out of love for us and for the sake of our salvation, the Son submits to the Father. The Trinity thus provides a beautiful model of the family, in which the wife, though co-equal with her husband, willingly submits to him. Feminists who denounce such submission on grounds of inequality have failed to understand that functional submission need not spring from inferiority but can be undertaken among equals for the sake of some overriding aim."
Subordination of God the Son to the Father

 

[lastofall]

It is a matter of lacking faith: seeing therefore that faith cometh by hearing the Word of God; then we must needs more abundantly hear the Word of God; and hearing is submitting to and relying upon the Word of God.
As for denying self: we can only follow the Lord Jesus Christ in Truth when we deny ourselves; and to deny ourselves is to deny (or disown) our own will, which thing we must learn to discipline ourselves to do: How? by learning to not think above that which is written, knowing that any thing above that which is written is where exaggeration and over-estimation dwelleth: for what purpose? that we may bring into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; again by denying (disowning) our own will; then may we cast down imaginations (reasonings), and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God. So therefore let us make the sincere effort to continually deny (disown) our own will, that our mind and thought are set to shew ourselves approved of God, as a workman that needs not to be ashamed, but may instead rightly divide the Word of Truth all the day long. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
(Romans 10:17)
(Matthew 16:24) (Mark 8:34) (Luke 9:23)
(2 Corinthians 10:5)
(2 Timothy 2:15)

 

[bmjackson]

'Dying to self' is an eastern religion concept. The Bible says we are to:

'If anyone wants to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. 25 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it.'
Matthew 16:24-26

To enter into this higher life in Christ, we need to clean our lives up, and then ask the Lord to show us where we are blinded by our sin. It will be the firs thing that we think of and often the most difficult to hear.

It is like standing on the edge of a cliff and stepping out, with the faith that God will catch us. He will but the devil will put all sorts of things in our minds, like what if He will send me to a really terrible situation to move to overseas. He will not ask us to do anything that He will not give us the ability and desire to do. And whatever we sacrifice for Him will be rewarded a hundred times.

You have the choice to move forward or stay in that uneasy state.

 

[Johann@P]

Every time I pray for God to forgive my sins, I don’t (as far as I know) have any trouble confessing them, and telling God that I believe Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, but when I get to the part that says Jesus is Lord, I get this resistant feeling in my chest. No matter how much I want to mean it, I feel like I don’t. I have several theories as to why this happens:

1) Fear of Man. This has been a long time struggle of mine. I feel I’ve made decent strides in the past week to overcome this, but I still feel so useless. Why would God give me grace if I’m going to be useless?

2) I am afraid of giving my life to God then failing to do what He asks me to do, but this kind of ties in to my fear of man in point one.

3) Dying to self is hard, and it’s a natural heart reaction to the thought of making someone else the Lord of my life.

I don’t know which it is, could be all three. But I feel like God won’t accept me if I say Jesus is Lord but I don’t mean or, or feel like I don’t mean it. Advice and prayers, as always, are appreciated.

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:


Our old man (ho palaios hēmōn anthrōpos). Only in Paul (here, Col_3:9; Eph_4:22).
Was crucified with him (sunestaurōthē). This took place not at baptism, but only pictured there.

It took place when “we died to sin” (Rom_6:1).
The body of sin (to sōma tēs hamartias). “The body of which sin has taken possession” (Sanday and Headlam), the body marked by sin.
That so we should no longer be in bondage to sin (tou mēketi douleuein hēmas tēi hamartiāi). Purpose clause with tou and the present active infinitive of douleuō, continue serving sin (as slaves). Adds “slavery” to living in sin (Rom_6:2).


Is freed (δεδικαίωται)
Lit., as Rev., is justified; i.e., acquitted, absolved; just as the dead person sins no more, being released from sin as from a legal claim. “As a man that is dead is acquitted and released from bondage among men, so a man that has died to sin is acquitted from the guilt of sin and released from its bondage” (Alford).

NOW IF WE HAVE DIED WITH CHRIST: ei de apethanomen (1PAAI) sun Christo: Ro 6:3, 4, 5; 2Ti 2:11,12 Romans 6 -

Romans 6:5-11: Dead to Sin, Alive to God -

Steven Cole Romans 6:1-14 Dead to Sin; Alive to God - John MacArthur Romans 6:1-11 Alive Through Christ's Death - John MacArthur Romans 6:1-14 The Spiritual Significance of The Resurrection, Pt. 1 - John MacArthur Romans 6:1-14 The Spiritual Significance of The Resurrection, Pt. 2 - John MacArthur Romans 6:1-14 Spiritual Transformation, Part 3 - John MacArthur Romans 6:6-10 Dying to Live 2- Study Guide (click dropdown menu)- John MacArthur If - This particle (ei) introduces a first class conditional statement which assumes the following is true and can be translated "since" or "in view of the fact that" (we have died with Christ). We have died (599) (apothnesko [word study] from apo = marker of dissociation implying a rupture from a former association, separation, departure, cessation + thnesko = die) literally means to die off and can speak of physical death but in this context speaks figuratively (metaphorically) of a believer's death to sin. Have died is aorist tense which signifies that this event happened in the past at a point in time. When a person chooses to turn to Christ and turn away from sin, they die! This is a historical event in the life of every believer. Click for more discussion of apothnesko in the exposition of Paul's rhetorical question in Romans 6:2 (see note "how shall we who died [apothnesko] to sin still live in it.") Paul now goes on in the next three verses to explain additional benefit of our union with Christ in His death. Here he explains a truth the natural mind cannot comprehend, that since we died with Christ, we shall now and in the future live with Christ. With (4862) (sun/syn [word study]) speaks of an intimate, irreversible union. As an aside, it is interesting that although believers have been crucified with Christ at Calvary (past tense salvation - justification), Jesus still calls us to take up our cross (a picture of suffering and death) daily (Lk 9:23, cf Paul's instruction in Col 3:5-note), these latter exhortations equating with present tense salvation ( ~ sanctification). In this verse in Ro 6:8 Paul is teaching us the truth that we died with Christ in the past and this death is a once for all experience that has positioned us in Christ and enables us to carry out the daily call to death to our old self's lusts (but this too is appropriated "by faith" - Col 2:6-note). WE BELIEVE THAT WE SHALL ALSO LIVE WITH HIM: pisteuomen (1PPAI) hoti kai suzesomen (1PFAI) auto: Jn 14:19; 2Cor 4:10-14; 13:4; Col 3:3,4; 1Th 4:14, 15, 16, 17 Romans 6 Resources - Multiple Sermons and Commentaries Romans 6:5-11: Dead to Sin, Alive to God - Steven Cole Romans 6:1-14 Dead to Sin; Alive to God - John MacArthur Romans 6:1-11 Alive Through Christ's Death - John MacArthur Romans 6:1-14 The Spiritual Significance of The Resurrection, Pt. 1 - John MacArthur Romans 6:1-14 The Spiritual Significance of The Resurrection, Pt. 2 - John MacArthur Romans 6:1-14 Spiritual Transformation, Part 3 - John MacArthur Romans 6:6-10 Dying to Live 2- Study Guide (click dropdown menu)- John MacArthur “Now, in view of the fact that we died off with Christ, we believe (dogmatically) that we will also live with Him.”

Gal_2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.


Gal 6:14 But as for me, may it never be that I boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
Gal 6:15 For neither is circumcision anything nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.

Should you wish to discuss, PM me.
God bless
Johann

 

[timf]

If you read the biblical definition of Love in 1 Cor 13:4-7 you can conclude it is basically selflessness.

Here is a free pdf booklet on dying to self

http://christianpioneer.com/ebooks/dts.pdf

It can be read as web pages here

Christian Pioneer - Current blog

 

[Johann@P]

Here is a free pdf booklet on dying to self

Thank you for the PDF @timf but here is a question.
Do we die to self daily, or is it in the Aorist, an once for all event?
Johann.

 

[TenthAveN]

Thank you for the PDF @timf but here is a question.
Do we die to self daily, or is it in the Aorist, an once for all event?
Johann.

Luke 9:23: Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, take up His cross daily, and follow Me.” Luke 9:23 NKJV

 

[timothyu]

Yeah, that kinda threw me off too, but I think I understand. The Father does have authority over the Son, right? Correct me if I’m wrong.

He did only the will of the Father, and remains the go between in the Kingdom

 

[timothyu]

'If anyone wants to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. 25 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it.'
Matthew 16:24-26

Although that scripture complete is bang on... Ever ask yourself why He would say take up your cross? Was that a common thing to say before the fact?

 

[Brad D.]

@TenthAveN glad to see you back on the boards. Looks like Christ is doing a lot in you my friend. Here is some of my take on the above discussion.

Every time we live out of the Spirit we die to self. Every time we life out of the flesh we crucify the Son of God afresh. We are continually between two choices. So dyeing to self is a continual daily thing. Even a moment by moment thing, that the the flesh may die so Christ may live. 2 Corinthians 4:11 For we who live are always delivered over to death for Jesus sake, so that the life of Christ may be manifested in our mortal flesh.

Egypt was buried in the Red Sea, but the desire for Egypt was always in the Children of Israel's heart. He had disabled and eliminated even Egypt's power over them. But it was always in their power to give that power right back to the thing they had been delivered from. That is why it says We died with Him. Our old mand died with Him, but why we must die daily to never give that power back.

 

[Blade]

Every time I pray for God to forgive my sins, I don’t (as far as I know) have any trouble confessing them, and telling God that I believe Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, but when I get to the part that says Jesus is Lord, I get this resistant feeling in my chest. No matter how much I want to mean it, I feel like I don’t. I have several theories as to why this happens:

1) Fear of Man. This has been a long time struggle of mine. I feel I’ve made decent strides in the past week to overcome this, but I still feel so useless. Why would God give me grace if I’m going to be useless?

2) I am afraid of giving my life to God then failing to do what He asks me to do, but this kind of ties in to my fear of man in point one.

3) Dying to self is hard, and it’s a natural heart reaction to the thought of making someone else the Lord of my life.

I don’t know which it is, could be all three. But I feel like God won’t accept me if I say Jesus is Lord but I don’t mean or, or feel like I don’t mean it. Advice and prayers, as always, are appreciated.

When He found you/us you were born from above/born again. So its why every moment we must put off the old man.. renew our minds and put on the new man which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. You know the song playing "Getting Started Jeremy Camp". Not by chance its playing...for you. See I was going to say how He takes you just as you are "someone still loves who you are". the song. Thats just it.. He takes you just as you are. What HE starts in you HE will finish. We are all stuck in this flesh and we all have those feelings now and again "man I know I am not saved, I know He doesn't want me". Those thoughts are based on flesh and do not come from God. We are saved, He loves us and will never leave us. He is never ever mad at us. Any time we fall no matter how many times EVERYONE else in this world left us but look up.. see there He is...hand reaching down smile on His face helping you back up. Telling you "keep your eyes on me". And keep your eyes in His word. Faith comes by hearing hearing by the word of God.

Paul said the things he wants to do should do he does not do them but the things he does not want to do he does. Its this flesh it loves to sin. So its one reason we must stay in the word and pray and yes go to Church (word Church) be around those that know HIM speak word of life. So speak it from you heart..not based on how you "feel". He got you just as you are and loves you. Just run to Him and don't look back no matter what. Any sin fall in His arms let Him help

 

[Brad D.]

Every time I pray for God to forgive my sins, I don’t (as far as I know) have any trouble confessing them, and telling God that I believe Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, but when I get to the part that says Jesus is Lord, I get this resistant feeling in my chest. No matter how much I want to mean it, I feel like I don’t. I have several theories as to why this happens:

1) Fear of Man. This has been a long time struggle of mine. I feel I’ve made decent strides in the past week to overcome this, but I still feel so useless. Why would God give me grace if I’m going to be useless?

2) I am afraid of giving my life to God then failing to do what He asks me to do, but this kind of ties in to my fear of man in point one.

3) Dying to self is hard, and it’s a natural heart reaction to the thought of making someone else the Lord of my life.

I don’t know which it is, could be all three. But I feel like God won’t accept me if I say Jesus is Lord but I don’t mean or, or feel like I don’t mean it. Advice and prayers, as always, are appreciated.

One other thing. If you are waiting on your perfection to be saved you will be waiting a long time. If you were already perfected there would be no need to be saved. It seems you feel you can't be saved because you don't feel good enough to be saved. Why don't you just try throwing yourself at His mercy. Tell Him you love Him but you feel your flesh is too weak to follow Him (whos isnt?) , plead the blood ask for the cross. The blood is for where you are not, the cross is for where you are going, ask Him to be in you what you can never be in yourself, the Spirit is willing the flesh is weak, plead your willingness but ask Him to help you in your weakness. Tell Him you want to do right, but you feel you can't and then ask Him to be what you can never become. Have a heartfelt conversation with Him. Give Him your life and throw yourself at His mercy and see what happens.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Every time I pray for God to forgive my sins, I don’t (as far as I know) have any trouble confessing them, and telling God that I believe Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, but when I get to the part that says Jesus is Lord, I get this resistant feeling in my chest. No matter how much I want to mean it, I feel like I don’t. I have several theories as to why this happens:

1) Fear of Man. This has been a long time struggle of mine. I feel I’ve made decent strides in the past week to overcome this, but I still feel so useless. Why would God give me grace if I’m going to be useless?

2) I am afraid of giving my life to God then failing to do what He asks me to do, but this kind of ties in to my fear of man in point one.

3) Dying to self is hard, and it’s a natural heart reaction to the thought of making someone else the Lord of my life.

I don’t know which it is, could be all three. But I feel like God won’t accept me if I say Jesus is Lord but I don’t mean or, or feel like I don’t mean it. Advice and prayers, as always, are appreciated.

Sometimes we need to back up and see from a distance. From your post I see doubt. I also see the need for forgivness. Doubt does not lead one into repentance, changing of ones mind. Until you change your mind about your Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth, He can not give you His Holy Spirt which will unbind your heart. I'll pray for that. Blessings

 

[bmjackson]

Although that scripture complete is bang on... Ever ask yourself why He would say take up your cross? Was that a common thing to say before the fact?

What an interesting comment. As crucifixion was a common form of punishment in Roman law, I guess it was. Jesus knew it was going to be His destiny.