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Heretical Content and/or Occult Interpretations Found in Freemasonry

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ChristianMasonJim

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Your telling me you don't know the context of the Oath that you swore to of " your own free will and accord" spoke too..

JJJiiimmy....
I made a promise that I would not reveal it, so I will not. But you appear to already know and understand the contents, so please, enlighten us with your thoughts on it.
 
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ALX25

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I made a promise that I would not reveal it, so I will not. But you appear to already know and understand the contents, so please, enlighten us with your thoughts on it.


I've stated my position about that masonic DEATH speaking Oath over and over for three days now waiting for you to defend your oath as a christian -mason , it was a courtesy to you to call a " time out " to study the scripture of Proverbs I gave regarding the masonic oath, a man or christian man speaks , so come on Jim what do you think the masonic Oath you recited spoke to ?
 
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Do you have a problem with my response? So tell, was the fruit of my mouth (or in this format, KB) good or evil? Careful before you answer, I was after all citing Scripture for the most part.

the satan knows the Holy Scripture, front to back in every translation and language. he delights in apostasy coming forth from it.

For when God has created something good and with purpose, satan delights when such a good thing is used for evil.

With love and hope,
your brother,
charles
 
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Well, that makes two anti-Masons who acknowledge that I am, in fact a Christian--good things apparently DO come to those who wait. (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

Ok, here is my response. (Note that I read the NIV and the KJV, so here is the specific scripture that I will comment on. I am not familiar with the Amplified Bible, so I will work with what I am familiar.)

I understand this to mean that what a man sows, not only does he reap, but is also content with what he reaps--what a man says, ultimately reflects his true nature and character. Though the concepts of "positive" or "negative" are not specifically stated in this translation, one could infer that he who speaks positively will receive positively and be content with that positiveness, and one who speaks negatively will receive negatively and be content with that negativity.

Man possesses through his words alone, the capability to uplift and edify (and to the extreme, grant life), as well degrade and vilify (and to the extreme, invoke death.) And he will embrace that capability. As in verse 20, seeds sown through the tongue will bear fruit which will be consumed not only by others, but by one's self, influencing and affecting both others and ourselves.
Very good interpretation brother Jim. As an outsider looking in, and a fellow brother in Chirst, one can clearly see by the fruit which you eat, your are 100% Christian.

There is however one more meaning the Lord ALmighty conveys in this Word to us. What comes forth from our mouths could ultimately condemn ourselves. Whether by human authority or divine Authority.

With utmost hope,
your brother,
charles
 
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ChristianMasonJim

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I've stated my position about that masonic DEATH speaking Oath over and over for three days now waiting for you to defend your oath as a christian -mason
I hope you haven't been losing sleep over it. I know I haven't.

, it was a courtesy to you to call a " time out " to study the scripture of Proverbs I gave regarding the masonic oath,
I am so humbled and relieved to know that you extended to me such courtesy.

a man or christian man speaks , so come on Jim what do you think the masonic Oath you recited spoke to ?
It spoke to concepts of loyalty and integrity. Through the obligations, I made promises that I will keep, and I was shown through symbolic and allegorical words that the consequences of breaking promises are serious. They are simple life lessons. That's what they mean, and that's what Freemasons understand them to be. The words used may be harsh, but sometimes, a person needs to be shown something extreme before they fully understand the simplicity of the concepts.
 
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ALX25

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I hope you haven't been losing sleep over it. I know I haven't.


I am so humbled and relieved to know that you extended to me such courtesy.


It spoke to concepts of loyalty and integrity. Through the obligations, I made promises that I will keep, and I was shown through symbolic and allegorical words that the consequences of breaking promises are serious. They are simple life lessons. That's what they mean, and that's what Freemasons understand them to be. The words used may be harsh, but sometimes, a person needs to be shown something extreme before they fully understand the simplicity of the concepts.


Did JESUS require or ask you to take an OATH to concepts of loyalty and integrity to follow or remain in him ?
 
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ChristianMasonJim

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Very good interpretation brother Jim. As an outsider looking in, and a fellow brother in Chirst, one can clearly see by the fruit which you eat, your are 100% Christian.
Thank you. I appreciate your input, as I do not take this lightly.

There is however one more meaning the Lord ALmighty conveys in this Word to us. What comes forth from our mouths could ultimately condemn ourselves. Whether by human authority or divine Authority.
I do fully understand that, and discernment is always very important. My underlying point is and always has been that if one takes the time to really analyze the rituals and their intended purpose, you find that they are inspiring, solemn, and educational--far from what most anti-Masons would have you believe. The fact that they contain words that some may find harsh do not automatically imply that they are condemning.
 
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ALX25

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He never asked me to repeat an Oath to follow him either, but he allowed his blood to be shedd for me, you, and our sins and his blood spoke to and for one thing .... LIFE.. his blood wasn't shedd so that you or I could go repeat a masonic oath that speaks DEATH, his blood speaks throughout heaven and earth louder than any man made oath could possibly utter... his blood was shedd so that DEATH would not prevail over us...

So why would man repeat a masonic oath.

And why would a man stay in an organization like Masonry that would ask him to do so.

That's why I left masonry Jim.....
 
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So why would man repeat a masonic oath.

Because a man has found "certain" elements within the fraternity to be enlightening, spiritual, charitable, and edifying. All the while disassociating himself from the satanic aspects of the cult.
 
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ChristianMasonJim

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He never asked me to repeat an Oath to follow him either but he allowed his blood to be shedd for me, you, and our sins and his blood spoke to and for one thing .... LIFE.. his blood wasn't shedd so that you or I could go repeat a masonic oath that speaks DEATH, his blood speaks throughout heaven and earth louder than any man made oath could possibly utter... his blood was shedd so that DEATH would not prevail over us...

So why would man repeat a masonic oath.
Because Masonic obligations and vows are not as you describe. What about symbolism do you not understand?

And why would a man stay in an organization like Masonry that would ask him to do so.
Since it does not, there is no conflict.

That's why I left masonry Jim.....
That is your understanding and interpretation, and I commend you for acting on that which draws you closer to our Lord and Savour Jesus Christ. As for me, my understanding and interpretation is far different, So much so that my affilliation with Freemasonry has drawn me closer to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I hope you will show the same respect that I show you for my decision.
 
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My dearest brothers,

Peace eternal and the ALmighty's favor be upon all:


i am not a free mason. I have never considered joining free masonry. I do however know several dozen, including many from different rites, many who still practice in denial, and many who have denounced all that free masonry and illuminism are. That said, i am no expert, nor am i a fool. I have found the good of Jesus Christ in some free masons, and I have seen the evil of lucifer in others.


While the free mason is free to choose whom his worship is due in the beginning, he would be a wasted work if in the end had he not realized that it was he, himself who decided his eternal destination. Being said, he is god. A divine part of the Father, and a working cog in Christ consciousness. An integral piece of the temple sotosay.

Similarly the theosophist has himself become a wasted soul if he/she has not come to the realization that they are the christ, or should die in effort of becoming christ, ascending into divinity upon mortal death.

buddhism also enlightens mankind unto his divinity. Gnosticism is all about the spirit of man elevating above the physical plane into divinity, onto bigger and vaster universes.

There is little difference in these "religions". All of these relate to the same being of god, self. Yet there is but one who has said that man is god, and that was the fallen light, lucifer satan.

Now, free masonry steps way past budhism, new age, hinduism, dharmism, gnosticism. she instead invoke the name of ALLah, Jehovah, Jesus, YWHA. All the while relating the other false christs of history and geography to the same deity, whether He is ALLah, Jesus, YWHA, etc. Although the typical free mason coming from a Christian tradition would deny ALLah, lucifer, maitreyas. But the typical Islamist free mason would deny Jesus as the ALmighty, perhaps even denying YWHA, and definitely denying satan/lucifer maitreyas.


Yet these brother pledge their, no swear to one another in the name of this god of their cult. Indeed Jesus, the ONLY Christ would have any Christian to pity the buddhist and teach him of the TRUTH of Christ. We are all to act as shepherd in His stead, are we not. If there is one lost, we must seek out to find him.

But can we, as brothers in Christ Jesus, accept another christ, when he is to come? Can the brothers of free masonry denounce the maitreyas if the grand worshipful master call him the 1?

To whom do we truly owe our allegiance?

To the God ALmighty, maker of heaven and earth. Or to maitreyas buhdha/mahdi/christ/lucifer.


Two cannot walk together lest they be agreed!


With UTMOST hope for all who lay eyes upon these words,
your brother,
charles
 
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Rev Wayne

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i am no expert. . .
Believe me, we got that, the minute you referenced "illuminism" and Masonry in the same breath.

I have found the good of Jesus Christ in some free masons, and I have seen the evil of lucifer in others.
And I believe I am in a pretty fair position to say, that the same is true of churches. But so far, I haven't let it become a reason to exit the church. I've met a couple of pastors who have, though.

Now, free masonry steps way past budhism, new age, hinduism, dharmism, gnosticism. she instead invoke the name of ALLah, Jehovah, Jesus, YWHA. All the while relating the other false christs of history and geography to the same deity, whether He is ALLah, Jesus, YWHA, etc. Although the typical free mason coming from a Christian tradition would deny ALLah, lucifer, maitreyas. But the typical Islamist free mason would deny Jesus as the ALmighty, perhaps even denying YWHA, and definitely denying satan/lucifer maitreyas.
The error is, you attribute this to Masonry, when Masonry's position is neutral. Critics of Masonry have been fond of trying to make the case for this by citing the following:

In his private devotions a Mason will pray to Jehovah, Mohammed, Allah, Jesus or the Deity of his choice. In a Masonic Lodge, however, the Mason will find the name of his Deity within the G.A.O.T.U.
What they don't realize, even as they are making the accusation, is that in doing so, they are posting the evidence that refutes their own claim, because it clearly states that the names listed are names that the Mason might use IN PRIVATE DEVOTION. In other words, those are not referenced in the lodge; they are not referenced in Masonry to identify who God is in any way; and therefore none is attributable to Masonry at all, but rather, to the various religions--which is simply stating the obvious.

But raise this point, and they automatically change issues with you, and suddenly it becomes "praying to the biblical God in the presence of those of other religions," as though giving deference to their religion or to their god by doing so. Yet, it happens all the time at sporting events, it happens every time the U.S. Congress opens a session in either house, and in many other situations as well, without one peep being raised about it. So why is it a problem with one, but not the other? Am I the only one that can see this elephant right in front of us?

Another favorite accusation has to do with the allowing of one of any other faith to take his obligation upon the book of his choosing. Yet this has the potential of occurring every day in the courtrooms of this land, because it was decided by the courts that someone being sworn in for testimony, may do so on the sacred book of his/her choosing. Yet again, this takes place without one squawk from those who assail us with the accusations about it. Why? My guess is, cowardice. It's one thing to go bucking Masons on these issues, but quite another to go bucking the U.S. government. Maybe they're worried about the IRS because they're fudging the lines a bit on their declaration as non-profit organizations, who knows?

While the free mason is free to choose whom his worship is due in the beginning,
Some of your comments I can understand, having been there, done that until I found the accusations to be what they are. But then you go and toss comments in like this one. The way you state it so matter-of-factly, shows that you have no hesitation in saying it, and thus either never considered it, or have just been spoon-fed by the same folks who fed you the illuminati line. The fact that there are guys here who are still trying to talk us into leaving the lodge ought to tell you better than this "trapped" image. A Mason is as free five minutes, five months, five years after joining the lodge, as he was before he joined. I could put in my request if I felt I had reason to do so, at this moment or any moment to come (although, since I know the Holy Spirit led me to join in the first place, that it will be only at His bidding that I would leave).

Two cannot walk together lest they be agreed!

That's exactly why I put my foot down and insisted that if the Lord did not lead me, I would not join, when it was becoming clearer and clearer that it was what He wanted. I had been in a bind for quite some time, because I felt that it was the direction He was leading, but I had no CLEAR indication of it, and so I hesitated. And it was a very short span, from the time I insisted on Him making the decision and not me, that He brought the assurance I sought. And almost at the same moment, He also brought the understanding of why it was so slow in coming. God uses opportunities in our lives, when He finds the situation conducive to it, to increase our faith. I know because He has done it so many times in my life, and when I stepped out in trust, even though not being completely sure, He always brought confirmation and assurance, and the end result always was, a stronger faith. What He revealed to me in this one was, He truly wanted it to be as Masonry describes it, "of my own free will and accord."

Certainly, in finding I was in the center of His will, there was the increase of faith that came with the assurance. But I can't help but think it might have been even greater had I been able to trust the instincts that were already telling me to take the way He eventually led.

Freemasonry is not for everyone, and apparently you are one of those for whom it is not. But try to receive this in the spirit in which it is given, that not every Christian is cut from the same cloth, we have different opinions on many matters. To the rigid and dogmatic, there will always be the attempt to try to apply it to everyone else, as if Christianity has to be one-size-fits-all (and in saying that I do not intend it about you, but about others who frequent this place); but to me, this is simply another one of those matters where Christians are simply bound to differ.

P.S. Like the sig, with which I consider myself in complete agreement.
 
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ALX25

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Because Masonic obligations and vows are not as you describe. What about symbolism do you not understand?


Since it does not, there is no conflict.


That is your understanding and interpretation, and I commend you for acting on that which draws you closer to our Lord and Savour Jesus Christ. As for me, my understanding and interpretation is far different, So much so that my affilliation with Freemasonry has drawn me closer to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I hope you will show the same respect that I show you for my decision.



You make no sense Jim, whatever symbolism the masoinc oath speaks of does not in any way shape or form prevent the candidate from actually speaking such a words out of his mouth that go's directly against the counsel of the God of the Holy Bible specifically Proverbs 18:20-21 (Amplified Bible)


20A man's [moral] self shall be filled with the fruit of his mouth; and with the consequence of his words he must be satisfied [whether good or evil].

21Death and life are in the power of the tongue, and they who indulge in it shall eat the fruit of it [for death or life].(A)


who warns against the power of the tounge not the the interpretation of symbolism... the point is the candidate speaks death by his own tounge ... that masonry taught him to do,, what dont you understand Christian mason Jim??

Get it now ...
 
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Rev Wayne

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Symbolism doesn't matter.
What matters is what is in the heart:
A good person produces good things from the treasury of a good heart, and an evil person produces evil things from the treasury of an evil heart. What you say flows from what is in your heart. (Luke 6:45)
If the Mason who takes the obligation does so with the understanding that its meaning is symbolic, then God knows the heart, and knows what is intended.
 
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ALX25

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What matters is what is in the heart:

If the Mason who takes the obligation does so with the understanding that its meaning is symbolic, then God knows the heart, and knows what is intended.


One : you speak very highly of a candidate coming close to understanding the symbolism of the masonic oath... being that's the first piece of study material he recieves.. the candidate brought in is blind in terms of understanding anything other than what he is given and explained of.

Two: The understanding of the symbolism in the Oath is irrelevant the candidate speaks with his own tounge death weather he understands it or not, the God of the Holy Bible knows the vile condition of a mans heart, and the power of the tounge , wihich leads us back to the Warning of Proverbs 18: 20-21, and in this case the taught Masonic Oath that ignores the counsel of the God of the Holy Bible.

And because masonry ignores the counsel of the God of the Holy Bible , and teaches a man to speak such DEATH, Masonry Can not be of the God of the Holy Bible. In no way shape or form is that Christ-Like nor christian or even remotely close to the teachings and practice of christianity.

And that's how the Masonic Lodge of Free and Accpeted Masons welcomes a man....... with open arms..... teaching that same man to speak DEATH over his life...... and to ignore the counsel of the One true and Living God of the Holy Bible..

That's the conflict... good and evil ... Life and Death understand that first then come to discuss.
 
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Rev Wayne

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. . .the candidate brought in is blind. . .

That's pure hogwash. Those joining Masonry today are probably the most-informed Masons who have ever joined. One man told me he knew every detail of every degree in Masonry inside and out before he ever took the first one.

The understanding of the symbolism in the Oath is irrelevant the candidate speaks with his own tounge death weather he understands it or not


Well, you can substitute whatever you wish, now can't you? And you certainly did with this one. And what about all those Masons who join in jurisdictions where the oath doesn't contain the symbolic imprecatory sections? You can't make accusations about what they never took in the first place. But since you can't read minds, and since God is the only person who can, why not leave judgment up to Him? He's Judge and you're not, whether you leave it up to Him or not anyway.

the God of the Holy Bible knows the vile condition of a mans heart

I'm sure He does, which should be even further reason for you to refrain from judging--because God knows about it when you do.

And because masonry ignores the counsel of the God of the Holy Bible , and teaches a man to speak such DEATH,


Nobody is "speaking death" if they take it as symbolic. I wasn't "speaking death" when I took it, because I understood the symbolism. It gets expressed in another place even more clearly, with a meaning more like "If I violate my obligation, may it be as much a pain to my conscience as the physical pain would be if these things were done." All you're doing is trying to force your own opinions upon it. All these antimasons want to do is make it look they're so smart and Masons are so dumb, that Masons were somehow duped into joining.

Why don't you ask Mike, I've never seen anything witnessed to by him, that indicates in any way that when he took the oaths, that he was worried about any of these things being done to him. To suggest it is not only inaccurate, it's just plain silly.

And because masonry ignores the counsel of the God of the Holy Bible , and teaches a man to speak such DEATH, Masonry Can not be of the God of the Holy Bible. In no way shape or form is that Christ-Like nor christian or even remotely close to the teachings and practice of christianity.

You just don't get it, do you? Where did you think Masonry GOT the model it uses? The OT is FULL of such self-deprecatory statements when someone is indicating how serious they are about a matter:

Where thou diest, will I die, and there will I be buried: the LORD do so to me, and more also, if aught but death part thee and me. (Ruth 1:17)

Then King Solomon made a vow before the LORD: "May God strike me and even kill me if Adonijah has not sealed his fate with this request. (1 Kings 2:23)
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"What was it he said to you?” Eli asked. “Do not hide it from me. May God deal with you, be it ever so severely, if you hide from me anything he told you.” (1 Samuel 3:17)

David had just said, “It’s been useless—all my watching over this fellow’s property in the wilderness so that nothing of his was missing. He has paid me back evil for good. May God deal with David, be it ever so severely, if by morning I leave alive one male of all who belong to him!” (1 Samuel 25:21-22)

May God deal with Abner, be it ever so severely, if I do not do for David what the LORD promised him on oath and transfer the kingdom from the house of Saul and establish David’s throne over Israel and Judah from Dan to Beersheba.” (2 Samuel 3:9-10)

Then they all came and urged David to eat something while it was still day; but David took an oath, saying, “May God deal with me, be it ever so severely, if I taste bread or anything else before the sun sets!” (2 Samuel 3:35)

And say to Amasa, ‘Are you not my own flesh and blood? May God deal with me, be it ever so severely, if you are not the commander of my army for life in place of Joab.’” (2 Samuel 19:13)
I could go on, there are plenty more of these, but I think the readers get the picture.

And that's how the Masonic Lodge of Free and Accpeted Masons welcomes a man....... with open arms..... teaching that same man to speak DEATH over his life...... and to ignore the counsel of the One true and Living God of the Holy Bible..

(1) It's not "speaking death," (2) it's gradually being phased out of Masonry anyway, and (3) it's not prohibited. The practice Jesus spoke of in taking oaths was in taking them frivolously, and/or not being sincere when one takes it. Pretty much a polar opposite, as anyone can see.
 
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Rev Wayne

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Silence? Is that what you take it to be when someone responds? And what if the one to whom you speak doesn't have the luxury of having nothing better to do, as you seem to have, and can't reply until much longer after the question was asked? After all, there was only 59 minutes between question and reply. If it wasn't for the ice storm, I doubt I'd have even been in here this afternoon. It's been kinda in and out just a little bit, too, we might lose internet connection before it's over.

Seems kinda short-sighted to wait one hour, then make smug declarations of victory--especially when your reply didn't come till 12 minutes AFTER I had already replied.

Besides, some of us (unlike you, for sure) like to take a little time and actually put some thought into it before replying.
 
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