History of Icons

[abacabb3]

Aba, stop kicking the tires and just join already! lol

I have already been to a Holy Liturgy. Catechism I presume is a long process, when my wife and I settle on a local church we will do this.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Aba and I talk through facebook. I can tell he's already made up his mind.

Ah ok.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I have already been to a Holy Liturgy. Catechism I presume is a long process, when my wife and I settle on a local church we will do this.

Depends on the priest but usually a pretty long process, yes.

Keep us posted!

 

[ArmyMatt]

I have already been to a Holy Liturgy. Catechism I presume is a long process, when my wife and I settle on a local church we will do this.

yep, and remember that the number one teacher IS the Liturgy. the experience of Christ in worship is what clarifies the catechism class, not the other way around.

 

[abacabb3]

I think you missed my question, so I'll ask again:

Do you consider using the fragrant oil that miraculously streams from this particular icon that I use for my avatar (the miraculous myrrh streaming icon of Iveron) for the purpose of anointing believers for potential healing of diseases to be "using the icon in a religious sense"? When a person who is anointed with the oil from the icon is healed of a serious, incurable disease, is it considered religious use if we give glory to God on account of it? Or is this idolatry?

I won't report you no matter what you reply, because I usually say whatever needs to be said regardless of forum rules. But I will say that the council that is the authoritative one is the one that God has approved by the Power of His Holy Spirit.

I just saw that icon today in Ballston Spa, NY. She is making her rounds from PA. Still smells like myrrh and I did not see any pinholes where they would shoot myrrh out of. I know it is disrespectful, but I would want to inspect something doing miracles a little more closely.

 

[~Anastasia~]

FWIW, it's a very persistent scent too.

I have cotton soaked in the myrrh. It's almost as fragrant as when I first received it, about 7 months ago.

There are several things I use essentials oils for, and have soaked cotton with them. They don't last even two months for the strongest ones - some don't last two weeks.

The myrrh is still strong enough that it also scents things that are in close proximity to it.

Very, VERY grateful to the person who sent it to me.

 

[prodromos]

FWIW, it's a very persistent scent too.

I have cotton soaked in the myrrh. It's almost as fragrant as when I first received it, about 7 months ago.

There are several things I use essentials oils for, and have soaked cotton with them. They don't last even two months for the strongest ones - some don't last two weeks.

The myrrh is still strong enough that it also scents things that are in close proximity to it.

Very, VERY grateful to the person who sent it to me.

We have myrrh from the relics of St Demetrios from over 10 years ago. Still smells as strong as ever.

 

[~Anastasia~]

We have myrrh from the relics of St Demetrios from over 10 years ago. Still smells as strong as ever.

That's wonderful to hear.

When I first received it, I thought it would dissipate over time. Everything else does. This is different though ...

Glory to God!

I'm thankful for that, because I still need it.

 

[ArmyMatt]

We have myrrh from the relics of St Demetrios from over 10 years ago. Still smells as strong as ever.

that's like the myrrh from the Taylor Icon in PA. you can track the myrrh by smell even from the outside when the doors of the Church are shut. people have smelled the myrrh from down the street.

 

[prodromos]

that's like the myrrh from the Taylor Icon in PA. you can track the myrrh by smell even from the outside when the doors of the Church are shut. people have smelled the myrrh from down the street.

When they open the larnax containing St Demetrios' relics, I've been told you can smell the myrrh from 2 city blocks away. Unfortunately I've not been there on the day. They never announce in advance when they are opening the larnax due to the crowds that would turn up.

 

[truefiction1]

I just saw that icon today in Ballston Spa, NY. She is making her rounds from PA. Still smells like myrrh and I did not see any pinholes where they would shoot myrrh out of. I know it is disrespectful, but I would want to inspect something doing miracles a little more closely.

After I saw the Hawaiian miraculous myrrh streaming icon of Iveron, her caretaker told of some scientists who wished to have some of the myrrh to perform chemical analysis upon. They were given a sample as requested. After a while the chemists returned, demanding to be told more about where the oil had come from, because its constitution was inexplicable from within the context of their scientific discipline: its molecular composition continuously changing and so rapidly that it was not the same compound from one test to the next in succession. It was nothing recognizable as being from this world. That is enough evidence for me, and not only that, it is the timing of my visitation by this particular icon that was personally miraculous for me: it was a gift of mercy from God. There is no doubt. This is the work of the Holy Spirit.

 

[ArmyMatt]

After I saw the Hawaiian miraculous myrrh streaming icon of Iveron, her caretaker told of some scientists who wished to have some of the myrrh to perform chemical analysis upon. They were given a sample as requested. After a while the chemists returned, demanding to be told more about where the oil had come from, because its constitution was inexplicable from within the context of their scientific discipline: its molecular composition continuously changing and so rapidly that it was not the same compound from one test to the next in succession. It was nothing recognizable as being from this world. That is enough evidence for me, and not only that, it is the timing of my visitation by this particular icon that was personally miraculous for me: it was a gift of mercy from God. There is no doubt. This is the work of the Holy Spirit.

that happened to the Taylor Icon as well I believe

 

[truefiction1]

that happened to the Taylor Icon as well I believe

The Kardiotissa? I haven't heard of that. Nectarios (tonsured reader at that time) told of this concerning the icon in his care, which is the Hawaiian Iveron icon of the Theotokos. I have the myrrh from the Kardiotissa Theotokos of Taylor, PA that was given to me in 2016. It's always in my shirt pocket whenever I go anywhere to serve. It's so easy for us (me especially) to lose sight of who and what we are, and to forget about the many miracles we've been blessed to have witnessed as gifts of God to help us fight against the sin of unbelief. I often remove the oil pouch from my pocket and experience the fragrance, calling to mind all of the evidence God has given me personally of Christ's Divinity and of the Truth of our Orthodox Faith.

Good to talk to you again Matt. My wife tells me that my long time friend (whom I met at St. Tikhon's when we were both students their over 30 years ago) is now back at St. Tikhon's training for the priesthood. Do you have a Father Deacon Stephen with you from Ohio? I'm too busy these days to keep track of such things.

 

[ArmyMatt]

yes, we do have good Dcn Steven here. he is a good guy, maybe at some point you could come and finish up here...?

 

[truefiction1]

yes, we do have good Dcn Steven here. he is a good guy, maybe at some point you could come and finish up here...?

As God wills. Thanks.

 

[abacabb3]

After I saw the Hawaiian miraculous myrrh streaming icon of Iveron, her caretaker told of some scientists who wished to have some of the myrrh to perform chemical analysis upon. They were given a sample as requested. After a while the chemists returned, demanding to be told more about where the oil had come from, because its constitution was inexplicable from within the context of their scientific discipline: its molecular composition continuously changing and so rapidly that it was not the same compound from one test to the next in succession. It was nothing recognizable as being from this world. That is enough evidence for me, and not only that, it is the timing of my visitation by this particular icon that was personally miraculous for me: it was a gift of mercy from God. There is no doubt. This is the work of the Holy Spirit.

This sounds like a great anecdote, but why didn't these scientists publish this? And, if the "man" got them down, why didn't they blog their results or youtube it?

 

[ArmyMatt]

This sounds like a great anecdote, but why didn't these scientists publish this? And, if the "man" got them down, why didn't they blog their results or youtube it?

who knows? the Holy Fire, the reversing of the River Jordan, the Cloud of Mt Thabor, etc are all public miracles that are seen by hundreds if not thousands every year, and you never see it in the news or any work from scientists. the world hates what it can't understand.

 

[truefiction1]

This sounds like a great anecdote, but why didn't these scientists publish this? And, if the "man" got them down, why didn't they blog their results or youtube it?

If those of faith witness the miracles and so often live as if they never did, then how do we expect those without faith to act? The veil of darkness overcomes them, and they return to their ways, unscathed by their encounter with God's miracles, just as those who saw the Lord restore a man's withered hand to fullness, but the only thing they saw was that the work of healing was done unlawfully on the Sabbath. We tell our iconoclastic accusers of the miracles of healing we've witnessed coming from the icons and their myrrh, and all they can see is the unlawful practice of idol worship, attributing any healing to the power of Beelzebub.

There is a point of no return in the hardening of our hearts by pride and conceit. We pray that we don't reach it, so that we never find ourselves blaspheming the Holy Spirit. The Miracles are gifts from God: the work of the Holy Spirit. But without faith, there is never any evidence of God or of His work. Equipped with the eyes of faith, we are able to see that miracles abound everywhere and in all things, even now.

 

[abacabb3]

who knows? the Holy Fire, the reversing of the River Jordan, the Cloud of Mt Thabor, etc are all public miracles that are seen by hundreds if not thousands every year, and you never see it in the news or any work from scientists. the world hates what it can't understand.

Can't the reversing of the river Jordan have a natural explanation?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Can't the reversing of the river Jordan have a natural explanation?

flowing upstream only when the Gospel is read over it? I don't think so