Homosexuality

[Loudmouth]

HIV is rampant in Africa, mainly among the black population. It is also a fact that many are bi sexual so that is understandable. So what is the point?

My point is that trying to link HIV to homosexuality isn't based on anything concrete, and is only meant to dehumanize homosexuals.

Female homosexual normally have fewer sexual partners than male. Also most don't participate in some of the sexual practices that is prevalent in the male homosexual community.

Sex between females has a lower chance of HIV transmission than heterosexual sex. I doubt that you would argue that God prefers lesbians to heterosexual couples. So why argue that God hates homosexual men because of the higher chance of HIV transmission? Seems inconsistent to me.

Bottom line it isn't acceptable behavior in the Christian community, you are on a Christian forum and you should try to respect our right to believe as we do. If you think you are going to rewrite Christian ethics your wrong.

The problem is that some in the christian community doe not respect the rights of non-christians, which is why I am here.

 

[tremble]

Hi loudmouth. What a daring name considering the topic!

I believe God loves homosexuals the same as he loves heterosexual adulterers or people who participate in any number of sinful activities.

I cant see that God disapproves of the feelings that homosexuals have for each other. Love is love. The only positive solution I know of to reconcile the homosexual person ( not the action of homosexuality) is for homosexuals to either train themselves to be interested in the opposite sex (which probably isnt particulalrly appealing to them) or to remain celibate.

I realize that both options are rather glib but there are many situations like that in life for all of us where we just have to accept that doing the right thing will be expensive, inconvenient or downright painful.

This is my Christian point of view where I'm assuming that homosexual activity (not the people or their feelings, but the sex) is wrong.

I think you are coming from the perspective that gay sex is not wrong. We are unlikely to change each others mind about that but maybe that's OK for now because showing love should not be based on a contract that we will only do so if we agree with one another first.

So, what are your suggestions on how Christians can show love for homosexuals without compromising their stance on homosexuality?

 

[RBPerry]

Tremble, this is a Christian forum for orthodox Christians. I believe he has made his beliefs perfectly clear, they are not consistent with mainstream Christianity.

 

[Inkfingers]

What makes people homosexual

Nothing does. Homosexual and heterosexual are meaningless distinctions invented in the 1800s.

The situation is FAR simpler than that....but also far more damning.

 

[Belk]

Tremble, this is a Christian forum for orthodox Christians. I believe he has made his beliefs perfectly clear, they are not consistent with mainstream Christianity.

No it's not. That would be why they let us Atheists in.

 

[RBPerry]

House Rules:

All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules found here (Community Rules). In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against it's theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic.

You obviously didn't read the rules.

 

[tremble]

You obviously didn't read the rules.

Hi RB,

Perhaps loudmouth was debating his views previously. Personnaly I don't think he was abusing the rules or being disruptive. Actually, I think the reason administrators allow atheists to come here to debate is because they see the wisdom in Christians interacting with the world rather than shutting ourselves away in secret.

If we don't have the answers to their arguments then the solution isn't to throw the rule book at them. We need better answers. That's why I was asking loudmouth to share his suggestions on what he thinks Christians can do to love gays without compromising their stance against homosexuality.

Do you think that was wrong of me to ask? Do you think it would be wrong for him to answer? If so, why?

 

[RBPerry]

Do you think that was wrong of me to ask? Do you think it would be wrong for him to answer?

No I don't think it was wrong of you. I think almost any subject should be open for discussion. Once it turns to pushing someones own unorthodox position is when I believe it crosses the line on the non denomination forum, but that is just my opinion.

We need to love all people and that includes atheist, agnostics, and homosexuals. I know that God loves them, and none of us has any right to hate. We can admittedly disagree. Sometimes issues we are passionate about can become heated, but that is just the nature of the beast. What many non believers do not understand is that we Christians are just imperfect people like all others.

 

[retlaw]

The problem is that some in the christian community doe not respect the rights of non-christians, which is why I am here.

I think you are confusing politics with Christianity. I live in American and at least for the moment I still have the right to believe what I want and my neighbor has the right to believe what he wants. As a Christian however I do not have that right. Being Christian means you yield to the Authority of God/Jesus as laid down in his word (Bible). If you can't yield you can't be a Christian. So following that logic if you want to be a participant in a Christian church you do not have the ability to make the rules. Trust me if I could make the rules they would be different.

My guess is that you will argue that Christians have enforced their moral standard via the government in the past. I will grant that argument to be true. Prostitution for instance is illegal in most places in America primarily because Christians want it to be.

If you find this upsetting you should be very happy because it's clear that all that will be going away soon. With the legalization of weed out west and homosexual marriage being legalized most everywhere it's clear America is turning away from laws that address moral questions from a Christian standard. While this will make you happy as Christians we believe the bible is clear on what happens when a nation rejects Gods moral codes in favor of the human thirst for sin.

 

[tremble]

No I don't think it was wrong of you. I think almost any subject should be open for discussion. Once it turns to pushing someones own unorthodox position is when I believe it crosses the line on the non denomination forum, but that is just my opinion.

We need to love all people and that includes atheist, agnostics, and homosexuals. I know that God loves them, and none of us has any right to hate. We can admittedly disagree. Sometimes issues we are passionate about can become heated, but that is just the nature of the beast. What many non believers do not understand is that we Christians are just imperfect people like all others.

Thanks for clarifying, RB. All of what you've said here sounds good. However, it seems loudmouth has either lost interest in the topic or has been warned by admins not to continue posting on this thread. Oh well...

 

[Alithis]

Sexual Orientation is hardwired at birth. The gay brain is physically wired differently. Science supports this. Nobody chooses who they're attracted to. You either are or you aren't.

False information .engineered by those who
Dispute that God exists.

 

[Alithis]

Hi loudmouth. What a daring name considering the topic!

I believe God loves homosexuals the same as he loves heterosexual adulterers or people who participate in any number of sinful activities.

I cant see that God disapproves of the feelings that homosexuals have for each other. Love is love. The only positive solution I know of to reconcile the homosexual person ( not the action of homosexuality) is for homosexuals to either train themselves to be interested in the opposite sex (which probably isnt particulalrly appealing to them) or to remain celibate.

I realize that both options are rather glib but there are many situations like that in life for all of us where we just have to accept that doing the right thing will be expensive, inconvenient or downright painful.

This is my Christian point of view where I'm assuming that homosexual activity (not the people or their feelings, but the sex) is wrong.

I think you are coming from the perspective that gay sex is not wrong. We are unlikely to change each others mind about that but maybe that's OK for now because showing love should not be based on a contract that we will only do so if we agree with one another first.

So, what are your suggestions on how Christians can show love for homosexuals without compromising their stance on homosexuality?

Not so tremble.. all sinful outward action is born forth from the sinful heart.
The so called feelings are living by carnality .
walking after the flesh.
Love is not desiring a sinful cohabitation of same sex.that is rebellion against God ..Who IS love.

Don't be fooled.many modern arguments are a ruse.
They dissect the issue into many parts and trick people into being accepting of an aspect to take the attention off the whole truth.
God has said it is an abhorrent sin.
And anyone who desires life eternal and is aware of their sin has hope if they believe in the lord Jesus .put their faith in him and follow him.
He will,like he does with us all.lead them out of sin and work in us all a transformation.
Those who claim faith in Christ but display no change.rather they promote continuance of this or any sin .lie,and the truth is not in them.

 

[Alithis]

Sorry, but we are going to need more than your say so.

The cycle of procreation is both violated and ended by sodomy.
Whatever form any species procreate is the normal sexual orientation of that species.when deviated from its is abnormal.
This only agrees with God Who has stated ..it is
Both sin and an abhorrent act.
---------/---------------
-please be reminded of CF rules -
The promotion (by arguing or debating in favor of it)of homosexuality is not allowed
------------/--------------.

 

[RBPerry]

False information .engineered by those who
Dispute that God exists.

That isn't true, you need to study the research that has been done on the subject. Also remember there is generational sin. I just read a study regarding the DNA of people that have been homosexuals all their lives. This is not the forum though for that discussion.

 

[BelCantoBaptist]

That isn't true, you need to study the research that has been done on the subject. Also remember there is generational sin. I just read a study regarding the DNA of people that have been homosexuals all their lives. This is not the forum though for that discussion.

Just a simple outline for you:

• First off, even if homosexuality is genetic, does this then make it acceptable to engage in homosexual acts? No. Anger or perhaps the predisposition toward anger might be genetic, for example, but it doesn't make it right to murder someone.
• Some people have argued that there is a significant difference in the size of a particular region of a homosexual's brain relative to a heterosexual's brain. Even if this is true, how do we know that this is the cause of homosexuality rather than its result?
• Even if homosexuality is genetic, why should homosexuality be considered permissible on these grounds? Or even considered "normal"? There are many diseases such as certain forms of cancer which are genetic. But these diseases are not therefore "normal." In fact, that's why they are "diseases," because they are not normal; they are not markers of health.
• Even if homosexuality is genetic, it's not as if everyone with a gay gene is necessarily controlled by it. Even if there is a gay gene, it doesn't then follow that one is therefore compelled into homosexuality.
• At best, the existence of a gay gene might mitigate sin in some sense, but it would never excuse let alone condone sin.
• Now, if homosexuality is genetic, and if this in some way excuses homosexuality, then wouldn't the "inheritance" of our sinful nature from Adam excuse all sin -- which would be patently false?
• We've been talking about genetic factors (nature), but let's not forget about environmental factors (nurture). If we were raised in a home with physically and emotionally abusive parents, would this excuse our being physically and emotionally abusive towards our own children? No.

Male-on-male and female-on-female sex is blatantly against how we were physically created. It overturns our sexuality. As John MacArthur once asked, with a touch of humor, "Do I need to draw you a picture of how a man and a man or a woman and a woman cannot possibly physically 'fit' together?"



Homosexuality cuts against God's purpose for humanity as "male and female," as part of a family, as part of society. Men and women were created with distinctive roles. This is not a sexist statement; this is how God created us. This recognizes who we are as males and females, as husbands and wives, etc. And the family is the most fundamental building block of society. Note, for instance, that Eve was given her name because she was "the mother of all living" (Gen. 3:20). Her name is tied to her role as mother. Homosexuality does away with our God-given roles as men and women and as families.



There's also the related danger of homosexual couples adopting children. Imagine the possible affect on little Johnny or Jane growing up with two dads but no mom or two moms but no dad, to say nothing of the affect on others. I'm not saying it's a foregone conclusion but from what I've read and seen there does seem to be a high degree of deleterious effects in exposing and raising children within the context of a homosexual lifestyle.



According to the Bible, there's a sense in which homosexuality demonstrates the height of sinful, rebellious man (à la Romans 1).

 

[RBPerry]

Male-on-male and female-on-female sex is blatantly against how we were physically created. It overturns our sexuality. As John MacArthur once asked, with a touch of humor, "Do I need to draw you a picture of how a man and a man or a woman and a woman cannot possibly physically 'fit' together?"

You are correct. Also just because someone has a weakness in any area of their lives does not excuse the sin. 1 Cor 10:13 covers that very well. All I'm saying is there are both psychological and potentially physical abnormalities that could cause a person to have homosexual tenancies. This in no way gives cause for them to submit to those desires.

The real sad part today is the psychiatric community are telling homosexuals their desires are normal, and that I totally disagree with. I personally believe that most of those tenancies show up in the adolescent years due to gender identity confusion caused by social or dysfunctional family issues.

I believe as Christians we need to be sensitive and compassionate without justifying the sin. There are many testimonies of ex homosexuals that turned to Christ because of loving Christians.

 

[Sparrow93]

I think it is more complicated than that. I think sometimes they are born with genetic makeups that alters some. I have also been around others who are making a choice ? a lot of them it's what they continuously set their mind on.

 

[Belk]

Just a simple outline for you:

• First off, even if homosexuality is genetic, does this then make it acceptable to engage in homosexual acts? No. Anger or perhaps the predisposition toward anger might be genetic, for example, but it doesn't make it right to murder someone.
• Some people have argued that there is a significant difference in the size of a particular region of a homosexual's brain relative to a heterosexual's brain. Even if this is true, how do we know that this is the cause of homosexuality rather than its result?
• Even if homosexuality is genetic, why should homosexuality be considered permissible on these grounds? Or even considered "normal"? There are many diseases such as certain forms of cancer which are genetic. But these diseases are not therefore "normal." In fact, that's why they are "diseases," because they are not normal; they are not markers of health.
• Even if homosexuality is genetic, it's not as if everyone with a gay gene is necessarily controlled by it. Even if there is a gay gene, it doesn't then follow that one is therefore compelled into homosexuality.
• At best, the existence of a gay gene might mitigate sin in some sense, but it would never excuse let alone condone sin.
• Now, if homosexuality is genetic, and if this in some way excuses homosexuality, then wouldn't the "inheritance" of our sinful nature from Adam excuse all sin -- which would be patently false?
• We've been talking about genetic factors (nature), but let's not forget about environmental factors (nurture). If we were raised in a home with physically and emotionally abusive parents, would this excuse our being physically and emotionally abusive towards our own children? No.

Male-on-male and female-on-female sex is blatantly against how we were physically created. It overturns our sexuality. As John MacArthur once asked, with a touch of humor, "Do I need to draw you a picture of how a man and a man or a woman and a woman cannot possibly physically 'fit' together?"



Homosexuality cuts against God's purpose for humanity as "male and female," as part of a family, as part of society. Men and women were created with distinctive roles. This is not a sexist statement; this is how God created us. This recognizes who we are as males and females, as husbands and wives, etc. And the family is the most fundamental building block of society. Note, for instance, that Eve was given her name because she was "the mother of all living" (Gen. 3:20). Her name is tied to her role as mother. Homosexuality does away with our God-given roles as men and women and as families.



There's also the related danger of homosexual couples adopting children. Imagine the possible affect on little Johnny or Jane growing up with two dads but no mom or two moms but no dad, to say nothing of the affect on others. I'm not saying it's a foregone conclusion but from what I've read and seen there does seem to be a high degree of deleterious effects in exposing and raising children within the context of a homosexual lifestyle.



According to the Bible, there's a sense in which homosexuality demonstrates the height of sinful, rebellious man (à la Romans 1).

Genetic, not genetic, don't care. Until you come up with some secular arguments that hold up in court your religious interpretations are meaningless in a secular society and I thank my lucky stars for that. If you feel homosexuality is a sin feel free not to be a homosexual. The data to date shows no inherent negatives from homosexuality.

 

[Alithis]

That isn't true, you need to study the research that has been done on the subject. Also remember there is generational sin. I just read a study regarding the DNA of people that have been homosexuals all their lives. This is not the forum though for that discussion.

Research is biased and presented like statistics.bent to say what they want it to say.
Research does not make Truth.

 

[Alithis]

See,I said below earlier.. and now people are trying to do it.
Trying to dissect the issue into many parts.its jus a rebellious ruse in an attempt to excuse unrepentant sin.

Not so tremble.. all sinful outward action is born forth from the sinful heart.
The so called feelings are living by carnality .
walking after the flesh.
Love is not desiring a sinful cohabitation of same sex.that is rebellion against God ..Who IS love.

Don't be fooled.many modern arguments are a ruse.
They dissect the issue into many parts and trick people into being accepting of an aspect to take the attention off the whole truth.
God has said it is an abhorrent sin.
And anyone who desires life eternal and is aware of their sin has hope if they believe in the lord Jesus .put their faith in him and follow him.
He will,like he does with us all.lead them out of sin and work in us all a transformation.
Those who claim faith in Christ but display no change.rather they promote continuance of this or any sin .lie,and the truth is not in them.