Hi/Bye

[Nihilist Virus]

STAFF NOTE: This thread was moved from the Introduce Yourself forum to get better and more helpful replies. The OP did not start this here, please post according to the rules of this forum, meaning no debating, flaming, goading, etc. Thank You!


This is technically my introduction because I never made a thread here. But really, instead of a "hello", I'm coming here asking if there is a reason to stay.

I was born into a Christian home and indoctrinated into the faith my whole childhood. At 18 I backslid, then I got stronger in my faith and dedicated myself to reading the whole Bible. This utterly obliterated my faith.

I'm not making this post to open up a dialogue on that issue. I've already turned over every leaf on the apologetics forum and have gotten very few answers. So if you are looking to argue, you can respond to my arguments there. But I doubt I'll respond because, as stated above, I'm not convinced that I have a good reason to stay on these forums and if nothing enlightening happens on this thread then I'm done here (and my expectations are that this thread will probably be taken down and action taken against my account).

The vast majority of attempts at answering my questions have been abysmal failures, which wasn't surprising, but what surprised me was the amount of vitriol and hate Christians have spewed at me. I've participated in this, sometimes instigating and sometimes rightfully responding to unprovoked attacks, and I simply do not see the love of Christ anywhere on these forums. I have no desire to be a jerk, but even if I did I should not receive rude comments back from a Christian. Am I wrong in thinking that Christians are held to a higher standard than I am?

In my time here I've seen hatred, mockery, and willful ignorance. What I haven't seen is love or intelligent discourse. Are atheists treated that way because we're not wanted here?

 

[civilwarbuff]

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/christian-apologetics-statement-of-purpose.7859980/
http://www.christianforums.com/threads/christian-apologetics-outreach-sign-up-thread.7918242/
That pretty much covers it.....

 

[expos4ever]

In my time here I've seen hatred, mockery, and willful ignorance. What I haven't seen is love or intelligent discourse.

I believe it takes only a little reflection to raise the hypothesis that these forums certainly do not draw from a representative demographic of people generally, let alone Christians. In fact, and I am sure this may upset some, I suggest it is rather obvious that the following categories of people are over-represented:

1. People with time on their hands since they are, perhaps through no fault of their own, less than fully capable at the business of life.
2. People who enjoy baiting others;
3. People with crackpot beliefs seeking likeminded people;
4. People looking to express their xenophobia and homophobia.
5. People who, again perhaps through no fault of their own, are not thinking clearly.

To the extent that such groups are indeed over-represented, you will naturally enough encounter lots of discouraging and frustrating content.

To be balanced about this, though, I politely suggest there have been times when I (a Christian) have demonstrably refuted an erroneous line of thinking put forth by an "atheist", and the poster in question has simply ignored my material (presumably because he or she will not admit they have posted a bad argument).

So I think it goes both ways, at least to some degree.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

To be fair, you tend toward the antagonistic in your posts. If I am not mistaken you once said your goal was to make lukewarm Christians either non-Christian or fully adopt the extreme positions (paraphrasing). People aren't saints, so you really can't expect they would act in that manner in response to such posts.
Also, I myself have debated you before where you did not answer my question which I repeated multiple times, only ignored it.
Please stay however, maybe someday something you see here may do you good.

As in all things, I don't think the blame lies solely on one side.

 

[Paidiske]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd welcome intelligent and respectful discussion with anyone. I'm too new here to have tried discussing with you, I think.

It sounds as if you came hoping for some sort of resolution of your own faith situation. I don't know whether or not that's possible for you here so can't say anything about that. But if you think you've exhausted that possibility, the question remains whether there's anything else of value for you here, even if it's just a community where discussion on these topics is the point.

(I know I'm here because I can have conversations here that I just can't have in real life, because there isn't a critical mass of people around me interested in them!)

If you still think you have something to learn, or to contribute, I'd be grateful if you'd stay part of the conversations. The more the merrier!

 

[Nihilist Virus]

To be fair, you tend toward the antagonistic in your posts. If I am not mistaken you once said your goal was to make lukewarm Christians either non-Christian or fully adopt the extreme positions (paraphrasing).

Yes and I cite Revelation 3:16 for that.

Also, I myself have debated you before where you did not answer my question which I repeated multiple times, only ignored it.

I wouldn't do that unless you were on my ignore list, which you aren't. What was the question?

Please stay however, maybe someday something you see here may do you good.

Anything is possible I suppose.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd welcome intelligent and respectful discussion with anyone. I'm too new here to have tried discussing with you, I think.

It sounds as if you came hoping for some sort of resolution of your own faith situation. I don't know whether or not that's possible for you here so can't say anything about that. But if you think you've exhausted that possibility, the question remains whether there's anything else of value for you here, even if it's just a community where discussion on these topics is the point.

(I know I'm here because I can have conversations here that I just can't have in real life, because there isn't a critical mass of people around me interested in them!)

If you still think you have something to learn, or to contribute, I'd be grateful if you'd stay part of the conversations. The more the merrier!

It's not a faith thing. I don't think I'll ever have faith because I find it to be anything but a virtue. That's not to say I would refuse to believe the Bible if I was presented with something irrefutable, though (in that case it wouldn't be faith).

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Would much like to chat with you. Have been
on this site for many years, yet unable to reply under apologetics.

The apologetics forum in its current state has only existed for a few months. Maybe you can participate in this incarnation.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

What is required to post in apologetics? I recently seem to be blocked
from it.

Perhaps you have been flagged as a universalist or something?

 

[Nihilist Virus]

I appreciate the encouragement offered by all of you. Perhaps I just need a break from the debates. It gets frustrating when I ask a simple question and I get back-breaking mental gymnastics as a response instead of a simple, "I don't know."

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Have permission now. Want to talk there?

I have several open threads, you can comment on one or make your own argument and I will look at it.

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[Truthfrees]

Am I wrong in thinking that Christians are held to a higher standard than I am?

In my time here I've seen hatred, mockery, and willful ignorance. What I haven't seen is love or intelligent discourse. Are atheists treated that way because we're not wanted here?

You are correct! Christians should be held to higher standards because we have the love of God living in us.

Apologies that this has not been your experience here.

I think the questions you ask are excellent!

I think the problem is that some Christians don't have the answers.

God has the answers!

Most Christians simply believe whatever God says and Jesus commends them for doing so: John 20:29

Some Christians NEED to understand and ask a lot of questions, and God will answer them all, in time if a Christian persists: James 1:5

I hope you stay and give some of us a chance to answer your questions as best we can, but you need to know that your questions are very advanced questions that many Christians have never even thought about, and therefore don't know the answers.

I just started reading your posts yesterday.

I'd like a chance to answer your questions honestly to the best of my ability because I think your questions are valid and answers can be found.

God Bless you!

Your friend, TF

 

[freezerman2000]

Hi and please don't go..
Not all of us Christians are like those you describe from Apologetics.
Quite a few of us are more than willing to have a meaningful conversation/debate with you!

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Welcome to CF

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

.




I wouldn't do that unless you were on my ignore list, which you aren't.

You answered my post, just not my question. You said Alien Abductions are more probable than the Resurrection and asked for a scientifically valid method showing the opposite, which I gave. I then repeatedly asked for a method that supported your position, which you just ignored and tried to undermine the application of the Historical Critical approach that I had applied. It was tangential to the topic of the thread though, so I can't remember where it was.

People aren't obligated to answer all posts or questions directed at you though, so that fine. If someone chooses not to answer your criticism of their position, that is their right and vice versa.

 

[Commander Xenophon]

You are correct! Christians should be held to higher standards because we have the love of God living in us.

Apologies that this has not been your experience here.

I think the questions you ask are excellent!

I think the problem is that some Christians don't have the answers.

God has the answers!

Most Christians simply believe whatever God says and Jesus commends them for doing so: John 20:29

Some Christians NEED to understand and ask a lot of questions, and God will answer them all, in time if a Christian persists: James 1:5

I hope you stay and give some of us a chance to answer your questions as best we can, but you need to know that your questions are very advanced questions that many Christians have never even thought about, and therefore don't know the answers.

I just started reading your posts yesterday.

I'd like a chance to answer your questions honestly to the best of my ability because I think your questions are valid and answers can be found.

God Bless you!

Your friend, TF

I agree with you that we should be held to a higher standard. There have been some mean-spirited atheist members however who have been consistently verbally abusive of polite Christians, and this I think has driven some people to react in an inappropriately angry and hostile manner to legitimate questions posed by other atheists.

I hope NV stays and would love to work @Truthfrees with you to help answer some of his more complicated questions; I have some formal theological training as I am a cantor in the Orthodox Church, and I think together we might be able to provide answers. I think we also ought to try and loop @Der Alter into this because he is in my opinion the most knowledgeable Biblical apologost on the website that Inknow personally (I am sure there are others, but @Der Alter is a close friend and I have found his support to be amazing). @Aelred of Rievaulx and also @ViaCrucis are extremely talented theologians. It might be good if the five of us got together with @NihilistVirus in a conversation to talk things through with him; we would each come from different denominations (Calvinist Baptist, Word of Faith, Catholic, Lutheran and Orthodox) and in this way, we could also each offer the perspectives of our denomination. Because where @Nihilist Virus might find one denomination's view to not answer his question satisfactorily, the view of another might shed light on it, whereas, if we look at the question from all five, we can review with him the totality of Christian thought on the issue,

In my experience, @Nihilist Virus, you have not always understood the answers you were provided with by some members, and in some cases put them on ignore, thinking they were trolling you. Some may have been, but I think many were not; there actually are some paradoxes in the Christian faith, some questions where we cannot provide a definite answer, but these also do exist in science, for example, consider the limitations imposed by the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

One example of a subject matter where I have seen you become very unsatisfied with the answers provided, but where I don't think we can neccessarily provide any fully intellectually satisfactory answer, is on some of your questions relating to the relationship between God, the devil, and the Christian scriptures and Christiam faith. This is an extremely complicated area and it involves several branches of theology as well as one of the classic philosophical conundrums known as the Theodicy Problem, which amounts to, why does God allow suffering?

Gnostic Christianity had a very easy answer; they said this world was made by an evil demiurge and we had to escape to a purely spiritual realm with the helpmof the good God, who sent Jesus as a messenger to provide saving knowledge on how to escape the prison of matter. In mainstream Christianity as defined by the Statement of Faith on this website, the answer is much more complicated.

There are several other issues like this one where we may not have an answer that you find agreeable; one reason why I would like to team up woth TruthFrees, if she is willing, and some of the other leading apologists, is because I think if we pool our resources from different denominational traditions we might be able to provide an answer that works for you.

 

[Truthfrees]

I agree with you that we should be held to a higher standard. There have been some mean-spirited atheist members however who have been consistently verbally abusive of polite Christians, and this I think has driven some people to react in an inappropriately angry and hostile manner to legitimate questions posed by other atheists.

I hope NV stays and would love to work @Truthfrees with you to help answer some of his more complicated questions; I have some formal theological training as I am a cantor in the Orthodox Church, and I think together we might be able to provide answers. I think we also ought to try and loop @Der Alter into this because he is in my opinion the most knowledgeable Biblical apologost on the website that Inknow personally (I am sure there are others, but @Der Alter is a close friend and I have found his support to be amazing). @Aelred of Rievaulx and also @ViaCrucis are extremely talented theologians. It might be good if the five of us got together with @NihilistVirus in a conversation to talk things through with him; we would each come from different denominations (Calvinist Baptist, Word of Faith, Catholic, Lutheran and Orthodox) and in this way, we could also each offer the perspectives of our denomination. Because where @Nihilist Virus might find one denomination's view to not answer his question satisfactorily, the view of another might shed light on it, whereas, if we look at the question from all five, we can review with him the totality of Christian thought on the issue,

In my experience, @Nihilist Virus, you have not always understood the answers you were provided with by some members, and in some cases put them on ignore, thinking they were trolling you. Some may have been, but I think many were not; there actually are some paradoxes in the Christian faith, some questions where we cannot provide a definite answer, but these also do exist in science, for example, consider the limitations imposed by the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

One example of a subject matter where I have seen you very unsatisfied with the answers provided, but where I don't think we can neccessarily provide any fully intellectually satisfactory answer, is on some of your questions relating to the relationship between God, the devil, and the Christian scriptures and Christiam faith. This is an extremely complicated area and it involves several branches of theology as well as one of the classic philosophical conundrums known as the Theodicy Problem, which amounts to, why does God allow suffering?

Gnostic Christianity had a very easy answer; they said this world was made by an evil demiurge and we had to escape to a purely spiritual realm with the helpmof the good God, who sent Jesus as a messenger to provide saving knowledge on how to escape the prison of matter. In mainstream Christianity as defined by the Statement of Faith on this website, the answer is much more complicated.

Awesome!

I'm totally on board!

The only point I would add is that when someone doesn't get what I'm saying, I pray and ask God to tell me how to explain it better/differently.

I believe it is the job of the communicator to find a way to be understood, rather than blame the listener for not getting it.

God Bless you!

 

[EmmaCat]

I'm sad to see this, friend.

I've walked into some matters where I was knocked down and people were rude, but that's often the case with the Internet. It's not the forum itself; it's certain people on their keyboards who simply have nothing good to say, think they're always right because they know this or that, and don't mind telling others off.

I look for interesting things to talk about and started a blog. Sometimes you have to make your own niche in a big place like this and tell the people who are nice to you how much you appreciate them. Smile and pray for the rest of them. And keep going! Don't get stuck in a thread where you feel you're right and you keep getting shot down -- just say, "Well, that's how I feel, but thanks for your input" and go away before it gets hairy and you get hurt.

I'm very sensitive, and I always remember that I'm in charge here. I have the ultimate tool for a forum and people who try to dig at me or generate a negative response.

It's called the power button. Then you step away, go do something else, pray about it, come back, and go find something nice to talk about. By then the ones who were picking on you have signed off or they're off to another topic and leaving you alone.

Please give that a try, and don't leave us. Hang in here with me, okay? I don't bite.

All good things
Emmy