Hi/Bye

[Nihilist Virus]

Thanks. You aren't the first person born into Christianity who, through a sincere desire to know more, sat down and actually read the Bible only to be stunned by what it actually says. I agree.

Thank you for your honesty.

I noticed that you have been equally disappointed by the lack of Christ like love on these forums from those who you have interacted with. I'm curious where your concept of "Christ like love" comes from as your foundation for comparison?

Love your enemy.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

So essentially you want to help yourself to the last word and then declare the topic is over even when it's my thread, not to mention the fact that the thread has already been moved to "Exploring Christianity" which necessarily makes this "tangent" relevant to the forum at large.

If you think the resurrection is more plausible than alien abductions, whether in general or in the context of a particular method of analysis, then you've done nothing but make that assertion.

I said in the OP that this thread is not about arguing, but you're the one who came at me claiming I dodged questions and presented a poor argument. Now please back it up or eat your words.

I did back it up. You never did.

Start a new thread and I will do so again if need be. Just let me know where you posted it.
I didn't bring it up, you asked me directly about when you didn't answer my questions. I merely pointed out that you also sometimes ignore people and tend toward the confrontational in your posts.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

I did back it up. You never did.

Start a new thread and I will do so again if need be. Just let me know where you posted it.
I didn't bring it up, you asked me directly about when you didn't answer my questions. I merely pointed out that you also sometimes ignore people and tend toward the confrontational in your posts.

Start a new thread? What's wrong with this one?

You made a claim and now you retreat when asked to back it up.

I didn't ignore your question in the past but you're giving me good reason to ignore you in the future.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

Start a new thread? What's wrong with this one?

You made a claim and now you retreat when asked to back it up.

No, you tend to not follow my argument. A new thread with a well set out premise would be easier, instead of having each post misconstrued and former ones ignored, likely because they get lost in other comments.

I shall look for my former comments and repost them then when I have the time, in my own new thread then. I shall message you the link when I have done this. Probably at some point next week or the week thereafter as internet posting isn't a primary concern of mine.

EDIT: As it seems NV added to his previous post.

I didn't ignore your question in the past but you're giving me good reason to ignore you in the future.

I explicitly asked for your method, you never gave a method, so I consider this to be not answering a question, by the way. You cannot make statements and not back them up, then demand I back up my own.

Neither you nor I am under obligation to answer the other. You may ignore me if you so wish, after all.

 

[AV1611VET]

Nihilist Virus, just stay.

 

[paul becke]

I stopped reading after the second paragraph because you began to turn it into a debate. If you think theism better accounts for the universe, feel free to respond to my thread, "The Universe with no need of God" in the apologetics forum.

No. I've said my piece. I'm no more interested in exchanges than you claimed to be originally. Your world-view seems as firmly-held as mine. You won't learn about Christianity until you learn humility, whatever you fancy you believed in the past ; humility not being essentially a matter of modesty, but of knowing your limitations.
Bye.

PS: See how much love you find on an atheist forum. Oh, they're not held to such a high standard. For a nihilist you have nave, almost childlike expectations of others ? (That's a fair comment, Mods - technically quite correct).

 

[Lazarus Short]

Perhaps you have been flagged as a universalist or something?

Should that not have read "flogged"? Yeah, I'm a Universalist (or something).

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

So faith is a good thing? Does it then follow that faith in Islam is good? No? But how do you know which faith is the right faith? Oh right, you know by faith which faith is the right faith.

Did the above never occurr to you over those 36 years? Also, what makes you qualified to tell me who or what I was? How do you know anything about me? You just know it by faith?

See you can't even discern good from evil otherwise your would stop fighting against God and listen to His conviction in your heart. BTW there is not a person that doesn't have some kind of faith in something including you. e.g. you have faith in the chairs you sit on that they won't collapse......see how easy it is to see through your foolish argument?

 

[aiki]

This is technically my introduction because I never made a thread here. But really, instead of a "hello", I'm coming here asking if there is a reason to stay.

Depends upon what you're looking for, don't you think?

I was born into a Christian home and indoctrinated into the faith my whole childhood. At 18 I backslid, then I got stronger in my faith and dedicated myself to reading the whole Bible. This utterly obliterated my faith.

I've read the whole Bible and had a very different result. I became stronger in my faith, not weaker. What do you suppose the difference is between you and me?

I'm not making this post to open up a dialogue on that issue. I've already turned over every leaf on the apologetics forum and have gotten very few answers. So if you are looking to argue, you can respond to my arguments there. But I doubt I'll respond because, as stated above, I'm not convinced that I have a good reason to stay on these forums and if nothing enlightening happens on this thread then I'm done here (and my expectations are that this thread will probably be taken down and action taken against my account).

Well, if you're determined to accept only those answers that establish what you already think, then I don't suppose there is anything anyone might say to change your mind. I find the apologetic answers I have discovered as I've looked at natural theology especially to be very powerful and persuasive. If the arguments and evidence for the Christian worldview were as seriously flawed and unconvincing as you seem to think, wouldn't everybody be just as dissuaded as you? But, no, there are very intelligent, very thoughtful people, people who were not born into a Christian home, people who were determined to prove the faith totally in error who have come to accept it as the truth. Why them and not you?

The vast majority of attempts at answering my questions have been abysmal failures, which wasn't surprising, but what surprised me was the amount of vitriol and hate Christians have spewed at me.

You reap what you sow. And, from the very little interaction we've had, you've demonstrated an extreme sensitivity to incisive criticism. In any case, the Christian faith doesn't stand or fall on the basis of whether or not you're convinced by the arguments and evidence it has to offer. It has only to meet the objective criteria of logic, and objective principles of reason, and objective standards for evidence to succeed in its claims. It does all these things quite well. It seems to me, then, that your problems with Christianity aren't really with the arguments but with something within yourself.

I have no desire to be a jerk, but even if I did I should not receive rude comments back from a Christian. Am I wrong in thinking that Christians are held to a higher standard than I am?

That's a convenient maneuver to escape criticism and avoid getting as good as you're giving. You reap what you sow - even on a Christian forum.

In my time here I've seen hatred, mockery, and willful ignorance. What I haven't seen is love or intelligent discourse. Are atheists treated that way because we're not wanted here?

No. In my experience, it is the atheists on this website who employ mockery, willful ignorance and general obnoxiousness. Certainly, I have never encountered one I would call in the least loving. It should be no surprise, then, that when this is the case, atheists get a rough ride. Nobody likes to be ridiculed, or derided, or dismissed - not even Christians.

Selah.

 

[Blade]

This is technically my introduction because I never made a thread here. But really, instead of a "hello", I'm coming here asking if there is a reason to stay.

I was born into a Christian home and indoctrinated into the faith my whole childhood. At 18 I backslid, then I got stronger in my faith and dedicated myself to reading the whole Bible. This utterly obliterated my faith.

I'm not making this post to open up a dialogue on that issue. I've already turned over every leaf on the apologetics forum and have gotten very few answers. So if you are looking to argue, you can respond to my arguments there. But I doubt I'll respond because, as stated above, I'm not convinced that I have a good reason to stay on these forums and if nothing enlightening happens on this thread then I'm done here (and my expectations are that this thread will probably be taken down and action taken against my account).

The vast majority of attempts at answering my questions have been abysmal failures, which wasn't surprising, but what surprised me was the amount of vitriol and hate Christians have spewed at me. I've participated in this, sometimes instigating and sometimes rightfully responding to unprovoked attacks, and I simply do not see the love of Christ anywhere on these forums. I have no desire to be a jerk, but even if I did I should not receive rude comments back from a Christian. Am I wrong in thinking that Christians are held to a higher standard than I am?

In my time here I've seen hatred, mockery, and willful ignorance. What I haven't seen is love or intelligent discourse. Are atheists treated that way because we're not wanted here?

Hmm stay or go matters not to me. Not trying to sound ..haha sound....come across cold? This is not the place you should asking at. Well the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob.. that sent His only son.. is REAL! HE is not a man nor does He think like one. He does not play games. Seek ask pray to any so called GOD or to none.. only ONE will ever answer. See the key is.. like your asking here.. ask HIM. Have to mean it with your heart. You are free to think say believe anything and HE? Well He will do nothing to force you one way or the other. There is none like Him. Keep asking people and all you get is what they personally believe.

Talk to HIM ask HIM. I have nothing to gain or lose here. Yet I have seen wonders and not boasting.. for I sin more then most. Again .. He is not a man nor thinks like one. He said.. if you hear my words and dont keep them.. I will not judge you..I came to save you. Yes I know what this person says what that person says. I know the talks about the OT and killings blah blah blah. Take it to the ONE that matters. Yeshua (JESUS) is REAL! Its why you are here asking. He cant FORCE YOU! You have to say something.. talk to HIM! HE..is not like a man.. He does not judge you condemn you. He crys.. well it hurts Him so much that the world thats ALL of us dont know how much HE LOVES US! We run to each other and there is wisdom there yet some day you have to pay the price your self. You want to know this GOD? Then simply ask Him and KNOW that He hears you and YES He will answer you! Thats all I got. Something WONDERFUL is about to happen!

For any Christian that may have hurt you.. I ask you to forgive me. He LOVES YOU. Yes just they way you are.. HE is SO REAL that any problem you have HE WILL FIX IT! I dont care what happen to so and so.. what is written? THATS What He will do. Jesus is real. More real then your bother your mother and father your sister or that very close best friend. Yes more real then that. I will not speak things that I dont know. I only tell you want I know. Not here to debate or argue. Ask HIM.. hold on! If you will just be like a child.. read and be like a child.. and simply BELIEVE! Dont think.. just BELIEVE! HE is so real. We are FREE...answers allot right there. Thanks.. for letting me chat..

 

[Deadworm]

This is technically my introduction because I never made a thread here. But really, instead of a "hello", I'm coming here asking if there is a reason to stay.

I was born into a Christian home and indoctrinated into the faith my whole childhood. At 18 I backslid, then I got stronger in my faith and dedicated myself to reading the whole Bible. This utterly obliterated my faith.

I'm not making this post to open up a dialogue on that issue. I've already turned over every leaf on the apologetics forum and have gotten very few answers. So if you are looking to argue, you can respond to my arguments there. But I doubt I'll respond because, as stated above, I'm not convinced that I have a good reason to stay on these forums and if nothing enlightening happens on this thread then I'm done here (and my expectations are that this thread will probably be taken down and action taken against my account).

The vast majority of attempts at answering my questions have been abysmal failures, which wasn't surprising, but what surprised me was the amount of vitriol and hate Christians have spewed at me. I've participated in this, sometimes instigating and sometimes rightfully responding to unprovoked attacks, and I simply do not see the love of Christ anywhere on these forums. I have no desire to be a jerk, but even if I did I should not receive rude comments back from a Christian. Am I wrong in thinking that Christians are held to a higher standard than I am?

In my time here I've seen hatred, mockery, and willful ignorance. What I haven't seen is love or intelligent discourse. Are atheists treated that way because we're not wanted here?

 

[Deadworm]

Nihilist,

I just joined the site. I am a retired United Methodist minister and, prior to that, was a theology professor for 12 years. As a doctoral student, I was a Teaching Fellow at Harvard. Why not give me a chance to engage your questions? We can do this either in private communications or in a new thread. A suggestion: Why not start a thread in Apologetics entitled, "Burning Questions," and then list all of yours, including all your doubts and barriers to faith? If you don't find our critical engagement productive or if you just don't like my attitude, then just discontinue it.

 

[Mediaeval]

Perhaps you have been flagged as a universalist or something?

Best NV moment: ironing out the royal succession of Judah after the normal succession was disrupted.

You can't swing a cat o' nine tails on the internet without hitting a dozen unappeased atheists, but to find an agnostic who irons out Bible difficulties is a rare treat.

 

[AV1611VET]

I just joined the site.

Welcome to CF!

 

[orangeness365]

I think you should consider reading books about Christian apologetics from people that have done more research on Christianity than the average person including myself.

 

[rmacfarland]

This is technically my introduction because I never made a thread here. But really, instead of a "hello", I'm coming here asking if there is a reason to stay.

I was born into a Christian home and indoctrinated into the faith my whole childhood. At 18 I backslid, then I got stronger in my faith and dedicated myself to reading the whole Bible. This utterly obliterated my faith.

I'm not making this post to open up a dialogue on that issue. I've already turned over every leaf on the apologetics forum and have gotten very few answers. So if you are looking to argue, you can respond to my arguments there. But I doubt I'll respond because, as stated above, I'm not convinced that I have a good reason to stay on these forums and if nothing enlightening happens on this thread then I'm done here (and my expectations are that this thread will probably be taken down and action taken against my account).

The vast majority of attempts at answering my questions have been abysmal failures, which wasn't surprising, but what surprised me was the amount of vitriol and hate Christians have spewed at me. I've participated in this, sometimes instigating and sometimes rightfully responding to unprovoked attacks, and I simply do not see the love of Christ anywhere on these forums. I have no desire to be a jerk, but even if I did I should not receive rude comments back from a Christian. Am I wrong in thinking that Christians are held to a higher standard than I am?

In my time here I've seen hatred, mockery, and willful ignorance. What I haven't seen is love or intelligent discourse. Are atheists treated that way because we're not wanted here?

I don't know if you are still reading here, but I have a suggestion. You are basically inviting grumpy christians to take a shot at you with your negative approach. Yes, there are (-) so-callef christisns. Even I am often guilty. But the 'problem' here...is that you are demanding answers here from other people with their own problems....but you need to take these things STRAIGHT to Jesus Christ. That is the ONLY place you are going to get your answers. And YES...you do have the 'right' and priveledge to go to Him. He gave His life as a guarantee that you can. Even if you feel that you are the least deserving of all people....He is waiting for you to come. You can believe me or not. I am just a sinner who did not deserve His Mercy. If He felt it was worth helping a man like me...He will certainly help you.

 

[Cappadocious]

This is technically my introduction because I never made a thread here. But really, instead of a "hello", I'm coming here asking if there is a reason to stay.

I was born into a Christian home and indoctrinated into the faith my whole childhood. At 18 I backslid, then I got stronger in my faith and dedicated myself to reading the whole Bible. This utterly obliterated my faith.

I'm not making this post to open up a dialogue on that issue. I've already turned over every leaf on the apologetics forum and have gotten very few answers. So if you are looking to argue, you can respond to my arguments there. But I doubt I'll respond because, as stated above, I'm not convinced that I have a good reason to stay on these forums and if nothing enlightening happens on this thread then I'm done here (and my expectations are that this thread will probably be taken down and action taken against my account).

The vast majority of attempts at answering my questions have been abysmal failures, which wasn't surprising, but what surprised me was the amount of vitriol and hate Christians have spewed at me. I've participated in this, sometimes instigating and sometimes rightfully responding to unprovoked attacks, and I simply do not see the love of Christ anywhere on these forums. I have no desire to be a jerk, but even if I did I should not receive rude comments back from a Christian. Am I wrong in thinking that Christians are held to a higher standard than I am?

In my time here I've seen hatred, mockery, and willful ignorance. What I haven't seen is love or intelligent discourse. Are atheists treated that way because we're not wanted here?

Perhaps you should try a Christian forum that isn't an Evangelical Christian forum. Have you been to such a forum? Have you considered non-Evangelical Christianity?

 

[Kenny'sID]

I have no desire to be a jerk, but even if I did I should not receive rude comments back from a Christian.

In real life that's a very self centered and unreasonable expectation, and I know you say you don't and may even consider this hateful, but you kind of are that, whether you have the desire or not.. Christian or not, life is a two way street.

I appreciate that you want me to stay but if no one puts forth a respectable effort to answer my questions then I have no reason to be here.

You have to play a role in that too. I could be wrong but you seem to be determined to shut down everything. I mean that's nothing new for the Atheist but still, if you are open to nothing, then nothing gets in.

I want you to stay too, but attitude begets attitude, those are just the facts. You require others to have a thick skin in order to be around you, you'll have to grow one yourself. If you have the desire to know God, you'll keep at it and not essentially run yourself off. I've no doubt you've gotten some hateful responses, but there is a point there where just maybe we as Christians are put together to lose patience at some point, in order to drive home points that need making.

What exactly are you looking for? I mean are you in the "need proof God even exists" stage? God's just a meany stage? All that and then some? What turns you off about the whole thing? If it's merely hateful Christians, again...two way street/Golden rule would be a good start there.

And lastly, the person with the attitude generally has too much of an attitude to see they have one at all...been there myself and still go there on occasion, maybe even often so, isn't just you, but doesn't get us very far nonetheless.

My best advise...never give up looking for this. Yell/scream, pitch a fit with God/others whatever it takes. If you knock and it isn't opened unto you...knock louder.

 

[Oafman]

In my time here I've seen hatred, mockery, and willful ignorance. What I haven't seen is love or intelligent discourse. Are atheists treated that way because we're not wanted here?

This isn't a fair characterisation of CF. There are a whole range of people here, with a whole range of views and attitudes. In my experience, the number of people who harbour a genuine dislike of unbelievers is pretty low. They are here, and sometimes vocal, but there's only a handful of them.

 

[Si_monfaith]

This is technically my introduction because I never made a thread here. But really, instead of a "hello", I'm coming here asking if there is a reason to stay.

I was born into a Christian home and indoctrinated into the faith my whole childhood. At 18 I backslid, then I got stronger in my faith and dedicated myself to reading the whole Bible. This utterly obliterated my faith.

I'm not making this post to open up a dialogue on that issue. I've already turned over every leaf on the apologetics forum and have gotten very few answers. So if you are looking to argue, you can respond to my arguments there. But I doubt I'll respond because, as stated above, I'm not convinced that I have a good reason to stay on these forums and if nothing enlightening happens on this thread then I'm done here (and my expectations are that this thread will probably be taken down and action taken against my account).

The vast majority of attempts at answering my questions have been abysmal failures, which wasn't surprising, but what surprised me was the amount of vitriol and hate Christians have spewed at me. I've participated in this, sometimes instigating and sometimes rightfully responding to unprovoked attacks, and I simply do not see the love of Christ anywhere on these forums. I have no desire to be a jerk, but even if I did I should not receive rude comments back from a Christian. Am I wrong in thinking that Christians are held to a higher standard than I am?

In my time here I've seen hatred, mockery, and willful ignorance. What I haven't seen is love or intelligent discourse. Are atheists treated that way because we're not wanted here?

Most christians know about moral law & not about Jesus' love on cross & what He has done for mankind.
So please visit wof forum. That's the best place for love of Christ.