home school

[CloudByDay]

I asked them about curricula, about managing all the different age groups in the household, about different resources they used. I was surprised, because only two of the families were actually familiar with any of the leading curricula.

If they had been homeschooling for a long time, there is a good chance they had found what worked for them years ago, and they had no need to go searching for the latest and newest curricula, so they weren't up on the latest "leading curricula" like you were, since you were just starting to look into it. In fact (my self not included) there are families out there who love to use the original or at least classic books, like the New England Primer. They believe in the old motto: "Don't reinvent the wheel." PS is constantly trying to reinvent the wheel, and they aren't getting good results. The curricula I purchased 18 years ago to teach my children to read is not the latest fad, and wasn't when I bought it, but it was called the "cadillac of reading programs" by Cathy Duffy, who writes the "bible" reviewing Homeschool Curricula. It worked so well, I'm going to keep it so my children can use it for their own children if they want to. I bet you wouldn't know the name of our reading curriculum, but I wouldn't assume that you wouldn't have been successful with the curricula you had chosen for your family.

My last church produced seven homeschool graduates the year I moved; one went into ministry, and the rest are still languishing in local department store jobs. Which is entirely "okay." I mean it's not like they're in prison. But when you have such a high turnout with a weak career path, I think there is something wrong with the education choices that were made.

One went into ministry, while the other 6 are all working in department stores? First, I find it hard to believe that all 6 are working in department stores, rather I am inclined to believe that you are embellishing your story to try to prove your point. But lets say that all 6 really are all working in department stores. I wouldn't call a high school graduate with a job a "weak" career path. They have jobs and are learning a work ethic. Have you read the statistics about unemployment of highschool and college graduates lately? Jesus' father, Joseph, was a carpenter, Paul was a tent maker. Peter was a fisherman. From many homeschool parent's perspective, having any honest, moral job is honorable.

Young adults in their late teens may not even know what they want to do later, as a career. It is better to let them experience life a little, working at a job, rather than throw money at a University so they can get a BS in something that they might not even use. Did you ask any of those parents their opinion about their children's career path?

I have actually told my children that they don't need to have it all figured out by the time they are 18. There is no magic age to start College. I went right out of high school, and changed my major. When I got a job using that major, I hated the environment. I went back in my 30's and got a second degree that got me out of the classroom. Similar situation with my husband. We wasted money going to college too soon. Our parents weren't "creative" in their approach to college, they were products of their PS system.

All of our children are thinking about what they would like to do to make money after hs. Rather than instantly thinking "college" we are helping them think of quicker and less expensive ways to get the training and expertise they will need to reach their goals. Now if they were going to be lawyers or doctors, they would have to go the traditional route. Most jobs in the real world don't require a college education, but they might require some training and experience.

I'm not trying to be offensive, but I need to say this. You sit in the seat of judgement, and seem to have everyone else's lives figured out for them, particularly all homeschoolers you have known or come in contact with. Every time you post, you are cutting down another family....or seven.

If you like PS, then have at it. I hope your children go straight to college, and you aren't disappointed by their choices. Homeschoolers in general, however, are trying to help their children find their own individual paths, even if it looks different to others. We are also very creative and think outside the box regarding education and many other areas of life.

 

[ProudMomxmany]

As a military family, homeschooling worked for us on many different levels. DoD schools are not that great, there's very little consistency. Also, as homeschoolers, we could live on the economy rather than in the military enclave behind the gates. The Navy wouldn't wait until the end of the school year to transfer you and there's at least a month's disruption while you're living in temporary quarters waiting to either be assigned quarters or find a new home. We did utilize the base for social activities, the MWR usually had great things for the kids and was a great resource until we could integrate into a community and find a church home. Homeschooling provided the consistency in their education that couldn't be found any other way.

I used pretty much the same curriculum from my oldest to my youngest. I couldn't tell you what the "latest and greatest" for any subject is. We use what works. By now, after doing this for about 25 years, I think I have it figured out. We do test every other year, and at worst the kids scored on grade level.

Until now, when my husband's latest health crisis hit, the kids were going along pretty well. We took a break for about a month when my husband's last crisis hit, the surgery and recovery where I had to live about 2 hours from home for a month. The older kids sort of took over and at least kept the young ones going. BUT...there was some serious slackage there and we schooled into July. We took August off and started back up at the beginning of September. Right now it's the holidays and we're not doing anything...and I don't have enough stable brain cells right now because of the latest hospitalization and I'm going in a variety of different directions all at once. BUT...they are already signed up for dance, swimming, spring sports. They are still working on their public service projects, thank God for older siblings who are willing to step in the breach for me.

As I said though, we may have to finish this year in PS. I don't know that I will be able to devote enough time to the children with the other stuff going on.

 

[akmom]

If I am understanding correctly, Cloud, you were once a public school teacher who became jaded by the experience, and have chosen homeschool for your own children. I would also venture to say you are very emotionally invested in this decision - as I find many homeschool families are - and are quick to label any criticism of it as ignorance. You are free to have those views.

The homeschoolers that have formed my views, I have known very well. I go to church with them, grew up with some of them, volunteered at schools with them before they went that route. None of my peers who graduated from homeschool went to college (at least not for long). Not all my children's homeschooled peers are having a successful experience either, and there seems to be this mentality that the challenges will pass and it will work out. Maybe it will; I can't possibly know that. I do feel like there is a pressure in some churches for families to homeschool, like it is some kind of ultimate parenting. I would never be so rude as to mention it, but the homeschooled kids in my kids' Sunday School class have poorer behaviors and lower academic skills than my own children, or the majority of children at their school. I just haven't been impressed with what I've seen in either generation of homeschoolers. (I myself was briefly homeschooled - don't know if I clarified that.)

My biggest beef with homeschool is not that it can't work, but that the families who make it work would be better off pooling their efforts toward the actual school system. It's that "public school is a failure and always will be" attitude that is self-defeating and simply untrue. There are many thriving public schools, and many communities that have taken the reigns and improved their schools or schooling options. And there are a lot of advantages to going to a real school (public or private) with multiple role models and academic resources. Most are very conducive to and appreciate of parent involvement.

 

[ProudMomxmany]

There are those who tried the PS system and discovered it did not serve their children adequately. A friend of mine was having problems with her son skipping school. The truant officer called her and told her that she needed to impress upon her son the importance of education...well, in this particular school, it was barely controlled chaos. The child tested in the gifted + range yet the school refused to put him in those classes because he was also diagnosed with ADHD and on the autism spectrum. This child sat in an English class, read the text book, disappeared for three weeks, popped back into class for a test on what he had read 3 weeks before and ended up getting the highest grade in the class.

Public schools DO NOT work. They do not adequately serve the varied population. They aim for the bottom of the middle and the rest either sink or swim. They teach to the barrage of standardized tests, they do not impart the greatest aim of education, that is HOW to think, to develop critical thinking skills. They give facts (and some of those facts are questionable at best) and then expect the children to regurgitate them on tests.

No thanks.

 

[CloudByDay]

akmom,
I really hope everything works out for you. You sound like you have some resentments you need to work through. You are still throwing out blanket statements about homeschoolers, and keep finding fault with their personal decision to opt out of your system. Only they can judge if it is working for them, yet you seem to be everyone's judge.

You demanded "evidence" and when I posted statistics from a major magazine, you ignored the data, and shifted your attack or throw out straw-man arguments. As I read your posts, you seem to be baiting and antagonizing to get a rise out of people.

When I taught PS, they were using what was then called, "Mastery Learning," meaning that 80% of the students had to "master" the material, by getting an 80% or higher grade in order for me to be able to move on. With that technique, the highest achieving students had to wait before we could move on, while the lazy students held everyone up. The lazy students never felt the pressure of failing, because we went over and over the material until they got it. This frustrated the high achievers, and I wasn't about to just give them more homework, so I moved one girl who was very frustrated up to the next (year) class and challenged her to catch up with them. She did, because that was the kind of person she was. I got very high evaluations on my teaching "technique" but I absolutely hated the system. How could I possibly help 100 to 120 students all achieve to the best of their ability when I was just a baby sitter to many of them, in their parent's opinion? The system is broken, no matter how well meaning the teachers are.

I couldn't believe it when I got better evaluations than a couple of tenured teachers in my department. I know I did a good job, but so did they! I guess the evaluator was looking for certain things, and I covered them all, while the tenured teachers had gotten lazy? They were usually more frazzled than I was, and yet they had been there longer than I. Usually the teacher's complaints were about students who acted up and made teaching and the general environment very difficult. One of my friends who got a lower evaluation score LOVED teaching, and the other was counting down the years to retirement. My stellar evaluation was another indication to me that something was wrong with the system. I taught like a robot, while my friend loved her job. Why did I get a better eval than she? I quit the year that I was to be tenured, because I didn't want to be trapped like my colleagues, or get burned like my friend did.

akmom, you must live in a very unusual community, where the hs-ers are losers and poorly behaved, while the PS-ers are all successful and well behaved! Hey, if I lived somewhere like that, I'd choose PS over hs any day.

Proudmom, don't worry if you can't school as well as you would normally do next semester. I had a very bad year a few years ago (lots of bad things going and school took second or even last place), and my children all did well over the long haul. I am so glad I didn't give up and put them in PS. It would have been difficult for them to adjust to hs again. Remember, homeschool is very flexible, and they can learn things quickly in a short period of time (next year when your husband is better and other things settle down). There is no need to do all the assignments if they understand the material. If you need to slow waaaay down, or miss a few days, don't worry about it as long as you are meeting the minimum requirements according to your state laws.

Even a bad year of homeschooling will turn out as well or better than an average year of PS-ing. You've been doing this for a long time, ProudMom, and I'm sure you'll make the best decision for your children. Don't let yourself get caught up in comparing your children or your hs to the PS, just keep focused on what is overall best for your family.

 

[ProudMomxmany]

The kids are being really good about promising to work on their own if they have to...evidently telling them I'm thinking of enrolling them in school is enough for them to promise the WORLD...something about having to actually wear "clothes" first thing in the morning (they tend to take their time getting dressed in the mornings) and having to walk or ride a bus to school is not something they want to do. So...I told them that they'd pretty much have to pick up the slack since mom is sorta scramble brained right now...and due to what IS going on, the kids are too. We'll muddle through and if we have to school through the summer, we will. I don't see a lot getting done in the next month or so. My oldest is offering to have the kids go up there (to Colorado) to take it off me for awhile...I'm seriously thinking of taking her up on that. (she's the one who owns her own graphic design business and homeschools her 4 kids). Her twins are about the same age as sons #4 & 5 and her oldest daughter is the same age as son #6. Daughter #6 is trying to decide if she wants to go or stay. She's 16 and well...friends, youth group, dance, her volunteer stuff...she's not sure she wants to move up to CO for a few months...Thank God I haven't signed the kids up for spring sports and stuff yet. I think I might talk to my oldest and we'll see about meeting up halfway...

 

[akmom]

Only they can judge if it is working for them, yet you seem to be everyone's judge.

What does that even mean? It's a forum for discussing what works and what doesn't. Not all debate is judgmental. I've seen public school work well, and homeschool fall short. It's not like I sit in these families' kitchens and judge their homeschool experience. These are frustrations and disorganization that homeschool parents have communicated to me themselves (albeit with resolve to continue), and mere observations that homeschoolers in my life haven't graduated from college.

you must live in a very unusual community, where the hs-ers are losers and poorly behaved, while the PS-ers are all successful and well behaved!

That is just an exaggerated and immature conclusion. All homeschoolers are angels, and all public schoolers are hellions? Really? And it's reversed in my community? I didn't say that. Of course there are behavior problems in public school. I've seen them, and I've also seen them addressed rather well, and I have definitely seen an improvement in the behavior of "problem children" from kindergarten to second grade. Our homeschooled Sunday school students aren't horrible either; they just lack the self-control to sit still and follow directions in an orderly manner, and their writing isn't as advanced as their peers. It's hardly a character assessment.

I had a great experience in public school, and so have my children. It sounds like you came from a bad school district or something, if you were responsible for 100-120 at a time and were overwhelmed before tenure. Maybe you just didn't have the support you needed as a novice teacher. I have been lucky to work with supportive and inspirational teachers at my children's school, and they've developed an arsenal of techniques for motivating students, disciplining students, and challenging the different levels of ability. And teaching to the test doesn't happen. Education has come a long way since I was a kid; I see them using hands-on learning and problem-solving in subjects that only got worksheets back in my day!

Sounds like we have been on the opposite ends of bad experiences. Hopefully users of the forum can discern the potential in both schooling options.

 

[CloudByDay]

Proudmom, it looks like you have a lot of options. Your daughter sounds awesome! My daughter wants to do graphic design, or something associated with art...from home!! I might PM you to find out more, if that is OK.

BTW, my husband liked your tag lines. He added, "We have 12 because 11 wasn't enough."

 

[ProudMomxmany]

Proudmom, it looks like you have a lot of options. Your daughter sounds awesome! My daughter wants to do graphic design, or something associated with art...from home!! I might PM you to find out more, if that is OK.

BTW, my husband liked your tag lines. He added, "We have 12 because 11 wasn't enough."

She is my uber-artistic kid...hated math and science and I don't think she can balance her checkbook still, but if you want to know about art and literature, she's the go-to girl! She's the one who read Shakespeare for fun. She's my oldest, 31, married, 4 kids and the most fun you can ever have wrapped in a 5'3", 115lb package!

Oh, and I have this OCD thing about even numbers...If we'd had a 13th child, it would have been 12 pregnancies (we have a set of twins), but 13 kids...so we decided that a dozen kids was a good place to stop...See, if I'd had the 13th kid, I'd have had to have the 14th kid which still would have made 13 pregnancies...so you can see how that would have ended up.

 

[CloudByDay]

I tried to PM you Proud Mama, but I can't until I have 15 posts! I'll post my PM to you here, and then maybe you could PM me back while I work on my 15 posts!

Hello,

I know this is the internet, so I don't want to ask you for your daughter's contact info. If you can tell me what she did to prepare herself, and how she went about having a job she can do from home, I would greatly appreciate it.

Our daughter who is interested in graphic arts is 16, a Junior, and I am trying to find ways to get her to learn the trade without shelling out unnecessary$ for a 4 year college. We're planning to get her into dual credit computer graphic art classes at the local CC next year. But it is just for a couple classes, and will last for a year. She'll be doing regular hs course work at the same time. I don't have any ideas about graphic arts beyond that! I'm trying to help her formulate a long-term plan, knowing it could change if she changes her mind and wants to do something else.

She's going to learn how to list some of her baked clay/painted creations on Ebay so she can learn how to photograph, use Ebay, learn about business, and maybe make a little money selling things she likes to make. She has amazing skills, patience, creativity and attention to detail. Actually, she works hard and does well in everything she sets her mind to...including math. But she isn't a math whiz, she is just a dedicated student.

Thanks for anything you can tell me about the graphic arts path, or any other ideas you have regarding a fast track for artistic people making a living using their talents.

CBD

 

[ProudMomxmany]

Hi CBD...
My daughter did the 2 year community college route and then worked for a graphics place for awhile, starting out as just a computer operator and eventually was running the whole production department. She started making free-lance contacts there and eventually started her own business. It was slow and took her a good 5-6 years to get going. She now will do designs for customers that they can take to the graphics place she used to work at...she is still on very good terms with them and they call her the minute they have a production problem. She also does some web design, mostly for car clubs (because of her involvement with the graphics place) and makes some money from that. Her husband is now the director of marketing for some company in Denver, so what she makes is more just "fun" money. It's not so much the education as the contacts from what she's told me.

 

[~Anastasia~]

There are those who tried the PS system and discovered it did not serve their children adequately. A friend of mine was having problems with her son skipping school. The truant officer called her and told her that she needed to impress upon her son the importance of education...well, in this particular school, it was barely controlled chaos. The child tested in the gifted + range yet the school refused to put him in those classes because he was also diagnosed with ADHD and on the autism spectrum. This child sat in an English class, read the text book, disappeared for three weeks, popped back into class for a test on what he had read 3 weeks before and ended up getting the highest grade in the class.

Public schools DO NOT work. They do not adequately serve the varied population. They aim for the bottom of the middle and the rest either sink or swim. They teach to the barrage of standardized tests, they do not impart the greatest aim of education, that is HOW to think, to develop critical thinking skills. They give facts (and some of those facts are questionable at best) and then expect the children to regurgitate them on tests.

No thanks.

Oh my goodness, that was me in public school! I always got straight A's, never had to study, and skipped school (sometimes for weeks) starting in about 4th grade. I HATED school. When I was there, I read my own books. I probably (honestly) have a low level ADD.

I enjoyed university, when I was finally able to challenge myself.

I did homeschool my daughter, and yes it was largely reactionary against my own childhood. That and we began simple academics at about 2-3 years old, so I was making use of resources the PS made available to homeschoolers, and I didn't like the way I saw teachers treating kids. And her education was of utmost importance to me, and I felt I could provide her the best possible education.

Socially she did extremely well. We were plugged into a local homeschool group, we formed a homeschool co-op with other families so parents could teach classes with our areas of expertise, and she participated in a weekly classroom setting organized by the PS. I had her evaluated yearly from kindergarten age on, and in her private interviews (I was not in the room with her) she was judged as interacting on a 12th grade level in kindergarten. She was socially even more advanced, by far, than she was academically. We had LOTS of interaction with people of all ages under a wide variety of conditions.

She also did outstandingly well academically. We did have to sort through curriculums. We discarded several math programs in short order, for example, before finding one that worked. I had already been involved in curricula development and often had to design them myself, or pulled parts from various ones. It did take a tremendous commitment and involvement.

Even so, as a teacher, the highest math I have taught is Algebra II. My plans were to enroll her in a paid class when she reached the end of my ability to school her, which she had very nearly done going into 7th grade.

That was when her father took her away, and she was placed in PS. She enjoyed the easy pace and coasted for a short while, but I guess soon started applying and challenging herself again. I didn't know where she was during those years - I had to piece that together.

But she's going to graduate soon, has won national awards for writing, is taking advanced calculus (I can't even help with her homework lol), scored well enough on her ACTs to get into all but a very few colleges, and has already been accepted to a good school, which she will enter with her first year's classes (most of them) waived due to her AP classes in high school.

It can work.

I don't think it's for everyone though. My work history and education prepared me to do this, and I was heavily committed, and for the right reasons. I met parents who were excited to know I was a homeschool mom because they wanted to homeschool "to keep their child away from all the other kids". I was so sad for them, because while I believe it's a good idea to monitor our kids, they have to live in the real world, and I thought that was the worst possible reason for wanting to homeschool. My apologies if I'm stepping on any toes. I wanted to know my daughter's peer group and that they were largely good kids, control the slant of what she was taught, protect her from biases that I thought could work against her faith, and more. I think all of that is good - it's just important (IMO) not to take a head-in-the-sand approach to accomplishing it.

 

[CloudByDay]

Link below to statistics showing if race, money spent on curriculum, parent's income, etc. have to do with student's performance in PS and in hs.

I had to add a bunch of stuff to the link to get it to post hre. to use it, do the following:

get rid of the ****space %%%%space and @@@@space for the link. Write www at the beginning.

Here's the link:

**** .hslda.org/docs/nche%%%% /000010/200410250.@@@@ asp

CBD

 

[graciesings]

I want to point out that most homeschool kids I know are better off socially than public school kids. Public school kids often don't learn manners because they're only around their age group. Lots of homeschool children are more polite and used to talking with adults.

If your daughter reaches the point where it's hard for you to teach her, you could enroll her in an online school or put her in at the local community college. There are even some curriculums that are designed for homeschoolers. Apologia (did I spell that right?) science curriculums use only easy-to-get items in their experiments. Teaching Textbooks is a math curriculum with DVD explanations of every problem. It is fairly expensive, though.

 

[homeofmew]

I want to point out that most homeschool kids I know are better off socially than public school kids. .

This is not necessarily true home schooled kids are sheltered I know many who do not know what is socially appropriate.

 

[akmom]

That is bound to be the case with someone whose only regular adult presence is their parents. Kids need perspective.

I know a lot of homeschoolers, and I continue to be unimpressed. Even the ones I meet online, who are able to put on their best act anonymously, end up giving away their immaturity and/or shortcomings on other threads. One of the posters on this thread later admitted to having a drug-addicted, promiscuous son whom they kicked out of the house before he graduated or turned 18. Wow. But at least they are homeschooling their younger children, because public school is evil, and obviously two people who failed and then gave up on their child are uniquely qualified to be the ONLY presence in their other children's lives.

I just reconnected with a friend from high school who pulled her 8-year-old out of school a year ago, homeschooled him for awhile, then forfeited custody to her parents. Makes me wonder if homeschooling itself drives parents to fail! I couldn't imagine her abandoning her kids a year ago!

 

[~Anastasia~]

Well, it's not a given that kids will be socially stunted.

I homeschooled my daughter through more than half of her schooling. She was evaluated yearly on a variety of levels, and during her kindergarten interview, the evaluator scored her on a 12th grade level for her social interview (which I did not even realize she was being evaluated on). She had to interview with an adult without me in the room.

She just graduated high school. (She finished up in public school.) She was voted Senior Superlative, due to a popularity vote of students. She led her ROTC group for most of her 4 years. She won plenty of awards and distinctions, including the President's Scholarship from her chosen University, which is awarded partially based on faculty interviews. Overall, she has won enough scholarships to give more more than a full ride for tuition and all living expenses. Technically - I suppose she doesn't need my financial support anymore.

She has friends, got a job on her own, is valued by her employer, and has a young man with plans to eventually marry, and his entire extended family love her dearly.

We were part of an active homeschool group with many families. She went on field trips, attended social functions, we had a co-op school, and much more. We were not unique in this; there were hundreds of home schooled kids in this area who had similar experiences.

I did get pulled aside by someone once who wanted to homeschool their child "to keep them away from other kids". Other than to point them to the social network, I did not help them in this effort, as I do not support socially isolating children.

A good homeschool group, and parents who homeschool for the right reasons, can produce socially adept and academically proficient children. That seems to be the rule among people I know, rather than the exception.

 

[Joseph Hazen]

Just for the record, the statistic say that homeschooled children are actually more likely to have fathers with advanced degrees, score better both in school and college, have a higher percentage of graduating college, (all regardless, by the way, of their parent's income, education, or the amount spent on their education) and score better on tests of maturity, socialization, etc.

Just in case we're interested in facts rather than "Well I have a friend who I know on Facebook who's sister home schools and her kids, from what I saw on their Livejournal…"

 

[homeofmew]

I never argued that home schooled kids get better grades.
Even when I was in public school the parents who re read and sometimes rewrite my essays and use words i never would use in elementary or middle school.

So Im sure home-schooled parents do the same but on a harder level.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I never argued that home schooled kids get better grades.
Even when I was in public school the parents who re read and sometimes rewrite my essays and use words i never would use in elementary or middle school.

So Im sure home-schooled parents do the same but on a harder level.

I'm not sure how that makes sense. If a parent is teaching, and grading, why would they re-write a child's work?

You adjust your teaching based on how the kids are doing, but doing the work yourself is pointless. Who is going to see it besides the parent? (Unless it's one of those school-at-home charter/umbrella or online schools?)