How are you saved?

[ViaCrucis]

Being fully aware of just how long my previous post is--which is one of my bad habbits on this forum. Let me offer a far more brief version:

What saves me is God came down. God always comes down, I don't go up. God meets me, a sinner, in Jesus and through God's Means of Grace. And there God actually accomplishes in me and for me what He promises. I am justified because He justifies me--not because I am holy, not because I am good, not because I am obedient, not because I love Him, not because I believe the right things, not because I say "yes" to Him.

God comes down, jumps in, and takes us with Him kicking and screaming all along the way.

God justifies the unjust.
God loves the unlovely.
God values the worthless.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BobRyan]

Rom 10:9 if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.”

That is what we do to accept salvation.

If the question is "how does God offer salvation?" then we have many points regarding the work of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit to discuss.

 

[Randy777]

That is what we do to accept salvation.

If the question is "how does God offer salvation?" then we have many points regarding the work of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit to discuss.

Jesus=>It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
The prophets=>So he said to me, “This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel: ‘Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,’ says the LORD Almighty.
Paul=>Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Buzzard3]

Recently I learned about the Catholic meaning of born again - being baptized. There seems to be verses in the Bible that agree with this. I studied it a little bit more, and - correct me if I’m wrong - it seems like Catholics also think that there are certain sins that you can’t commit or else you don’t go to heaven?

That's true. In the Catholic faith, those sins are called "mortal" sins, and include murder, adultery, abortion. But these sins (and all sins) can be absolved (forgiven) through the Sacrament of Reconciliation (aka Confession), which is administered by a priest (cf John 20: 22-23 ... "And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”)

I’ve only ever heard that you have to believe in Jesus, and then you are saved, and I never thought that anyone could think differently.

Basically, you are saved by loving God and expressing your love of God by keeping his commandments (John 14:15).

Paul, for example, preaches that even if you have faith, serious sin can land you in hell:
"Now the works of the flesh are plain: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD" (Gal 5:19-21).

Paul issues a similar warning in 1 Cor 6:9-10 ...
"Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God?
Do not be deceived:
Neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor homosexuals nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

1 John 2:3-5 says
"And by this we may be sure that we KNOW HIM (Jesus), if we KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. He who says “I know him” but disobeys his commandments is a LIAR, and THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM; but whoever keeps his word, in him truly love for God is perfected."

So you are not saved by faith alone, but by faith and obedience ... as James 2:24 says:
"a man is justifed by works and not by faith alone".
("works" is simply obeying God's commandments, also known as holiness.)

To repent means to stop sinning and start living a holy life by obeying God's commandments.

 

[fhansen]

Being fully aware of just how long my previous post is--which is one of my bad habbits on this forum. Let me offer a far more brief version:

What saves me is God came down. God always comes down, I don't go up. God meets me, a sinner, in Jesus and through God's Means of Grace. And there God actually accomplishes in me and for me what He promises. I am justified because He justifies me--not because I am holy, not because I am good, not because I am obedient, not because I love Him, not because I believe the right things, not because I say "yes" to Him.

God comes down, jumps in, and takes us with Him kicking and screaming all along the way.

God justifies the unjust.
God loves the unlovely.
God values the worthless.

-CryptoLutheran

Hmm, that’s sounds awful Calvinistic, no? I mean, you have no choice in the matter whatsoever? Can’t even muster a “no”? And therefore those who aren’t saved God apparently doesn’t bother coming down for? We don’t open the door; He either barges in or doesn’t even bother knocking?

 

[Buzzard3]

not because I am obedient, not because I love Him

Somehow I don't think God would want to spend eternity with someone who doesn't love him and doesn't obey him ... in which case, why would God save such a person?

 

[Buzzard3]

Even the demons believed in Jesus.

...and Judas.

 

[Buzzard3]

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you’re saved.

faith without works is dead (James 2:26)

 

[Buzzard3]

Repentance means to change your mind about who God is.

To repent can mean, stop sinning and start keeping God's commandments.

 

[A_Thinker]

Hmm, that’s sounds awful Calvinistic, no? I mean, you have no choice in the matter whatsoever? Can’t even muster a “no”? And therefore those who aren’t saved God apparently doesn’t bother coming down for? We don’t open the door; He either barges in or doesn’t even bother knocking?

Which doesn't accord with His description in Revelation 3:20

"Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me."

 

[Buzzard3]

You are saved when you are born of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit acts as a seal that cannot be broken. You are forever a child of God.

No one knows they are saved until after they die, when Christ grants them eternal on Judgement Day. That's why salvation is described as a "hope" (ie, not a certainty) in more than twenty NT verses.

The "seal" of the Holy Spirit is conditional - it can be broken by loss of faith or serious sin. It is not an irrevocable ticket to Heaven.

 

[Buzzard3]

John 20:23 is often misunderstood. 'If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”

This verse does not give authority to Christians to forgive sins, only God can do that.

Only God can hold "the keys of the kingdom of heaven", yet Jesus gave those "keys" to a man (Matt 16:18-19).

Only God can cast out demons, cure the sick and raise the dead, yet God gave that power to certain Christians.

Jesus was saying that the believer can boldly declare the certainty of a sinner’s forgiveness by the Father because of the work of His son if that sinner has repented and believed the gospel.

That applies to sins committed before Baptism, but not sins committed after Baptism. God does not turn a blind eye to a believer's sins.

 

[Buzzard3]

Mortal sin is a human created idea. Sin is not an issue concerning a person and them receiving God's free gift of eternal Life.

Paul disagrees with you on two counts.

1. In Gal 5:19-21, Paul warns believers that those who commit serious sin "will not inherit the kingdom of God".

2. He is therefore referring what Catholics call "mortal sin".

 

[Bob S]

No one knows they are saved until after they die, when Christ grants them eternal on Judgement Day. That's why salvation is described as a "hope" (ie, not a certainty) in more than twenty NT verses.

The "seal" of the Holy Spirit is conditional - it can be broken by loss of faith or serious sin. It is not an irrevocable ticket to Heaven.

I guess you have not read all the promises in the Holy Writ. The following one according to you should not be there and how about Jn3:16 and Jn5:24.
Jude
New Catholic Bible

24 Doxology. Now to him who is able to keep you from falling and to bring you safely to his glorious presence, unblemished and rejoicing, 25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ, our Lord, be glory, majesty, power, and authority, before all time, now, and forevermore. Amen.

God said it and I believe it. Why do you think God has given each of us the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? 2Cor 3:6-11

Yes, I do believe we can, of our own will, fall out of grace, but we know good and well when that happens. Keep our eyes on the target, accept Jesus forgiving power and our eternal life is secure.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Hmm, that’s sounds awful Calvinistic, no? I mean, you have no choice in the matter whatsoever? Can’t even muster a “no”? And therefore those who aren’t saved God apparently doesn’t bother coming down for? We don’t open the door; He either barges in or doesn’t even bother knocking?

We can say no. And God came down for--Christ died for--everyone.

I'm not a Calvinist. I believe God wills and desires that all be saved. And by "all" I mean everyone, all-inclusively, everybody.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Somehow I don't think God would want to spend eternity with someone who doesn't love him and doesn't obey him ... in which case, why would God save such a person?

Then why did God come to love and save sinners who despise Him? Christ died for us in our sin, our ungodliness, in our enmity against God.

Christ said He did not come to call the righteous but the unrighteous to repentance. It isn't the healthy who need a physician, but the sick.

God doesn't go and find those worthy, but finds the unworthy and gives them worth; He finds the poor and makes them rich, He finds the sick and makes them well, He finds the unlovely and makes them lovely.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

No one knows they are saved until after they die, when Christ grants them eternal on Judgement Day. That's why salvation is described as a "hope" (ie, not a certainty) in more than twenty NT verses.

The "seal" of the Holy Spirit is conditional - it can be broken by loss of faith or serious sin. It is not an irrevocable ticket to Heaven.

You do not understand the power of the cross, salvation cannot be lost.

John 3:14 'And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.' When Israel disobeyed in the dessert and God send deadly snakes, all the Hebrews had to do when bitten by a snake is to look upon cross with faith. They did not have to do anything else, so it is with Jesus.

Salvation cannot be gained, nor can be lost, it is a gift which is either accepted or rejected. Jesus died for the blood, His precious blood is enough to wipe every sin of every man, but one must believe, John 3:18 ' Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.'

If salvation could be lost, believe me, we are all stupid enough to lose it. Jesus said He will not lose one of His sheep, if salvation could be lost, Jesus would lose His sheep and therefore He lied, which we know that God does not lie.

Where in the Bible you see that salvation can be lost? Who taught you such blasphemy? Please, how a good look on the power of the cross and what work Jesus done on the cross. 'It is finished'.

 

[The Liturgist]

Then why did God come to love and save sinners who despise Him? Christ died for us in our sin, our ungodliness, in our enmity against God.

Christ said He did not come to call the righteous but the unrighteous to repentance. It isn't the healthy who need a physician, but the sick.

-CryptoLutheran

I believe I can address the confusion between you and @Buzzard3 along these lines: when we are moved by the Holy Ghost to have faith in God, and are received into the Church, grafted onto the Body of Christ through Baptism, we repent, which is to say, change our mind*, from hating God to loving God.

*@Buzzard3 the Greek word translated as repentance is metanoia, which means to change ones mind, so for instance when we repent of sin, we are changing our mind about our sinful behavior, deciding that what we had done was evil and that we should henceforth abstain from it. It is as a symbol of metanoia that Byzantine Rite (Eastern Catholic and Eastern Orthodox) clergy hold the unconsecrated prosphora (leavened Eucharistic bread) to their forehead in the Prothesis that occurs before every Divine Liturgy (or Mass, as it is called by western Catholics and Lutherans).

 

[Bob S]

We can say no. And God came down for--Christ died for--everyone.

That He certainly did. Men are not robots, we can choose to believe or deny. Jesus did not indicate, in any of scripture, that all would be saved.

I'm not a Calvinist. I believe God wills and desires that all be saved. And by "all" I mean everyone, all-inclusively, everybody.

What God wills and who will are two different things.

 

[fhansen]

We can say no. And God came down for--Christ died for--everyone.

I'm not a Calvinist. I believe God wills and desires that all be saved. And by "all" I mean everyone, all-inclusively, everybody.

-CryptoLutheran

Yes! I agree. And the dividing line between those who come to Him or fail to come, who open the door or refuse to do so, seems to be determined or to lie somewhere between grace and the human will.