How a literal 7 day creation can work with evolution claims without changing a word of either

[BNR32FAN]

You said the NASB1995‬‬ said "yom" day or time. when in fact it does not mention day or time. I want a point of reference that supports your assertion. I show that the NASB translates the passage as from the DAY you touch the fruit.

Your quoting the wrong verse. We were discussing Genesis 2:17, that’s the verse I quoted in the post you replied to. I never quoted Genesis 3.

“but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2‬:‭17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the time that you eat from it you will surely die.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2‬:‭16‬-‭17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Now I did change the word day to time in this translation just because I do typically use the NASB but it does fit both the translation and the context of the story.

Genesis 2:17 Lexicon: but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

 

[drich0150]

Your quoting the wrong verse. We were discussing Genesis 2:17, that’s the verse I quoted in the post you replied to. I never quoted Genesis 3.

“but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2‬:‭17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬



Genesis 2:17 Lexicon: but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

I was quoting genesis 3 where eve said it to satan. but either way is good as the usage is the same.

if you can't see this image then here is a ink:
H3117 - yôm - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)

go down to the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon. then expand down to see the whole image. next read down starting at the third paragraph labeled "The day of anyone is specially" (a good or B bad) start reading definition and usage "b". you will see there that they (Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon) translates Gen 2:17 as a literal day of their destruction. now keep reading to the second (b) and you will see the specifically reference genesis 2:17. meaning the word contextually means a 24 hour day. the use here is compared to the same 24 hour period referenced in the 7 days of creation, but rather a good thing it is a bad thing/destruction.

So if you believe in the seven literal days of creation then you must also believe that Adam and Eve died the same DAY they touched the fruit ending what ever life they previously enjoyed in the company of god and being exiled to earth/outside of the garden.. which brings us back to, do you think God lied to Adam and Eve about the day of their destruction or was he telling them the truth and whatever they were with him in the garden did in fact die, which would then make since his 930 years is in fact the time he spent on earth.

 

[JacksBratt]

again sport your not listening or you still do not understand.

College professors know if they can destroy the viability of the very first story in the Bible NONE of the other stories or accounts will EVER be considered.

Genesis is the foundation to the whole bible. you destroy the foundation you destroy their faith in everything else.

that's why I keep telling you that you argument is not valid here. because if the genesis foundation is destroyed the potential believer will not even consider anything else Jesus said or did.

again understand stand when I say this is not bout YOU What I mean is everything you listed about the the faith you had in your belief of Jesus' miracles represents a very small percentage of how most people's beliefs are structured. These professors who are breaking the faiths of 70% (by the 2nd year of college and 80% of our children's faiths by the time the complete a 4 year university program understand that if you destroy the foundation Genesis lays out and replace it with 'science' then everything else bible based will also be destroyed.

again they have an 80% success rate. meaning they do not get everyone but the do destroy the vast majority of our children's faith. the church will not last 2 more generations at this rate of attrition. it may not last one if we are not already past the point of no return.

and what I'm saying is IF you are one of these people who need to reconcile evolutionary theory with everything the Bible teaches including a 7 day creation, then this is a way one can do that without changing a word of either the Bible or evolutionary theory.

if someone is like you and can just "faith" their way into belief, then keep your YEC, teach it whatever. However if you know someone who needs to reconcile creation with evolution inorder to maintain or build a faith in God then know this allows for that.

This is why we are saved by faith... and.. faith alone.

My kids knew very well that academia would attack Genesis. It's low hanging fruit.

However, to state that teaching the six literal days is a stumbling block and causing kids to reject Christianity.... What do you expect to do? Teach them theistic evolution.... to avoid a difficult truth but still teach the miracles of Christ's life... all because salvation depends on that portion of scripture?

I've never trusted anyone that told me a half truth or "white lie" to get me to commit to something.

If kids can accept the miracles of the New Testament... and yet are swayed by academics that try to disprove the creation account.... well they're lost anyway.

My guess is that if it is that easy to convince someone that it was not six days... then Christ's life... is total fiction after that.

 

[JacksBratt]

Well there is this:

There are roughly three camps in America: (1) those who still cling to orthodox Darwinism on the grounds that no one has come up with a better explanation for the origin of species; (2) those (like Gould and Eldredge) who have concocted baroque refinements of the original theory, such as “punctuated equilibria,” in order to shelter it from empirical falsification; and (3) those, including a well-known group of “cladists,” who reject the theory altogether.

So sorry. I thought for sure I had attached this:

The Genesis Controversy: Darwin's Theory of Evolution Is Losing Support in the Scientific Community

 

[BNR32FAN]

I was quoting genesis 3 where eve said it to satan. but either way is good as the usage is the same.

if you can't see this image then here is a ink:
H3117 - yôm - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)

go down to the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon. then expand down to see the whole image. next read down starting at the third paragraph labeled "The day of anyone is specially" (a good or B bad) start reading definition and usage "b". you will see there that they (Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon) translates Gen 2:17 as a literal day of their destruction. now keep reading to the second (b) and you will see the specifically reference genesis 2:17. meaning the word contextually means a 24 hour day. the use here is compared to the same 24 hour period referenced in the 7 days of creation, but rather a good thing it is a bad thing/destruction.

So if you believe in the seven literal days of creation then you must also believe that Adam and Eve died the same DAY they touched the fruit ending what ever life they previously enjoyed in the company of god and being exiled to earth/outside of the garden.. which brings us back to, do you think God lied to Adam and Eve about the day of their destruction or was he telling them the truth and whatever they were with him in the garden did in fact die, which would then make since his 930 years is in fact the time he spent on earth.

The term “in the day” does not always mean on that specific day it can also mean in the time of.

Search Results

Go to this site and type in “in the day” and it will show you every verse in the scriptures that uses this term. Then search the internet and type the verse book & number reference followed by the word “lexicon” and click on the link that says biblehub.com and it will show you the word by word lexicon and you can compare all the verses in the Old Testament that contain that phrase. The usage your looking for is be-yo-vm. Some examples are in the day of calamity, in the day of battle, in the day of my trouble, in the day of the Lord, in the day of evil, in the day of temptation, in the day of prosperity, in the day of rain, all of these use the same usage of yom (be-yo-vm). These are referring to times. In the day of calamity means in times of calamity. In the day of battles doesn’t refer to one particular day of battle but all days of battle or in times of battle. In the day of my trouble means in troubled times. Some usages of the word do refer to an actual day but not all of them, others refer to various times or events. So Genesis 2:17 can mean in the time Adam eats of the forbidden fruit he will die and that interpretation doesn’t result in having to conclude that all the days that Adam actually lived were not actually counted in the scriptures and it doesn’t require calling God a liar at the same time by saying that Adam didn’t die that day. You said before that my interpretation implies that God lied because Adam didn’t die that day but you yourself said that Adam didn’t die. You said that something in Adam died, so that’s just as much of a contradiction according to your interpretation. My interpretation is supported by scripture and doesn’t contradict any of the scriptures including how long Adam lived.

 

[drich0150]

This is why we are saved by faith... and.. faith alone.

My kids knew very well that academia would attack Genesis. It's low hanging fruit.

However, to state that teaching the six literal days is a stumbling block and causing kids to reject Christianity.... What do you expect to do? Teach them theistic evolution.... to avoid a difficult truth but still teach the miracles of Christ's life... all because salvation depends on that portion of scripture?

Your argument is based on the old idea that it has to be creation or evolution. I do not think you comprehend that the interpretation being discussed here allows for literally both evolution and creation to be accepted with out changing a word of either.

So to answer your question I EXPECT schools to teach the science. at the same time I expect us to equip our children by every means available to preserve their beliefs. even if that means walking away from a traditional interpretation of a given passage and embracing another.

I've never trusted anyone that told me a half truth or "white lie" to get me to commit to something.

which 1/2 truth are you speaking?

If kids can accept the miracles of the New Testament... and yet are swayed by academics that try to disprove the creation account.... well they're lost anyway.

why would the children even get to the new testament if the very first story in the old is wrong/has been proven inaccurate? not only that Jesus himself references Adam/creation and if he believe in something wrong the question is asked how can he then be an all knowing god?

My guess is that if it is that easy to convince someone that it was not six days... then Christ's life... is total fiction after that.

Which is why I posted my interpretation of Genesis creation.. as it allows a literal 6 days, but at the same time allows all of evolution to work as well without changing a word of either the Bible or the theory of evolution

 

[drich0150]

The term “in the day” does not always mean on that specific day it can also mean in the time of.

I agree, but like the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon indicates it also means A literal Day. which is why it is translated "Day" in all but denominationally specific bibles. (they do that to fit a specific demonizations doctrines in those bibles)

Whether you know it or not whether you accept it or not the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon is the apart of reference materials used to translate and study even explain why a word like this is translated one way and not the other.

That is why I referenced it and provided you a link to this definitive explanation and definition.

So let's bottom line this. I have provided an exegesis to identify and support my quotation and use for the word "day" citing specifically the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon. which again is one of the leading authorities on Hebrew to English biblical translation solidifying my position and reading of this passage.

and you..
provided this:
[quote[
Search Results

Go to this site and type in “in the day” and it will show you every verse in the scriptures that uses this term. Then search the internet and type the verse book & number reference followed by the word “lexicon” and click on the link that says biblehub.com and it will show you the word by word lexicon and you can compare all the verses in the Old Testament that contain that phrase. The usage your looking for is be-yo-vm. Some examples are in the day of calamity, in the day of battle, in the day of my trouble, in the day of the Lord, in the day of evil, in the day of temptation, in the day of prosperity, in the day of rain, all of these use the same usage of yom (be-yo-vm). These are referring to times. In the day of calamity means in times of calamity. In the day of battles doesn’t refer to one particular day of battle but all days of battle or in times of battle. In the day of my trouble means in troubled times. Some usages of the word do refer to an actual day but not all of them, others refer to various times or events. So Genesis 2:17 can mean in the time Adam eats of the forbidden fruit he will die and that interpretation doesn’t result in having to conclude that all the days that Adam actually lived were not actually counted in the scriptures and it doesn’t require calling God a liar at the same time by saying that Adam didn’t die that day. You said before that my interpretation implies that God lied because Adam didn’t die that day but you yourself said that Adam didn’t die. You said that something in Adam died, so that’s just as much of a contradiction according to your interpretation. My interpretation is supported by scripture and doesn’t contradict any of the scriptures including how long Adam lived.[/QUOTE]

which amounts to a home work assignment, on how to maintain an open understanding of the word yom.

So again I gave you reference material that specifically states WHY the word YOM was translated in tot he word Day from Hebrew to English, and you are choosing to ignore it in favor of your open interpretation.

if you are not willing to accept well respected reference material that specifically states how and why this word was translated "day" verse time. then there is nothing more to discuss.

 

[JacksBratt]

Your argument is based on the old idea that it has to be creation or evolution. I do not think you comprehend that the interpretation being discussed here allows for literally both evolution and creation to be accepted with out changing a word of either.

So to answer your question I EXPECT schools to teach the science. at the same time I expect us to equip our children by every means available to preserve their beliefs. even if that means walking away from a traditional interpretation of a given passage and embracing another.
which 1/2 truth are you speaking?

why would the children even get to the new testament if the very first story in the old is wrong/has been proven inaccurate? not only that Jesus himself references Adam/creation and if he believe in something wrong the question is asked how can he then be an all knowing god?


Which is why I posted my interpretation of Genesis creation.. as it allows a literal 6 days, but at the same time allows all of evolution to work as well without changing a word of either the Bible or the theory of evolution

Well, drich0150, you and I see things differently. The Bible is quite clear that God accomplished this in six literal days and then rested.

Not that He needed to rest, however, He set the precedent for our work week and a day of rest.

It is a half truth to throw in any "evolving". Scientists can say what they will. I will hold God to be true and every man a liar.

If someone doesn't want to believe that God's word is the truth or they want to believe that God left out rather important details.. so be it.

Good day and God bless.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I agree, but like the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon indicates it also means A literal Day. which is why it is translated "Day" in all but denominationally specific bibles. (they do that to fit a specific demonizations doctrines in those bibles)

Whether you know it or not whether you accept it or not the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon is the apart of reference materials used to translate and study even explain why a word like this is translated one way and not the other.

That is why I referenced it and provided you a link to this definitive explanation and definition.

So let's bottom line this. I have provided an exegesis to identify and support my quotation and use for the word "day" citing specifically the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon. which again is one of the leading authorities on Hebrew to English biblical translation solidifying my position and reading of this passage.

and you..
provided this:
[quote[
Search Results

Go to this site and type in “in the day” and it will show you every verse in the scriptures that uses this term. Then search the internet and type the verse book & number reference followed by the word “lexicon” and click on the link that says biblehub.com and it will show you the word by word lexicon and you can compare all the verses in the Old Testament that contain that phrase. The usage your looking for is be-yo-vm. Some examples are in the day of calamity, in the day of battle, in the day of my trouble, in the day of the Lord, in the day of evil, in the day of temptation, in the day of prosperity, in the day of rain, all of these use the same usage of yom (be-yo-vm). These are referring to times. In the day of calamity means in times of calamity. In the day of battles doesn’t refer to one particular day of battle but all days of battle or in times of battle. In the day of my trouble means in troubled times. Some usages of the word do refer to an actual day but not all of them, others refer to various times or events. So Genesis 2:17 can mean in the time Adam eats of the forbidden fruit he will die and that interpretation doesn’t result in having to conclude that all the days that Adam actually lived were not actually counted in the scriptures and it doesn’t require calling God a liar at the same time by saying that Adam didn’t die that day. You said before that my interpretation implies that God lied because Adam didn’t die that day but you yourself said that Adam didn’t die. You said that something in Adam died, so that’s just as much of a contradiction according to your interpretation. My interpretation is supported by scripture and doesn’t contradict any of the scriptures including how long Adam lived.

which amounts to a home work assignment, on how to maintain an open understanding of the word yom.

So again I gave you reference material that specifically states WHY the word YOM was translated in tot he word Day from Hebrew to English, and you are choosing to ignore it in favor of your open interpretation.

if you are not willing to accept well respected reference material that specifically states how and why this word was translated "day" verse time. then there is nothing more to discuss.[/QUOTE]

I do apologize I didn’t have time to get the evidence together yesterday and I wanted to reply to you. I’m not refuting that the definition of the word is translated as day. It’s actually translated to “in the day” not just the word day itself. And I’m not just referring to yom in general but the specific usage of yom that is present in Genesis 2:17. That specific usage is be-yo-vm. That particular usage of the word yom, be-yo-vm, is translated as “in the day” every single time in the KJV and so far I haven’t seen it translated as anything other than “in the day” during my study of it. I’m at work right now but I will get the evidence together later this afternoon or perhaps tomorrow. Just depends on what the wife has planned for me to do after I get off work. I think it’s important that we agree that the translation and interpretation of this verse cannot contradict other scripture. They must all coincide together. I would also add that my translation and of this particular usage of the word yom does not conflict with the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon translation.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Well, drich0150, you and I see things differently. The Bible is quite clear that God accomplished this in six literal days and then rested.

Not that He needed to rest, however, He set the precedent for our work week and a day of rest.

It is a half truth to throw in any "evolving". Scientists can say what they will. I will hold God to be true and every man a liar.

If someone doesn't want to believe that God's word is the truth or they want to believe that God left out rather important details.. so be it.

Good day and God bless.

Amen, the creation account is just one of the numerous miracles in the Bible and if you have to resort to contradicting the biblical creation account for the sake of science then it’s not going to stop at just the creation account. Such a person will not be able to believe any of the miracles in the Bible. So trying to reconcile this one miracle of creation is an act of futility if the person can’t believe that miracles will always be contradictory to science. What it will amount to is not believing every miracle in the Bible and thus not actually believing the word of God. These miracles serve a purpose to show us God’s might and His glory. We diminish both of these aspects when we put God under the restraints of scientific law because the very purpose of His miracles are to prove that He is not limited to act in accordance with scientific law. That’s why He used miracles to bring people to repentance, so that when they witnessed these unnatural events they would know that this can only be performed by a supernatural being, God.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I agree, but like the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon indicates it also means A literal Day. which is why it is translated "Day" in all but denominationally specific bibles. (they do that to fit a specific demonizations doctrines in those bibles)

Whether you know it or not whether you accept it or not the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon is the apart of reference materials used to translate and study even explain why a word like this is translated one way and not the other.

That is why I referenced it and provided you a link to this definitive explanation and definition.

So let's bottom line this. I have provided an exegesis to identify and support my quotation and use for the word "day" citing specifically the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon. which again is one of the leading authorities on Hebrew to English biblical translation solidifying my position and reading of this passage.

and you..
provided this:
[quote[
Search Results

Go to this site and type in “in the day” and it will show you every verse in the scriptures that uses this term. Then search the internet and type the verse book & number reference followed by the word “lexicon” and click on the link that says biblehub.com and it will show you the word by word lexicon and you can compare all the verses in the Old Testament that contain that phrase. The usage your looking for is be-yo-vm. Some examples are in the day of calamity, in the day of battle, in the day of my trouble, in the day of the Lord, in the day of evil, in the day of temptation, in the day of prosperity, in the day of rain, all of these use the same usage of yom (be-yo-vm). These are referring to times. In the day of calamity means in times of calamity. In the day of battles doesn’t refer to one particular day of battle but all days of battle or in times of battle. In the day of my trouble means in troubled times. Some usages of the word do refer to an actual day but not all of them, others refer to various times or events. So Genesis 2:17 can mean in the time Adam eats of the forbidden fruit he will die and that interpretation doesn’t result in having to conclude that all the days that Adam actually lived were not actually counted in the scriptures and it doesn’t require calling God a liar at the same time by saying that Adam didn’t die that day. You said before that my interpretation implies that God lied because Adam didn’t die that day but you yourself said that Adam didn’t die. You said that something in Adam died, so that’s just as much of a contradiction according to your interpretation. My interpretation is supported by scripture and doesn’t contradict any of the scriptures including how long Adam lived.

which amounts to a home work assignment, on how to maintain an open understanding of the word yom.

So again I gave you reference material that specifically states WHY the word YOM was translated in tot he word Day from Hebrew to English, and you are choosing to ignore it in favor of your open interpretation.

if you are not willing to accept well respected reference material that specifically states how and why this word was translated "day" verse time. then there is nothing more to discuss.

Sorry I didn’t get a chance to get back to you yesterday but I’m going to show you how the specific translation of be-yo-vm used in Genesis 2:17 does not contradict the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon.

This screenshot is taken directly from the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon. Here is the Hebrew spelling that is used in Genesis 2:17. בְּיוֹם I copied & pasted it not sure why it pasted so small. Here’s a link to the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon.

Genesis 2 :: King James Version (KJV)

Now I will show you other examples of this same usage of yom from the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon that does not refer to a particular day.

Here’s Jeremiah 16:19

Here’s the verse

“O Lord, my strength and my stronghold, And my refuge in the day of distress, To You the nations will come From the ends of the earth and say, “Our fathers have inherited nothing but falsehood, Futility and things of no profit.””
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭16‬:‭19‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Heres the Hebrew spelling in this verse. בְּיוֹם Now compare them side by side.

בְּיוֹם בְּיוֹם

It’s the same exact spelling and the same exact usage. The term “in the day of calamity” or “in the day of distress” does not refer to a particular day it refers to in times or days of distress.

Here’s Psalms 50:15

Here’s the Hebrew spelling. בְּיוֹם

“Call upon Me in the day of trouble; I shall rescue you, and you will honor Me.””
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭50‬:‭15‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Ezekiel 22:24

““Son of man, say to her, ‘You are a land that is not cleansed or rained on in the day of indignation.’”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭22‬:‭24‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

The Hebrew spelling בְּיוֹם

“In the day of indignation” is not referring to a single day but many days. It can also be described as in the time of indignation.

Ezekiel 16:56

The Hebrew spelling בְּיוֹם

“As the name of your sister Sodom was not heard from your lips in your day of pride,”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭16‬:‭56‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“In the day of pride” is not referring to a single day it’s referring to a time of Jerusalem’s pride.

Now this is evidence from your own source that Genesis 2:17 is not referring to a single day, According to the specific spelling and usage of the word yom that is used in Genesis 2:17 God was not saying that Adam would die on the very day that he ate from the tree of knowledge.

So now that we have concluded that the Hebrew term “in the day” does not always mean something that will happen on a particular day but can also refer to an unspecific time and since we know from the scriptures that Adam in fact did not die on the day that he ate from the tree of knowledge and that he did in fact live 930 years then we must conclude that Genesis 2:17 was not saying that Adam would die on the very same day that he ate from the tree of knowledge. To say otherwise would be ignoring your own source and the facts presented in the scriptures.

 

[sfs]

Well there is this:

There are roughly three camps in America: (1) those who still cling to orthodox Darwinism on the grounds that no one has come up with a better explanation for the origin of species; (2) those (like Gould and Eldredge) who have concocted baroque refinements of the original theory, such as “punctuated equilibria,” in order to shelter it from empirical falsification; and (3) those, including a well-known group of “cladists,” who reject the theory altogether.

 

[sfs]

Well there is this:

There are roughly three camps in America: (1) those who still cling to orthodox Darwinism on the grounds that no one has come up with a better explanation for the origin of species; (2) those (like Gould and Eldredge) who have concocted baroque refinements of the original theory, such as “punctuated equilibria,” in order to shelter it from empirical falsification; and (3) those, including a well-known group of “cladists,” who reject the theory altogether.

Either the author means by 'orthodox Darwinism' the theory of evolution exactly as proposed by Darwin, in which case he's wrong because no one has believed that theory in the last hundred years -- evolutionary biologist have learned a lot since Darwin. Or else the author simply has no idea what he's talking about. Cladists don't reject anything about evolutionary biology. Their entire approach -- replacing traditional taxonomy with inferred evolutionary relationships -- is predicated on common descent being true.

 

[drich0150]

Well, drich0150, you and I see things differently. The Bible is quite clear that God accomplished this in six literal days and then rested.

you still do not know what's going on here yet you argue as if I am not saying the same thing!!!

I am saying GOD CREATED EVERYTHING IN 6 LITERAL DAYS AND RESTED!!! Go back watch the video in the OP if the OP is too hard to follow.

Because in addition to the literal 7 day creation period I have also found a way to make all of evolution work with the literal 7 day creation without changing a written word in genesis!

Not that He needed to rest, however, He set the precedent for our work week and a day of rest.

It is a half truth to throw in any "evolving". Scientists can say what they will. I will hold God to be true and every man a liar.
Again, if a literal 7 days creation is possible with all of evolution how is this a 1/2 truth? Wouldn't a 1/2 truth be that one can only choose creation or evolution if God did both?

If someone doesn't want to believe that God's word is the truth or they want to believe that God left out rather important details.. so be it.

Good day and God bless.

what if God left nothing out, what if we just assume a Bronze Age interpretation of the creation narrative is the only way things could happen when in fact the narrative supports a much more comprehensive understanding without adding a word or taking anything away from the word. meaning only how we understand what is written need change.

 

[drich0150]

I would also add that my translation and of this particular usage of the word yom does not conflict with the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon translation.

Actually if you look at the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon it gives a specific book chapter and verse usage out of the word "yom" for genesis 2:17 being translated DAY in reference to the time frame given. IE the time allotment was in that day. in reference to what we understand as a 24 hour period.

 

[drich0150]

Amen, the creation account is just one of the numerous miracles in the Bible and if you have to resort to contradicting the biblical creation account for the sake of science then it’s not going to stop at just the creation account. Such a person will not be able to believe any of the miracles in the Bible. So trying to reconcile this one miracle of creation is an act of futility if the person can’t believe that miracles will always be contradictory to science. What it will amount to is not believing every miracle in the Bible and thus not actually believing the word of God. These miracles serve a purpose to show us God’s might and His glory. We diminish both of these aspects when we put God under the restraints of scientific law because the very purpose of His miracles are to prove that He is not limited to act in accordance with scientific law. That’s why He used miracles to bring people to repentance, so that when they witnessed these unnatural events they would know that this can only be performed by a supernatural being, God.

again the understanding that the Bible is a book full of miracles maybe enough for you, but it is not enough for 80% of the children we are loosing to science and a 'college education.'

where is the church going to be in 20 years if this does not change?

 

[drich0150]

Sorry I didn’t get a chance to get back to you yesterday but I’m going to show you how the specific translation of be-yo-vm used in Genesis 2:17 does not contradict the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon.

View attachment 322738

This screenshot is taken directly from the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon. Here is the Hebrew spelling that is used in Genesis 2:17. בְּיוֹם I copied & pasted it not sure why it pasted so small. Here’s a link to the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon.

Genesis 2 :: King James Version (KJV)

Now I will show you other examples of this same usage of yom from the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon that does not refer to a particular day.

Here’s Jeremiah 16:19

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Here’s the verse

“O Lord, my strength and my stronghold, And my refuge in the day of distress, To You the nations will come From the ends of the earth and say, “Our fathers have inherited nothing but falsehood, Futility and things of no profit.””
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭16‬:‭19‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Heres the Hebrew spelling in this verse. בְּיוֹם Now compare them side by side.

בְּיוֹם בְּיוֹם

It’s the same exact spelling and the same exact usage. The term “in the day of calamity” or “in the day of distress” does not refer to a particular day it refers to in times or days of distress.

Here’s Psalms 50:15

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Here’s the Hebrew spelling. בְּיוֹם

“Call upon Me in the day of trouble; I shall rescue you, and you will honor Me.””
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭50‬:‭15‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Ezekiel 22:24

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““Son of man, say to her, ‘You are a land that is not cleansed or rained on in the day of indignation.’”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭22‬:‭24‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

The Hebrew spelling בְּיוֹם

“In the day of indignation” is not referring to a single day but many days. It can also be described as in the time of indignation.

Ezekiel 16:56

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The Hebrew spelling בְּיוֹם

“As the name of your sister Sodom was not heard from your lips in your day of pride,”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭16‬:‭56‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“In the day of pride” is not referring to a single day it’s referring to a time of Jerusalem’s pride.

Now this is evidence from your own source that Genesis 2:17 is not referring to a single day, According to the specific spelling and usage of the word yom that is used in Genesis 2:17 God was not saying that Adam would die on the very day that he ate from the tree of knowledge.

So now that we have concluded that the Hebrew term “in the day” does not always mean something that will happen on a particular day but can also refer to an unspecific time and since we know from the scriptures that Adam in fact did not die on the day that he ate from the tree of knowledge and that he did in fact live 930 years then we must conclude that Genesis 2:17 was not saying that Adam would die on the very same day that he ate from the tree of knowledge. To say otherwise would be ignoring your own source and the facts presented in the scriptures.

you have screen shot everything except what I've been trying to get you to read. I am left to conclude you either you have no experience using this lexicon, or you are intentionally avoiding the pectinate information that is proving you wrong.

I will try and use my phone to provide similar screen shots.

 

[drich0150]

you have screen shot everything except what I've been trying to get you to read. I am left to conclude you either you have no experience using this lexicon, or you are intentionally avoiding the pectinate information that is proving you wrong.

I will try and use my phone to provide similar screen shots.

what you don't seem to get is the lexicon tells you how and why the word was translated "Day" meaning specific day/24 hour period. the same 24 hour period implied in the 7 days of creation. Meaning you can not have it both ways. If the usage of yom means a literal 24 hour day when God created the earth, then it means a literal 24 hour day when Adam and Eve would die after touching the forbidden fruit

 

[BNR32FAN]

again the understanding that the Bible is a book full of miracles maybe enough for you, but it is not enough for 80% of the children we are loosing to science and a 'college education.'

where is the church going to be in 20 years if this does not change?

The church will be exactly where God expects it to be. We already knew that few will find the narrow gate, resorting to promoting fallacies isn’t going to change that. Where do we draw the line brother? Do we start trying to reduce Christ’s resurrection to a trivial natural occurrence, maybe even implying that He didn’t actually die, He only appeared to be dead? I’m not accusing you of potentially doing this just pointing out that we don’t help anyone by diminishing the divine nature of God’s miracles.

 

[BNR32FAN]

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what you don't seem to get is the lexicon tells you how and why the word was translated "Day" meaning specific day/24 hour period. the same 24 hour period implied in the 7 days of creation. Meaning you can not have it both ways. If the usage of yom means a literal 24 hour day when God created the earth, then it means a literal 24 hour day when Adam and Eve would die after touching the forbidden fruit

So the day of Jerusalem’s pride was a 24 hour period? Ezekiel 16:56 uses the same exact spelling and usage of the word be-yo-vm.

Ezekiel 22:24 is referring to a 24 hour day that Israel was in indignation? God specifically stated in Ezekiel 20 that Israel’s indignation began in Egypt, continued in the wilderness, and then was continued by the children of those who rebelled against Him in the wilderness. It is NOT referring to a 24 hour period of Israel’s indignation. Ezekiel 16:56 uses the exact same spelling and usage of the word used in Genesis 2:17. Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon does NOT mention a 24 hour period in the definition of be-yo-vm, that’s your addition to the definition.

“and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “On the day when I chose Israel and swore to the descendants of the house of Jacob and made Myself known to them in the land of Egypt, when I swore to them, saying, I am the Lord your God, on that day I swore to them, to bring them out from the land of Egypt into a land that I had selected for them, flowing with milk and honey, which is the glory of all lands. I said to them, ‘Cast away, each of you, the detestable things of his eyes, and do not defile yourselves with the idols of Egypt; I am the Lord your God.’ But they rebelled against Me and were not willing to listen to Me; they did not cast away the detestable things of their eyes, nor did they forsake the idols of Egypt. Then I resolved to pour out My wrath on them, to accomplish My anger against them in the midst of the land of Egypt. But I acted for the sake of My name, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the nations among whom they lived, in whose sight I made Myself known to them by bringing them out of the land of Egypt. So I took them out of the land of Egypt and brought them into the wilderness. I gave them My statutes and informed them of My ordinances, by which, if a man observes them, he will live. Also I gave them My sabbaths to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them. But the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness. They did not walk in My statutes and they rejected My ordinances, by which, if a man observes them, he will live; and My sabbaths they greatly profaned. Then I resolved to pour out My wrath on them in the wilderness, to annihilate them. But I acted for the sake of My name, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the nations, before whose sight I had brought them out. Also I swore to them in the wilderness that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, flowing with milk and honey, which is the glory of all lands, because they rejected My ordinances, and as for My statutes, they did not walk in them; they even profaned My sabbaths, for their heart continually went after their idols. Yet My eye spared them rather than destroying them, and I did not cause their annihilation in the wilderness. I said to their children in the wilderness, ‘Do not walk in the statutes of your fathers or keep their ordinances or defile yourselves with their idols. I am the Lord your God; walk in My statutes and keep My ordinances and observe them. Sanctify My sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the Lord your God. But the children rebelled against Me; they did not walk in My statutes, nor were they careful to observe My ordinances, by which, if a man observes them, he will live; they profaned My sabbaths. So I resolved to pour out My wrath on them, to accomplish My anger against them in the wilderness.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭20‬:‭5‬-‭21‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

I have shown you several references that the very same spelling and usage of the word be-yo-vm does NOT always refer to a 24 hour period from your own source and you still refuse to accept it. You simply refuse to admit the truth.