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homeofmew

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I have 2 friends who were home schooled
and they do not get the concept of whats socially appropriate.
On top of that in my opinion both of their math skills are horrid, I haven't seen a home schooled child do well in Pre calculus or Calculus and before I get yelled at and saying most kids aren't required to take those whatever, Here in Texas you HAVE to take 4 years of math to graduate, and at the normal level that is Pre cal/ Cal.
 
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homeschool1

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We have been homeschooling for almost a decade and I've been a homeschool group leader for years.

I have met less than 10 kids out of 100's who were "awkward" and I would say that is an extremely LOW percentage compared to kids who go to government funded schools.

AND the kids have good family life and actually LIKE their parents.

Colleges seek out homeschoolers because of many reasons.

You can see the ExploringHomeschooling com site for stats and facts. Or go to NHERI org.

IF you want to know the truth yourself, get plugged in to your local homeschool groups and see with your own eyes. You will be pleasantly surprised.
 
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homeofmew

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I know that Universities accept home schooled children
However you did ask for an opionion and I gave you mine then you get all defensive.

It also depends where you to to public school too, for me I did 11th and 12th Grade here in Houston. I had two teachers who was openly christian (and one went to the church I went to at that time) and one who was openly Jewish.

The Speech program allowed you to quote the bible for debates. Of course if you were another religion you could quote your holy book too. Many Public Schools here Let Small meetings of Christians borrow their campus for church on Sundays.
(of course they have to let other religions borrow it too)

Anyway going back to the point of Mathematics, many students have Math problems, home schooled or not, I'm a tutor and many of my clients are home schooled. Sure the 1 on 1 is good, but some of the kids weren't taught enough for Higher level math.
Why because their parents can't teach Algebra and above. I'm sure some can but many can't.
 
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ProudMomxmany

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So far, I'm 10 for 12 on Algebra/Geometry/Algebra 2/Trig. I took math courses when the kids were young so I'd have enough background (and refresh my memory) when the time came. For advanced science, they either did online or went to the local community college. By the time they are in "high school" there are many alternatives to the good old dining room table.

Social-awkwardness...I have one who's a little "strange" but he was diagnosed with Asperger's at the age of 5. He completed an apprenticeship and is an electrician now, married, one little boy...

My kids were free to pursue what interested them for "extra-curricular" activities. We had dance, gymnastics, football, baseball, soccer, swimming, Bible club, Youth Group, homeschool co-op and all sorts of other activities. Social, yes...awkward...not really. Some of the kids were on the introverted side and preferred solitary activities, others were very social and preferred team activities.

Oh..and I'm 10 of 12 because the last 2 are 6th and 7th graders.
 
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homeofmew

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Some parents do have the capability of teaching their kids normal level math, but I see home schoolers boast and boast their kid is advanced. Then they have no evidence for this at all. It also depends on where you live, different countries, even in US states makes a huge difference. For example if you live in japan your 5th grader would be learning geometry and would be learning complex calculus by the end of high school.

Here in Texas, you must graduate with 4 years of math and Science for High School.
This means that Algebra, Geometry, Algebra II and Pre Cal is THE ABSOLUTE MINIMUM you can do here. You also have to take High School Physics, which basically uses lower level calculus.

Assuming Homeschooled kids have the same requirements, my concern is some parents can't do it .

Middle School is a tough time I am not going to lie, it was a lot harder then High School.
Also think on what you kids want. Are they happy being home schooled if so keep them there.
 
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ProudMomxmany

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Ummm....there was 2 different physics tracks at the CC. One was "college" physics and the other was "University" physics. One was algebra based and the other was calculus based.

My big kids, once they got the basics down (like 7th-8th grade) pretty much controlled their own education. We have free K-12 online available, among other opportunities. I wouldn't know if the kids were ahead or not, but the bigger kids must have done ok...I have 2 nurses, a cop, a teacher, a graphic artist, a soldier and an electrician.
 
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homeofmew

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^ this is true at however I was talking about the High School Level, which uses Algebra and Calculus I, I never took College or University Physics, I took the Chemistry route (which uses Algebra type math) and geology ( I really like rocks I think fools gold is cool xD), as a mathematics major they were open to mostly any lab/science class. But From what I understand University Physics is higher level Calculus, which the normal parent would not be able to do (if there kid was AP).
 
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ProudMomxmany

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Yeah...that's the stuff they go to the CC for, if they want it. A couple that we are friends with...he's a math professor...and will help the kids. Now...if only I could get #8 to decide on a major...(he's undecided between forensic science a la Abby Shutto from NCIS and mechanical/chemical engineering).
 
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homeofmew

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^ Exactly my point and this is what happens to me I get home schooled kids coming to me because their parents can't do the work, huge problem . Now for you you'd probably pay the nice man a decent price however I get a lot of Christian home schoolers clamoring for a discounts because they are in my same church ect. People like me can't do this.
 
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CloudByDay

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I see home schoolers boast and boast their kid is advanced. Then they have no evidence for this at all.
homeofmew'sr opinions are not aligned with the actual evidence. The evidence in favor of homeschooling is mounting, over years of homeschoolers taking standardized testing, and their scores being compared to those of public schools.

To see a link, about homeschool standardized test scores, Google "statisticbrain home-school-statistics" for a link to see them.

For another link to an article in the Washington Times about the success and statistics for homeschooling, Google "Washington Times Homeschooling Results National Tests."

****I tried to put a direct link to these articles, but since I have posted under 50 times, I wasn't allowed. Sorry to cause those interested extra work. I understand the reasons for the rules regarding links, and the need to try to filter for trolls.****

Homeschoolers take the same standardized tests as public schooled students, and score higher than public schoolers, year after year. The beauty of it is that there is no "standard curriculum" for homeschoolers and parents don't have to have degrees or expertise in the fields they teach their children in order for their children to become educated people. What homeofmew is trying to promote are myths, and with the passage of time, along with the data being compiled, the myths are being disproven.

I suspect, however that data and facts won't change homeofmew's attacks on homeschooling, because she is biased and has personal reasons for her dislike.
 
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ProudMomxmany

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^ Exactly my point and this is what happens to me I get home schooled kids coming to me because their parents can't do the work, huge problem . Now for you you'd probably pay the nice man a decent price however I get a lot of Christian home schoolers clamoring for a discounts because they are in my same church ect. People like me can't do this.

Discounts? No...he actually never asked for a dime even though we offered. He enjoys teaching and he takes "payment" in homemade cookies. I would not dream of asking for a discount for anything.

Now...as far as I know Texas homeschoolers are not necessarily held to the PS standards. I have a friend who's a long time homeschooling mom that lives just outside Dallas.

Also 4 years of HS math (algebra 1, geometry, algebra 2, whatever) is usually based on a child's aptitude for math. There are a number of different math classes that would fulfill the 4 year requirement.

As I have said, I'm good through Algebra 2/Trig. After that, forget it, I'm useless. That's why we have the availability of online classes, the local CC, etc.

Homeschooling shouldn't be done only at the dining room table with Mommy as teacher. That's no better than the institutional school experience. Most of the homeschoolers I know are out and about to provide educational experiences anywhere and everywhere. A trip to the grocery store can be turned into a math lesson...calculating per unit prices, sales tax and discount percentages, estimating the total bill...

There are a few who give homeschoolers a bad name, who provide a sub-standard education to their children. In many ways, while I like the freedom of homeschooling, I wish there was required testing to catch those sub-standard homeschoolers.
 
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CloudByDay

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Homeschooling shouldn't be done only at the dining room table with Mommy as teacher. That's no better than the institutional school experience.

Homeschooling "should" be done the way the parents deem is best for their own children. Whether they do it at the table with Mommy (or Daddy) as teacher, or they run themselves ragged, driving all over the countryside from co-op to co-op, the data is showing that homeschool works. Some children do best with workbooks, some children do better with hands-on.


There are a few who give homeschoolers a bad name, who provide a sub-standard education to their children. In many ways, while I like the freedom of homeschooling, I wish there was required testing to catch those sub-standard homeschoolers.

In my state everyone must do standardized testing in grades 3, 6, and 9. A homeschooler must get remedial help if their student scores below 13%, which is determined by the PS scores each year. I know many homeschoolers who do the standardized testing every year, because their students think it is fun.

My own children's scores last year placed them several years ahead of their grade level, in the 90% and 100% ranges. In one area which we haven't focused in the last couple of years, they scored slightly below average, in the 40%, no way near 13%. No surprises. Their average scores were still a couple of years above their grade level. This year they are motivated to do two years of work in the subject they scored lower in...their choice, not mine.

It is disconcerting that people feel they have a right to judge other people's children and education, just because they are homeschooling. People don't look at their PS neighbors' children and ask for their grades, or call their PS teachers and school "substandard" even if that child is in remedial courses in the PS system. However, when a homeschool needs help a complex math problem, anti-homeschoolers jump to condemn their parents, even when their parents are proactive in procuring a tutor.

homeofmew, have you you shared your disdain for your homeschooling church members, so they know where you stand? Do you talk poorly about your PS students and their families?

Regarding Universities accepting homeschooled children: homeschooled children are not just "accepted" but they are embraced, because they have proven they are more likely to succeed in University. Homeschooled students are used to taking more responsibility in their own education. They have not been accustomed to being spoon fed the information in dumbed-down little bits, but know how to dig in to the material and teach themselves.
edited to fix font, size etc. Sorry, still learning how to post here.:blush:
 
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akmom

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I come from an area where homeschooling is common, and it can be a good option for young children. Most of the homeschooling families I know circulated through public and private schools, and the parents were very involved in them. It's always disappointing to see parents with a heavy volunteering presence at the school suddenly bow out and homeschool instead. But their children typically return for high school.

Now I've never seen a homeschooled child go all the way through high school and emerge with a normal life. Often they go to college and drop out, because the experience is overwhelming. Also, a parent has no business homeschooling if they are not sufficiently educated themselves. I know a lot of people say they can do it, but I think that's because they have no idea what they're doing. Also, there is no way a truly homeschooled high schooler is getting all the library and lab resources available to them to be well-rounded and ready for any program in college. Of course, if they are utilizing the community college, or other accredited outside resources, that is entirely different. Then again, I don't consider that strictly "homeschooling" any more.

CloudByDay, your research doesn't take into account number of years homeschooled or the grade level of the homeschooler, nor does it account for college graduation rates by degree type. I think that's crucial to the whole picture. I do think most people are familiar with the statistics on homeschooling in general, and how they are favorable in terms of standardized tests. You also have to consider the demographics; homeschool families are highly involved in their child's education. So the academic prospects for the child are high in that regard. I think the question is, can homeschooling through high school prepare a student the same way that an accredited school can? I have yet to see any research supporting that.
 
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ProudMomxmany

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Now I've never seen a homeschooled child go all the way through high school and emerge with a normal life. Often they go to college and drop out, because the experience is overwhelming. Also, a parent has no business homeschooling if they are not sufficiently educated themselves. I know a lot of people say they can do it, but I think that's because they have no idea what they're doing. Also, there is no way a truly homeschooled high schooler is getting all the library and lab resources available to them to be well-rounded and ready for any program in college. Of course, if they are utilizing the community college, or other accredited outside resources, that is entirely different. Then again, I don't consider that strictly "homeschooling" any more.

CloudByDay, your research doesn't take into account number of years homeschooled or the grade level of the homeschooler, nor does it account for college graduation rates by degree type. I think that's crucial to the whole picture. I do think most people are familiar with the statistics on homeschooling in general, and how they are favorable in terms of standardized tests. You also have to consider the demographics; homeschool families are highly involved in their child's education. So the academic prospects for the child are high in that regard. I think the question is, can homeschooling through high school prepare a student the same way that an accredited school can? I have yet to see any research supporting that.

If someone who homeschools chooses to avail herself and her children of community resources to enhance their education, why is that not homeschooling?

I think there's a problem with using the blanket term "homeschooling". There are many different styles of hs'ing. There are those who attempt K-12 using a canned curriculum and never moving from the dining room table or local computer terminal. There are others who combine textbook learning, online learning, early admission to a CC (the local CCs will take hs'ing kids at 16) along with other resources. I've known hs'ing families who do the total segregation from any sort of outside life experience. Those kids are usually the basket cases, but in my experience, these parents are the ultra right wing fundamentalist types who think if the kids go to the Circle K by themselves, they'll start drinking, smoking and fornicating.

Kids that have a more rounded hs'ing experience usually have no problems adjusting to the outside world because they've already been in it. As a military family and as Christians, homeschooling was and is the best choice for us. However, I may have to consider putting the children in school for the rest of this school year due to some problems my husband is having. We'll see what happens...
 
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CloudByDay

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I can't post links because I haven't posted 50 times here. The evidence you are looking for has been published. Google "homeschooled kids go to college statistics" and look for an article in the secular magazine, US News and World Report, called "Homeschool Teens Ripe For College."

This is a quote from that article:

"More than 2 million U.S. students in grades K-12 were home-schooled in 2010, accounting for nearly 4 percent of all school-aged children, according to the National Home Education Research Institute. Studies suggest that those who go on to college will outperform their peers.

Students coming from a home school graduated college at a higher rate than their peers—66.7 percent compared to 57.5 percent—and earned higher grade point averages along the way, according to a study that compared students at one doctoral university from 2004-2009."



I come from an area where homeschooling is common, and it can be a good option for young children. Most of the homeschooling families I know circulated through public and private schools, and the parents were very involved in them. It's always disappointing to see parents with a heavy volunteering presence at the school suddenly bow out and homeschool instead.

If they were homeschooling their young children, or if they were circulating through private and public schools, how could they be volunteering at your school too? They can't be doing all those things at the same time. Why are you not complaining about the PS parents who are neither volunteering nor homeschooling? You seem fixated on the families who chose to homeschool, rather than the families who use the system, yet give nothing back.

It sounds like you have known a couple of homeschool families, and you are blending your perceptions of their stories together to formulate a case against all homeschoolers.


But their children typically return for high school. You are only aware of the few homeschoolers who are under your radar. You have no idea about the ones who have never used public or private schools and who have no need to volunteer because they are home doing all the work for themselves.

Now I've never seen a homeschooled child go all the way through high school and emerge with a normal life. Often they go to college and drop out, because the experience is overwhelming.

We have very good homeschooling friends we met when they lived near us, but they now live in Alaska. They are some of those "fundamentalist types" that Proudmomxmany talked about. Their family didn't join any outside co-ops, did church at home, and their children were the sweetest, well grounded children I have ever known. Our children were academically ahead of theirs in some subjects, and their children were ahead of ours in other areas. This happens even in PS where all the children have the same subjects and teachers. However, if I wanted to pick their family and lifestyle apart, I'm sure I could find "faults" but hey, everyone is different! People who have an axe to grind against homeschooling, overstep all kinds of normal boundaries in an effort to find fault with homeschooling families.

The Alaska family's oldest child started taking college classes when he was 16. He didn't go wild while he was on campus. He has been teaching their oldest daughter math, using his college texts. She is now telling our daughter (they keep in touch over the phone) that she is going to start college classes soon.


Now I've never seen a homeschooled child go all the way through high school and emerge with a normal life. Often they go to college and drop out, because the experience is overwhelming.

This is hard to believe. How many homeschooling children have you known? If this is true, are those people truly homeschooling or are they just using the word "homeschooling" as a guise for not doing anything? All the homeschooling families I know are committed to doing the very best they can, based on their criteria, and in conjunction with their state laws.

I don't know your criteria for "a normal life." Could you share that with us?

I have lived in two communities where there were at least 3,000 homeschooling children combined, coming from a few hundred families. Almost every homeschooler I have known (or heard about through the grapevine) has had a "normal life" after homeschooling, whether they went to University, joined the Armed Forces, got a job, or got married and started a family. There are many paths to being a productive citizen in society.

I have personally known of a few homeschoolers who rebelled as teens, just like some PS children, but they were by far the minority. Even those that rebelled got their acts together, got jobs or joined the military, and did not end up addicted to drugs or on public assistance. I have heard of only one homeschooler in the two communites where we have lived, who went to prison. One out of several thousand ain't bad.

Perhaps you were already biased against homeschooling because their presence threatens your job security, or causes you to feel insecure or guilty about your own choices? I don't know how many times I've been told by a PS mom, "I admire you....I could never homeschool my kids...I am just too selfish...My children would never listen to me... we would kill each other...I just don't want to live on one income...Being with my kids all day would drive me crazy...I would like to but I don't think I could learn where and how to find curriculum...I don't think I could learn to teach different subjects...."yada, yada, yada.

The common denominator to every one of these instances, is I didn't tell them that they should homeschool, I didn't hint it. I didn't even think it. Their own consciences compared themselves to me. I would never hint or look down on someone who doesn't homeschool. It is a personal decision, not to be taken lightly. If the person is a Christian, they should homeschool only if they feel led by God to homeschool, so they can draw upon His strength to guide them, and get them through the challenges one day at a time. If I didn't have the help of God, I wouldn't have the emotional, spiritual and physical strength to continue doing it day after day.

I used to be a public school teacher before I was married and had children. I will never forget the union pressure that came around every year. I knew several teachers who absolutely hated the stress of their job, and who were counting down every day until they retired. (I was in my late 20's and no where near retiring. I watched these teachers with interest, because I am one who wants to learn from others, and not have to go through the school of hard knocks.) They weren't bad people. They were just people in a bad situation. They loved the the subject matter they taught, but they didn't love the stress of the messed up culture and the disrespect of the students, or the constant demands of the School District. They needed a paycheck. They had to pretend they were there because they loved their students, and that they weren't there for the paycheck. They had to jump through hoops, on a regular basis to prove to the school district they had the qualifications to teach, and yet the students as a whole were getting lower and lower scores on standardized testing. This meant more and more training for the teachers.

The paycheck is one reason teachers are threatened by homeschooling. If every family homeschooled their children, and pooled their own resources for tutors among themselves, there would be no one in PS, and the teachers wouldn't have a job.

Another reason teachers are threatened by homeschooling, has been very well articulated by akmom and homeofmew.


Also, a parent has no business homeschooling if they are not sufficiently educated themselves. I know a lot of people say they can do it, but I think that's because they have no idea what they're doing.

"Uneducated" parents are turning out well educated students who score higher on standardized tests than PS students taught by "well educated" teachers. This has got to sting, and be very scary, especially when someone's job and money come into play.

Back to your statement that homeschoolers drop out of college: I have been homeschooling for over 18 years, in two different homeschooling communities, and I don't know of one homeschooler who dropped out of college. I'm sure there are some, just like some PS students drop out of college. All of the homeschooled children I know personally and know about through other families are doing very well in college.

So far, in the community where we now live, I know of three homeschoolers who got full ride scholarships to college. All three scholarships are for undergraduate studies at liberal arts colleges, but one wants to be a lawyer, the other a physician, and I don't know what the third one's long term goals are. I know another girl who is applying to Julliard, and she wants to become a college professor with a focus on piano. She has competed in college level competitions and is hoping to be offered a scholarship.

Look up the eBricks Lego store. It was started by a homeschool boy when he was a kid, and he ran it from home. He went to college and studied business. His lego business now has its own building and is big enough to support his own young family.


Also, there is no way a truly homeschooled high schooler is getting all the library and lab resources available to them to be well-rounded and ready for any program in college.

What do you mean by "truly homeschooled." You might look up your state's homeschool law, before you begin to interject your own opinion into what is "truly homeschooled" and what is not. The laws are very minimal and broad, and it sounds like you have a very narrow mental picture of what you think homeschooling is. Evidently, homeschooling children are getting their library and lab resources covered sufficiently in order to score well enough on the ACT and SAT not only be admitted into Universities across the nation, but get scholarships.


Of course, if they are utilizing the community college, or other accredited outside resources, that is entirely different. Then again, I don't consider that strictly "homeschooling" any more.

akmom, again, look at the homeschool laws for each state. Your personal opinion has no bearing on the reality of what homeschooling actually is. "Homeschooling" means that the parents, not government paid teachers and counselors, are deciding the best way to educate their children, but that the parents are adhering to a very minimal list of requirements. How they meet those requirements is their own business. Whether the parents do the teaching themselves, or pay tuition to a college or tutor, homeschooling means it is the parents deciding their child's educational path.

akmom. You're all over the place in your last paragraph, and they are all straw man arguments. Sigh..., I'll take it one phrase at a time.


CloudByDay, your research doesn't take into account number of years homeschooled or the grade level of the homeschooler,

It doesn't matter. Homeschool standardized test scores are higher, no matter what grade level. Usually when a child begins homeschooling part way through a PS education, it is because they were not doing so well in PS, and they begin to do better, and score higher on standardized tests after they begin homeschooling.

nor does it account for college graduation rates by degree type.

And why does this matter? Can you provide this data for PS students? Are you willing to say that if Kansas doesn't produce as many engineers as Silicon Valley, CA, that Kansas'es PS are failing?

I think that's crucial to the whole picture.

The "whole picture" is that homeschooled children are getting, on the whole, a good education, which is already being measured by their standardized test scores, and the fact that most homeschoolers who want to go to college, actually get in, and do well.

I do think most people are familiar with the statistics on homeschooling in general, and how they are favorable in terms of standardized tests. You also have to consider the demographics; homeschool families are highly involved in their child's education. So the academic prospects for the child are high in that regard.

Yes, and your problem with all that is...?


I think the question is, can homeschooling through high school prepare a student the same way that an accredited school can? I have yet to see any research reporting that.

See the top of my post for a link to research proving homeschooling is not only working, but is turning out better students, not only in high school, but college. Please do some research yourself. You won't be able to find any research proving that "the whole picture" as you call it, is bad. You will only find a few bad apples, but that don't spoil the whole bunch, girl.

I hope I've addressed all your concerns.

CloudByDay
 
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CloudByDay

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I think there's a problem with using the blanket term "homeschooling". There are many different styles of hs'ing. There are those who attempt K-12 using a canned curriculum and never moving from the dining room table or local computer terminal.

For those who don't know, K-12 is not "homeschooling" according to each state's hs law. It falls under Public School law and funding. When the government decides the curricula, their professionals oversee it, and the government pays for it, it is not hs-ing. While the learning is occurring at home, the curricula and methods are not chosen by the parents. It is better described as "Public Schooling at Home, or PSaH." Since K-12 began, the research is showing that students of parents who choose PSaH are scoring even lower on Standardized Tests than regular PS students do.

There is something else that is masquerading as independent hs-ing. It is called something different in every county, so I won't bother naming it here. Let's just say, if you know someone who calls themself a hs-er and who needs receipts in order to get reimbursed by the local school district for school related things, they are part of the "other PSaH program." I've spoken with several of these people, and they throw the word "homeschool" around, without having any knowledge of what the law actually says, and they will not even read the law if you hand a copy of it to them.

As an independent hs-er, I do not need any receipts, certificates of completion, approval, etc., and I don't get any money reimbursed to me by our local school district.

Families in the 2nd type of PSaH cannot join the The Home School Legal Defense Association also known as HSLDA which is an international organization that provides legal advice and representation to all members. They have even stepped in to help international homeschoolers who are being persecuted and thrown in jail for homeschooling in their own countries. The HSLDA clearly states on their website what the criteria for hs is, and that when a family is getting money reimbursed from their school district, they fall under PS law, not hs law.

Families who participate in this PS program in our school district can get up to $2,000 reimbursed, per child enrolled, but they have to jump through all sorts of hoops to get the money. They insist they are "hs-ing" because their children are not in a brick and mortar school, and they have some choice as to curriculum, paid tutors, etc., yet they must get approval from their government employed teacher/advisor/overseer for everything they do. You will recognize these PSaH families by the fact that they are involved in all types of activities, and they are always concerned with getting the receipts, filling out the forms to get their money back, etc.

In some counties people in these programs must delete the name "God" if it is in their textbook in order to get the government money, they have to make sure the class hours add up to waaaay more than the state's actual homeschool law requires, adhering to state laws for PS courses and "Carnegie Units" instead of homeschool law, and a myriad of other "rules." As time goes on, local school districts are adding more and more rules.

Time has proven that PS and all their accreditation and rules isn't working as well as traditional, parent directed hs-ing, yet the PS lures potential hs-ers in with $ and then starts making rules. :confused:

The children in this PS funded program are doing all sorts of interesting things that cost lots of money that average independent hs-ers can't afford, and that is what sucks unwitting families in.

Students getting their education this way do score higher than the ones who only do K-12 on the computer at home, because the parents are doing all of the actual work (except for classes with paid teachers and tutors), but not as well as non government funded homeschoolers!

Standardized test scores for the non k-12 partially government funded program I described also go toward the PS test score pool. My belief is the local PS want those scores to prop up their own failing scores, otherwise they would let the homeschoolers have them. The parents are actually doing a lot of the work, rushing their children all over to the best private teachers and tutors, and the PS only has to give them $2K for it, not the full $7K to $9K it would cost to educate them in a government building, using government teachers. Our family decided to not give up any of our freedoms, not get any extra $$ for fancy classes, and to let the hs-ers benefit from our high test scores, since we are one of them.


I may have to consider putting the children in school for the rest of this school year due to some problems my husband is having. We'll see what happens...


ProudmomXmany, I pray things work out for your husband and your family.
 
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akmom

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I grew up with about twenty families who homeschooled K-12 and not a single one graduated from college. I'm still close to some of them, via Facebook, and they're all paranoid and have huge misconceptions about science and current events.

That very well could be an Alaska thing. I won't argue against having a bias based on the many homeschooling families I know whose homeschooling is a joke. Perhaps that is not a nationwide phenomenon. But I'm really differentiating between "young homeschoolers" and "high school homeschoolers" because they seem to apply two very different ideologies (in my community, at least).

I volunteer at a public school for half a day each week. Quite a few parents do. And it seems that a big chunk of those parents are the ones who end up homeschooling. It's a shame because their time and efforts are valuable to all the students, and when they make that switch, we lose that. "We" as in the public school community, of which my children are a part. Of course they have a right to do what they want. They don't owe their local public school anything. But it is nice, has a huge positive impact on the students, and thus it's a shame when they're gone.

The lifelong homeschoolers, totally different, odd bunch. Not involved in the community and have nothing positive to say about it. ProudMommy describes them as ultraconservative, but I don't know about that terminology. I consider myself conservative, but there's not much overlap in ideology...

I am pretty much a stay-at-home mom, despite a disposable part-time job. Don't need my job, could stop and homeschool any time I wanted, have considered it extensively. Personally I feel like anything I could teach my children, I can teach them in the evenings, weekends, holidays, summer vacation... whenever. Sending them to school doesn't cut into it that much. So I chose instead to send them to public school, help out the classroom regularly, and maintain a learning environment at home too. Works for us, perfectly happy with it, and know a few parents who share that philosophy. I don't get paid for my time in the classroom; I do it for my kids, not any kind of financial investment in the public school system. My perspective on it is, if people feel like they have to pull their kids out of public school to get their grades up, then maybe... just maybe... all those parents could instead pool their efforts and contribute to the school instead. Then maybe public schools would have the support they needed to be effective and we wouldn't have this mass movement to homeschool. Just a thought.
 
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CloudByDay

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The lifelong homeschoolers, totally different, odd bunch. Not involved in the community and have nothing positive to say about it. ProudMommy describes them as ultraconservative, but I don't know about that terminology. I consider myself conservative, but there's not much overlap in ideology...

Ahh, so there is a community of homeschoolers that you know nothing about except for your view from the outside. Perhaps you need to look beyond their "totally different, odd" exterior, and actually get to know them. You will probably find that they have some different opinions than you do about certain social/culteral topics, but I suspect that if you learn anything about their academic success, and community involvement, you will find your negative assumptions debunked.

The hs-ers are usuallly are very involved in their communities. They are just involved in activities that are not linked to the local PS district. While PS parents are involved in their local school sports and school related activities and fundraisers, hs-ers are involved more in 4-H, Chamber of Commerce activities, volunteering at Nursing Homes, competing in non PS sponsored activities. Hs-ers get involved in more diverse, real-life organizations, while PSers are ostly involved in things sponsored by their school. My girls have a really good hs friend who won 1st place in her class, for the 2nd year, for the Gingerbread House Competition in a nearby town this year.

I know another hs family whose children are already competing in mountain biking racing. PSers are in their school sports, and hs-ers have the freedom and time to get involved in any sport or activity that will accept them.

There is a group of high school aged hs-ers who created a local Right-to-Life chapter. Of course this is not associated with any public high school, because of the subject matter.

Do you think there might be a chance that your knowledge of the "different, odd homeschoolers" community involvement might be limited by your own limited sphere of involvement and that you are just judging people you really know nothing about?


I am pretty much a stay-at-home mom, despite a disposable part-time job. Don't need my job, could stop and homeschool any time I wanted, have considered it extensively. Personally I feel like anything I could teach my children, I can teach them in the evenings, weekends, holidays, summer vacation... whenever. Sending them to school doesn't cut into it that much. So I chose instead to send them to public school, help out the classroom regularly, and maintain a learning environment at home too. Works for us, perfectly happy with it, and know a few parents who share that philosophy. I don't get paid for my time in the classroom; I do it for my kids,

Good for you. You have the freedom and the right to decide what you think is best for your children. If you like what you see, then keep doing it!

My perspective on it is, if people feel like they have to pull their kids out of public school to get their grades up, then maybe... just maybe... all those parents could instead pool their efforts and contribute to the school instead. Then maybe public schools would have the support they needed to be effective and we wouldn't have this mass movement to homeschool. Just a thought.

Time has proven that whatever is going on in PS is not working. Throwing more gvt. money at the schools isn't helping. The curricula chosen is not working, the philosophy of public education is not working. Paying more teachers to have more meetings to look for better textbooks doesn't work. (I was in on these meetings when I was a teacher. A total waste of a weekend, IMO.) Rather than waste my time, volunteering in a broken system, and having that system dictate the terms of how I should "help," I choose to use all my energy on something that is not broken, our homeschool.

BTW, have you ever heard the name of the beloved philosopher & founder of the idea of Public Education and Governmental/Social Child Rearing? His name is Jean-Jacques Rousseau. "Rousseau abandoned all of his children at a foundling hospital shortly after birth." (Quote taken off from Grade Saver website.) He lived with Thérèse Lavasseur, a seamstress with whom he had the five children which he abandoned. (Taken from a Biography report on NNDB website.) He was a man who loved to think and write many words, well respected by his peers, who did the same. But God and His ways was devoid in Rousseau's life and in his many writings. In PSs one can see the results of teaching facts, without biblical discernment, and in many cases with an anti-biblical slant.
 
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akmom

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I know the lifelong homeschool families very well. They are a big presence in my current church, and a larger church in the community I moved from. When my kids were younger, homeschool seemed like a serious option, and I got to discuss homeschool with these mothers often. I asked them about curricula, about managing all the different age groups in the household, about different resources they used. I was surprised, because only two of the families were actually familiar with any of the leading curricula. I already had my main curriculum chosen, and two side curricula for science. It's something I was very interested in. (Obviously I didn't go the homeschool route, but I feel I was more prepared in terms of those aspects than the families who had homeschooled for years already.) Most reported poor progress but were confident God intended them to do this so they were keeping at it. And all of them were very proud of it; there was definitely this assumption that I was asking because I was so impressed with their choice, when in reality I was more interested in the logistics, and less impressed after conversing about it. Random and seemingly unfounded suspicions about public school were also prevalent. My last church produced seven homeschool graduates the year I moved; one went into ministry, and the rest are still languishing in local department store jobs. Which is entirely "okay." I mean it's not like they're in prison. But when you have such a high turnout with a weak career path, I think there is something wrong with the education choices that were made.

Clearly you have experience with a different breed of homeschoolers, possibly the more common type. But I don't think the stereotypes exist for no reason at all. It can very well (and I believe very often) be a stifling experience for students.

I am aware of the trends in education as well, but I don't think it's the concept of public school that is the failure. (And the personal life of Rousseau is irrelevant.) There is an extraordinary link between parental involvement and student achievement. I don't think that means that homeschooling is the ultimate solution; I think it means parental involvement in the school system is important. My kids go to a public school that is doing very well, and has high parental involvement. It is a charter school, so the families who go there tend to be invested in their child's education, but it has all the same standards and requirements as a regular public school.

What I have seen in classrooms for the last three years is three tiers of students. There are a few who pick up the material quickly and get immersed in the assignments. Then there are most of the students who pick it up gradually and pretty much "get it" by the end of the session. Then there are the students who don't quite get it, drift off task until they are nudged, and end up not quite finished and not quite comprehending everything by the time that session is over. Sometimes they get discouraged, sometimes they just bide their time. A lot of times kids won't even ask a question, because they don't care, or they can't really articulate their problem. And I can tell you that is makes a huge difference to have a parent volunteer or two walking around checking things, noticing when there is "disconnect," and being able to sit there and keep them on task, figure out where they are tripping up, and ask the questions that prompt them to figure it out. It's invaluable. It's not something one teacher can accomplish without stalling the whole class. And I've really seen it make a difference lots of times. Sometimes I go around answering everyone's questions as they arise, and sometimes I end up spending the whole session with one or two, until they get it. If even 10% of parents were able to do this once a week, or a few times a month, it would really improve the whole public school experience.

When my daughter struggles, I just go over it with her at home. I know exactly what they're doing in class, so I don't have to wait until she brings it up, or there's a parent-teacher conference, or a report card. That's a huge benefit, and not just to my child. And she is also the recipient of other parents volunteering on other days. It's a good experience that goes a long way, and I don't think it goes as far when those same parents pull their kids out of school and homeschool instead. It takes a village. I just think some of those parents who aren't satisfied with their public school would do better to start helping out at that school first, instead of giving up on it.
 
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