Heretical Content and/or Occult Interpretations Found in Freemasonry

[O.F.F.]

According to some online Masonic sources it is; therefore my next series of posts will be about Esoteric Masonry. By definition, it obviously contains "Heretical Content and/or Occult Interpretations Found in Freemasonry." As a result, it belongs on this thread.

What is Esoteric Masonry?

Esoteric Masonry is the personal exploration to some of the less mainstream areas of the fraternal society. Some of these aspects include personal development, spiritualism, mysticism, and so on. It can include aspects of its history not commonly looked at by mainstream historians or participants. Also, it investigates lines of religious thought that exists on the fringes of mainstream doctrine. Investigation does not mean they work to prove (or disprove) one aspect or another, to the contrary, the esoteric side of masonry seeks find additional sources of wisdom and understanding.

Interest in Esoteric masonry is starting to make a come back. Not that its pursuits ever disappeared, certainly aspects have shifted in focus. It looks at aspects of personal resonance with the symbols of Freemasonry and helps develop our own faith. It can be very rewarding and fulfilling.

But this is not strictly what masonry is, but one aspect of it. (emphasis added)

Masonic Bue Lodge | May 6, 2009

I guess mainstream Masonry has become too boring for some Masons.

The concept of “Esoteric” is confusing to grasp. Many of you might not have even heard this term used too often in your day to day Masonry but it has been around for ages and is quite interesting. Some of the brothers I speak to think this ideology if hogwash while others love the deeper inner knowledge it brings them.

What Esoteric Masonry provides is another layer of education, looking further into the ritual and symbolism that is not spelled out on the forefront. . . Esoteric Masonry does not mean traditional Masonry as it’s known today.

. . .What is most important to keep in mind that the term “Secret” in this sense alludes to something with a meaning deeper than what is on the surface or something that needs to be studied with a greater self introspection. . .

Written by Cory Sigler of Hawthorne-Fortitude Lodge #200 F & A. M Ramsey, NJ

Stay tuned, there is more to come!

 

[O.F.F.]

Weird indeed. First you post stuff on "Masonic Orthodoxy," and then turn around and post something poles apart from it, without batting an eye.

Oh you ain't seen nothing yet! Suffice to say, if you don't like it, perhaps you need to revisit the OP and go somewhere where the views expressed appease you.

Like the author of those threads [WHICH WAS YOU] indicated in his opening post, I too have placed absolutely no limitations upon this concerning the types of material I will post HERE (except to obey the forum rules). In other words, I will NOT consider AT ALL the degree of authority accorded the sources I quote, the Masonic regularity of these sources, or the time frames from whence they came.

Get over it “rev” or go away and park yourself on your opposing thread(s). Either way, I could care less what you think or do. I am the author of this thread, and I will post what I find IN MASONRY that has, as the title indicates; “Heretical Content and/or Occult Interpretations Found in Freemasonry!”

 

[O.F.F.]

These authors do not, in any fashion, represent the teachings or beliefs of recognized Freemasonry.

But these same authors were "regular" Freemasons; therefore as far as I am concern, what they declare is fair game for THIS thread!

 

[Rev Wayne]

Can't make up your mind again, Mike? First of all, you go to the trouble to repost your OP statement, where you declare that you will not consider "at all" several things, among them being:

the Masonic regularity of these sources

Yet in your last post you also felt it necessary to point out:

But these same authors were "regular" Freemasons; therefore as far as I am concern, what they declare is fair game for THIS thread!

So first it's "anything is fair game for this thread," but when push comes to shove, all of a sudden it's "this is fair game because these Masons are 'regular.'"

In effect, you have declared that the material meets a requirement for the thread, which you never made a requirement for the thread.

As for me, I don't know how I could have missed that part about not considering regularity. Up to this point, I was going on the understanding that this thread was intended as a direct counter to the thread where I had been posting materials reflecting Christian content. But with this detail brought to our attention, I can see now I was wrong, this thread is not a directly opposite counter thread at all. All anyone has to do is read the OP for both those threads, to see that I never declared "irregular" Masonry to be under consideration. There's a very good reason for that, too: "fringe" Masonry, "pseudo"-Masonry, and "irregular" Masonry are spurious.

If this were just about "esotericism," that would be one thing; but since you have freely declared that this thread is open to spurious forms of Masonry, that is quite another. I for one find it difficult to enter into contention with you about any points raised here, as long as "regularity" remains tossed out the window.

And I think you yourself just illustrated for us in exemplary fashion, that you do not really consider regularity not to be a factor that must be considered in discussions of Masonry, by defending your post on the basis of regularity, in practically the same breath in which you just declared it a non-consideration. That suggests to me that you do not even believe it even as you state it. And you have to admit, for one who has gone tooth and nail with us over the issue of Prince Hall recognition, this doees signal quite a departure for you, from positions you have adopted as standard practice for some time now.

Think about it, and give this more consideration than you currently appear to have given it. I do think that by creating this thread, you were attempting to engage in a "tit for tat" response to the thread(s) I created; but this one detail signals something quite different, and indicates something far beyond merely posting a direct counter. But do think about this. Because should you choose to let this stand in the direction you have just now chosen to place the emphasis of this thread, I cannot in good conscience continue to post here. And, having presumed at the time you opened it that it was simply a diametric opposite thread to my own, I did not read the OP as carefully as I might otherwise have done, or I might have caught that point sooner. Had I caught that detail from the outset, I would have lifted it out at that point and made direct comment upon it, and would never have posted here. This thread is not a direct counter to the thread I had opened, because that one declaration makes it something vastly different. In effect, you are trying to yank the rug out from under the very distinction that separates the Masonry to which we belong and have come to know, from false (mis)representations of it.

For that reason, I bid you adieu and leave you to your ramblings. And I don't really care how many "regular" Masons you pull into this thread to attempt any semblance of believability, the consideration of even one false version of Freemasonry separates your discussions here from anything about the Freemasonry with which we have to do. "Irregular" forms of Masony have never been, are not now, and will never be, related to anything about the Freemasonry I have debated with you so often and for so long.

And since you insist on keeping Golden Dawn and other spurious non-Masonic entities, you might want to consider adjusting your thread title to "Heretical Content and/or Occult Interpretations Found in Spurious Freemasonry." Just so nobody will get the false impression that it actually has anything to do with us.

 

[ALX25]

ALX25:
I like your pinata picture. Mike captured Wayne's general expression and you've captured the intent of his posts. Marvelous! Cordially, Skip.

Skip Sampson : Yea it's kinda like he's the party favor and he does'nt know it...

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

I already responded, just because you don't like my answer and are fishing for another one, does not mean there is one. Apparently, though, you have something in mind, which, no matter what it is, is certainly not MY response. Maybe you can enlighten us as to what it is you seem to have been TOLD would be the answer.

While you're at it, perhaps you can get around to clarifying for us, as I requested, just what a "GWM" is.


Good story. And I have no problem answering either, I serve the One Who came fourth in the fire, Whom I understand to be the Lord Jesus Christ.

Who, of course, by YOUR count, would have been the FIFTH man in the fire, since you seem to have named four already. Just jesting, of course, perhaps you didn't realize that Shadrach was identical to Hananiah, being the Chaldean form rather than the Hebraic.

Yes brother, I know they were renamed by their slavemasters, and I do sometimes forget to call them by their God given names.

You believe Jesus was in that furnace huh? Good for you.

But if the US govt, led by the secret society of which you are a part, declares that ALL men, rich and poor, free and bonded must receive a mark in their hand or forehead, will you advise your "flock" against it?

Do you owe you allegiance to Adonai or to lucifer?

One word answer please.

Adonai or lucifer?

One word.
One word.
One word.

 

[Rev Wayne]

But if the US govt, led by the secret society of which you are a part, declares that ALL men, rich and poor, free and bonded must receive a mark in their hand or forehead, will you advise your "flock" against it?

Do you owe you allegiance to Adonai or to lucifer?

Already answered in my previous post, to which I refer you and any other reader. You need to pay better attention, and you wouldn't keep asking the same questions over and over:

Good story. And I have no problem answering either, I serve the One Who came fourth in the fire, Whom I understand to be the Lord Jesus Christ.

Who, of course, by YOUR count, would have been the FIFTH man in the fire, since you seem to have named four already. Just jesting, of course, perhaps you didn't realize that Shadrach was identical to Hananiah, being the Chaldean form rather than the Hebraic. (post #96)

And I repeat, your hypothetical question is way beyond imaginary. You've read one conspiracy website too many.

All you're doing is trying to reframe the question, playing semantics with it. If you don't LIKE it that I love and serve the Lord Jesus Christ, that's another matter, and certainly not a matter for the forum. Guess you'll just have to stew in your own juices on that one.

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

But these same authors were "regular" Freemasons; therefore as far as I am concern, what they declare is fair game for THIS thread!

Brother OFF,

Would you care to bring forth thr TRUTH irt to the origins of this cult, the theosophic influence along with the esoteric stuff you are already revealing.

Could you link the cabala, black magic, the socalled secrets of satan, and the current new age initiation for us all?

I'm positive you could, and since your such a better writer than I, this is why I ask.

Thanks,
your brother,
charles

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

Already answered in my previous post, to which I refer you and any other reader. You need to pay better attention, and you wouldn't keep asking the same questions over and over:


And I repeat, your hypothetical question is way beyond imaginary. You've read one conspiracy website too many.

All you're doing is trying to reframe the question, playing semantics with it. If you don't LIKE it that I love and serve the Lord Jesus Christ, that's another matter, and certainly not a matter for the forum. Guess you'll just have to stew in your own juices on that one.

How is my question beyond imaginary. Please remove the blinder of your pride, and see who are the rulers of this govt, both liberal and conservative.

See which direction they are leading this beast, and see their agenda is to formally merge us into a global order in which all of mankind will be chipped with an rfid.

It's entirely too late tho change anything, and that is not my purpose for saying these things anyway, but there is hope that those amongst you in your fraternity will abandon it and come back to the TRUTH in Jesus Christ.

This world WILL be burned away, and all that is manmade will be destroyed. Our choice is shall we watch as it burns from the heavens with the Lord, or shall we stay behind with the a/c, f/p, and their minions and burn with it?

 

[Rev Wayne]

How is my question beyond imaginary. Please remove the blinder of your pride, and see who are the rulers of this govt, both liberal and conservative.

See which direction they are leading this beast, and see their agenda is to formally merge us into a global order in which all of mankind will be chipped with an rfid.

And your evidence. . . ?

It's entirely too late tho change anything, and that is not my purpose for saying these things anyway, but there is hope that those amongst you in your fraternity will abandon it and come back to the TRUTH in Jesus Christ.

Sorry, Masons are known for free-thinking, and there is no lock-step to which anyone commands me to walk. I can speak only for myself to what you just stated, and speaking for myself only, all I can say is, I cannot "come back" to that which I never left. I worship & serve the Lord Jesus Christ, not some "other god," and I am not part of any government conspiracy.

This world WILL be burned away, and all that is manmade will be destroyed.

Well, you got that one right, at least. I suppose that counts for something.

Our choice is shall we watch as it burns from the heavens with the Lord, or shall we stay behind with the a/c, f/p, and their minions and burn with it?

When the Lord comes, He will know me then even as He knows me now. He has been faithful to me throughout my life, why would I even harbor such a thought as you suggest, that He might leave me behind when the Day comes?

 

[O.F.F.]

Brother OFF,

Would you care to bring forth thr TRUTH irt to the origins of this cult, the theosophic influence along with the esoteric stuff you are already revealing.

Could you link the cabala, black magic, the socalled secrets of satan, and the current new age initiation for us all?

I'm positive you could, and since your such a better writer than I, this is why I ask.

Thanks,
your brother,
charles

Hi Charles,

I would be happy to oblige, after all I am the initial author of this thread and there is much to be said about the connections of Freemasonry and the world of the Occult. However, I will do as you request on one condition; you must cease and desist from the "government conspiracy theory" you are suggesting.

While I do believe Satan is using Freemasonry as -- part and parcel -- of his futile grand scheme to try and thwart the finished work of God's salvation plan completed by His son Jesus Christ, I don't buy into the idea that end-time events as prophesied in Scripture have much, if anything, to do directly with Freemasonry. Yes, there have been, and will be, some Masons in the White House and Congress as 'part' of the political leadership of our country; and perhaps in other countries around the world; until the Lord returns. However, I do not believe they have as much power and influence as the conspiracy theory you are perpetuating may imply.

So let's stick to things we can find that show a stronger connection to Freemasonry by those members who chose to pursue, or establish, such Occult things as the Cabala (Kabala), the Golden Dawn, OTO, Rosicrucianism, Esoteric Masonry, and the like. As a result, we will reveal how Satan has indirectly used Freemasonry to further his cause through these evil things, rather than fuel the conspiracy theories of a direct satanic connection to Freemasonry or some notion that someday the Masons will take over the world.

Agreed? Is that a deal? There is so much more to attack Masonic heresy on biblical grounds that it makes the "Occult" information on this thread pale in comparison. I only include the Esoteric/Occult stuff because it is a known fact that there is, and always has been, a connection between it and Freemasonry. And I read recently that, for some Masons of today, interest in it is on the rise. This is one of the dangers of joining the Lodge; as Satan and his demons can use it to pique the curiosity of it for some, and lead the venerable, the naive and the vulnerable into participating in the forces of darkness.

Ephesians 6:12

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Sincerely your brother in Christ,

O.F.F.

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

Hi Charles,

I would be happy to oblige, after all I am the initial author of this thread and there is much to be said about the connections of Freemasonry and the world of the Occult. However, I will do as you request on one condition; you must cease and desist from the "government conspiracy theory" you are suggesting.

While I do believe Satan is using Freemasonry as -- part and parcel -- of his futile grand scheme to try and thwart the finished work of God's salvation plan completed by His son Jesus Christ, I don't buy into the idea that end-time events as prophesied in Scripture have much, if anything, to do directly with Freemasonry. Yes, there have been, and will be, some Masons in the White House and Congress as 'part' of the political leadership of our country; and perhaps in other countries around the world; until the Lord returns. However, I do not believe they have as much power and influence as the conspiracy theory you are perpetuating may imply.

So let's stick to things we can find that show a stronger connection to Freemasonry by those members who chose to pursue, or establish, such Occult things as the Cabala (Kabala), the Golden Dawn, OTO, Rosicrucianism, Esoteric Masonry, and the like. As a result, we will reveal how Satan has indirectly used Freemasonry to further his cause through these evil things, rather than fuel the conspiracy theories of a direct satanic connection to Freemasonry or some notion that someday the Masons will take over the world.

Agreed? Is that a deal? There is so much more to attack Masonic heresy on biblical grounds that it makes the "Occult" information on this thread pale in comparison. I only include the Esoteric/Occult stuff because it is a known fact that there is, and always has been, a connection between it and Freemasonry. And I read recently that, for some Masons of today, interest in it is on the rise. This is one of the dangers of joining the Lodge; as Satan and his demons can use it to pique the curiosity of it for some, and lead the venerable, the naive and the vulnerable into participating in the forces of darkness.



Sincerely your brother in Christ,

O.F.F.

Agreed!
I will leave my limited knowledge at the door.

Thanks brother,
charles

 

[Rev Wayne]

So let's stick to things we can find that show a stronger connection to Freemasonry by those members who chose to pursue, or establish, such Occult things as the Cabala (Kabala), the Golden Dawn, OTO, Rosicrucianism, Esoteric Masonry, and the like

Nice approach. Same old antimasonic tactic of "let's take the exception, blow it up so it looks bigger than anything else, and then pretend the part represents the whole. Let's just remember that when you do this, you are engaging in cheap theatrics, ignoring the huge majority of Masons whose beliefs would thus be, not merely misrepresented, but totally skewed.

it's comparable to making Fred Phelps the poster boy for "What is Christianity?"

 

[O.F.F.]

Nice approach. Same old antimasonic tactic of "let's take the exception, blow it up so it looks bigger than anything else, and then pretend the part represents the whole. Let's just remember that when you do this, you are engaging in cheap theatrics, ignoring the huge majority of Masons whose beliefs would thus be, not merely misrepresented, but totally skewed.

Keep in mind, YOU don't speak for Freemasonry in part, or whole, regular or not. And you don't know what Masons do in their private lives; especially their sins that so easily entangles them. They are just as susceptible to sin as everyone else; therefore some of them may be secretly engaging in Esoteric Masonry, just like some may be secretly engaging in some form of sexual immorality, pornography, alcoholism, drugs or other addiction.

 

[ALX25]

Volumes of countless dismantled masonic arguments............

 

[Rev Wayne]

They are just as susceptible to sin as everyone else

Neat little subterfuge there, Michael. Claim that Masons are no different than anyone else, and then single them out and start naming sins they "may" be guilty of, as if your comments have any meaning at all after that. In other words, you can be CLAIMING not to have spoken of them any differently than anyone else, while the very fact that you singled them out shows your intent to do just the opposite.

Do yourself a favor and give this one to Alex, he already seems to know what to do with it.

 

[O.F.F.]

As for me, I don't know how I could have missed that part about not considering regularity.

Then let me help you out; perhaps if you take Skip’s advice and take your blinders O.F.F. and stop focusing on the trees you won’t miss the forest. And, carefully reading our posts may not be a bad idea either.

Up to this point, I was going on the understanding that this thread was intended as a direct counter to the thread where I had been posting materials reflecting Christian content. But with this detail brought to our attention, I can see now I was wrong, this thread is not a directly opposite counter thread at all.

If you, a Christian pastor, don’t understand that by definition, “heretical” is the direct oppose of “biblical,” then I can’t help you with this one.

All anyone has to do is read the OP for both those threads, to see that I never declared "irregular" Masonry to be under consideration.

See that’s the crux of the problem in your debating of the issues. Again, you’re so hung up in the trees (specific Grand Lodge practices) you fail to acknowledge the forest (general Masonic principles). In other words, you try to position the trees as the forest; which is to say, you try to position the practices of specific Grand Lodges as the standard for “regularity” when in actuality it’s the general Masonic principles, as outlined in the other thread I started, which constitute the standards of “regularity.”

For example, when you insist that the Holy Bible is the Great Light in Masonry and the VSL that MUST be on the altar of every lodge; as if that is a standard for “regularity” you are wrong. Of the “Basic Principles” codified by the UGLE in 1929, #6 states that the VSL is the Great Light in Masonry and must be exhibited. And YOU KNOW that means ANY VSL can be the one exhibited as the Great Light in Masonry.

Going back and forth with Skip about how that principle is applied in Florida, South Carolina, or any other Grand Lodges in America is not only misleading, it totally misses the point. What’s worse is, you completely ignore the heretical implications of some of these general principles at the expense of stresses specific applications of them. I would share some examples from the thread you and Skip are debating the “VSL” issue, but I will wait and do so there, since that is where you’ve posted them.

There's a very good reason for that, too: "fringe" Masonry, "pseudo"-Masonry, and "irregular" Masonry are spurious.

Interesting word you use there; “spurious” meaning fake, bogus, false, and the like. But if you stop and think about it for a moment, when you position specific applications of general Masonic principles as though they are the standard, rather than the other way around, technically you are creating spurious Masonry.

If this were just about "esotericism," that would be one thing; but since you have freely declared that this thread is open to spurious forms of Masonry, that is quite another. I for one find it difficult to enter into contention with you about any points raised here, as long as "regularity" remains tossed out the window.

No one has tossed “regularity” out the window, but if you insist on creating your own spurious form of Masonry, as I just described, then there is no reason why other forms can’t be included here as well.

And I think you yourself just illustrated for us in exemplary fashion, that you do not really consider regularity not to be a factor that must be considered in discussions of Masonry…

That's right, "two negatives make a positive." I DO consider "Regularity" to be, not only a factor, but THE KEY FACTOR; not "NOT to be a factor." Yet I know what you meant. But then again, you’ve missed the point entirely for many years now. It is the general principles of “Regularity,” and their heretical implications, which we (me, Skip, EMFJ, and others) have been stressing to you for more than 6 years; and they are the very ammunition that shoot your arguments down to the ground!

But do think about this. Because should you choose to let this stand in the direction you have just now chosen to place the emphasis of this thread, I cannot in good conscience continue to post here.

Then may I bid you farewell, and God’s speed; for I plan to proceed as the OP indicates.

In effect, you are trying to yank the rug out from under the very distinction that separates the Masonry to which we belong and have come to know, from false (mis)representations of it.

Sorry, but I disagree wholeheartedly; it is you and your adamant imposition of a “Christian” interpretation of Masonry, as the Masonry you belong to, that is a false (mis)representation of it!

 

[O.F.F.]

Not all, mind you, but just about every man mentioned in the following article were members of "regular" Freemasonry. But you don't have to take my word for it, you can google them one by one and see for yourself. Click on the following link.


What was the Occult Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn?

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

Not all, mind you, but just about every man mentioned in the following article were members of "regular" Freemasonry. But you don't have to take my word for it, you can google them one by one and see for yourself.

Thank you for expounding, please continue.......

 

[O.F.F.]

"The Grand Master’s list [of Bible substitutes] shall at all times include the al-Kitab al-Aqdas of Bahaism, the Tripitaka of Buddhism, the Analects of Confucianism, the Vedas of Hinduism, the Koran of Islam, the Tanach of Judaism, the Koji-ki of Shintoism, the Adi Granth of Sikhism, the Tao-te Ching of Taoism and the Zend Avesta of Zoroastrianism." -- Copyright 2006 by Grand Lodge F.& A.M. of California [emphasis added]

Should a genuine, blood-bought, born-again, Bible-believing, devoted follower of Jesus Christ, and loyalist to the God of the Holy Bible, and it [Bible] alone, participate in an organization that dishonors God's Word, by substituting it with the writings of false religions that worship false gods?