Help me understand my Christian daughter

[seashale76]

This. This is exactly why I'm afraid to talk to my daughter about her religion. This is exactly why I've turned to an anonymous forum instead of bringing my questions to my Christian friends and co-workers. Because far to often any questioning of religious beliefs is seen as attacks. I certainly did not mean to attack your faith and I apologize if I came across that way.

There is no way I can prove to you that I am who I say I am, you will have to believe me on faith alone. I will tell you that I have not posted to this forum under any other name. This is a Christian forum, so out of respect for the creators of this forum and to avoid breaking any of the rules they have laid down, I will not post comments outside of this thread, which is specifically geared towards non-Christians. It's up to you to decide if you believe me or not.

I think you're going to have to look at the bigger picture here with your daughter, to be honest. You're her mother and you know her- but you also can't be too pushy with her either. If you push too much with her, then you will push her away. Substitute any topic in place of religion here and it would be the same story (different beliefs, being gay, dating someone you don't like, etcetera).

You could ask her and she could be honest with you- but you may never understand why she's become a Christian- plus I think you're being entirely too insecure about this. You love your daughter and I'm sure she loves you. You're just going to have to accept that in her life she's decided that she has a spiritual need that only God can fulfill and that she's obviously come to the opposite conclusion than you on the topic of God's existence. It is nothing against you and her family and friends; and your love- as wonderful as it is- just isn't enough to fulfill her needs in that area.

My faith is different enough from my own parents that it has caused family problems- the majority of which are on my mother's side. She doesn't understand, she clings to straw man arguments about what she thinks I believe rather than what I really believe, doesn't listen when I try to correct her (and she's the one who usually brings up the topic to boot), and we can go on for a time where things will be fine until she regresses to a hurt and slightly hostile demeanor on the topic out of the blue. I wind up humoring my mother. I love her immensely- but I'm not going to change back to her particular beliefs just because she wants me to.

Your daughter has become a Christian. The likelihood of her encountering a group that has brainwashed her into it as well as the likelihood of her having joined a bizarre cult is slim. However, you are acting like this is the end of the world, and it isn't. You will have to learn to accept it. Her having faith is not a personal affront to you.

ETA- and I totally see what you did there (the part I bolded).

 

[seashale76]

This idea of feeling the presence of God, or of just knowing that God exists, comes up over and over again, and I can honestly say, I have never felt it. I'm nearly 50 years old and there have been plenty of times in my life when God could have spoken to me, times when I actively sought out faith and religion, the time I rolled my car into a ditch, times of depression and great sorrow, times when I felt great joy, times when I felt at peace with the world and expirianced awe and wonder at the amazing world we live in, but God never spoke too me, I never felt His presence. What am I to conclude from that? It seems to me that there are only two explanations, either He doesn't exist, or He doesn't want me. The first explanation makes more sense to me, but if I start with the assumption that God exist, the second seems logical because there are millions of other people in the world, pretty much everyone who's not Christian, that He appears to not want either.

Everyone has different experiences, but God wants and loves everyone. See, I believe that you've never experienced anything because you really haven't been searching all that hard. So, yeah, I believe you believe this and feel this way, but God's been knocking all this time for you.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Some quick background: I was raised with only minimal religion, raised my own two kids without religion, and now consider myself an atheist. My daughter, now a college junior, started attending Christian churches when she started college and now considers herself a Christian, to the extent that she got baptized last fall and is now engaged to her Christian boyfriend. I desperately want to talk to her about her religious beliefs and understand what she's getting out of it, but I fear she's already pulling away for her family and the last thing I want to do is push her away even more. So I've come here to get some of my questions answered and gain some understanding of her beliefs.

Then I'll throw out a few questions:
What is the appeal of Christian faith? By this I mean, what is she getting out of it that she couldn't just get from a loving family and friends?

How do Christians find a way to make science and religion compatible? To me, any belief in the supernatural defies the basic foundation of science, I don't get how you can make them computable.

I see a lot of talk about how "Jesus loves us" and "God gave his only son to save us from our sins", but I don't really understand what this means. Sure, it's nice to be loved and I feel gratitude for someone making a sacrifice for me, but why is that love more special than love from family and friends? How can someone else sacrifice themself for my sins? That just doesn't make sense, aren't I responsible for myself? It just don't understand why that's such a big deal.

Thanks for listening! I hope to start a dialogue and post more questions as they come up

Hi Cary,

I'm sorry it feels like your at a loss with your daughter. That's gotta be a difficult position to be in. I've already responded previously to your first post, but there was no response, so I'm not sure if what you're wanting to know. Is there something really specific you'd like to ask?

 

[cerette]

This. This is exactly why I'm afraid to talk to my daughter about her religion. This is exactly why I've turned to an anonymous forum instead of bringing my questions to my Christian friends and co-workers. Because far to often any questioning of religious beliefs is seen as attacks. I certainly did not mean to attack your faith and I apologize if I came across that way.

There is no way I can prove to you that I am who I say I am, you will have to believe me on faith alone. I will tell you that I have not posted to this forum under any other name. This is a Christian forum, so out of respect for the creators of this forum and to avoid breaking any of the rules they have laid down, I will not post comments outside of this thread, which is specifically geared towards non-Christians. It's up to you to decide if you believe me or not.

Fair enough.
I wonder though how you are so well aware that questioning Christian beliefs is often seen as an attack, when in your OP you sounded more like you didn't really know much at all about anything Christian?
I still get a feeling you are the person I've discussed with at lengths on these forums before. Of course I could be wrong.
If you in fact have a daughter, and she is a Christian, she should have no reason to feel attacked by your asking questions. I would believe that she would in fact be happy to share her beliefs with you, that she would love for you to learn more about Christ. (Unless she is in some sort of a cult, where they cut people off from their families, but then again that's not real Christianity.)

 

[ParentofChildren]

Some quick background: I was raised with only minimal religion, raised my own two kids without religion, and now consider myself an atheist. My daughter, now a college junior, started attending Christian churches when she started college and now considers herself a Christian, to the extent that she got baptized last fall and is now engaged to her Christian boyfriend. I desperately want to talk to her about her religious beliefs and understand what she's getting out of it, but I fear she's already pulling away for her family and the last thing I want to do is push her away even more. So I've come here to get some of my questions answered and gain some understanding of her beliefs.

Then I'll throw out a few questions:
What is the appeal of Christian faith? By this I mean, what is she getting out of it that she couldn't just get from a loving family and friends?

>> God created the world, and breathed life into the believer & unbeliever. Everyone worships something. Believers come to the point where that something should be God. Your parents and family may be awesome, but even that is not enough. When we come back to God, and accept Christ, we know peace. Walking with the Lord puts God on the throne, and if we walk with him, reduces our vanity, curbs our pride, and & spiritually completes us.

How do Christians find a way to make science and religion compatible? To me, any belief in the supernatural defies the basic foundation of science, I don't get how you can make them computable.

>> Science is the explanation of Gods creation and handy work. Supernatural acts are miracles. There are miracles every day, does it mean they did not happen because science can not explain them. Math cant prove how humming birds fly, what gravity is

I see a lot of talk about how "Jesus loves us" and "God gave his only son to save us from our sins", but I don't really understand what this means. Sure, it's nice to be loved and I feel gratitude for someone making a sacrifice for me, but why is that love more special than love from family and friends? How can someone else sacrifice themself for my sins? That just doesn't make sense, aren't I responsible for myself? It just don't understand why that's such a big deal.

>> Love of family is important and the Bible teaches and supports this in old and new testaments. Judaism was an early faith to STOP child sacrifice. Even with families importance, it is a creation. God created man and woman, and called their union marriage. He believes children are raised better and adults live better in this bond. However we need to worship the creator as the foundation of our lives.
Thanks for listening! I hope to start a dialogue and post more questions as they come up

>> Seeing a child draw to faith at a radical pace, and getting engaged can be quite startling. I hope she and her fiancé honor her mother. Being of faith does not mean you toss out respect & love for nonbelievers, or common sense for life. She sounds young. As a parent you still have the role to guide her to a wise marriage.
peace <><

 

[ParentofChildren]

I think you are exactly right. I've been reading some Christian blogs and reflecting on Christians I know, including my daughter, and this is the same conclusion I'm coming to; that what they are expiriancing is like a fourth dimension, not perceivable from our regular senses. If God spoke to me, I would become a believer, but he hasn't. In order to believe now, I would have to radically and completely change my understanding of reality. That's what I mean by saying science and religion are not comparable. In the world I live in there is no such thing as magic, ghosts, spirits or Gods. Jesus, Santa Claus, trickster coyote are all mythical figures, certainly their stories are important and contain valuable lessons, but they are not, and never were, real.

CaryW, Jesus was real. His life, and death were witnessed and documented. You may doubt his resurrection or divinity, but be walked this earth. Numerous historians of the era including Josephus tell us this.

 

[CaryW]

I think you're going to have to look at the bigger picture here with your daughter, to be honest. You're her mother and you know her- but you also can't be too pushy with her either. If you push too much with her, then you will push her away. Substitute any topic in place of religion here and it would be the same story (different beliefs, being gay, dating someone you don't like, etcetera).

You could ask her and she could be honest with you- but you may never understand why she's become a Christian- plus I think you're being entirely too insecure about this. You love your daughter and I'm sure she loves you. You're just going to have to accept that in her life she's decided that she has a spiritual need that only God can fulfill and that she's obviously come to the opposite conclusion than you on the topic of God's existence. It is nothing against you and her family and friends; and your love- as wonderful as it is- just isn't enough to fulfill her needs in that area.

My faith is different enough from my own parents that it has caused family problems- the majority of which are on my mother's side. She doesn't understand, she clings to straw man arguments about what she thinks I believe rather than what I really believe, doesn't listen when I try to correct her (and she's the one who usually brings up the topic to boot), and we can go on for a time where things will be fine until she regresses to a hurt and slightly hostile demeanor on the topic out of the blue. I wind up humoring my mother. I love her immensely- but I'm not going to change back to her particular beliefs just because she wants me to.

Your daughter has become a Christian. The likelihood of her encountering a group that has brainwashed her into it as well as the likelihood of her having joined a bizarre cult is slim. However, you are acting like this is the end of the world, and it isn't. You will have to learn to accept it. Her having faith is not a personal affront to you.

ETA- and I totally see what you did there (the part I bolded).

Thanks, seashale, I think you hit the nail on the head here. The reason this has been such a struggle for me is because I know, in my logical brain, what you are saying is true, but my heart is hearing something completely different. The struggles I'm feeling is trying to reconcile the two. I know she still loves me and that she's still the amazing, fun-loving, unique person she has always been, but it broke my heart to hear her say she was choosing God over her family. But again, I know in my head that she didn't mean her statements to sound like that.

Due to an unfortunate coincidence, I was there when she got baptized. Her church does baptisms in a local creek only about once a summer and it just happened to be on the same weekend we were dropping off our son to college in the same town, so she couldn't very well not invite us, but honestly I'm not sure she would have even told us if it had happened on another weekend. A dozen or so kids and young adults were getting baptized and they all said a few words before we all went to the creek. To be honest, I found the whole thing gut-wrenchingly awful. I just don't believe in, or even understand, the concept of sin, deep down I believe all people are good or at least start out that way, so hearing innocent little children describe themselves as evil sinners is almost more than I can take. When it was her turn, all I could hear was that she was choosing God over family and that all we had done for her and given her all these years, was not enough. We had failed her, and not given her what she truly needed. She called herself a sinner who needed fixing. It broke my heart to hear her say this, but I know in my head that she didn't mean for what she said to sound that way, and probably didn't mean for us to even be there to hear it at all.

Another point you made is that I'm taking this all way too hard, and you are absolutely correct about that (which just makes me feel guilty and stupid!). As my husband has said, we should feel extremely grateful at how well she's doing, and that she's happy, and just focus on all the positives. We agree she's rushing into marriage too quickly and too young, but we have been forced to admit we really like her fiancé, he's smart, easy-going, has a good sense of humor, and more responsible and level-headed than she is, and they really do seem to be deeply in love, so we will just have to support them.

 

[seashale76]

Thanks, seashale, I think you hit the nail on the head here. The reason this has been such a struggle for me is because I know, in my logical brain, what you are saying is true, but my heart is hearing something completely different. The struggles I'm feeling is trying to reconcile the two. I know she still loves me and that she's still the amazing, fun-loving, unique person she has always been, but it broke my heart to hear her say she was choosing God over her family. But again, I know in my head that she didn't mean her statements to sound like that.

Due to an unfortunate coincidence, I was there when she got baptized. Her church does baptisms in a local creek only about once a summer and it just happened to be on the same weekend we were dropping off our son to college in the same town, so she couldn't very well not invite us, but honestly I'm not sure she would have even told us if it had happened on another weekend. A dozen or so kids and young adults were getting baptized and they all said a few words before we all went to the creek. To be honest, I found the whole thing gut-wrenchingly awful. I just don't believe in, or even understand, the concept of sin, deep down I believe all people are good or at least start out that way, so hearing innocent little children describe themselves as evil sinners is almost more than I can take. When it was her turn, all I could hear was that she was choosing God over family and that all we had done for her and given her all these years, was not enough. We had failed her, and not given her what she truly needed. She called herself a sinner who needed fixing. It broke my heart to hear her say this, but I know in my head that she didn't mean for what she said to sound that way, and probably didn't mean for us to even be there to hear it at all.

Another point you made is that I'm taking this all way too hard, and you are absolutely correct about that (which just makes me feel guilty and stupid!). As my husband has said, we should feel extremely grateful at how well she's doing, and that she's happy, and just focus on all the positives. We agree she's rushing into marriage too quickly and too young, but we have been forced to admit we really like her fiancé, he's smart, easy-going, has a good sense of humor, and more responsible and level-headed than she is, and they really do seem to be deeply in love, so we will just have to support them.

Ah- you're not stupid. You're a mom and you're just worried about your little girl.

Perhaps it is the case that she was nervous about asking you to her baptism? My mother came to my chrismation and glared at me the entire time- but I was also over thirty and invited her. I was actually kind of surprised she came. Even at my age- the fear of telling my parents was a big hurdle because I knew they wouldn't really approve. I didn't want to hurt her- but I also had to follow my convictions.

I agree that your daughter might be too young to get married- but it could all work out very well too. You can't really predict these things and it depends on the people involved. I just read something today how getting married young isn't the problem- it's just getting married when the two people involved aren't mature in their attitudes and outlook on life that causes the problems (and that can happen at any age).

It's likely going to take time for all of you to adjust to the new dynamic of her having faith- but it is not an insurmountable problem. It will be okay.

 

[elliott95]

...

 

[~Anastasia~]

Of course most people try to be good, and would describe themselves as generally good. I personally don't believe babies are born evil. I do think we are all born with the ability to choose and that sooner or later will make a wrong choice (invariably sooner). Being a sinner doesn't mean you are an evil person, it means you have committed a sin. Just one, even. That's all it takes.

I heard a popular evangelist ask people these questions in regard to sin.
Q: what do you call a person who tells a lie?
A: a liar
Q: what do you call a person who steals?
A: a thief
Q: have you EVER said something that was t true?
A: yes
Q: have you EVER taken something that wasn't yours?
A: yes (almost always)

So, by your own admission you are a liar and a thief.

You don't have to be evil and rotten to the core to need Jesus. You just have to be a person who's ever made a single mistake. Because even one sin goes on our "tab" and must be paid, and that means each of us has to die to pay for it. God didn't want to have to do that to us, so He offered Jesus (who offered Himself) who died and paid it for us, if we just let that payment "cover" us. That's our choice.

By the way, the word translated as "sin" has the original meaning "to miss the mark" - as in one who shoots an arrow at a target and misses.

Just wanting to explain "sinner" so I hope that helps.

 

[CaryW]

What a Christian perspective may have to offer your daughter that seems to be lacking in the family life at home is an openness to wonder and possibility.
Living by fitting everything into the box of science is restrictive, and confining and if not reductive, then not science.

The ways of the spirit on the other hand involve a sense of wonder and humility as the finitude of our lives experiences the infinitude of our reality.

An attitude of faith recognizes that our lives are too vast to be relegated to some box where everything has an explanation.

Interestingly enough, her fiancé, who was raised Christian, said almost the exact opposite to us. He is only now feeling like he is getting the opportunity to see the wonders of nature. He thinks it's wonderful and admits to being somewhat jealous of all she got to do as a child. That's what I meant in my last post about all that we've given her. I didn't mean material things, but the opportunities to go camping, to be somewhere dark enough to see the Milky Way, to experience living in foreign country, to visit museums and take part in summer classes that focused on experiments rather than rote learning, to indulge in all kinds of messy art projects, and so on. He feels like he missed out on a lot of that as a kid.

A belief in God is not necessary to appreciate the wonders of the world we live in, on the contrary, I think understanding how and why things are the way they are only increases the wonder. When I stand on the edge of the Grand Canyon, I can't help but feel awe and wonder at the beauty, but knowledge of the geologic layers, the forces of erosion, the complex ecosystems that live there, and the changes in weather patterns caused by the canyon itself only increase the wonder and make the experience even more awe inspiring. It saddens me to think that my daughter might lose this, and be convinced by people like you that science is cold and confining. It's not, science is the process of finding answers, it's never-ending, because for every answer that's found countless new questions arise. Everything we think we know can be revised and updated with every new discovery. How is that confining? I feel like she understood this as a child, and I don't want her to lose that sense of wonder.

 

[CaryW]

Of course most people try to be good, and would describe themselves as generally good. I personally don't believe babies are born evil. I do think we are all born with the ability to choose and that sooner or later will make a wrong choice (invariably sooner). Being a sinner doesn't mean you are an evil person, it means you have committed a sin. Just one, even. That's all it takes.

I heard a popular evangelist ask people these questions in regard to sin.
Q: what do you call a person who tells a lie?
A: a liar
Q: what do you call a person who steals?
A: a thief
Q: have you EVER said something that was t true?
A: yes
Q: have you EVER taken something that wasn't yours?
A: yes (almost always)

So, by your own admission you are a liar and a thief.

You don't have to be evil and rotten to the core to need Jesus. You just have to be a person who's ever made a single mistake. Because even one sin goes on our "tab" and must be paid, and that means each of us has to die to pay for it. God didn't want to have to do that to us, so He offered Jesus (who offered Himself) who died and paid it for us, if we just let that payment "cover" us. That's our choice.

By the way, the word translated as "sin" has the original meaning "to miss the mark" - as in one who shoots an arrow at a target and misses.

Just wanting to explain "sinner" so I hope that helps.

Yes, I understand how, under this definition of sin, everyone except the newborn baby is a sinner. But there are two things that make me very uncomfortable about this.

First, certainly all sins are not created equal. There is a huge difference between the thief who steals out of pure greed, because he wants to enjoy luxury items without having to do the hard work to earn them himself, and the thief who takes a bit of food home from the restaurant where he works because he is hungry and after paying his rent, he has no money left for food. It bothers me that the Christian God doesn't seem to take this into account, one tiny sin and you miss out on heaven, just like the murderers and rapists.

Second, is the idea that someone else can pay for our sins. It seems like this take away our personal responsibility to make amends for our own wrongdoing. If I lie and steal, I will face the consequences of those actions, either by punishment from the law, guilt, losing the respect of others, the natural consequences of my actions, or even karma, if you believe in that (which I do, not in a supernatural sense, but in the sense that, for example, if I lie all the time, other people will see lying as normal and will be more likely to lie to me). It just doesn't make sense that someone else can pay for something I did, I should pay for it. It almost seems like believing that Jesus has already paid for my sin means I don't have to worry about sinning again. What is there to stop someone from stealing when his stealing has already been forgiven?

 

[hedrick]

What kind of Church does she belong to? There are very different kinds of Christianity, and people have different things they like about it. For Anglicans or Orthodox, ritual is very important. For Pentecostals a personal experience of God is key. My branch of Christianity tends to focus on how people treat each other and Christian service. For all of us, the Church as a community is important. In a good Church (many are not) it functions almost as a second family.

Dealing with sin isn't the major purpose of Christianity in my tradition, though it's there. One Biblical position on Jesus' death is that it matters to us because we see ourselves as united to him. In him we die to old lives and are raised to new life. This is really the extra dimension you've referred to. I don't think God demands payment for sin. Sin does have consequences. They don't always fall on the one who does it, a fact that is fairly obvious to everyone. By using death and resurrection to regenerate us, Jesus took on many of those consequences.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Yes, I understand how, under this definition of sin, everyone except the newborn baby is a sinner. But there are two things that make me very uncomfortable about this.

First, certainly all sins are not created equal. There is a huge difference between the thief who steals out of pure greed, because he wants to enjoy luxury items without having to do the hard work to earn them himself, and the thief who takes a bit of food home from the restaurant where he works because he is hungry and after paying his rent, he has no money left for food. It bothers me that the Christian God doesn't seem to take this into account, one tiny sin and you miss out on heaven, just like the murderers and rapists.

Second, is the idea that someone else can pay for our sins. It seems like this take away our personal responsibility to make amends for our own wrongdoing. If I lie and steal, I will face the consequences of those actions, either by punishment from the law, guilt, losing the respect of others, the natural consequences of my actions, or even karma, if you believe in that (which I do, not in a supernatural sense, but in the sense that, for example, if I lie all the time, other people will see lying as normal and will be more likely to lie to me). It just doesn't make sense that someone else can pay for something I did, I should pay for it. It almost seems like believing that Jesus has already paid for my sin means I don't have to worry about sinning again. What is there to stop someone from stealing when his stealing has already been forgiven?

Well, you will often hear Christians say that "all sins are the same". In one sense they are, but in another they are not at all. In the sense that even one sin separates us from God, sins are all equal. It doesn't mean you had to be a terrorist, or murderer or something like that. The idea is that even if you led a "good life" but yet you told a few lies, that means you are not perfect, which is God's standard because He is holy.

But as far as differentiating between sins, God certainly does. He mentions certain sins that He hates, and certain things that are abominable to Him. When punishments for various sins are given throughout the Old Testament, you can see that He clearly differentiates between different sins, and whether the sin is purposeful or accidental, and whether one tried to prevent it. God actually makes MANY fine distinctions between sin.

As far as personal responsibility -- well, we ARE expected to take responsibility. It's just that the cost is so high, that God does not want to see us have to pay that. If your daughter did something wrong, particularly one of those "minor" sins you see, and you thought she would end up dying because of it, would you just say, "Honey, I've raised you to take personal accountability, so I'm sorry, but you're going to have to die" or would you take that punishment off her if you were able? You love her, just as God loves us, so I can guess what you might probably do.

The Bible does talk about making restitution for sins. It is not something that is always required, but God apparently does see the justice in it. Not only that, but He promises us restitution for certain cases of what has been taken from us. God is a just God. It might not always look the way we expect it to look, but that is certainly an attribute of His.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Oh, I had also meant to mention, there are numerous situations in the Bible where someone does suffer the consequences of their sins/actions. That is a principle that God has set in place. Just because one has been forgiven does not mean that you escape all natural consequences. In case knowing that matters to you.

 

[Harry3142]

CaryW-

Being a Christian does not exclude being scientific. As an example, many Christians, including myself, do not accept the creation story as a literal event, but only as the means whereby its author taught the Hebrews that there is only one God rather than a long list of gods and goddesses, such as were in the egyptian pantheon of deities. Likewise, the stories which follow are to be seen as 'morality tales', rather than historical events.

There is a scriptural 'litmus test' for determining whether a church is 'on the level', or instead a smokescreen for someone who wants to use it to gain power over others. Does her church accept these passages as applicable to Christians today?

Romans 3:19-5:10_ This is the 'saved by grace' passage. It tells us that our assurance of salvation is as a direct result of our accepting what God has already accomplished, rather than its assurance resting on our being 'good enough' in-and-of ourselves.

Galatians 5:16-26_ This is the 'motivational' passage. If our faith is genuine, then it will manifest itself not through the keeping of laws by rote, but rather in the motivations which dictate our actions being those which conform to God's will.

Matthew 25:31-46_ This is the 'feed the hungry' passage. And it is a 'deal breaker'. As Christians we are to see the suffering of others as requiring our aid, not our condemnation. Rather than staying aloof while judging those who are suffering as deserving of that suffering, we are to roll up our sleeves and go to work in an effort to improve their situation.

If the church that your daughter has joined accepts these passages as applying to their membership, then you can relax. However, if they try to 'dance around' any of these passages, then you need to investigate further in order to find out exactly what they are teaching. If we know the name of the church denomination, we can help in that investigation.

 

[elliott95]

....

 

[oi_antz]

I think it must be hard for you to see such glaring cultural changes as you have described, especially the dismissal of what you have done and the good that you see in your daughter, to be handed over to an idea that nothing can compare to the fulfilment she has found in Christ. I think if you were to pick her brains and show an interest in learning from her what she has learned about Christianity, and be fair about it, then you may actually contribute to a tighter bond between you. Love is not really about convincing someone that you are right or that they are wrong about you, but about respecting them and their conviction that they are right. If you treat her like that, then she will love you for accepting her. She's experienced something that you haven't, and you need to keep in mind that if you'd had her experiences then you might have easily come to the same conclusions as she has. At the least, you could show an interest in understanding that, and she will appreciate that. Lastly, you said you don't believe in the miracles of Jesus. I submit that you can't be sure of that because our present technology makes it impossible to reproduce. But, if technology is capable of turning water to wine one day, then can't you assume that God has the ability to do that too? All I am saying is that your experience (or lack thereof) does not nullify someone else's experience.

Edit: I said love isn't about telling someone they are wrong, which is wrong. Sometimes correction is applied out of love. But my point is with theism/atheism, there are things that are right for each point of view and things that each point of view can get wrong in it's determination to feel right. Truth is, there are things that neither point of view knows, they are just assumed. Christians assume differently from atheists. To be fair is to acknowledge that. To love is to transcend that.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Some quick background: I was raised with only minimal religion, raised my own two kids without religion, and now consider myself an atheist. My daughter, now a college junior, started attending Christian churches when she started college and now considers herself a Christian, to the extent that she got baptized last fall and is now engaged to her Christian boyfriend. I desperately want to talk to her about her religious beliefs and understand what she's getting out of it, but I fear she's already pulling away for her family and the last thing I want to do is push her away even more. So I've come here to get some of my questions answered and gain some understanding of her beliefs.

Then I'll throw out a few questions:
What is the appeal of Christian faith? By this I mean, what is she getting out of it that she couldn't just get from a loving family and friends?

How do Christians find a way to make science and religion compatible? To me, any belief in the supernatural defies the basic foundation of science, I don't get how you can make them computable.

I see a lot of talk about how "Jesus loves us" and "God gave his only son to save us from our sins", but I don't really understand what this means. Sure, it's nice to be loved and I feel gratitude for someone making a sacrifice for me, but why is that love more special than love from family and friends? How can someone else sacrifice themself for my sins? That just doesn't make sense, aren't I responsible for myself? It just don't understand why that's such a big deal.

Thanks for listening! I hope to start a dialogue and post more questions as they come up

I went thru what you described when I wanted to be an Atheist. This will help you as it did me : Common Atheists' Myths

I don't know how mature your daughter is in her Christian walk, but, I can tell you this... the Christian Faith is a thinking Persons Faith and it is built on reason and good rationality. It is based on evidences for a personal intelligent Theistic Creator existing and if you are sincere enough to dig, you will find the evidence and information you seek. It will then depend on what you do with this truth once its obtained, for, many will choose to just suppress it . Others will get beyond their pride , ego , and Will....and go where the truth lies above all else even if it means total surrender to the Creator of our Cosmos . And our very Souls.

If you want to read how I went from atheist to agnostic to Christian, let me know .

 

[talitha]

Interestingly enough, her fiancé, who was raised Christian, said almost the exact opposite to us. He is only now feeling like he is getting the opportunity to see the wonders of nature. He thinks it's wonderful and admits to being somewhat jealous of all she got to do as a child. That's what I meant in my last post about all that we've given her. I didn't mean material things, but the opportunities to go camping, to be somewhere dark enough to see the Milky Way, to experience living in foreign country, to visit museums and take part in summer classes that focused on experiments rather than rote learning, to indulge in all kinds of messy art projects, and so on. He feels like he missed out on a lot of that as a kid.

A belief in God is not necessary to appreciate the wonders of the world we live in...

And neither is a disbelief in God. Many Christian parents take their children to museums and on camping trips, etc., where we can discover all the wonders our Creator put in everything for us to find.

It saddens me to think that my daughter might lose this, and be convinced by people like you that science is cold and confining.

It's strange to me that you think Christianity and science - and even more confoundingly, Christianity and nature - are so mutually exclusive.

It's not, science is the process of finding answers, it's never-ending, because for every answer that's found countless new questions arise. Everything we think we know can be revised and updated with every new discovery. How is that confining?

It's not.

I feel like she understood this as a child, and I don't want her to lose that sense of wonder.

Not to worry!