Hillary would have abolished the 2nd Amendent.

[dogs4thewin]

While I'm very pro-gun...that's the cherry-picking logic that both sides seem to use.

No matter what one's stance is, you can find a state that fits your narrative.

For example, if you want to prove that high gun ownership leads to higher murder rates: Louisiana
If you want to prove that high gun ownership reduces violent crime: Wyoming
If you want to prove that strict gun control works: Hawaii
If you want to prove that you don't need strict controls: Vermont


It's a topic that's very easy to cherry pick, however, when you actually just boil it down to stats, the result (which is inconvenient for both sides) is that there is no correlation between gun ownership rates and homicide rates, and no correlation between gun control strictness and homicide rates.

Poverty and education statistics have a higher degree of correlation with gun crime stats.

Yeah poverty DOES play a major role. Maybe because people who are poor are more likely to grow up in rough areas and more likely to turn to crime to support themselves.

 

[jardiniere]

Hey, we only do that on weekends. We're not completely uncivilized.

We likely disagree on just about everything, Beefcake, but I would have a beer with you, because you come across as a frustrated, sincere, funny person.

 

[lasthero]

I am fairly certain that there are major cities that have STRICT gun control yet high crime.

And there are major cities with lax gun control and high crime. And major cities with high gun control and low crime.

Speaks against the gun control levels being a big factor.[/QUOTE]

 

[Hank77]

And she could've. Trump was right.

Again, no one supposed she would do it on her own. IF Hillary Clinton was elected as president, if we took her words truthfully, she would do her best to end the 2nd Amendment. She claimed it herself. She threatened it. She said she would consider an Australian-like system to confiscate. Was she lying then? I mean, you guys are just focusing on Trump's words and looking to discredit him, when they are HER WORDS!

Why you guys can't be fair and intellectually honest, I have no clue.

Because Trump is the President and he lied again, hopefully the people of this country are educated enough to know he was lying.
Isn't this what he said just a couple of days ago.....

"If Crooked Hillary got elected, you would not have a 2nd Amendment, believe me."
-Donald Trump, September 22nd, 2017 at an Alabama rally.

That statement is false. We would have the 2nd Amendment. Clinton could not have changed the Constitution or have gotten 75% of 50 states to agree to do it.

If Trump wasn't out and out lying then he is uneducated and ignorant of how our government works.

So you choose, was he lying? He doesn't understand how ratifying the Constitution works?

 

[Hank77]

Hillary couldn't do this with a liberal-sided Supreme Court and the House and Senate on her side? That's what I stated in my post. They can create laws. Why would she say she would do something she knew she couldn't do then? Because she's the idiot? Why is Trump and his supporters the idiots for believing she would do something she said she would do?

Here are some of the things she said. I didn't pick this because it rates Trump's statement during the campaign but because it looks at statements that she made and Trump's statement that is close to what he said the other day.
Keep in mind that I am a gun owner and not a Clinton supporter or a Trump supporter.
Trump adds adverb to still False claim about Clinton & guns

 

[miamited]

Hillary couldn't do this with a liberal-sided Supreme Court and the House and Senate on her side? That's what I stated in my post. They can create laws. Why would she say she would do something she knew she couldn't do then? Because she's the idiot? Why is Trump and his supporters the idiots for believing she would do something she said she would do?

Hi saucy,

Right, I did overlook the legislature side of your equation. However, liberal as I may or may not be, I happen to agree with her that we aren't looking at the second amendment clause in the way that our forefathers expected it to be used. I happen to have a fairly strong feeling about our gun laws and have done some fairly extensive research on the subject of various nations and their gun laws. We have the most lax of any of the settled nations and we enjoy the highest death rate by firearm far and above the next closest nation because of it.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

 

[Saucy]

I understand and respect your decision and feelings on this. I'm just strongly disagreeing with the first handful of posts that seem to call Trump and his supporters idiots for "believing a conspiracy theory" when it was a very strong point SHE made during her campaign.

Again, no one thinks she meant day one she would draft a bill on her own. But would she try? She said she would. She even said she would go around Congress if she had to.

Why that makes Trump a liar, but not Hillary, I dont know.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I understand and respect your decision and feelings on this. I'm just strongly disagreeing with the first handful of posts that seem to call Trump and his supporters idiots for "believing a conspiracy theory" when it was a very strong point SHE made during her campaign.

"idiots" does seem a strong term -- "gullible" is more apt.

And I would very much like to see her "abolish the Second Amendment" point. If it was so strong, it should be easy to find.

Again, no one thinks she meant day one she would draft a bill on her own. But would she try? She said she would. She even said she would go around Congress if she had to.

Source, please?

 

[Saucy]

"idiots" does seem a strong term -- "gullible" is more apt.

And I would very much like to see her "abolish the Second Amendment" point. If it was so strong, it should be easy to find.



Source, please?

I posted two sources on the first page of this thread.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I posted two sources on the first page of this thread.

Sources where she actually does want to abolish the Second Amendment, or opinion pieces which come to that conclusion as a matter of... opinion?

There' no question that Clinton wanted tighter gun restrictions -- all libs do. But to go from that to "You won't have a second amendment anymore" is a leap of logic that only one of Donald's spporters would be willing to make.

 

[Non sequitur]

I posted two sources on the first page of this thread.

Can't find anything in those sources that show Clinton saying she wanted to get rid of the 2nd Amendment.

 

[The Brown Brink]

"If Crooked Hillary got elected, you would not have a 2nd Amendment, believe me."
-Donald Trump, September 22nd, 2017 at an Alabama rally.

It seems an odd thing to rally on seeing as I was just told yesterday that Donald never talks about the election or his opponent anymore.

Do you believe him that Hillary would have abolished the 2nd Amendment?

We really have no way of knowing, but what do you believe?

A President can influence the REPEAL of an amendment.
But that's all.
The Donald is ignorant.

Only Congress can get rid of the 2nd Amendment.
That's you and me.

And from what I've read about this issue, H. Clinton only ever speaks about common-sense measures, like keeping guns away from children and assault weapons away from civilians.

Why do you want to ignore common-sense measures?

What's driving you?

 

[Saucy]

Sources where she actually does want to abolish the Second Amendment, or opinion pieces which come to that conclusion as a matter of... opinion?

There' no question that Clinton wanted tighter gun restrictions -- all libs do. But to go from that to "You won't have a second amendment anymore" is a leap of logic that only one of Donald's spporters would be willing to make.

Well, I can make the same claim about people trying to push the Russia collusion angle. There's nothing there, but it's a leap only democrats and anti-Trumpers make.

 

[The Brown Brink]

"If Crooked Hillary got elected, you would not have a 2nd Amendment, believe me."
-Donald Trump, September 22nd, 2017 at an Alabama rally.

It seems an odd thing to rally on seeing as I was just told yesterday that Donald never talks about the election or his opponent anymore.

Do you believe him that Hillary would have abolished the 2nd Amendment?

We really have no way of knowing, but what do you believe?

Whoops!
I hit the wrong button in my previous reply...
Please excuse me.

 

[The Brown Brink]

I really would like to know though...

Why do we ignore common sense measures when it comes to guns...

Why can't we use our common sense AND maintain our right to bear arms?

I don't get it.

 

[Saucy]

I really would like to know though...

Why do we ignore common sense measures when it comes to guns...

Why can't we use our common sense AND maintain our right to bear arms?

I don't get it.

There's no such thing as 'common sense measures'. You can't stop killings from happening. Look at Chicago. Toughest gun laws in the country, worst city for shootings. Gun free zones do nothing to stop someone from going in and do what they do.

 

[381465]

We need to focus resources on illegal gun owners. They account for the overwhelming majority of crimes involving firearms.
Maximum manditory sentencing for fist time offenders.

I do not remember a single arrest of someone who used a legally owned firearm. I'm sure it has happened, but I personally don't recall one.

 

[lasthero]

Well, I can make the same claim about people trying to push the Russia collusion angle. There's nothing there, but it's a leap only democrats and anti-Trumpers make.

 

[lasthero]

Toughest gun laws in the country, worst city for shootings.

Not exactly. Chicago has a high number, but it's a big city with a high population. In terms of rates, you're actually more likely to get shot in several cities - Memphis, New Orleans, and Baltimore among them.

 

[381465]

Not exactly. Chicago has a high number, but it's a big city with a high population. In terms of rates, you're actually more likely to get shot in several cities - Memphis, New Orleans, and Baltimore among them.

Amen.

I do some work in Baltimore and less frequently in other cities.
Right now I'd take my chances in Chicago, NY or Philadelphia over Baltimore.