Enlighten me.
Your telling me you don't know the context of the Oath that you swore to of " your own free will and accord" spoke too..
JJJiiimmy....
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Enlighten me.
I made a promise that I would not reveal it, so I will not. But you appear to already know and understand the contents, so please, enlighten us with your thoughts on it.Your telling me you don't know the context of the Oath that you swore to of " your own free will and accord" spoke too..
JJJiiimmy....
I made a promise that I would not reveal it, so I will not. But you appear to already know and understand the contents, so please, enlighten us with your thoughts on it.
Do you have a problem with my response? So tell, was the fruit of my mouth (or in this format, KB) good or evil? Careful before you answer, I was after all citing Scripture for the most part.
Very good interpretation brother Jim. As an outsider looking in, and a fellow brother in Chirst, one can clearly see by the fruit which you eat, your are 100% Christian.Well, that makes two anti-Masons who acknowledge that I am, in fact a Christian--good things apparently DO come to those who wait. (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)
Ok, here is my response. (Note that I read the NIV and the KJV, so here is the specific scripture that I will comment on. I am not familiar with the Amplified Bible, so I will work with what I am familiar.)
I understand this to mean that what a man sows, not only does he reap, but is also content with what he reaps--what a man says, ultimately reflects his true nature and character. Though the concepts of "positive" or "negative" are not specifically stated in this translation, one could infer that he who speaks positively will receive positively and be content with that positiveness, and one who speaks negatively will receive negatively and be content with that negativity.
Man possesses through his words alone, the capability to uplift and edify (and to the extreme, grant life), as well degrade and vilify (and to the extreme, invoke death.) And he will embrace that capability. As in verse 20, seeds sown through the tongue will bear fruit which will be consumed not only by others, but by one's self, influencing and affecting both others and ourselves.
I hope you haven't been losing sleep over it. I know I haven't.I've stated my position about that masonic DEATH speaking Oath over and over for three days now waiting for you to defend your oath as a christian -mason
I am so humbled and relieved to know that you extended to me such courtesy., it was a courtesy to you to call a " time out " to study the scripture of Proverbs I gave regarding the masonic oath,
It spoke to concepts of loyalty and integrity. Through the obligations, I made promises that I will keep, and I was shown through symbolic and allegorical words that the consequences of breaking promises are serious. They are simple life lessons. That's what they mean, and that's what Freemasons understand them to be. The words used may be harsh, but sometimes, a person needs to be shown something extreme before they fully understand the simplicity of the concepts.a man or christian man speaks , so come on Jim what do you think the masonic Oath you recited spoke to ?
I hope you haven't been losing sleep over it. I know I haven't.
I am so humbled and relieved to know that you extended to me such courtesy.
It spoke to concepts of loyalty and integrity. Through the obligations, I made promises that I will keep, and I was shown through symbolic and allegorical words that the consequences of breaking promises are serious. They are simple life lessons. That's what they mean, and that's what Freemasons understand them to be. The words used may be harsh, but sometimes, a person needs to be shown something extreme before they fully understand the simplicity of the concepts.
No.Did JESUS require or ask you to take an OATH to concepts of loyalty and integrity to follow or remain in him ?
Thank you. I appreciate your input, as I do not take this lightly.Very good interpretation brother Jim. As an outsider looking in, and a fellow brother in Chirst, one can clearly see by the fruit which you eat, your are 100% Christian.
I do fully understand that, and discernment is always very important. My underlying point is and always has been that if one takes the time to really analyze the rituals and their intended purpose, you find that they are inspiring, solemn, and educational--far from what most anti-Masons would have you believe. The fact that they contain words that some may find harsh do not automatically imply that they are condemning.There is however one more meaning the Lord ALmighty conveys in this Word to us. What comes forth from our mouths could ultimately condemn ourselves. Whether by human authority or divine Authority.
So why would man repeat a masonic oath.
Because Masonic obligations and vows are not as you describe. What about symbolism do you not understand?He never asked me to repeat an Oath to follow him either but he allowed his blood to be shedd for me, you, and our sins and his blood spoke to and for one thing .... LIFE.. his blood wasn't shedd so that you or I could go repeat a masonic oath that speaks DEATH, his blood speaks throughout heaven and earth louder than any man made oath could possibly utter... his blood was shedd so that DEATH would not prevail over us...
So why would man repeat a masonic oath.
Since it does not, there is no conflict.And why would a man stay in an organization like Masonry that would ask him to do so.
That is your understanding and interpretation, and I commend you for acting on that which draws you closer to our Lord and Savour Jesus Christ. As for me, my understanding and interpretation is far different, So much so that my affilliation with Freemasonry has drawn me closer to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I hope you will show the same respect that I show you for my decision.That's why I left masonry Jim.....
Believe me, we got that, the minute you referenced "illuminism" and Masonry in the same breath.i am no expert. . .
And I believe I am in a pretty fair position to say, that the same is true of churches. But so far, I haven't let it become a reason to exit the church. I've met a couple of pastors who have, though.I have found the good of Jesus Christ in some free masons, and I have seen the evil of lucifer in others.
The error is, you attribute this to Masonry, when Masonry's position is neutral. Critics of Masonry have been fond of trying to make the case for this by citing the following:Now, free masonry steps way past budhism, new age, hinduism, dharmism, gnosticism. she instead invoke the name of ALLah, Jehovah, Jesus, YWHA. All the while relating the other false christs of history and geography to the same deity, whether He is ALLah, Jesus, YWHA, etc. Although the typical free mason coming from a Christian tradition would deny ALLah, lucifer, maitreyas. But the typical Islamist free mason would deny Jesus as the ALmighty, perhaps even denying YWHA, and definitely denying satan/lucifer maitreyas.
What they don't realize, even as they are making the accusation, is that in doing so, they are posting the evidence that refutes their own claim, because it clearly states that the names listed are names that the Mason might use IN PRIVATE DEVOTION. In other words, those are not referenced in the lodge; they are not referenced in Masonry to identify who God is in any way; and therefore none is attributable to Masonry at all, but rather, to the various religions--which is simply stating the obvious.In his private devotions a Mason will pray to Jehovah, Mohammed, Allah, Jesus or the Deity of his choice. In a Masonic Lodge, however, the Mason will find the name of his Deity within the G.A.O.T.U.
Some of your comments I can understand, having been there, done that until I found the accusations to be what they are. But then you go and toss comments in like this one. The way you state it so matter-of-factly, shows that you have no hesitation in saying it, and thus either never considered it, or have just been spoon-fed by the same folks who fed you the illuminati line. The fact that there are guys here who are still trying to talk us into leaving the lodge ought to tell you better than this "trapped" image. A Mason is as free five minutes, five months, five years after joining the lodge, as he was before he joined. I could put in my request if I felt I had reason to do so, at this moment or any moment to come (although, since I know the Holy Spirit led me to join in the first place, that it will be only at His bidding that I would leave).While the free mason is free to choose whom his worship is due in the beginning,
Two cannot walk together lest they be agreed!
Because Masonic obligations and vows are not as you describe. What about symbolism do you not understand?
Since it does not, there is no conflict.
That is your understanding and interpretation, and I commend you for acting on that which draws you closer to our Lord and Savour Jesus Christ. As for me, my understanding and interpretation is far different, So much so that my affilliation with Freemasonry has drawn me closer to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I hope you will show the same respect that I show you for my decision.
What matters is what is in the heart:Symbolism doesn't matter.
If the Mason who takes the obligation does so with the understanding that its meaning is symbolic, then God knows the heart, and knows what is intended.A good person produces good things from the treasury of a good heart, and an evil person produces evil things from the treasury of an evil heart. What you say flows from what is in your heart. (Luke 6:45)
What matters is what is in the heart:
If the Mason who takes the obligation does so with the understanding that its meaning is symbolic, then God knows the heart, and knows what is intended.
. . .the candidate brought in is blind. . .
The understanding of the symbolism in the Oath is irrelevant the candidate speaks with his own tounge death weather he understands it or not
the God of the Holy Bible knows the vile condition of a mans heart
And because masonry ignores the counsel of the God of the Holy Bible , and teaches a man to speak such DEATH,
And because masonry ignores the counsel of the God of the Holy Bible , and teaches a man to speak such DEATH, Masonry Can not be of the God of the Holy Bible. In no way shape or form is that Christ-Like nor christian or even remotely close to the teachings and practice of christianity.
I could go on, there are plenty more of these, but I think the readers get the picture.Where thou diest, will I die, and there will I be buried: the LORD do so to me, and more also, if aught but death part thee and me. (Ruth 1:17)
Then King Solomon made a vow before the LORD: "May God strike me and even kill me if Adonijah has not sealed his fate with this request. (1 Kings 2:23)
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"What was it he said to you? Eli asked. Do not hide it from me. May God deal with you, be it ever so severely, if you hide from me anything he told you. (1 Samuel 3:17)
David had just said, Its been uselessall my watching over this fellows property in the wilderness so that nothing of his was missing. He has paid me back evil for good. May God deal with David, be it ever so severely, if by morning I leave alive one male of all who belong to him! (1 Samuel 25:21-22)
May God deal with Abner, be it ever so severely, if I do not do for David what the LORD promised him on oath and transfer the kingdom from the house of Saul and establish Davids throne over Israel and Judah from Dan to Beersheba. (2 Samuel 3:9-10)
Then they all came and urged David to eat something while it was still day; but David took an oath, saying, May God deal with me, be it ever so severely, if I taste bread or anything else before the sun sets! (2 Samuel 3:35)
And say to Amasa, Are you not my own flesh and blood? May God deal with me, be it ever so severely, if you are not the commander of my army for life in place of Joab. (2 Samuel 19:13)
And that's how the Masonic Lodge of Free and Accpeted Masons welcomes a man....... with open arms..... teaching that same man to speak DEATH over his life...... and to ignore the counsel of the One true and Living God of the Holy Bible..