History of Icons

[truefiction1]

If Christ overcame the world so should His Church.

The Church does overcome, though not in the way that we, when looking through the eyes of the world, often expect. We overcome the world most especially when the world is persecuting and killing us. Our faith is in the Kingdom which is coming. Nothing will ever be perfect in this fallen world, and the tares are allowed to grow alongside of the wheat in the field of God's Church, as explained by Christ.

 

[ArmyMatt]

But won't people look at you weird?

as someone who is OCA, who has been to many various jurisdictions, I can say no. I have never felt unwelcome in an Orthodox parish or monastery.

 

[JM]

Beelzebub (Mark 3:22)? Thank you. I have no further questions.

Matthew 7:21-23

 

[JM]

I think is is admirable to love your brothers and sisters in Christ, and feel so attached to them, that like dearly departed loved ones you kiss their pictures/representations. Is this sort of love and closeness shared with living saints within the congregation? And, how do you on daily basis intercede for one another in your congregations and everyone's individual needs in prayer?

Seems more like idolatry. At some point we have to trust God and let them good...

 

[ArmyMatt]

Seems more like idolatry. At some point we have to trust God and let them good...

except that there is no actual worship going on, which makes it not idolatry.

 

[truefiction1]

Matthew 7:21-23

(Matthew 25:34-40)

 

[JM]

(Matthew 25:34-40)

Mark 7:8

 

[ArmyMatt]

simply saying it is a tradition of men does not make it one, especially when all historic evidence points to the contrary.

 

[JM]

simply saying it is a tradition of men does not make it one, especially when all historic evidence points to the contrary.

The same logic could be used against you...anyhow, I wish you well.

Peace.

 

[ArmyMatt]

The same logic could be used against you

only if you ignore history

.anyhow, I wish you well.

Peace.

right back at you

 

[prodromos]

...anyhow, I wish you well.

You have a funny way of showing it

 

[abacabb3]

Question; What do prayers on behalf of those that we do not know are saints do (i.e. departed loved ones)? And, what traditional and Biblical basis do you have for it?

Thanks!

 

[~Anastasia~]

Question; What do prayers on behalf of those that we do not know are saints do (i.e. departed loved ones)? And, what traditional and Biblical basis do you have for it?

Thanks!

Our prayers for those we love who have died?

We don't dogmatically state what they accomplish. There is no "x-number of prayers = x-time out of purgatory" or any such thing, of course.

We love them, so we pray for them. God is a loving God. We trust His mercy and leave it in His hands without expectation.

There are several possible answers, of what God MAY do. But He may do something else. It's not our place to dictate, certainly. We do generally pray for their sins to be forgiven and for them to be given rest.

 

[abacabb3]

So, people do it hopeful it might do something good, but because the Bible and tradition is not specific as to what no one makes any other claim? I find it to be an interesting devotion, to do something not knowing specifically what it is accomplishing simply because it is an act of love towards someone.

 

[~Anastasia~]

So, people do it hopeful it might do something good, but because the Bible and tradition is not specific as to what no one makes any other claim? I find it to be an interesting devotion, to do something not knowing specifically what it is accomplishing simply because it is an act of love towards someone.

There are some small-t traditions that might suggest a possible answer, but beyond that, and the fact that we do it (that IS Tradition) I'm not sure what to say.

Others would probably know more.

But certainly having and expressing love for one another pleases God. And there is always the point that He knows all prayers from outside the constraints of time.

 

[ArmyMatt]

What do prayers on behalf of those that we do not know are saints do (i.e. departed loved ones)?

whatever God wills our prayers to do, this is why our prayer for them is for His mercy.

And, what traditional and Biblical basis do you have for it?

2 Timothy 1:16-18. Onesiphorus at the time Paul wrote the epistle had died, and he is doing what we do, asking for God to have mercy on him on Judgment Day.

plus there is 2 Maccabees 12:38-46 where Judas Maccabeus prays for the dead soldiers.

 

[JM]

Question; What do prayers on behalf of those that we do not know are saints do (i.e. departed loved ones)? And, what traditional and Biblical basis do you have for it?

Thanks!

Aba, stop kicking the tires and just join already! lol

 

[JM]

You have a funny way of showing it

I honestly could care less about 'winning' an argument. I don't want to hurt anyone, or their feelings (which is big with babyboomers and millennials).

We just disagree. If you were sitting across from me I'd invite you to dinner!

 

[~Anastasia~]

Aba, stop kicking the tires and just join already! lol

Lol, we ENCOURAGE tire-kicking. Please, ask all your questions and get serious doubts out of the way before being received into the Orthodox Church. It should not be a hasty or ill-considered step.

Some of these things are not easy to work though.

Questioning is good for one's faith, ultimately. When the answers finally come and one is fully satisfied, and deeply rooted in Truth they are confident of, they are not easily shaken.

Glory to God!

 

[JM]

Aba and I talk through facebook. I can tell he's already made up his mind.