Hi/Bye

[Commander Xenophon]

Awesome!

I'm totally on board!

The only point I would add is that when someone doesn't get what I'm saying, I pray and ask God to tell me how to explain it better/differently.

I believe it is the job of the communicator to find a way to be understood, rather than blame the listener for not getting it.

God Bless you!

I agree entirely. You raise two very valid and important points. I do think the listener though should try to keep listening if they can, to give us a chance.

God bless you too! Its still Easter season for us Orthodox, so also, Christos Anesti!

 

[Nihilist Virus]

You answered my post, just not my question. You said Alien Abductions are more probable than the Resurrection and asked for a scientifically valid method showing the opposite, which I gave. I then repeatedly asked for a method that supported your position, which you just ignored and tried to undermine the application of the Historical Critical approach that I had applied. It was tangential to the topic of the thread though, so I can't remember where it was.

People aren't obligated to answer all posts or questions directed at you though, so that fine. If someone chooses not to answer your criticism of their position, that is their right and vice versa.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

I agree with you that we should be held to a higher standard. There have been some mean-spirited atheist members however who have been consistently verbally abusive of polite Christians, and this I think has driven some people to react in an inappropriately angry and hostile manner to legitimate questions posed by other atheists.

I hope NV stays and would love to work @Truthfrees with you to help answer some of his more complicated questions; I have some formal theological training as I am a cantor in the Orthodox Church, and I think together we might be able to provide answers. I think we also ought to try and loop @Der Alter into this because he is in my opinion the most knowledgeable Biblical apologost on the website that Inknow personally (I am sure there are others, but @Der Alter is a close friend and I have found his support to be amazing). @Aelred of Rievaulx and also @ViaCrucis are extremely talented theologians. It might be good if the five of us got together with @NihilistVirus in a conversation to talk things through with him; we would each come from different denominations (Calvinist Baptist, Word of Faith, Catholic, Lutheran and Orthodox) and in this way, we could also each offer the perspectives of our denomination. Because where @Nihilist Virus might find one denomination's view to not answer his question satisfactorily, the view of another might shed light on it, whereas, if we look at the question from all five, we can review with him the totality of Christian thought on the issue,

In my experience, @Nihilist Virus, you have not always understood the answers you were provided with by some members, and in some cases put them on ignore, thinking they were trolling you. Some may have been, but I think many were not; there actually are some paradoxes in the Christian faith, some questions where we cannot provide a definite answer, but these also do exist in science, for example, consider the limitations imposed by the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

One example of a subject matter where I have seen you become very unsatisfied with the answers provided, but where I don't think we can neccessarily provide any fully intellectually satisfactory answer, is on some of your questions relating to the relationship between God, the devil, and the Christian scriptures and Christiam faith. This is an extremely complicated area and it involves several branches of theology as well as one of the classic philosophical conundrums known as the Theodicy Problem, which amounts to, why does God allow suffering?

Gnostic Christianity had a very easy answer; they said this world was made by an evil demiurge and we had to escape to a purely spiritual realm with the helpmof the good God, who sent Jesus as a messenger to provide saving knowledge on how to escape the prison of matter. In mainstream Christianity as defined by the Statement of Faith on this website, the answer is much more complicated.

There are several other issues like this one where we may not have an answer that you find agreeable; one reason why I would like to team up woth TruthFrees, if she is willing, and some of the other leading apologists, is because I think if we pool our resources from different denominational traditions we might be able to provide an answer that works for you.

If there are paradoxes and unanswerable questions, isn't it trolling if one refuses to admit that and instead provides a terrible answer that cannot withstand casual scrutiny?

 

[Nihilist Virus]

I'm sad to see this, friend.

I've walked into some matters where I was knocked down and people were rude, but that's often the case with the Internet. It's not the forum itself; it's certain people on their keyboards who simply have nothing good to say, think they're always right because they know this or that, and don't mind telling others off.

I look for interesting things to talk about and started a blog. Sometimes you have to make your own niche in a big place like this and tell the people who are nice to you how much you appreciate them. Smile and pray for the rest of them. And keep going! Don't get stuck in a thread where you feel you're right and you keep getting shot down -- just say, "Well, that's how I feel, but thanks for your input" and go away before it gets hairy and you get hurt.

I'm very sensitive, and I always remember that I'm in charge here. I have the ultimate tool for a forum and people who try to dig at me or generate a negative response.

It's called the power button. Then you step away, go do something else, pray about it, come back, and go find something nice to talk about. By then the ones who were picking on you have signed off or they're off to another topic and leaving you alone.

Please give that a try, and don't leave us. Hang in here with me, okay? I don't bite.

All good things
Emmy

I appreciate that you want me to stay but if no one puts forth a respectable effort to answer my questions then I have no reason to be here.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Hi and please don't go..
Not all of us Christians are like those you describe from Apologetics.
Quite a few of us are more than willing to have a meaningful conversation/debate with you!

I appreciate that you want me to stay but if no one puts forth a respectable effort to answer my questions then I have no reason to be here.

 

[SalvationSoldier1072]

This is technically my introduction because I never made a thread here. But really, instead of a "hello", I'm coming here asking if there is a reason to stay.

I was born into a Christian home and indoctrinated into the faith my whole childhood. At 18 I backslid, then I got stronger in my faith and dedicated myself to reading the whole Bible. This utterly obliterated my faith.

I'm not making this post to open up a dialogue on that issue. I've already turned over every leaf on the apologetics forum and have gotten very few answers. So if you are looking to argue, you can respond to my arguments there. But I doubt I'll respond because, as stated above, I'm not convinced that I have a good reason to stay on these forums and if nothing enlightening happens on this thread then I'm done here (and my expectations are that this thread will probably be taken down and action taken against my account).

The vast majority of attempts at answering my questions have been abysmal failures, which wasn't surprising, but what surprised me was the amount of vitriol and hate Christians have spewed at me. I've participated in this, sometimes i10 yearsnstigating and sometimes rightfully responding to unprovoked attacks, and I simply do not see the love of Christ anywhere on these forums. I have no desire to be a jerk, but even if I did I should not receive rude comments back from a Christian. Am I wrong in thinking that Christians are held to a higher standard than I am?

 

[SalvationSoldier1072]

I am new here but I am truly sorry you have had such a bad experience. The God thing about the body of Christ is it is made up of people. Over the past 12 years I have also come to learn that the bad thing about the body of Christ is it is made up of people. I did not grow up in church so I had an idea about how Christians were supposed to behave. I thought that we they were all moral and had the redeemer of Mary Poppins. Imagine my surprise when I became a Christian at 23years old and realized that the church was as full of broken, hurt, and sometimes judgmental people. You know what though I could understand. If we did not have those tendencies we would not have needed grace. Sometimes we are guilty of shooting our wounded instead of uplifting them, and sometimes we judge peoples actions and expect them to judge our intentions. I am not sure why reading the Word hurt your faith unless you are having some issues grasping some things or perhaps just having a hard time getting answers that are sufficient. By no means do I know everything or claim to but I would be happy to find you any answers within my ability or reach out to one of my own leaders to get you the information you need. I have read a couple threads that were not answered in the most Christlike or loving ways which was disappointing, but I always say never throw the baby out with the bath water. This seems to be a good resource and it would be a shame to discredit everything because a few people. Also, try to keep in mind that you can not judge a persons heart or tone in a txt, email, message ect. I do believe that in the majority of what appeared to be unkind responses the actual problem stemmed from a doctrinal belief or answer. Sometimes people just do not have the right words and tend to become angry or judge to make themselves feel better. Also, there are times we ourselves feel convicted and it is easy to become sensitive when this happens. As I have not read your threads yet I do not know if that is the case. Their are many people who know what scripture says and speak all the right Christian words but knowing what it means to the point of a heart change is a different thing entirely. As a Pastors wife I have seen the best and worst of both sides. I really hope you do not leave with any unanswered questions and I will like I said do my best to help. Just do not get dragged into arguments, or allow others walk with God effect how you view your own. If someone is speaking without intent to edify, uplift, or rebuke with the intention to help you further your walk and grow in your faith then they are not speaking how God calls them to and you should not allow someone like that to speak into your life. My love and prayers will be with you. please like I said feel free to contact me. I will go look in apologetics to see if I can get you some answers.

 

[Jimmy P]

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/jimmy-ps-funhouse-50.7903840/page-49

NV, come to our thread...we won't judge you, hate you, make fun of you...you are welcomed as is everyone...that's the way it's been from day 1...consider it...

 

[Lulav]

Now that I've gotten your attention
Please NOTE that this thread
was moved from the Introduce Yourself forum
to
Exploring Christianity
Please continue to post according to the rules of this
forum in a helpful manner.
Thank you All ​

 

[Ironhold]

Nihilist, if you'd like to talk, feel free to send me a PM so that we can discuss things without interruption.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

Again not answering. You asked for a scientifically acceptable Method, as I asked for in return.
This however is merely a series of simple statements in tabular form, juxtaposed.
In our previous discussion all these points were raised and dismissed with Historical Critical Method still finding the Resurrection more probable.

This however remains a tangent, so I suggest you find our previous discussion, review it, and then start a new thread somewhere if you wish to discuss it. (With preferably some form of Method that can back up your claims)

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

This is technically my introduction because I never made a thread here. But really, instead of a "hello", I'm coming here asking if there is a reason to stay.

I was born into a Christian home and indoctrinated into the faith my whole childhood. At 18 I backslid, then I got stronger in my faith and dedicated myself to reading the whole Bible. This utterly obliterated my faith.

I'm not making this post to open up a dialogue on that issue. I've already turned over every leaf on the apologetics forum and have gotten very few answers. So if you are looking to argue, you can respond to my arguments there. But I doubt I'll respond because, as stated above, I'm not convinced that I have a good reason to stay on these forums and if nothing enlightening happens on this thread then I'm done here (and my expectations are that this thread will probably be taken down and action taken against my account).

The vast majority of attempts at answering my questions have been abysmal failures, which wasn't surprising, but what surprised me was the amount of vitriol and hate Christians have spewed at me. I've participated in this, sometimes instigating and sometimes rightfully responding to unprovoked attacks, and I simply do not see the love of Christ anywhere on these forums. I have no desire to be a jerk, but even if I did I should not receive rude comments back from a Christian. Am I wrong in thinking that Christians are held to a higher standard than I am?

In my time here I've seen hatred, mockery, and willful ignorance. What I haven't seen is love or intelligent discourse. Are atheists treated that way because we're not wanted here?

You need to stop blaming others for your lack of faith. I do have one question for you and the fact is why do the majority of atheists make the same claim you make about being raised in a Christian home but lack the Christian faith of that home, well there's one of two problems 1.) How would you know a Christian home if what you claim is true 2.) You were never a Christian but thought you were one by imitation. You see I thought I was a Christian for 36 years because I thought as you do until through "getting religion" for my daughter backfired on me. And that problem was that as you I thought I was a Christian and found out that I didn't know what and Christian was let alone how to become one. So please stop blaming other for your lack of comprehension of what a Christian entails and admit what you had was a religion and NOT a FAITH.

 

[Tree of Life]

This is technically my introduction because I never made a thread here. But really, instead of a "hello", I'm coming here asking if there is a reason to stay.

I was born into a Christian home and indoctrinated into the faith my whole childhood. At 18 I backslid, then I got stronger in my faith and dedicated myself to reading the whole Bible. This utterly obliterated my faith.

I'm not making this post to open up a dialogue on that issue. I've already turned over every leaf on the apologetics forum and have gotten very few answers. So if you are looking to argue, you can respond to my arguments there. But I doubt I'll respond because, as stated above, I'm not convinced that I have a good reason to stay on these forums and if nothing enlightening happens on this thread then I'm done here (and my expectations are that this thread will probably be taken down and action taken against my account).

The vast majority of attempts at answering my questions have been abysmal failures, which wasn't surprising, but what surprised me was the amount of vitriol and hate Christians have spewed at me. I've participated in this, sometimes instigating and sometimes rightfully responding to unprovoked attacks, and I simply do not see the love of Christ anywhere on these forums. I have no desire to be a jerk, but even if I did I should not receive rude comments back from a Christian. Am I wrong in thinking that Christians are held to a higher standard than I am?

In my time here I've seen hatred, mockery, and willful ignorance. What I haven't seen is love or intelligent discourse. Are atheists treated that way because we're not wanted here?

See ya mang!

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Again not answering. You asked for a scientifically acceptable Method, as I asked for in return.

There is no scientific method in play here so I would not ask for one. This is a matter of a historical method: examining sources. I only was comparing the sources, nothing more.

This however is merely a series of simple statements in tabular form, juxtaposed.
In our previous discussion all these points were raised and dismissed with Historical Critical Method still finding the Resurrection more probable.

This however remains a tangent, so I suggest you find our previous discussion, review it, and then start a new thread somewhere if you wish to discuss it. (With preferably some form of Method that can back up your claims)

I'm not inclined to go look it up as I'm not even inclined to continue arguing unless I'm convinced that the person I'm talking to is unbiased. But no, we never established that the resurrection is more historically plausible; I cannot conceive of anything more absurd.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

You need to stop blaming others for your lack of faith. I do have one question for you and the fact is why do the majority of atheists make the same claim you make about being raised in a Christian home but lack the Christian faith of that home, well there's one of two problems 1.) How would you know a Christian home if what you claim is true 2.) You were never a Christian but thought you were one by imitation. You see I thought I was a Christian for 36 years because I thought as you do until through "getting religion" for my daughter backfired on me. And that problem was that as you I thought I was a Christian and found out that I didn't know what and Christian was let alone how to become one. So please stop blaming other for your lack of comprehension of what a Christian entails and admit what you had was a religion and NOT a FAITH.

So faith is a good thing? Does it then follow that faith in Islam is good? No? But how do you know which faith is the right faith? Oh right, you know by faith which faith is the right faith.

Did the above never occurr to you over those 36 years? Also, what makes you qualified to tell me who or what I was? How do you know anything about me? You just know it by faith?

 

[JacksBratt]

So faith is a good thing? Does it then follow that faith in Islam is good? No? But how do you know which faith is the right faith? Oh right, you know by faith which faith is the right faith.

Did the above never occurr to you over those 36 years? Also, what makes you qualified to tell me who or what I was? How do you know anything about me? You just know it by faith?

Sorry to hear about your struggles here on this site and with your quest for peace for your soul.

If I can answer the questions you have just asked, "so faith is good?"

Faith, in Christ, is mandatory for salvation. We can have faith in many things, like Islam, but it is faith in Christ that is key to eternal life.

God also said that He is the only God and to have no other gods before Him, so, for you second question, faith in Islam is not going to please God or bring salvation.

The Koran is a religious book but God says that the bible is His word. So, we can know that the right faith is the faith in the one who gave us the truth through His word. Remember Christ is the word.(John 1:1) Faith in Christ is salvation.

To ask the question as you did above "So faith is a good thing? Does it then follow that faith in Islam is good?"? is a tactic used by Satan to deceive. He does this by twisting the words and meaning. When Christians talk of "faith" they are typically using "faith" to mean "faith in Christ". Satan asks the question as you do. To ask it properly gives the answer...."so, faith in Christ is a good thing? Does this then follow that faith in Islam is good"? In this rewording with full definitions of what is being asked, the answer is plainly obvious... no, faith in Islam is not good but faith in Christ is mandatory for salvation.

 

[Widlast]

So faith is a good thing? Does it then follow that faith in Islam is good? No? But how do you know which faith is the right faith? Oh right, you know by faith which faith is the right faith.

Did the above never occurr to you over those 36 years? Also, what makes you qualified to tell me who or what I was? How do you know anything about me? You just know it by faith?

Faith is a wonderful thing. But faith requires an object, and that object must truly exist. So no, one cannot have faith in Islam, because Islam is false, and demonstrably so because it is internally inconsistent.

The reason that he can question your faith is that a person "cannot lose what he never had". If you had faith when you were younger you would still have it.

No sane person can have visited New York, and then a few years later think "I don't think New York exists".
You have either experienced God or you have not, if you have you would know it.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

There is no scientific method in play here so I would not ask for one. This is a matter of a historical method: examining sources. I only was comparing the sources, nothing more.



I'm not inclined to go look it up as I'm not even inclined to continue arguing unless I'm convinced that the person I'm talking to is unbiased. But no, we never established that the resurrection is more historically plausible; I cannot conceive of anything more absurd.

I am sure you understand the Irony when you talk of Bias.

The Resurrection is more plausible by Historical Critical method and as you have never proposed an alternative one, this is where we stand. But enough with this tangent.

 

[Colter]

This is technically my introduction because I never made a thread here. But really, instead of a "hello", I'm coming here asking if there is a reason to stay.

I was born into a Christian home and indoctrinated into the faith my whole childhood. At 18 I backslid, then I got stronger in my faith and dedicated myself to reading the whole Bible. This utterly obliterated my faith.

I'm not making this post to open up a dialogue on that issue. I've already turned over every leaf on the apologetics forum and have gotten very few answers. So if you are looking to argue, you can respond to my arguments there. But I doubt I'll respond because, as stated above, I'm not convinced that I have a good reason to stay on these forums and if nothing enlightening happens on this thread then I'm done here (and my expectations are that this thread will probably be taken down and action taken against my account).

The vast majority of attempts at answering my questions have been abysmal failures, which wasn't surprising, but what surprised me was the amount of vitriol and hate Christians have spewed at me. I've participated in this, sometimes instigating and sometimes rightfully responding to unprovoked attacks, and I simply do not see the love of Christ anywhere on these forums. I have no desire to be a jerk, but even if I did I should not receive rude comments back from a Christian. Am I wrong in thinking that Christians are held to a higher standard than I am?

In my time here I've seen hatred, mockery, and willful ignorance. What I haven't seen is love or intelligent discourse. Are atheists treated that way because we're not wanted here?

Thanks. You aren't the first person born into Christianity who, through a sincere desire to know more, sat down and actually read the Bible only to be stunned by what it actually says. I agree.

I noticed that you have been equally disappointed by the lack of Christ like love on these forums from those who you have interacted with. I'm curious where your concept of "Christ like love" comes from as your foundation for comparison?

 

[AV1611VET]

I simply do not see the love of Christ anywhere on these forums.

Do yourself a favor then before you leave:

Go talk to Emmy.

She will change your mind in a hurry!

Here's an example of one of her posts: 3