Homosexuality

[Mling]

No, it can't be said about ANYONE... heterosexual people can get married, and then no one ever questions them acting on their "fleshly desires"

In fact, if they do try to resist those desires, that is not considered noble or right, it is a dysfunctional marriage and counseling is recommended.

 

[StTherese]

No, it can't be said about ANYONE... heterosexual people can get married, and then no one ever questions them acting on their "fleshly desires"

The sole purpose of getting married is not to act on our fleshly desires; but the purpose of marriage is to glorify God through our marriage. (Not ourselves)

I don't believe EVERYONE is called to marriage. Paul even says that is BETTER to remain single so that you are free to dedicate ALL of yourself to God.

I believe homosexual attractions are the type of thing Paul was describing with the "thorn in the flesh" in 2 Corinthians 12:7-10. I'm not saying that Paul did in fact have homosexual attration (although it is possible); but that this "thorn in the flesh" was something Paul had to deal with constantly...a type of temptation or inclination of the flesh. (His "fleshy desires")

7 Therefore, that I might not become too elated, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, an angel of Satan, to beat me, to keep me from being too elated. 8 Three times I begged the Lord about this, that it might leave me, 9 but he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is made perfect in weakness." I will rather boast most gladly of my weaknesses, in order that the power of Christ may dwell with me. 10 Therefore, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and constraints, for the sake of Christ; for when I am weak, then I am strong.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

The sole purpose of getting married is not to act on our fleshly desires; but the purpose of marriage is to glorify God through our marriage. (Not ourselves)

That isn;t generally considered to be a component of any working definition of marriage I have ever come across, nor is it immediately obvious how it would work, even if it were true.

Apologies if I'm out of line, but it really sounds like an excuse to maintain a holier than thou attitude, and the test would seem simple... when he got down on his knee and asked you to marry him, how many seconds, minutes, hours or weeks went by before the "glorification of God" aspect of the deal even vaguely crossed your mind?

 

[StTherese]

No, I don't even believe that, it would be a lie, because of the way our bodies were made. I don't argue "original intent" or "Adam and Eve", but that sin defect (as opposed to sin temptation) has corrupted that way, much like the defects in other things, and diseases.

I don't believe it's a disease, I just believe it has come as a result of Defect from sin in the Garden of Eden. This is why I believe it is condoned and allowed, because it has nothing to do w/sin temptation, it has to do w/sin defect.

It has everything to do with SIN and TEMPTATION. It is because of sin, that we have inclinations to sin in the first place. This "sin defect" as you call it, is what I call concupiscence. Our first parents chose SIN over God. As a result of their decision, we are born into original sin. They were not created with original sin, but we are born into it. This concupiscence is a struggle within us...like something from within us is pulling at us to commit a sin. But, just because we now have this concupiscence doesn't mean we are just suppose to give into it. We still have the ability to choose (despite our weaknesses). Instead of being inclined to do the will of God, original sin resulted in our inclination to oppose God...we have to actively choose God over ourselves and our sinful nature.

 

[StTherese]

That isn;t generally considered to be a component of any working definition of marriage I have ever come across, nor is it immediately obvious how it would work, even if it were true.

Apologies if I'm out of line, but it really sounds like an excuse to maintain a holier than thou attitude, and the test would seem simple... when he got down on his knee and asked you to marry him, how many seconds, minutes, hours or weeks went by before the "glorification of God" aspect of the deal even vaguely crossed your mind?

I am sorry that you feel that way, but I never claimed to be without sin. To be honest with you, when I first got married, I had no idea what I was doing, or even why I was doing it. My intentions were probably not to do the will of God, actually, at that time of my life, I never even thought about God that much or even cared what He wanted me to do...so you could say that I was doing my own will. I never discerned whether or not God was in fact calling me to marriage because I didn't know that I should.

 

[BigBadWlf]

The sole purpose of getting married is not to act on our fleshly desires; but the purpose of marriage is to glorify God through our marriage. (Not ourselves)

I don't believe EVERYONE is called to marriage. Paul even says that is BETTER to remain single so that you are free to dedicate ALL of yourself to God.

I believe homosexual attractions are the type of thing Paul was describing with the "thorn in the flesh" in 2 Corinthians 12:7-10. I'm not saying that Paul did in fact have homosexual attration (although it is possible); but that this "thorn in the flesh" was something Paul had to deal with constantly...a type of temptation or inclination of the flesh. (His "fleshy desires")

7 Therefore, that I might not become too elated, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, an angel of Satan, to beat me, to keep me from being too elated. 8 Three times I begged the Lord about this, that it might leave me, 9 but he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is made perfect in weakness." I will rather boast most gladly of my weaknesses, in order that the power of Christ may dwell with me. 10 Therefore, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and constraints, for the sake of Christ; for when I am weak, then I am strong.

Yet in this very thread you have indicted that the sole purpose of two men or two women would get married/be in a relationship is their “fleshly desires”

I asked you previously why do you limit same sex relations to be only lustful? And you did not answer so I will pose the questions again.

How would you respond to the accusation that the ONLY reason you married was to satisfy your perverted sexual lusts?

Why are you limiting a minority from experiencing the same love you experience?

 

[MercuryAndy]

Yet in this very thread you have indicted that the sole purpose of two men or two women would get married/be in a relationship is their “fleshly desires”

I asked you previously why do you limit same sex relations to be only lustful? And you did not answer so I will pose the questions again.

How would you respond to the accusation that the ONLY reason you married was to satisfy your perverted sexual lusts?

Why are you limiting a minority from experiencing the same love you experience?

marriage is a bond between two people who love each other.

 

[BigBadWlf]

marriage is a bond between two people who love each other.

Yes I know.



Though I would expand that definition to include the fact that marriage is a legal and social contract between two people who if they don’t love each other at least enjoy each others company.

The questions posed to StTherese are about why she is posing a double standard on different kinds of marriage.

 

[davedjy]

It has everything to do with SIN and TEMPTATION. It is because of sin, that we have inclinations to sin in the first place. This "sin defect" as you call it, is what I call concupiscence. Our first parents chose SIN over God. As a result of their decision, we are born into original sin. They were not created with original sin, but we are born into it. This concupiscence is a struggle within us...like something from within us is pulling at us to commit a sin. But, just because we now have this concupiscence doesn't mean we are just suppose to give into it. We still have the ability to choose (despite our weaknesses). Instead of being inclined to do the will of God, original sin resulted in our inclination to oppose God...we have to actively choose God over ourselves and our sinful nature.

No, I don't believe it is that, those are your words. I believe it is inborn, it has nothing to do with "sin temptation".

All we want is to be able to get married like you guys, in a loving, monogamous relationship. Sad that you cannot see the distinction between the two.

 

[MercuryAndy]

No, I don't believe it is that, those are your words. I believe it is inborn, it has nothing to do with "sin temptation".

All we want is to be able to get married like you guys, in a loving, monogamous relationship. Sad that you cannot see the distinction between the two.

n/b sheep can not be in a relationship.

awww.

 

[simonthezealot]

Scripture says its a sin!
Case closed!

If one has to rationalize they've already sinned!

 

[MercuryAndy]

Scripture says its a sin!
Case closed!

If one has to rationalize they've already sinned!

you sin too.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

This seems elementary... if I am openly practicing a sin that the scriptures condemns and therefor do not meet the criterion upheld by scripture to uphold an office in the church of say pastor, then, of course I should not be a pastor. Whether it's adultery, or homosexuality doesn't make a difference.

 

[MercuryAndy]

This seems elementary... if I am openly practicing a sin that the scriptures condemns and therefor do not meet the criterion upheld by scripture to uphold an office in the church of say pastor, then, of course I should not be a pastor. Whether it's adultery, or homosexuality doesn't make a difference.

If being homosexual is a sin then so must eating pork be a sin.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

If being homosexual is a sin then so must eating pork be a sin.

If you are an orthodox Jew or a Muslim it is a sin I suppose. But I don't see where it applies to the NT standard for the offices established to be held in the church.

If you are a boyscout leader or a doctor, a lawyer or a nurse you have to meet certain standards. Church offices have certain standards. It's that simple.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Scripture says its a sin!
Case closed!

If one has to rationalize they've already sinned!

Hey Simon...I I I agree with you.

you sin too.

The point of scripture is to avoid sin, not dwell in it and make excuses.

Peace be with you.

 

[MercuryAndy]

If you are an orthodox Jew or a Muslim it is a sin I suppose. But I don't see where it applies to the NT standard for the offices established to be held in the church.

If you are a boyscout leader or a doctor, a lawyer or a nurse you have to meet certain standards. Church offices have certain standards. It's that simple.

the NT doesnt say anything about homosexuality but yet you claim the bible is against it. If you arnt going to follow all the bible dont critisise others when they dont.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

the NT doesnt say anything about homosexuality but yet you claim the bible is against it. If you arnt going to follow all the bible dont critisise others when they dont.

The NT speaks about fornication, homosexuality is listed in that definition. I'm not criticizing anyone I'm simply stating what I believe to be true according to the scriptures. You are very welcomed to disagree with me.

 

[StTherese]

Yes I know.



Though I would expand that definition to include the fact that marriage is a legal and social contract between two people who if they don’t love each other at least enjoy each others company.

The questions posed to StTherese are about why she is posing a double standard on different kinds of marriage.

Because homosexual acts go against the natural law instituted by God! You don't believe me, ask the Church you claim to be a part of!!! The Catholic Church delcares it to be sinful!!!!

 

[davedjy]

The NT speaks about fornication, homosexuality is listed in that definition. I'm not criticizing anyone I'm simply stating what I believe to be true according to the scriptures. You are very welcomed to disagree with me.

Not it isn't! Fornication was never referred to as homosexuality. Fornication wasn't even premarital sex! it was prostitution, adultery and incest. That's it!