Homosexuality

[Jase]

Homosexual people can be Christians. They are just called to a life of celibacy. You may ask: why? Because it is a sin to practice homosexual erotic acts (Romans 1:26-27). So if you want to be a Christian, you must not sin, and since it is a sin, you must not do it. So if you are a Christian, you can't have homosexual erotic acts.

It may come as surprise to you, seeing how young you are, but nothing in the Bible says the practice of homosexual erotic acts is a sin. Many people who are not well educated on this issue continue to claim it is, but they would be emphatically wrong. The word homosexual doesn't even exist in the original.

 

[Jase]

How can you say that?? Don't you know that homosexuality is forbidden in Christianity?? Gays can be Christians, but they cann't enter Heaven.​

Wrong​

You know Sodom and Gomorrah God burned it down because of homosexuality.

Wrong, this is a myth. Sodom was not destroyed for homosexuality.
​

Ez 16:49 Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.


Can someone explain to me at what point, lying and presenting false information became acceptable in order to condemn others?​

 

[Jase]

As much as it pains me to say it, this is probably my interpretation of the Biblical view too. It makes me sad though, because it would be a very difficult burden to carry for an entire lifetime. We all have orientations that lead to sin. Some are prone to rage, addictions, lust, idolatry, pride, etc... but this one seems to be especially tough. Even if they are failing in their struggle (or don't even see it as sin yet), I still think they can be Christians. Otherwise we should all worry.

Paul's words show that celibacy doesn't always work. He said, some are given the gift of celibacy. Most are not, and if they cannot control their lust through that gift, they are to marry. So, please show Biblical support that provides a solution for gays who 1) Do not have the gift of celibacy as described by Paul, and 2) Cannot marry.

 

[abanoubchrist]

Wrong, this is a myth. Sodom was not destroyed for homosexuality.

Ez 16:49 Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.


Can someone explain to me at what point, lying and presenting false information became acceptable in order to condemn others?​

Homosexuality was one of their sins ... We can infer that from the text:

And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; (He offered them his virgin daughters instead of the two men .... why???) let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.

Even if this text doesn't mean to you that they were homosexual or even you consider their sin wasn't homosexuality; we can see that there are other texts in the Holy Bible that prohibit such a sin:
1-For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. (The Book of Romans chapter 1 verses 26 and 27)




2- Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, (The Book of 1st Corinthians chapter six).


so such people will not inherit the kingdom of God as it's evident in the above mentioned texts.






when i said that gays can be Christians, I meant that they can do that without we know as we can't see what they hide from us. Here in Egypt, we don't let that happen. No gay can be Christian. He needs to repent and stop first.


when u say wrong explain why

i don't know what you mean by saying:
Can someone explain to me at what point, lying and presenting false information became acceptable in order to condemn others?

do you mean I use false information to condemn people???? look! I'm not God to condemn others. I'm just an ordinary person who reads what the Holy Bible says and judge according to it. And i don't mean someone in particular I'm speaking generally.

Can someone explain to me at what point, denying clear truths and twisting them became acceptable in order to defend the sinners ??? This is what you mean. I think.

When you need more evidence for what i say just ask and you will have it and don't accuse.

thanx

 

[Peripatetic]

So, please show Biblical support that provides a solution for gays who 1) Do not have the gift of celibacy as described by Paul, and 2) Cannot marry.

You could ask the same question about single people who are unable to find a spouse. Even finding a date is hard for some people, let alone a wife or husband. Personally, I know more people that fit into that category than homosexuals. They burn with the same desires that we do, but "cannot marry" even though they want to.

I think it's best to remember that the rules of the Bible are not there to condemn us, but to show us that we cannot be righteous and that we need God's grace. Each person being sanctified by the Holy Spirit is still living in sin. So for me, the equation is simple:

A Homosexual that has not given his/her sins over to Jesus and accepted the sanctifying grace of the Holy Spirit are not Christians and are in danger.

A homosexual who has a relationship with God and has received His gift of grace is a Christian and I will not question the way that the Holy Spirit is working his/her sanctification.

People spend way too much time worrying about who is or who isn't "good enough" to be a Christian. If we're even asking that question, we're missing one of the Bible's most important lessons.

John 13:34-35

34"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

Seems to me that a lot of homosexuals show more love for their fellow man than judgmental Christians that want to condemn them.

[Note: most of this post was in reference to the whole thread, not Jase's quoted post]

 

[razeontherock]

It may come as surprise to you, seeing how young you are, but nothing in the Bible says the practice of homosexual erotic acts is a sin. Many people who are not well educated on this issue continue to claim it is, but they would be emphatically wrong.

Right on vertigo age!

Ok Jase let's go. I've seen (in this thread?) a couple people cast doubt on the list on 1 Cor., so I give you a pass on that for now. Rev. has that nice little list beginning w/ the fearful and the unbelieving. Ro 1 has a pretty clear cut passage, as does Lev 18:22. And as much as I hate cliches, Genesis has G-d creating Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, w/ reproduction being irrelevant.

Those are just off the top of my head, w/o doing any looking. So, with all the wisdom you've accumulated in your 26 years, please dispel my false assumptions about these all condemning homosexuality.

Now, as to your claim wrt the Eze reference, 2 completely separate trains of thought:

1) Please notice the story of Sodom and Gomorrah is written first person, first-hand. Ezekiel didn't come along until some 800 years later, so anything he had to add to the story was purely G-d giving His vantage point, w/ no need to re-iterate what had already been plainly stated. That statement had been made quite clearly, and you can still pull up there with unlimited empty dumptrucks and haul away all the burned out brimstone you want, w/ no explanation for the geological phenomenon other than "it rained fire and brimstone."

2) Please actually look at Ezekiel. What is happening in that time period? What is being said in that book? What is being said in that passage?

And the answer is, nothing even close to what you claim. First of all, you're commenting on the sins of the women. This has a Spiritual connotation all it's own, but in any event is obviously quite distinct from the male of our species. It's the men of S & G that broke the last straw, not the women.

It doesn't take much reading to find that the context of this passage is that G-d sees all our sin. In 16:49 He's saying that even though that one offense
abanoubchrist quoted was enough for Him to burn the whole plain to the ground leaving it desolate forever, He also saw all the many other problems of S & G. Including the fact that Lot chose to live there.

Now, back to that list in Rev if you'd be so kind as to show us all the error of our ways. Rev 21:8

G-d also brings to our attention that Lot got there in the first place due to his own selfishness. Abraham avoided the whole problem via his generosity. Some good lessons in there for a young man such as yourself.

And, anybody else that's condoning homosexuality w/o repentance, please spell out your reasons or link to where you already have. 100 pages and multiple threads ought to yield something, huh?

And don't forget, none of us sit high enough to condemn another. This is about speaking the truth in love, folks.

 

[razeontherock]

BUMP - nobody has the gumption to tackle this? Then I guess we won't be seeing any more pro-gay stances on CF then.

 

[Skipton]

Jase,

It may come as surprise to you, seeing how young you are, but nothing in the Bible says the practice of homosexual erotic acts is a sin. Many people who are not well educated on this issue continue to claim it is, but they would be emphatically wrong. The word homosexual doesn't even exist in the original.

Thats a lie.
The Bible describes men abandoning the natural function with women and comitting indecent acts with each other. Thats homosexual in the modern definition.

You are entitled to say you dont believe it, but you are not entitled to say the Bible doesnt say what it says, thats a lie.

 

[TheUnwanted]

Is their anyway that gays can be christian ?

Is there any way that heterosexuals can be Christian?

 

[TheUnwanted]

The Bible describes men abandoning the natural function with women and comitting indecent acts with each other. Thats homosexual in the modern definition.

Sorry, but without calling anyone a liar, or denying any one else is a Christian, could you maybe explain in a calm and rational fashion how "abandoning natural function" equates with "homosexuality"?

 

[Skipton]

TheUnWanted,

Is there any way that heterosexuals can be Christian?

yes, to know and to seek to avoid sex outside faithful man and woman marriage, knowing and confessing that is an indication of Christian faith and Christian belief.

Sorry, but without calling anyone a liar, or denying any one else is a Christian, could you maybe explain in a calm and rational fashion how "abandoning natural function" equates with "homosexuality"?

Sorry but who has called another a liar? Sounds like a lie to me? I see I have called denial of what the Bible says a lie, I think by definition we can see it is.
lie 2 (l )
n.
1. A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
2. Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.
v. lied, ly·ing (lng), lies
v.intr.
1. To present false information with the intention of deceiving.
2. To convey a false image or impression: Appearances often lie.

Who has denied anyone else is a Christian? That seems like a lie. The basic statement of faith of a Christian is the Nicene Creed, casting doubts on the basics of the faith indicates not having a Christian belief. By definition.

how "abandoning natural function" equates with "homosexuality"?

That’s not what I wrote. Delighted to answer any questions on what I wrote.. “The Bible describes men abandoning the natural function with women and comitting indecent acts with each other. “ So men abandoning natural function with women and committing indecent acts with each other is what, homosexual or heterosexual? Its homosexual as opposed to heterosexual.

 

[TheUnwanted]

So men abandoning natural function with women and committing indecent acts with each other is what, homosexual or heterosexual? Its homosexual as opposed to heterosexual.

How do you figure?

And I've seen you accuse people of lying about 5 times already.

 

[interested in life]

thats because you keep presenting a distorted view of what the bible says.Thats not honest.Its obvious to peeps with accurate knowledge, what you guys are doing.
Im frankly amazed you keep attempting to portray your view as the christian view.Its another religion boss.
ps im not skipton.

 

[Skipton]

TheUnwanted,
No I was asking you how you figure men committing acts with men is heterosexual rather than homosexual.

 

[Skipton]

interested in life,
when it comes to the modern concept of 'homosexuality', they don't accept the Bible says what it says, nor do they accept it means what it says, which describes what the dictionary defines as homosexual rather than heterosexual.

What seems to be happening subsequently, is all who point out this lie as defined by the dictionary definition, disapears from the forum with bans and suspensions.

 

[TheUnwanted]

TheUnwanted,
No I was asking you how you figure men committing acts with men is heterosexual rather than homosexual.

I didn't say it was. But then, thats not what the Bible says, either.

 

[Satt]

"He who trusts in his own heart is a fool...." Proverbs 28:26 ​

"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, 'He catches the wise in their own craftiness'; and again, 'The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.'" 1 Corinthians 3:19-20
"...the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14-15​

"A fool has no delight in understanding, but in expressing his own heart." Proverbs 18:2


"The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but he who heeds counsel is wise." Proverbs 12:15

 

[TheUnwanted]

interested in life,
when it comes to the modern concept of 'homosexuality', they don't accept the Bible says what it says, nor do they accept it means what it says, which describes what the dictionary defines as homosexual rather than heterosexual.

What seems to be happening subsequently, is all who point out this lie as defined by the dictionary definition, disapears from the forum with bans and suspensions.

Which "dictionary definition" would that be?

 

[Skipton]

TheUnwanted,
All of them it would appear except the gay one you seem to be using. Give me a dictionary example of where homosexuality is man and woman as opposed to man and man.

 

[Skipton]

Satt,
Thats correct, believers see that, but believers restore, correct and rebuke other believers, they dont judge and expect the non-believers in the world to believe accpet or follow the word of God.
So the issue here is about the nature of Christianity, not homosexuality, Christianity is clear on homsoexuality, God detests its practice.