How are you saved?

[ViaCrucis]

That He certainly did. Men are not robots, we can choose to believe or deny. Jesus did not indicate, in any of scripture, that all would be saved.

Which is why Lutherans admit under the Crux Theologorum that the reason men are damned is because men damn themselves.

The Lutheran Confessions very explicitly teach that God is not like some military commander picking and choosing who does or doesn't get saved.

"Nor is this eternal election or ordination of God to eternal life to be considered in God’s secret, inscrutable counsel in such a bare manner as though it comprised nothing further, or as though nothing more belonged to it, and nothing more were to be considered in it, than that God foresaw who and how many were to be saved, who and how many were to be damned, or that He only held a [sort of military] muster, thus: 'This one shall be saved, that one shall be damned; this one shall remain steadfast [in faith to the end], that one shall not remain steadfast.'" - Solid Declaration of Concord, IX, 9

In this paragraph three ideas are rejected:

1) The first thing rejected is the idea that election is part of God's secret, inscrutable counsel; as according to Lutheranism our election is found in the revealed means of grace, e.g. Baptism. The baptized Christian is the elect of God, and their election is revealed in their baptism.

2) The second thing being rejected is the idea that God's election and predestining of the elect consists merely in having foreknowledge of how many in the end would be saved and how many will be damned. On the contrary, Predestination is indeed efficient cause of our salvation--God choosing us is not mere foreknowledge, but actual choice made by God out of His grace and love toward sinners in Jesus Christ.

3) The third being rejected is the idea that God picks and chooses who will or who will not be saved, the idea often called "Double Predestination", a position linked with Calvinism/Reformed theology.

What God wills and who will are two different things.

I believe that we must cooperate with God in our lives of faith and good works as Jesus' followers, what the Apostle describes as "working out your salvation with fear and trembling".

But I'm not the one responsible for having faith, God is. God is the giver of faith to faithless sinners. Which is why St. Paul writes in Ephesians 2:8 that our salvation is by grace through faith, and this is not of ourselves, but is the gift of God. This faith comes from outside of ourselves, as gift; it cannot be attributed to ourselves. And this isn't mere "Protestant" opinion; this is also the opinion of the ancient and holy fathers, including both St. Augustine and St. John Chrysostom: Faith itself is a gift that we receive from God, from outside of ourselves, so that we cannot even boast in our having faith.

"And lest men should arrogate to themselves the merit of their own faith at least, not understanding that this too is the gift of God, this same apostle, who says in another place that he had 'obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful,' here also adds, 'and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast.' And lest it should be thought that good works will be wanting in those who believe, he adds further: 'For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.' We shall be made truly free, then, when God fashions us, that is, forms and creates us anew, not as men--for He has done that already--but as good men, which His grace is now doing, that we may be a new creation in Christ Jesus, according as it is said: 'Create in me a clean heart O God.'" - St. Augustine, The Enchiridion, Ch. 31

The holy doctor also saying in the preceding chapter of the same,

"But this part of the human race to which God has promised pardon and a share in His eternal kingdom, can they be restored through the merit of their own works? God forbid. For what good work can a lost man perform, except so far as he has been delivered from perdition? Can they do anything by the free determination of their own will? Again I say, God forbid. For it was by the evil use of his free-will that man destroyed both it and himself. For, as a man who kills himself must, of course, be alive when he kills himself, but after he has killed himself ceases to live, and cannot restore himself to life; so, when man by his own free-will sinned, then sin being victorious over him, the freedom of his will was lost. 'For of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.' This is the judgment of the Apostle Peter. And as it is certainly true, what kind of liberty, I ask, can the bond-slave possess, except when it pleases him to sin? For he is freely in bondage who does with pleasure the will of his master. Accordingly, he who is the servant of sin is free to sin. And hence he will not be free to do right, until, being freed from sin, he shall begin to be the servant of righteousness. And this is true liberty, for he has pleasure in the righteous deed; and it is at the same time a holy bondage, for he is obedient to the will of God. But whence comes this liberty to do right to the man who is in bondage and sold under sin, except he be redeemed by Him who has said, 'If the Son shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed?' And before this redemption is wrought in a man, when he is not yet free to do what is right, how can he talk of the freedom of his will and his good works, except he be inflated by that foolish pride of boasting which the apostle restrains when he says, 'By grace are ye saved, through faith.'" - ibid. Ch. 30

It is by the freedom of the will by grace that the renewed heart, clean conscience, and redeemed will can cooperate with God in good works.

God has willed to save me, that by His grace and power He might give me a will to love Him through good works and obedience: To love my neighbor as my self according to His Divine and Royal Command. And in this way take up my cross and follow Him.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Yes! I agree. And the dividing line between those who come to Him or fail to come, who open the door or refuse to do so, seems to be determined or to lie somewhere between grace and the human will.

I would argue that the line is between those who say to God "Your will be done" and those to whom God says, "Your will be done".

The fallen human will, left to its own devices, always chooses sin and death.

I am entirely dependent on God who loves me in Jesus Christ. His love for me, a sinner, saves me; we love because He first loved us says St. John. Without God, without God proactively coming here, without the Gospel meeting us right where we are--we are entirely hopeless.

If you want to argue that following Jesus means actually being faithful and obedient to Jesus Christ and not lazily saying, "I've believed the minimum requirements to get to heaven" I am 1,000% in agreement. And that's because I'm a Lutheran, such an idea is entirely incompatible with Lutheranism.

Where, as a Lutheran, I am being emphatic is that I cannot take credit for my salvation. I don't get to say, "God saved me because I..." Because God didn't save me because of me. God saved me because of Himself. God saves me because that's who God is--the God who saves lowly wretched sinners.

It is because I'm a sinner, because I am a wayward sheep that is always trying to wander off because I'm a sinner that does dumb stuff that I have to rely on, trust, the Good Shepherd. He is the One who brought me into the sheepfold, He is the One that guards me against beasts and robbers, He is the One who guides me through the valleys and mountains--His shepherd's crook pulling me away from the sharp cliff edge.

So when at the end of my days and I find that I am on the other side, I will not be able to look back at my life and say, "Dang, I sure did good" I will only be able to fall down and give thanks to the Shepherd for everything.

I cooperate with God, not to add my works to the perfect works of God; I cooperate with God that my works might be filled with God as my neighbor's hungry belly is filled and parched lips are given drink.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[d taylor]

Paul disagrees with you on two counts.

1. In Gal 5:19-21, Paul warns believers that those who commit serious sin "will not inherit the kingdom of God".

2. He is therefore referring what Catholics call "mortal sin".

Yes but Paul did not say they would not enter, He said inherit.

Inherit means in The Bible just like it means in everyday use. Inherit the Kingdom is connected to, inherit like if a son was to not inherit from their family.

Christians Who Lose Their Legacy – Galatians 5:21 – Grace Evangelical Society

Make Inheriting Your Goal (1 Corinthians 6:10) – Grace Evangelical Society

 

[fhansen]

But I'm not the one responsible for having faith, God is. God is the giver of faith to faithless sinners. Which is why St. Paul writes in Ephesians 2:8 that our salvation is by grace through faith, and this is not of ourselves, but is the gift of God. This faith comes from outside of ourselves, as gift; it cannot be attributed to ourselves. And this isn't mere "Protestant" opinion; this is also the opinion of the ancient and holy fathers, including both St. Augustine and St. John Chrysostom: Faith itself is a gift that we receive from God, from outside of ourselves, so that we cannot even boast in our having faith.

The overall consensus of the ancient fathers, including St John Chrysostom incidentally, is that we'll be judged on what we did-or failed to do -while in these bodies, in this life, recognizing that anything we do is still a matter of grace, done by us in concert with the Spirit. Based mainly on Augustine the church formulated the canons of the 2nd Council of Orange in 529 where the absolute necessity of grace in order for a man to turn to God in faith is set down in no uncertain terms. Man can still say "no" then or later, and yet he cannot possibly say "yes" without God moving him to that point.

But from that point of "yes", whereupon he's justified (formally at Baptism), man must now strive, he must work out his salvation, with that justice, that righteousness, that grace, that love, which is the direct fruit or consequence of entering fellowship with God, becoming new creations of His in a partnership which involves life by the Spirit.

 

[fhansen]

I would argue that the line is between those who say to God "Your will be done" and those to whom God says, "Your will be done".

Ok-and I see no major distinction between that and the way I put it.

The fallen human will, left to its own devices, always chooses sin and death.

Pretty much the case, all right. Only in union with God can we have any hope of being who we were created to be. And this is why the first right step for man is to turn back to Him in faith, with even that impossible without His help.

Where, as a Lutheran, I am being emphatic is that I cannot take credit for my salvation. I don't get to say, "God saved me because I..." Because God didn't save me because of me. God saved me because of Himself. God saves me because that's who God is--the God who saves lowly wretched sinners.

And yet he apparently doesn't save all wretched sinners, but only those who turn to Him in faith, and then continue to remain in Him and do His will to the best extent they can. God, it just so happens, wants man's will involved, for our highest good, even though He needs nothing of or from us. Faith, as with hope and love, is a gift, but also a human choice. To the extent that He draws us into the right choice our justice or righteousness is all the greater, defined best by our coming to love Him with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength and our neighbor as ourselves.

God's intention in all this is to produce something, something greater than He began with rather than just saving a portion of otherwise worthless, sinful, wretches. He loves man lavishly, and knows his potential, having been made in His own image, and not having been made to sin, BTW. It's a patient endeavor of His, requiring centuries of cultivation of man, of educating us through trial and experience together with revelation and grace to bring us to the point where we might just be able to accept the light, when the time was ripe, of His full revelation in Jesus Christ. So that we might be all the more ready to choose rightly when He comes to call. Otherwise He may as well have just prevented Adam from sinning to begin with, or stocked heaven with the elect and hell with the rest at the beginning-and avoided all the ugly sin and human suffering down through the centuries- if that's all that's accomplished anyway by the end of the day. The Cross, itself, gives blaring testimony to the fact that God humbly draws us to Himself, by His love, rather than totally overwhelming us in that movement. The human will is actually the "prize", so to speak.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The overall consensus of the ancient fathers, including St John Chrysostom incidentally, is that we'll be judged on what we did-or failed to do -while in these bodies, in this life, recognizing that anything we do is still a matter of grace, done by us in concert with the Spirit. Based mainly on Augustine the church formulated the canons of the 2nd Council of Orange in 529 where the absolute necessity of grace in order for a man to turn to God in faith is set down in no uncertain terms. Man can still say "no" then or later, and yet he cannot possibly say "yes" without God moving him to that point.

There's nothing in that paragraph that I'd disagree with as a Lutheran.

But from that point of "yes", whereupon he's justified (formally at Baptism), man must now strive, he must work out his salvation, with that justice, that righteousness, that grace, that love, which is the direct fruit or consequence of entering fellowship with God, becoming new creations of His in a partnership which involves life by the Spirit.

Insofar as our justification is always understood as God declaring us just based upon the perfect merit of Christ alone, that Christ Himself and alone is our righteousness before God; I fully agree with this.

Where I'm certain we differ is that I maintain that justification and sanctification ought to be understood as very distinct things: working out our salvation in fear in trembling is sanctification, our cooperation with God through good works; such does not render us just or righteous before God (Coram Deo), but rather righteous before our fellow human beings (Coram Mundus or Coram Hominibus).

What I am before God is found exclusively in Christ apart from myself as pure grace.
What I am being made into is the power and work of God through the Spirit lived in good works for our neighbor.

Through sanctification we are being conformed to the image of Christ, undergoing Theosis until the last and final day.

Justification is the declaration of man as righteous before God on Christ's account. Not, as in Reformed theology as merely the starting point of faith; it is the always-and-ever present reality that we are justified before God in Christ. So, for example, I am justified before God in the Eucharist.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Danthemailman]

faith without works is dead (James 2:26)

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. That would be like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree and the fruit is the source of life in the tree.

James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14)

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converge around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

Man is saved through faith apart from the merit of works (Romans 4:2-6) yet authentic faith does not remain alone/apart from the presence of works. (James 2:14-24)

 

[Buzzard3]

Somehow I don't think God would want to spend eternity with someone who doesn't love him and doesn't obey him ... in which case, why would God save such a person?

Then why did God come to love and save sinners who despise Him? Christ died for us in our sin, our ungodliness, in our enmity against God.

" For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM should not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,
nor the heart of man conceived,
what God has prepared FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM” (1Cor 2:9)

Christ said He did not come to call the righteous but the unrighteous to repentance.

You said it ... "to repentance".

 

[Buzzard3]

You do not understand the power of the cross, salvation cannot be lost.

John 3:14 'And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.' When Israel disobeyed in the dessert and God send deadly snakes, all the Hebrews had to do when bitten by a snake is to look upon cross with faith. They did not have to do anything else, so it is with Jesus.

Salvation cannot be gained, nor can be lost, it is a gift which is either accepted or rejected. Jesus died for the blood, His precious blood is enough to wipe every sin of every man, but one must believe, John 3:18 ' Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.'

If salvation could be lost, believe me, we are all stupid enough to lose it. Jesus said He will not lose one of His sheep, if salvation could be lost, Jesus would lose His sheep and therefore He lied, which we know that God does not lie.

Where in the Bible you see that salvation can be lost? Who taught you such blasphemy? Please, how a good look on the power of the cross and what work Jesus done on the cross. 'It is finished'.

God knows who will be saved - we don't. That's why salvation is described as a "HOPE" (ie, not a certainty) in more than 20 NT verses.

 

[Buzzard3]

I believe I can address the confusion between you and @Buzzard3 along these lines: when we are moved by the Holy Ghost to have faith in God, and are received into the Church, grafted onto the Body of Christ through Baptism, we repent, which is to say, change our mind*, from hating God to loving God.

*@Buzzard3 the Greek word translated as repentance is metanoia, which means to change ones mind, so for instance when we repent of sin, we are changing our mind about our sinful behavior, deciding that what we had done was evil and that we should henceforth abstain from it. It is as a symbol of metanoia that Byzantine Rite (Eastern Catholic and Eastern Orthodox) clergy hold the unconsecrated prosphora (leavened Eucharistic bread) to their forehead in the Prothesis that occurs before every Divine Liturgy (or Mass, as it is called by western Catholics and Lutherans).

Repentance is the turning away from sin and towards God. It begins in the mind but is expressed in actions and works:

"Repent, and be baptised every one of you ..." (Acts 2:38)

"repent and do the works you did at first" (Rev 2:5)

"she refuses to repent of her immorality" (Rev 2:21)

"The rest of mankind ... did not repent of the works of their hands ... of their murders or their sorceries or their immorality or their thefts." (Rev 9:

"Do you not know that God has called you to repentance? ... For he will render to each man according to his works ..." (Romans 2:4-6).

" and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God and perform deeds worthy of their repentance." (Acts 26:20).

"I may have to mourn over many of those who sinned before and have not repented of the impurity, immorality, and licentiousness which they have practiced." (2Cor 12:21)

 

[ViaCrucis]

" For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM should not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

Right, all who trust in Christ have their salvation in Christ. That doesn't mean that we bring ourselves to God by our own power, faith isn't a work we do that earns us salvation.

Faith is the gift of God through the Gospel (Romans 10:17) through which God freely justifies us by His grace on Christ's account.

“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,
nor the heart of man conceived,
what God has prepared FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM” (1Cor 2:9)

Yes. God by His grace having redeemed us and justified us and having regenerated us has transformed us from those hostile to Him and has given us a clean and pure heart to love Him. We love Him because He first loved us.

You said it ... "to repentance".

Right. Which is why the call upon our lives from the Lord is to take up our cross and follow Him, by living a life of repentance, faith, and good works. Not as the way we earn God's favor or merit anything from God--but because that is what the regenerated person does. Jesus said, "If you love Me, obey what I have commanded". The call of the Christian is the life of discipleship, of carrying our cross--of dying daily to the old man in repentance and the free gift of life and justification that renews, regenerates, by which the new man is created and is nourished by God's grace through faith.

None of this, however, means that God chooses to save those who have earned their way by being good enough, loving enough, or righteous enough (no matter by what metric one uses). God chose to save us not out of anything worthwhile in us, but out of His great love for us sinners.

God chose to save you, a sinner. Not the you that one day might be a saint, but the you that was conceived in your mother's womb full of sin and death and hatred and enmity against God. The you that disobeyed your parents, the you that did what you ought not do, the you that continued to sin day in and day out--even until this very moment. This you, this sinner you, that's who Jesus came to save. Because God loves you. Not because you loved Him.

By the grace of God we are being trained to love God, but through our daily actions we manifestly demonstrate that we do not love God and still have enmity toward Him in our flesh. St. John writes, "Anyone who says they love God but hates their brother is a liar." (1 John 4:20), for how we treat our brother and our neighbor is how we treat God; we do not love God except by how we love our fellow human beings.

When we stand before the Throne of Judgment on that Great and Final Day, none of us is getting through because we "loved God" enough. Every sinful thought, feeling, word, and action, all will be exposed to the light; and every wicked work shall be consumed in fire like kindling.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Buzzard3]

In Gal 5:19-21, Paul warns believers that those who commit serious sin "will not inherit the kingdom of God".

Yes but Paul did not say they would not enter, He said inherit.

Nice try, but no cigar.

"will not inherit" in that verse means "will not enter".

In other words, Paul is preaching salvation thru faith and works.

 

[The Liturgist]

.

 

[The Liturgist]

Repentance is the turning away from sin and towards God. It begins in the mind but is expressed in actions and works:

Indeed so. I am simply explaining what the Greek word for repentance, metanoia, literally means, which is to change our mind (and thus our behavior) and how that meaning is liturgically expressed by Byzantine Rite Catholic priests and Eastern Orthodox priests in the Liturgy of Preparation, which is fairly elaborate compared to every other rite, even the West Syriac Rite.

 

[The Liturgist]

Right, all who trust in Christ have their salvation in Christ. That doesn't mean that we bring ourselves to God by our own power, faith isn't a work we do that earns us salvation.

Faith is the gift of God through the Gospel (Romans 10:17) through which God freely justifies us by His grace on Christ's account.



Yes. God by His grace having redeemed us and justified us and having regenerated us has transformed us from those hostile to Him and has given us a clean and pure heart to love Him. We love Him because He first loved us.



Right. Which is why the call upon our lives from the Lord is to take up our cross and follow Him, by living a life of repentance, faith, and good works. Not as the way we earn God's favor or merit anything from God--but because that is what the regenerated person does. Jesus said, "If you love Me, obey what I have commanded". The call of the Christian is the life of discipleship, of carrying our cross--of dying daily to the old man in repentance and the free gift of life and justification that renews, regenerates, by which the new man is created and is nourished by God's grace through faith.

None of this, however, means that God chooses to save those who have earned their way by being good enough, loving enough, or righteous enough (no matter by what metric one uses). God chose to save us not out of anything worthwhile in us, but out of His great love for us sinners.

God chose to save you, a sinner. Not the you that one day might be a saint, but the you that was conceived in your mother's womb full of sin and death and hatred and enmity against God. The you that disobeyed your parents, the you that did what you ought not do, the you that continued to sin day in and day out--even until this very moment. This you, this sinner you, that's who Jesus came to save. Because God loves you. Not because you loved Him.

By the grace of God we are being trained to love God, but through our daily actions we manifestly demonstrate that we do not love God and still have enmity toward Him in our flesh. St. John writes, "Anyone who says they love God but hates their brother is a liar." (1 John 4:20), for how we treat our brother and our neighbor is how we treat God; we do not love God except by how we love our fellow human beings.

When we stand before the Throne of Judgment on that Great and Final Day, none of us is getting through because we "loved God" enough. Every sinful thought, feeling, word, and action, all will be exposed to the light; and every wicked work shall be consumed in fire like kindling.

-CryptoLutheran

Just out of curiosity have you ever read the works of St. John Cassian? Historically they were preferred in both the Eastern and Western churches to St. Augustine. Of course Luther was an Augustinian and one expects Augustinian influence in classical Lutheran theology, so I am not criticizing you, I am merely curious if you were acquainted with the author of the alternative refutation of Pelagius that was originally more popular, and is still completely dominant among the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, despite being a Latin theologian (the Orthodox also love St. Ambrose, St. Isidore of Seville and St. Vincent of Lerins, and the Eastern Orthodox really love St. Gregory the Great).

Fun fact: until the past 150 years or so, there wasn’t even a troparion and kontakion to commemorate St. Augustine in the Eastern Orthodox Church, and while the Oriental Orthodox theoretically regard him as a saint, I don’t believe he is on their liturgical calendar, unlike, for example, Pope St. Sixtus, who has an entire anaphora commemorating him in the Syriac Orthodox Church.

 

[Buzzard3]

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. That would be like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree and the fruit is the source of life in the tree.

James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14)

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converge around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

Man is saved through faith apart from the merit of works (Romans 4:2-6) yet authentic faith does not remain alone/apart from the presence of works. (James 2:14-24)

What James means by "faith without works is dead" is that salvation is not through faith alone ... "a man is justified by works and not by faith alone" (James 2:24).

Man is saved through faith apart from the merit of works (Romans 4:2-6)

Paul preaches the same message of salvation thru faith and works that James does:
In Gal 5 and 1Cor 6, Paul warns believers that their sins (works) can result in them not inheriting the kingdom of heaven.
In Romans 6, Paul warns believers that "the wages of sin is death".

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

God knows who will be saved - we don't. That's why salvation is described as a "HOPE" (ie, not a certainty) in more than 20 NT verses.

Born again Christians know they are saved already. You can examine yourself and know whether you walk in the Holy Spirit or not. Especially in persecution, millions were martyred, yet even when they were tortured, and they children were tortured, they did not deny Christ, but prayed for their enemies. Such fruit of the Spirit cannot be produced by unsaved.

Now, it is true that even the fake Christians think they are saved as they are blinded by their own sin.

Now do you want to explain where in the Bible you read that salvation can be lost? It is a false teaching, please study this carefully.

 

[The Liturgist]

Now do you want to explain where in the Bible you read that salvation can be lost? It is a false teaching, please study this carefully.

It’s hardly a false teaching considering there are around 200 verses in the New Testament, in the Gospels, the Epistles and I would argue, Acts, that contradict OSAS. Fortunately for my aching hands I do not have to type them, since someone kindly compiled 170 of them.*

The only way you can get any form of OSAS is with Calvinist predestination, but you can’t get there while retaining the Patristic - Arminian or Lutheran soteriological models. And the only way you can do that is to deny theee people were saved in the first place, which is possible, although as an interpretive model its more of a stretch and relies very heavily on St. Augustine, being much less “sola scriptura” than claimed.

*Note that the link is not an endorsement of their doctrine or of evert verse they put forward as an example of OSAS; I reject OSAS because the Early Church Fathers, even St. Augustine, rejected it, unanimously, and when we’re talking about people like St. Athanasius who defended the Christian faith in the deity of our Lord against Arius at Nicaea, and was the originator of our current 27 book New Testament canon (all canons proposed prior to that which he, blazing a new trail, ordered in the Church of Alexandria in an encyclical to the bishops of under his Patriarchal jurisdiction, made mandatory, were mere suggestions, and differed from the Athanasian canon by either including books he deprecated, like the Shepherd of Hermas, or excluding books that he included, for example, Jude, James, Hebrews, 2 John, 3 John, the Pastoral Epistles of Paul and the Apocalypse), or St. Basil the Great, who invented the hospital, or St. Irenaeus of Lyons, who discredited Gnosticism and insisted on the use of only our four canonical Gospels, their view is sufficiently authoritative to convince me. But for those who require scripture, the evidence is overwhelming. I would also note that while I cannot refute Calvinism scripturally, I can refute the idea that a Calvinist can be certain of their election during this lifetime, because the same verses that refute an Arminian OSAS also make it impossible for a Calvinist to be certain of the authenticity of their faith.

This is of benefit, because Christians who are utterly confident in their sanctity and election may be tempted by pride and may be more easily lured into immoral conduct based on spiritual delusion based on a false sense of security. This makes OSAS a dangerous doctrine, because it does nothing to promote good works, which most believers in Sola Fide consider to be the fruits of a living faith.

 

[Danthemailman]

What James means by "faith without works is dead" is that salvation is not through faith alone ... "a man is justified by works and not by faith alone" (James 2:24).

Paul preaches the same message of salvation thru faith and works that James does: In Gal 5 and 1Cor 6, Paul warns believers that their sins (works) can result in them not inheriting the kingdom of heaven. In Romans 6, Paul warns believers that "the wages of sin is death".

In regards to James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous,such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are evidences for, or against a man being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." That is the "sense" in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

So man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is substantiated, evidenced by works. (James 2:14-24)

Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God. (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9)

Galatians 5:21 - ..those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 Corinthians 6:9 clearly states that it’s the unrighteous (unbelievers) who will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Paul clearly states in Romans 3:23 that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. (Unbelievers and believers alike). In Romans 6:23 we see that the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. *Only believers will receive eternal life through Jesus Christ.

 

[The Liturgist]

In regards to James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

While you may be right, epistemologically, such a conclusion regarding the meaning St. James had in mind is unknowable. So, basically, your hypothesis is valid, but untestable on a sola scriptura basis, as is that of @Buzzard3 .

Tested against the interpretation of the early church however @Buzzard3 appears to be correct. But it goes without saying that not everyone accepts that standard.