How can a "Christian" support same sex marriage?

[Zoii]

I know, but what is the rationale for their support? You don't have to say that you are for or against same sex marriage to explain why they believe their position is justifiable? For example, I can go on all day about what Mormons believe and why without supporting Mormonism.

Well I've never understood why our religion was so obsessed over someone else's sex life

 

[vinsight4u]

Okay, this is based on an actual situation in a church.

We have this nice lady in our church. Her mother is moving here, but she is married /by secular law/ to another lady. What should we do? We don't want her to stop coming to the church. According to the state, they are married.

In the eyes of God, they are not married. We ought to obey God, rather than men.

We don't want to hurt her feelings. This is her mother, and her spouse.

no -not a spouse
They are living in sin, and need to be saved.
not told - that they are saved

 

[FireDragon76]

Well I've never understood why our religion was so obsessed over someone else's sex life

The good thing is that believing the Gospel doesn't have to involve being conventionally religious, or following man-made interpretations of the Bible.

From a Lutheran POV, people use the Law to construct this thing called religion, Luther called this the opinio legis (the "attitude of law"). And it reflects humanity's fallenness just as much as more outwardly heinous acts. Religion has been used to oppress and demean other human beings for centuries, and this was no surprise to people like Luther and its no surprise to many other modern Christian either. The Gospel stands in stark contrast to all attempts to mediate a relationship to God through our works or our lifestyle.

 

[vinsight4u]

Well I've never understood why our religion was so obsessed over someone else's sex life

Sex is to be within God's created way of doing it.
He created them - male and female
then shall a man leave his mother - and take a wife

be married - in Christ

 

[PloverWing]

Here is the relevant section of the statement of purpose for this forum:

Homosexuality, Same-Sex Marriage, Bisexuality and Transgenderism/Transexualism: Discussion of these topics must comply with the sitewide rule barring the promotion of homosexuality, same-sex marriage, bisexuality, and transgenderism/transexualism. Discussion and debate should only be directed toward political, legal, historical and civil rights issues, and should not be directed toward the morality of homosexuality, same-sex marriage, bisexuality or transgenderism/transexualism.

Thus, Christians who support same sex marriage cannot answer your question and stay within the rules for this forum. The Ethics and Morality forum contains the same statement, so it does not work as an alternative location.

WWMC is one of the few places in CF where a discussion of this topic is permitted, although even there some restrictions apply. One extended discussion, led by one of WWMC's most knowledgeable participants, is here: liberal approaches to homosexuality and transgender.

 

[Heavenhome]

So how did so many churches allow themselves to become so deceived?

I believe it is because they follow their ways not God. They have allowed the world and its ways to take root within their churches and prefer the praise and popularity of men rather than obedience to God.
The saddest thing is that by their false teaching (that homosexuality is ok), they are leading people into the lie (as Satan did in Eden) and to the pit. All because they are NOT following the Bible- Gods' word to us.

Another case of the weeds among the wheat we are to beware of this and stop thinking Christians biggest enemy is the world. It is the world as it has been allowed to infiltrate the churches, they are the most dangerous.

In my opinion there is only one way for the church to deal with homosexuality and that is to treat it as God does: Sin.
My belief is that if a person truly is attracted to the opposite sex, comes to Christ and still has those feelings, then they should be as any other unmarried Christian: Celibate. And they have to stay that way forever because it is wrong.
This is pretty much impossible in this day and age as so many churches now turn a blind eye to even heterosexual sin (sex before marriage, cohabitation etc) .

 

[Kenny'sID]

I gather you are condemning homosexuality, incest and polygamy....... the tricky bit is that incest was necessary at the time of Adam and Eve hence condoned......and polygamy was the norm in biblical times.

Then you are saying condemning homosexuality is OK? I mean you found problems with all but that. If so, good for you.

What can the fact something used to be done, have a bearing on why is should be allowed or smiled upon today? What is your logic there?

Before the commandments or even mans laws were written, theft, murder, all kinds of bad things were legal, and they found that laws needed to be made to change that. A very reasonable action,
i think.

As for SSM - gee this has been done to death

I know, yet we still get some of the most preposterous of arguments on the subject.

 

[vinsight4u]

Churches should be free to marry whom they see fit, as part of their freedom of religion, but I don't think its just for the state to recognize some people's marriages and not others based on sex. The US Supreme Court agreed.

The Bible doesn't present one view of marriage. Some forms of marriage found in the Bible would be illegal today.

Israel was chosen to be taken out of the wicked nations. She was told to be holy, because He is holy. He took them out of Egypt to be their God.

Israel sinned greatly, and now we have the church.
A people started to make Israel jealous, then later a foolish nation will make her angry.
We are to be holy for He is holy. It is His laws that we are to follow. He has set the requirements for a person to meet to make it into the new earth/gain eternal life. He is the Judge, not us of what is against nature.
He has clearly shown that it is vile for men to burn for one another. These people are reprobate. That type of person will end up in hell, and later the lake of fire. To be cast away-cursed, rise in shame, to be everlastingly - abhorred by the just people. This is what needs told from the churches. The church is not to bend, but to lead, and teach the truth.

 

[vinsight4u]

I believe it is because they follow their ways not God. They have allowed the world and its ways to take root within their churches and prefer the praise and popularity of men rather than obedience to God.
The saddest thing is that by their false teaching (that homosexuality is ok), they are leading people into the lie (as Satan did in Eden) and to the pit. All because they are NOT following the Bible- Gods' word to us.

Another case of the weeds among the wheat we are to beware of this and stop thinking Christians biggest enemy is the world. It is the world as it has been allowed to infiltrate the churches, they are the most dangerous.

In my opinion there is only one way for the church to deal with homosexuality and that is to treat it as God does: Sin.
My belief is that if a person truly is attracted to the opposite sex, comes to Christ and still has those feelings, then they should be as any other unmarried Christian: Celibate. And they have to stay that way forever because it is wrong.
This is pretty much impossible in this day and age as so many churches now turn a blind eye to even heterosexual sin (sex before marriage, cohabitation etc) .

People, even children are being bombarded with this type of lifestyle via media, school, and more, too. The repeated times the country puts sodomy in front of them, the more comfortable they are getting with it, and making friends of people that are acting/believing that way. Same with living with each other before marriage. I saw a comment by a guy the other day....I wouldn't drive a car without testing it first, so why get a wife without doing the same thing? The words may not be exact, but the belief was that.

I also saw, if it is really true, I don't know, but - a statement as to half of the adults in the USA have had some form of sexual disease in their lifetime so far.
I'm in the other half.

 

[Zoii]

What can the fact something used to be done, have a bearing on why is should be allowed or smiled upon today? What is your logic there?

Thats my logic as well Kenny. The fact that in those ancient days homosexuality was condemned, why does that have a bearing today. It so inconsistent - The bible says to stone people for adultery...what bearing does that have on our response to it today.

My point is that the social norms of those days are not consistently regarded as needing to be maintained today...whether we are talking about giving our daughter to her rapist - or polygamy - or homosexuality. Social norms evolve, and that is why not all Christians support your adverse views of SSM

 

[Zoii]

I mean you found problems with all but that. If so, good for you.

Actually Kenny I dont have a problem with any of it. Personally, I feel if a woman wants to marry two guys well...heck - brave woman - but fine if it works out for everyone.

Incest though - I do have a problem with a father sexually assaulting his children. It is one of the issues I detest in the OT that all the children and parents must have familial sex if we accept the Adam and Eve ...and then Noahs Ark paradigm.

 

[vinsight4u]

Churches should be free to marry whom they see fit, as part of their freedom of religion, but I don't think its just for the state to recognize some people's marriages and not others based on sex. The US Supreme Court agreed.

The Bible doesn't present one view of marriage. Some forms of marriage found in the Bible would be illegal today.

Christ is the Head of the church.
We are His body.
We are to listen to Him, not the world as to how to live a holy life.

 

[Zoii]

I wouldn't drive a car without testing it first, so why get a wife without doing the same thing

I take your point that this sounds rather crude and distasteful.

But I think the view expressed may also have been talking about the benefit of living with someone before committing to marriage. That is - you get to know that person far better and are more capable of determining that YES, this is the person I love and am able to live with all my life.

 

[Zoii]

Christ is the Head of the church.
We are His body.
We are to listen to Him, not the world as to how to live a holy life.

Well...not if it refers to incest...giving daughters to rapists etc....Ive also heard people use verses to justify striking their wife...so we must certainly live in the secular world and obey its laws.

 

[JacobKStarkey]

How can a Christian support homosexual marriage?

How can a Christian support Donald J. Trump?

How can a Christian support what some Christians may consider bad theology by other Christians?

I think those questions are answered in the zone where the secular, public, faith spheres intersect.

 

[vinsight4u]

I take your point that this sounds rather crude and distasteful.

But I think the view expressed may also have been talking about the benefit of living with someone before committing to marriage. That is - you get to know that person far better and are more capable of determining that YES, this is the person I love and am able to live with all my life.

A person doesn't really understand love until they make an actual commitment to the other person. Living together without that vow to each other is not the same as the intimacy of being married. There is more of a bonding then.

 

[vinsight4u]

Well...not if it refers to incest...giving daughters to rapists etc....Ive also heard people use verses to justify striking their wife...so we must certainly live in the secular world and obey its laws.

Not sure if it's as to a bishop or elder part mentioned - but they are to be no striker...they have to be patient...

bishop - of good behavior

 

[Zoii]

A person doesn't really understand love until they make an actual commitment to the other person. Living together without that vow to each other is not the same as the intimacy of being married. There is more of a bonding then.

Well, I'm not in a position to speak from experience. I can only state that many people in my country are not married yet love each other dearly. I can also attest (As I volunteer in a womens shelter) that many women who are married live an abominable life with their husband.

So I dont think that what you espouse is a true and consistent standard....my point in any case isnt to NOT marry - but rather highlighting what that bumper sticker you referred to may have been espousing.

 

[Zoii]

Not sure if it's as to a bishop or elder part mentioned - but they are to be no striker...they have to be patient...

I didnt understand what you wrote.

 

[Vicomte13]

This is a question that I have been thinking about the last several days while discussing the topic on another thread. During the discussion, a "Christian" made a statement that it was "ignorant bigotry" to "keep someone from marrying the person they loved". This statement of course involved the marrying of a same sex couple. I will keep the individual anonymous. However, it just baffles me that someone who considers themselves "Christian" would have such an idea. How can a "Christian" rationalize supporting same sex marriage? Furthermore, how then could they at the same time reject polygamy and incest without having to rationalize a double standard?

Edit: I just wanted to add that after doing some research there are hundreds of church denominations and groups that accept LGBTQ individuals into their congregations. However, A few denominations, most notably the Metropolitan Community Churches (MCC), United Church of Christ (UCC), the Presbyterian Church (USA), The Episcopal Church and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) will perform same sex marriages. Source: gaychurch.org

I could present you an argument for a Christian supporting same sex marriage. It would be the same argument, in all of its essentials, that the Orthodox and other Churches make for allowing remarriage after divorce. I don't particularly enjoy the argument, but I'm a lawyer and I argue for the side that hires me all the time, regardless of my personal beliefs in something.

So if you really want a reasoned argument for same-sex marriage, I can give it to you. You have to actually want to hear the argument, though. If you're looking for somebody to stand up and argue for something you dislike so that you have a live target you can then bash to show your displeasure at their beliefs, I'm not interested in making the argument.

If you really want to understand how a traditional, believing Christian can support, or at least accept with equanimity same-sex marriage, I can explain it. Up to you.