Hospital To Kill 10-Month-Old Baby Rather Than Let His Parents Send Him To The US For Treatment

[TLK Valentine]

This is so sad. If the government wouldn't have shut the family down in the name of saving money the baby may have been saved. This whole thing was evil and because of that an opportunity to possibly help this baby was lost.

It's happened before... even here.

Texas Advance Directives Act - Wikipedia

 

[Dave RP]

This is so sad. If the government wouldn't have shut the family down in the name of saving money the baby may have been saved. This whole thing was evil and because of that an opportunity to possibly help this baby was lost.

If you're going to rant at least do so with some correct facts. The government does not ever get involved in clinical decisions and this child was treated in one of the best children's hospitals in the world. Treatment was stopped because it was pointless, not because of money.

 

[trunks2k]

If you are interested in what the hospital has to say, here is its explanation of what happened (pdf) http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/file/23731/download?token=TWJkSxZu

There are a couple of very important points:
- There was evidence that Charlie could possibly feel pain.
- Doctors and specialists from all over agreed that when looking at the clinical data, it was clear Charlie's brain damage was severe and beyond any possibility of repair.
- The treatment in question has never been used with Charlie's particular disease.
- The doctor that wanted to try the treatment had never looked at Charlie's files, including the brains scans and the opinions of other doctors. He didn't come clean about that until JULY.
- The doctor that wanted to try the treatment has financial interest in the treatment.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Well, I leave this experience with having learned much about European health care -it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. European people seem to have taken a communal approach in deciding for the parents of Charlie Gard... That's the lesson I have learned here.

...Now, more than ever, do I reject that model that some attempt to impose on other nations that are not their own.

The truth is out.

 

[JCFantasy23]

Well, I leave this experience with having learned much about European health care -it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. European people seem to have taken a communal approach in deciding for the parents of Charlie Gard... That's the lesson I have learned here.

...Now, more than ever, do I reject that model that some attempt to impose on other nations that are not their own.

The truth is out.

I think the same thing would have happened here. Same outcome for the baby. I'm not sure why people are blaming the hospital with all the new facts that have come to light. This wasn't over financial greed.

 

[Goonie]

Well, I leave this experience with having learned much about European health care -it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. European people seem to have taken a communal approach in deciding for the parents of Charlie Gard... That's the lesson I have learned here.

...Now, more than ever, do I reject that model that some attempt to impose on other nations that are not their own.

The truth is out.

Yes that the parents were being given false hope by a doctor looking to make a profit.

- The doctor that wanted to try the treatment had never looked at Charlie's files, including the brains scans and the opinions of other doctors. He didn't come clean about that until JULY.
- The doctor that wanted to try the treatment has financial interest in the treatment.

As trunks2k has pointed out the doctor was making promises without even looking at the brain scans, or opinions of the doctors involved.

 

[trunks2k]

This wasn't over financial greed.

Well, it arguably was, but not on the hospital's part. Rather, on the part of the doctor that had financial interest in the "treatment".

 

[Landon Caeli]

I think the same thing would have happened here. Same outcome for the baby. I'm not sure why people are blaming the hospital with all the new facts that have come to light. This wasn't over financial greed.

Probably. But what gets me is the communal outcry -everyone fighting to pull the plug, as if it's their business. But that's what socialized medicine does -it makes it everyone's business.

...The same case will be made for overweight people, I'm sure. Maybe it already has. How could it not lead to that?

 

[Landon Caeli]

The only thing out is your ignorance and prejudice. Failing to mention that in the wealthiest country in the world you fail to provide health care to many of your citizens whilst spreading your bike to those countries that do.

And you're a "Christian"

Good luck to you in heaven.

Good luck policing the world, Dave. In the meantime, there are starving kids and sick people around the world you're ignoring who have ZERO hope... Injustices and corruption beyond anyones wildest dreams. But you want to concern yourself with healthcare in the wealthiest country on earth, where doctors are lawfully forced to treat those with medical emergencies regardless of coverage?

...That makes no sense.

...Are your priorities based on a regional bias? 1st world Westerners first?

 

[Landon Caeli]

Bile I meant

Yeah. We spread our bile...

Was that supposed to mean something?

 

[PreviouslySeeking...]

Probably. But what gets me is the communal outcry -everyone fighting to pull the plug, as if it's their business. But that's what socialized medicine does -it makes it everyone's business.

...The same case will be made for overweight people, I'm sure. Maybe it already has. How could it not lead to that?

This still had nothing to do with socialized medicine. This was a fight between medical ethics and parents' rights. That is what galvanized the public. People are used to viewing children as possessions belonging to their parents.

A hue and cry goes up every single time someone or something fights for the child's rights as a separate entity.

 

[rjs330]

I think the same thing would have happened here. Same outcome for the baby. I'm not sure why people are blaming the hospital with all the new facts that have come to light. This wasn't over financial greed.

It had nothing to do with greed. It had to do with the the government healthcare system deciding not to spend the money. I find it interesting that people railed against private insurance companies not wanting to spend money on people who they deemed couldn't be saved. Yet these same people defend to the bitter end the government doing the same thing. The parents themselves said if this had not dragged on so long Charlie might have been helped.

 

[rjs330]

It's happened before... even here.

Texas Advance Directives Act - Wikipedia

I disagree with it wherever it occurred.

 

[rjs330]

How, exactly? Even the Dr pushing the unproven treatment reversed course when he got to look at the medical evidence.

After how long? He may have but it was far too late now. This fight has been going on and had something been done sooner it may have helped. But thanks to government healthcare it drug on until it was too late.

 

[JCFantasy23]

It had nothing to do with greed. It had to do with the the government healthcare system deciding not to spend the money. I find it interesting that people railed against private insurance companies not wanting to spend money on people who they deemed couldn't be saved.

That isn't the case. They treated the baby with everything they've had at their disposal there. He has been at the hospital awhile with their machines, doctors and treatments. You make it sound like the baby was kicked out on the streets without any medical care. This was about what they viewed as cruelty and controversial to do with a child. They weren't "saving money" and withholding treatment.

As others have stated, the legal debate was about the parent's choice of their child over the governments.

 

[rjs330]

If you're going to rant at least do so with some correct facts. The government does not ever get involved in clinical decisions and this child was treated in one of the best children's hospitals in the world. Treatment was stopped because it was pointless, not because of money.

Get your facts straight. The healthcare system in the UK is not privately run. It's not private money and not a private organization. The courts are not private either. They are part of the government. Just like the EPA here or whatever government entity that gets established.

 

[Subduction Zone]

After how long? He may have but it was far too late now. This fight has been going on and had something been done sooner it may have helped. But thanks to government healthcare it drug on until it was too late.

It was always "too late". There is no cure for this disease. Worse yet you were misled by a doctor that might have been criminal in his actions. Have you read this article:

Charlie Gard's parents end legal battle as time runs out for critically ill baby

Hirano made his claims without even looking at the child's brain scans. Worse yet he had a financial interest in the "treatment":

'But it added that they had learned with “surprise and disappointment” last week that he had neither looked at the child’s brain scans nor read the medical notes, other expert opinions or the judgement of the court. It added that Hirano “retains a financial interest in some of the NBT compounds he proposed prescribing for Charlie”.'

 

[LinguaIgnota]

At this point you're just going around in circles. Everything has been thoroughly explained by a number of different posters in a number of different ways. The counterfactual, repetitious claims about evil socialist medicine and evil socialist governments can only be accounted for in two possible ways: Either the posters are unable to internalize the information, or they're unwilling to. I don't know whether it's a matter of intellectual deficiency or dishonesty, but I doubt that we'll get any further with this discussion.

 

[Landon Caeli]

At this point you're just going around in circles. Everything has been thoroughly explained by a number of different posters in a number of different ways. The counterfactual, repetitious claims about evil socialist medicine and evil socialist governments can only be accounted for in two possible ways: Either the posters are unable to internalize the information, or they're unwilling to. I don't know whether it's a matter of intellectual deficiency or dishonesty, but I doubt that we'll get any further with this discussion.

I think it's funny how some Europeans worship their government's health department as if it's a holy institution established by God almighty himself.... Like crusaders, they want to force it onto the world.

...I guess that's what happens when you replace the worship of God with worship of government. Gotta worship something I guess.

 

[Goonie]

I think it's funny how some Europeans worship their government's health department as if it's a holy institution established by God almighty himself.... Like crusaders, they want to force it onto the world.

...I guess that's what happens when you replace the worship of God with worship of government. Gotta worship something I guess.

Sorry, but the sum total of Europeans worshiping 'health departments' is zero. Now the number of Americans who worship their guns on the other hand...

Seriously, you are making scarecrows.