Help me understand my Christian daughter

[CaryW]

Some quick background: I was raised with only minimal religion, raised my own two kids without religion, and now consider myself an atheist. My daughter, now a college junior, started attending Christian churches when she started college and now considers herself a Christian, to the extent that she got baptized last fall and is now engaged to her Christian boyfriend. I desperately want to talk to her about her religious beliefs and understand what she's getting out of it, but I fear she's already pulling away for her family and the last thing I want to do is push her away even more. So I've come here to get some of my questions answered and gain some understanding of her beliefs.

Then I'll throw out a few questions:
What is the appeal of Christian faith? By this I mean, what is she getting out of it that she couldn't just get from a loving family and friends?

How do Christians find a way to make science and religion compatible? To me, any belief in the supernatural defies the basic foundation of science, I don't get how you can make them computable.

I see a lot of talk about how "Jesus loves us" and "God gave his only son to save us from our sins", but I don't really understand what this means. Sure, it's nice to be loved and I feel gratitude for someone making a sacrifice for me, but why is that love more special than love from family and friends? How can someone else sacrifice themself for my sins? That just doesn't make sense, aren't I responsible for myself? It just don't understand why that's such a big deal.

Thanks for listening! I hope to start a dialogue and post more questions as they come up

 

[sinning machine]

You have asked a lot of questions, can you pick the one out you feel would be the first step for you to understand where your daughter has gone compared to where you remain.

 

[spiritandtruth2]

Some quick background: I was raised with only minimal religion, raised my own two kids without religion, and now consider myself an atheist. My daughter, now a college junior, started attending Christian churches when she started college and now considers herself a Christian, to the extent that she got baptized last fall and is now engaged to her Christian boyfriend. I desperately want to talk to her about her religious beliefs and understand what she's getting out of it, but I fear she's already pulling away for her family and the last thing I want to do is push her away even more. So I've come here to get some of my questions answered and gain some understanding of her beliefs.

Then I'll throw out a few questions:
What is the appeal of Christian faith? By this I mean, what is she getting out of it that she couldn't just get from a loving family and friends?

How do Christians find a way to make science and religion compatible? To me, any belief in the supernatural defies the basic foundation of science, I don't get how you can make them computable.

I see a lot of talk about how "Jesus loves us" and "God gave his only son to save us from our sins", but I don't really understand what this means. Sure, it's nice to be loved and I feel gratitude for someone making a sacrifice for me, but why is that love more special than love from family and friends? How can someone else sacrifice themself for my sins? That just doesn't make sense, aren't I responsible for myself? It just don't understand why that's such a big deal.

Thanks for listening! I hope to start a dialogue and post more questions as they come up

Here is an illustration that might help

A MAN AND HIS BIRDCAGE

A man was on the side of the road with a large birdcage. A boy noticed that the cage was full of birds of many kinds. "Where did you get those birds?" he asked.

"Oh, all over the place," the man replied. "I lure them with crumbs, pretend I'm their friend then when they are close, I net them and shove them into my cage."

"And what are you going to do with them now?"

The man grinned, "I'm going to prod them with sticks, and get them really mad so they fight and kill each other. Those that survive, I will kill. None will escape."

The boy looked steadily at the man. What made him do such things? He looked into the cruel, hard eyes. Then he looked at the birds, defenseless, without hope.

"Can I buy those birds?" the boy asked. The man hid a smile, aware that he could be on to a good thing if he played his cards right.

"Well," he said hesitantly, "The cage is pretty expensive, and I spent a lot of time collecting these birds. I'll tell you what I'll do, I'll let you have the lot, birds, cage and all for ten pounds and that jacket you're wearing."

The boy paused, ten pounds was all he had, and the jacket was new and very special, in fact it was his prized possession. Slowly, he took out the ten pounds and handed it over, then even more slowly he took off his jacket, gave it one last look then handed that over too. And then (well, you've guessed it) he opened the door and let the birds go free.

The ruler of the world, Satan, was on the side of life's road with a very large cage. The man coming towards him noticed that it was crammed full of people of every kind, young, old, from every race and nation.

"Where did you get these people?" the man asked.

"Oh, from all over the world," Satan replied. "I lure them with drink, drugs, lust, lies, anger, hate, love of money and all manner of things. I pretend I'm their friend, out to give them a good time, then when I've hooked them, into the cage they go."

"And what are you going to do with them now?" asked the man.

Satan grinned. "I'm going to prod them, provoke them, get them to hate and destroy each other; I'll stir up racial hatred, defiance of law and order; I'll make people bored, lonely, dissatisfied, confused and restless. It's easy. People will always listen to what I offer them and (what's better) blame God for the outcome!"

"And then what?" the man asked.

"Those who do not destroy themselves, I will destroy. None will escape me."

The man stepped forward. "Can I buy these people from you?" he asked.

Satan snarled, "Yes, but it will cost you your life."

So Jesus Christ, the Son of God, paid for your release, your freedom from Satan's trap, with His own life, on a torture stake. The door is open, and anyone, whom Satan has deceived and caged, can be set free.

God supplies all our needs - one day at a time. For with God nothing shall be impossible -- Luke 1:37

Also this Scripture is very important.

(John 17:3) 3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.

Would you like to part of this arrangement.

(Psalm 37:10, 11) 10 And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more; And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be. 11 But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.

(Psalm 37:29) 29 The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it.

 

[Soul2Soul]

Some quick background: I was raised with only minimal religion, raised my own two kids without religion, and now consider myself an atheist. My daughter, now a college junior, started attending Christian churches when she started college and now considers herself a Christian, to the extent that she got baptized last fall and is now engaged to her Christian boyfriend. I desperately want to talk to her about her religious beliefs and understand what she's getting out of it, but I fear she's already pulling away for her family and the last thing I want to do is push her away even more. So I've come here to get some of my questions answered and gain some understanding of her beliefs.

Then I'll throw out a few questions:
What is the appeal of Christian faith? By this I mean, what is she getting out of it that she couldn't just get from a loving family and friends?

How do Christians find a way to make science and religion compatible? To me, any belief in the supernatural defies the basic foundation of science, I don't get how you can make them computable.

I see a lot of talk about how "Jesus loves us" and "God gave his only son to save us from our sins", but I don't really understand what this means. Sure, it's nice to be loved and I feel gratitude for someone making a sacrifice for me, but why is that love more special than love from family and friends? How can someone else sacrifice themself for my sins? That just doesn't make sense, aren't I responsible for myself? It just don't understand why that's such a big deal.

Thanks for listening! I hope to start a dialogue and post more questions as they come up

Hi CaryW,

I hope that I can share some thoughts which might be useful to you.
When I first became a Christian - I was out (away from home) quite a lot - attending church services and meetings, sometimes daily, as well as meeting up with other Christians for coffee dates, sporting activities and much more ; I spent hours talking to people on the streets, in parks etc ... and my family would wonder what on earth I was up to! They started to question me and there were some heated exchanges amidst all kinds of accusations .... I continued with my lifestyle and kept on doing the same things. I was accused of being brainwashed and that one of my objectives was to sell the house and give all the money to the church! I went through some crazy stuff and faced a lot of pressure at home. All members of my family even attended a church at some point ... but although they accepted that I was involved with the church they never researched the reason(s) why I joined - in fact more specifically they never did want to properly investigate my reasons for becoming a Christian. I honestly believed then and still do believe that this is an important consideration. My desire was for the members of my family to not just ask questions about my reasons for becoming a Christian but rather that they studied the Bible and were then able to judge (my reasons) accordingly. One amazing thing about the Bible is how it can clarify and convey a message, concept, teaching etc that no human can - now you might be thinking that I'm saying that because I am a Christian ... that's a valid suggestion but is there any reason why you would not want to have a look into the Bible and understand from it's perspective why your daughter chose to become a Christian? Might that not be a useful endeavour to giving insight into your daughter's choice .... and something done out of love?

I for one am somebody who doesn't have a problem with science and religion being compatible. I'd be really comfortable and excited to share my views with you, preferably in a different setting.

I hope that some of my thoughts have been helpful in a some little way and welcome any other thoughts that you might want to share. Best wishes

 

[talitha]

Cary, thanks so much for expressing your heart and asking these questions.

What is the appeal of Christian faith? By this I mean, what is she getting out of it that she couldn't just get from a loving family and friends?

Okay, I believe that we are created to love and be loved by God, that it's the meaning of life. Family love is a reflection of divine love, and so is marital love. These things are meant to be clues to the meaning of life. When we find the love of God, it's like everything finally comes together and makes sense. Probably this is what happened for your daughter.

How do Christians find a way to make science and religion compatible? To me, any belief in the supernatural defies the basic foundation of science, I don't get how you can make them computable.

I don't see science and religion as "at odds". I see some atheistic scientists at odds with God, but that seems to be sort of a problem with anger or pride on their part. In truth God created the world to make sense scientifically, and really to point to him.

How can someone else sacrifice themself for my sins? That just doesn't make sense, aren't I responsible for myself? It just don't understand why that's such a big deal.

Well, it's a big deal because as I said before, we were created to love and be loved by God, but we were also created with a tragic flaw that seems to prevent the possibility of our ever reaching this destiny. God is completely holy, and it's utterly impossible for a sinful human to be in his presence. So he not only created us with a tragic flaw, but he put into our story the answer to the problem - the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world", as the Bible calls Jesus. To lead mankind toward this answer, he also chose a group of people within which to place the "Lamb" and gave them religious traditions that pointed toward this "Lamb". The story of mankind is all directed toward the crucifixion of the Lamb. This Lamb, of course, was the incarnate Son of God. Only someone fully human and fully divine could be the ultimate hero in this story, because only God could take on all of sin and death itself and be victorious, but in order to die he had to be human - and in order to be someone we could identify with in any way. Now, because of the death and resurrection of Jesus the Lamb, we can enjoy God's presence and experience his love. God could have provided a variety of ways for this to be possible, but he didn't - he wanted everyone to come through his son, to be part of his family. And that is a big deal.

Cary, if you have any more questions, I'd be happy to answer them!

blessings
tal

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I desperately want to talk to her about her religious beliefs and understand what she's getting out of it, but I fear she's already pulling away for her family and the last thing I want to do is push her away even more.

Matthew 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.


Then I'll throw out a few questions:
What is the appeal of Christian faith? By this I mean, what is she getting out of it that she couldn't just get from a loving family and friends?

John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.


How do Christians find a way to make science and religion compatible? To me, any belief in the supernatural defies the basic foundation of science, I don't get how you can make them computable.

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.


I see a lot of talk about how "Jesus loves us" and "God gave his only son to save us from our sins", but I don't really understand what this means. Sure, it's nice to be loved and I feel gratitude for someone making a sacrifice for me, but why is that love more special than love from family and friends?

John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

How can someone else sacrifice themself for my sins? That just doesn't make sense, aren't I responsible for myself? It just don't understand why that's such a big deal.

Galatians 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Thanks for listening! I hope to start a dialogue and post more questions as they come up

Hope those verses of scripture I inserted into your qoute will help you to understand.

 

[paul1149]

What is the appeal of Christian faith? By this I mean, what is she getting out of it that she couldn't just get from a loving family and friends?

How do Christians find a way to make science and religion compatible? To me, any belief in the supernatural defies the basic foundation of science, I don't get how you can make them computable.

it's nice to be loved and I feel gratitude for someone making a sacrifice for me, but why is that love more special than love from family and friends? How can someone else sacrifice themself for my sins? That just doesn't make sense, aren't I responsible for myself?

Hi Cary,
Good family and friends, and a meaningful life, are wonderful things. Things we all strive for. But the reality is that death trumps them all. Unless there is a solution to the problem of death, all human endeavors ultimately are futile.

There is no conflict between true science and religion, because science says, "Ok, I see how this particular thing happens. I understand that at a certain level. But there is so much more I do not understand. I am going to hold what I don't understand in abeyance until I have greater understanding".

True science does not say, "Ok, I see how that works. Therefore I understand it all. There is no room for anything else to be at play here, only what I can empirically determine". That is not science, that is scientism, which is a religion. It's a misplaced faith, in man's abilities.

This is where religion comes in. Religion deals with eternity and the big questions of human fallenness and its consequence, death. The conscience bears witness that we are flawed, that we cannot live up to our own standards of perfection. That points to the issue of what the Bible calls sin, which literally means "missing the mark".

When I say "religion" here I am speaking very generally. Because religion, also, is man's attempt to reach God, whereas Jesus going to the Cross was God reaching out to man, to solve the sin and death issues that man could not solve for himself. We don't preach religion, in which there is no power, we preach Jesus Christ, crucified for sinners, in whose resurrection is unlimited power.

I commend your sincere attempts to keep your family together, and hope that works out for you.

 

[CaryW]

Thank you all who have responded, I wish I could say it has helped, but the truth is I just feel like I'm at a total road block to understanding what you mean. I just can't get over the hump of believing in something that has no evidence and cannot be observed and tested. Eternal life and supreme beings just don't fit into everything I understand about reality.

I think Talitha hit on exactly why I feel so frustrated when she said this: "When we find the love of God, it's like everything finally comes together and makes sense."

I have never felt this, I can't even comprehend what this might feel like, and I can't see any kind of logical path that lead me to feel that way. I have read and tried to understand part of the bible, but what I see in the bible is stories. Stories like the birdcage story. Certainly these stories are important and can help us lead better, more fulfilling lives, but they are still stories, just because a story says I can have everlasting life doesn't mean it can really happen.

 

[talitha]

I understand - it's like we're talking about a four-dimensional world, but you only perceive three dimensions. If you start to see what we mean, then you will be a believer. When Jesus lived his earthly life, he was constantly making statements that the people around him did not understand, because he was speaking of spiritual reality, which he was very much aware of, but they were not. "Those who lose their lives for my sake will find it" . . . "The wind blows, and you see its effects, but you don't know where it comes from nor where it is going; so are those who are born of the spirit" . . . "Before Abraham was, I am" . . . This kind of statement was meant, I believe, to catalyze different thinking in his followers.

 

[sinning machine]

Thank you all who have responded, I wish I could say it has helped, but the truth is I just feel like I'm at a total road block to understanding what you mean. I just can't get over the hump of believing in something that has no evidence and cannot be observed and tested. Eternal life and supreme beings just don't fit into everything I understand about reality.

I think Talitha hit on exactly why I feel so frustrated when she said this: "When we find the love of God, it's like everything finally comes together and makes sense."

I have never felt this, I can't even comprehend what this might feel like, and I can't see any kind of logical path that lead me to feel that way. I have read and tried to understand part of the bible, but what I see in the bible is stories. Stories like the birdcage story. Certainly these stories are important and can help us lead better, more fulfilling lives, but they are still stories, just because a story says I can have everlasting life doesn't mean it can really happen.

Since this thread is all about the relationship between yourself and your daughter, Why don't you search the web for evidence, { there is mountains of evidence out there, if you want to find it } and then share this with your daughter, She will love you for this as there is no greater joy to a Christian than seeing GOD our creator at work.

 

[paul1149]

This movie, one of my favorites, amounts to a very entertaining dramatized course in apologetics. Perhaps it will give some insight.
The Perfect Stranger

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Some quick background: I was raised with only minimal religion, raised my own two kids without religion, and now consider myself an atheist. My daughter, now a college junior, started attending Christian churches when she started college and now considers herself a Christian, to the extent that she got baptized last fall and is now engaged to her Christian boyfriend. I desperately want to talk to her about her religious beliefs and understand what she's getting out of it, but I fear she's already pulling away for her family and the last thing I want to do is push her away even more. So I've come here to get some of my questions answered and gain some understanding of her beliefs.

Then I'll throw out a few questions:
What is the appeal of Christian faith? By this I mean, what is she getting out of it that she couldn't just get from a loving family and friends?

In a nutshell, the appeal of Christian faith is a more coherent sense of purpose, meaning, and ontological substance (i.e. eternal life.) I assume you already know this part.

How do Christians find a way to make science and religion compatible? To me, any belief in the supernatural defies the basic foundation of science, I don't get how you can make them computable.

Science and religion are not by necessity incompatible. If you think they are, this just means that your learning and reading have come from distinct sources that may not be giving you a wide enough analysis of just what science is 'doing' in the first place. You need to study 'philosophy of science,' along with the 'nature of science' to get beyond this mental roadblock.

I see a lot of talk about how "Jesus loves us" and "God gave his only son to save us from our sins", but I don't really understand what this means. Sure, it's nice to be loved and I feel gratitude for someone making a sacrifice for me, but why is that love more special than love from family and friends?

The first and foremost proposition of Christianity is that God is Creator. He is also Redeemer. These are not active positions that earthly family members can fulfill.

How can someone else sacrifice themself for my sins?

Simple. God has a penalty of justice. Only God can forgive sins, and only God can make and provide an exception in His justice.

That just doesn't make sense, aren't I responsible for myself? It just don't understand why that's such a big deal.

You are responsible for yourself, but your sins can never be paid back by yourself to an eternal being. The breach has an infinite gulf in value between you and God.

By the way, I have a secular degree in philosophy. I could easily be an atheist because of my degree; I am not.

Thanks for listening! I hope to start a dialogue and post more questions as they come up

 

[dhh712]

Then I'll throw out a few questions:
What is the appeal of Christian faith? By this I mean, what is she getting out of it that she couldn't just get from a loving family and friends?

I don't know that there is much worldly appeal to the Christian faith. One doesn't choose to be a Christian. It's about a relationship with one's Creator and the realization that one is in a state of rebellion against Him, that he has the status of a sinner before Him. It's the realization, once it is given, that God is the center of the world and not humans. It's a state of humility, the realization of humility and the craving to know Christ our Lord and Saviour. You can't get this from friends and family. Christ's love for us is perfect. Our love for each other is flawed and is rooted in the self or in others.

The only way that the truth sets us free is that once we receive faith, we realize that our interests do not lie in this world and its harsh depravity, but in the next. That can be a simple thing to say however, yet with our flesh being so weak and attached to worldly things, it is a difficult thing to really live that way, especially when one's own world does not contain much harshness and depravity but is rather quite nice. It is my belief that much material, physical comfort usually leads to a deadening of the spirit because the two worlds are at a constant war with each other: if one is satisfied, it causes the other to die.

How do Christians find a way to make science and religion compatible? To me, any belief in the supernatural defies the basic foundation of science, I don't get how you can make them computable.

That's because science is grounded in the five senses and the spiritual relationship one has with God is not contained in those five senses. The only thing we have from God outside of this world corrupted and skewed by sin is the Bible (if one is given the realization of it's perfect and inerrant inspiration by the Holy Spirit). The belief in God must be taken from this, else we are basing our beliefs on his creation and not the Creator. Even so, our hearts, consciences, and minds are skewed by sin; we can not trust it--we can only trust God.

Science can tell us many wonderful things about the world, all to the glorification of it's creator. Yet it can never tell us completely about God (beyond giving us clues to his personality or attributes). Nor is it to be considered the truth. Science only tells us that which can be proved by science. The only truth which exists is the Bible, though it definitely can be seen as flawed and containing many inaccuracies or contradictions because we are looking at it through the lenses of our darkened minds as well as trying to make it conform to the world which has been corrupted by sin and therefore is very skewed from the original way which God has created it and meant it to be seen as.

I see a lot of talk about how "Jesus loves us" and "God gave his only son to save us from our sins", but I don't really understand what this means. Sure, it's nice to be loved and I feel gratitude for someone making a sacrifice for me, but why is that love more special than love from family and friends?

You simply have not been convicted of your status as a sinner before God by the Holy Spirit. To me it is not fair at all why you are not and others have been. Yet I am basing my sense of fairness here on my own standards and not God's. His ways are not ours.

How can someone else sacrifice themself for my sins? That just doesn't make sense, aren't I responsible for myself? It just don't understand why that's such a big deal.

You are responsible for yourself yet you and no one alive today can fulfill God's law perfectly. He knows this and it is why He sent His only son as a sacrifice to fulfill the law perfectly; He became sin for us so that we do not have to suffer the penalty of our imperfections--His love for us is that great. It actually can be seen as unfair by our standards that God has chosen to impute Christ's righteousness onto any of us, as we are entirely unworthy and deserve nothing else than to suffer the wrath of God forever. Yet, He has done this, for His own purposes; and it is all to the glorification of God. It is the meaning for everything in this world, though we can not possibly understand how some of it--really most of it--can be that way.

 

[CaryW]

I understand - it's like we're talking about a four-dimensional world, but you only perceive three dimensions. If you start to see what we mean, then you will be a believer. When Jesus lived his earthly life, he was constantly making statements that the people around him did not understand, because he was speaking of spiritual reality, which he was very much aware of, but they were not. "Those who lose their lives for my sake will find it" . . . "The wind blows, and you see its effects, but you don't know where it comes from nor where it is going; so are those who are born of the spirit" . . . "Before Abraham was, I am" . . . This kind of statement was meant, I believe, to catalyze different thinking in his followers.

I think you are exactly right. I've been reading some Christian blogs and reflecting on Christians I know, including my daughter, and this is the same conclusion I'm coming to; that what they are expiriancing is like a fourth dimension, not perceivable from our regular senses. If God spoke to me, I would become a believer, but he hasn't. In order to believe now, I would have to radically and completely change my understanding of reality. That's what I mean by saying science and religion are not comparable. In the world I live in there is no such thing as magic, ghosts, spirits or Gods. Jesus, Santa Claus, trickster coyote are all mythical figures, certainly their stories are important and contain valuable lessons, but they are not, and never were, real.

 

[CaryW]

Since this thread is all about the relationship between yourself and your daughter, Why don't you search the web for evidence, { there is mountains of evidence out there, if you want to find it } and then share this with your daughter, She will love you for this as there is no greater joy to a Christian than seeing GOD our creator at work.

What do you think brought me here? I have already been reading some Christian blogs, listening to podcast from the church she attends and reading articles in the Christian magazine that she has occasionally shares on Facebook. But the problem is that they have only solidified my atheism. As I said, I'm reluctant to discuss any of this with her because I feel she is already pulling away from her family and I'm afraid I'd end up challenging her views and inadvertently push her further away.

 

[sinning machine]

What do you think brought me here? I have already been reading some Christian blogs, listening to podcast from the church she attends and reading articles in the Christian magazine that she has occasionally shares on Facebook. But the problem is that they have only solidified my atheism. As I said, I'm reluctant to discuss any of this with her because I feel she is already pulling away from her family and I'm afraid I'd end up challenging her views and inadvertently push her further away.

You are correct in what you say in your post above, and here is the scriptural proof.

John 6:44

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.

A better translation of the word is "to drag", in other words faith is a gift from GOD and you have not bean gifted it yet

Even if GOD by His grace was to give you faith, this would not mean that your daughter and yourself would agree on the scriptures, chances are your different perceptions to the meaning of them would clash, this forum being an example of this

here is the scriptural proof


Luke 12:51-53 ESV / 38 helpful votes

Do you think that I { Jesus Christ ] have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division. For from now on in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

The salvation plan of GOD The Father { the same GOD and whom Jesus prayed to} is three fold, most church doctrines teach that there is just one day of salvation and because of this error do not teach the Gospel of Good Tidings and do not believe that all men will come to the knowledge of Truth/Christ and be saved

Your daughter has bean called, she is know become aware of this Truth which is Christ and their is absolutely nothing in this entire universe that can come between this, just as there is absolutely nothing which can prevent GOD The Father dragging you to His Son.

It might be wise to take a neutral position for this moment.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Jesus, Santa Claus, trickster coyote are all mythical figures, certainly their stories are important and contain valuable lessons, but they are not, and never were, real.

I am sorry that you feel like you are losing your daughter, and I really applaud you for trying to learn more about her faith, even if it's only to have a common ground of understanding.

This particular statement of yours caught my attention. I'm curious, do you not believe Jesus existed as a historical figure? If that is true, I've not read it all, but you just might be interested in something like Lee Strobel's "The Case for Christ". Strobel was a journalist who was an atheist, and decided to research whether there was any evidence for the claims of Jesus being the son of God. Another book that might interest you is Letters from a Skeptic: A Son Wrestles with His Father's Questions about Christianity by Dr. Gregory A. Boyd. This one was written by a professor who became a Christian and exchanged letters with his father, who was an atheist, answering the father's questions about his son's faith. I have read most of that one, though it's been many years, but in your situation, it might interest you particularly.

It is very hard to answer some of your questions to your satisfaction, exactly as Talitha said.

As far as reconciling science and the Bible though, I will tell you it's not as difficult as you might suppose. My degrees were in the sciences - the first in biology with an emphasis in zoology, which of course relies heavily on evolution for explaining everything and even classification. I actually set out to develop a science curriculum that proved evolution, because frankly, everything I was taught was pretty much just "this is the way it is, memorize it" and with the frantic university pace and my preoccupation with my grades, I never questioned anything. A few years later, the lack of demonstrable evolution troubled me, and I set about to assemble a better curriculum (I can be a bit of a perfectionist in my work). That was quite an eye-opener, and learning experience. Let's just say that after quite a bit of investigation, which admittedly requires a level of intellectual honesty that is hard to arrive at when one has invested years of study and thousands of dollars in an education, I was more convinced of the possibility of the Bible than much of the science I'd studied so carefully.

I'm not sure what your science background is, and what particular problems you may have reconciling the Bible accounts with that. And to be honest, Christians take many paths to do that. I'm not claiming to have all the answers, but what I have learned with certainty is that what science knows, and claims to know, do not preclude the possibility of the Bible being true.

My heart goes out to you, because my daughter was taken from me (stolen by her father and kept from me for 4 years) and I have only recently gotten her back. The thought of a mother facing the loss of her daughter is particularly painful to me for that reason. Your concern is valid, if your daughter sees your unbelief as threatening to her faith.

There might be particular concerns depending on her particular beliefs too. Do you happen to know what kind of church she is attending? It could possibly make a difference.

I do wish you both all the best, and I hope something I've said can have helped in some way. I'll try to keep an eye on this thread (I rarely visit this particular forum), but feel free to send me a PM if ever you want. Again, I really applaud you for doing all you can to understand your daughter.

 

[moerunamida]

Thank you all who have responded, I wish I could say it has helped, but the truth is I just feel like I'm at a total road block to understanding what you mean. I just can't get over the hump of believing in something that has no evidence and cannot be observed and tested. Eternal life and supreme beings just don't fit into everything I understand about reality.

I think Talitha hit on exactly why I feel so frustrated when she said this: "When we find the love of God, it's like everything finally comes together and makes sense."

I have never felt this, I can't even comprehend what this might feel like, and I can't see any kind of logical path that lead me to feel that way. I have read and tried to understand part of the bible, but what I see in the bible is stories. Stories like the birdcage story. Certainly these stories are important and can help us lead better, more fulfilling lives, but they are still stories, just because a story says I can have everlasting life doesn't mean it can really happen.

CaryW, I know I feel God's love most when I am surrounded by friends and family or when good samaritan does a random act of kindness. A store clerk greeting me with a smile or someone walking by me down the street and greeting me with 'hello'. They all equate out to warmth, kindness, and love. I will be praying for your relationship with your daughter to stay strong

 

[Faulty]

Then I'll throw out a few questions:
What is the appeal of Christian faith? By this I mean, what is she getting out of it that she couldn't just get from a loving family and friends?

Through the sin of Adam, we are born in sin separated from God. Romans 5 states that sin came into the world through one man (Adam), and through one man (Jesus) came the ability to be in right standing with God again, through the forgiveness of our sins. Merely loving other people cannot do this.

How do Christians find a way to make science and religion compatible? To me, any belief in the supernatural defies the basic foundation of science, I don't get how you can make them computable.

Science is all about studying and proving the material. When one speaks of a God who is not matter, but created all things science studies, then that God transcends science, making science completely inadequate in the attempt to prove God. Science offers nothing in this area, nor could it ever. Saying science proves God is like saying you can tell the weight of a man by the color of his shoes.

I see a lot of talk about how "Jesus loves us" and "God gave his only son to save us from our sins", but I don't really understand what this means. Sure, it's nice to be loved and I feel gratitude for someone making a sacrifice for me, but why is that love more special than love from family and friends? How can someone else sacrifice themself for my sins? That just doesn't make sense, aren't I responsible for myself? It just don't understand why that's such a big deal.

The problem is that you are guilty and cannot make yourself perfect in the sight of God. That is His standard, for us to be perfect as He is perfect. That means you would have to be sinless and perfect from your conception until your death, and there's no extra credit and no grading on a curve. That was the purpose of the Law of Moses, to show us how we cannot measure up on our own.

God instituted the animal sacrificial system to show us the need for our sins to be covered by something, in this case by animals, that was sinless and blameless before God, in order to approach Him.

This was to prepare us for the coming of the ultimate sacrifice, Himself in the flesh of a man, who lived the perfect life we could not, then offered Himself as our sacrifice, and did away with the sin of those who come to Him.

You want to be responsible for your own actions? You came into this world in sin, through no action on your own, and your path to reconciliation with God was also done without any of your actions. Your action now is not "hey, it's my sin and I'll deal with it", but rather "hey, I sin because it's my nature, but I accept the actions of another who can take away my sin and change my nature".

You cannot make yourself right before God. Rather you should be seeking out what your daughter has found, forgiveness of sins, reconciliation with her Creator, and eternal life. I guarantee what she's found, she wants you to have as well.

 

[talitha]

I think you are exactly right. I've been reading some Christian blogs and reflecting on Christians I know, including my daughter, and this is the same conclusion I'm coming to; that what they are expiriancing is like a fourth dimension, not perceivable from our regular senses. If God spoke to me, I would become a believer, but he hasn't. In order to believe now, I would have to radically and completely change my understanding of reality. That's what I mean by saying science and religion are not comparable. In the world I live in there is no such thing as magic, ghosts, spirits or Gods. Jesus, Santa Claus, trickster coyote are all mythical figures, certainly their stories are important and contain valuable lessons, but they are not, and never were, real.

I hear you. I applaud your sincerity and intellectual honesty. If you are to encounter God, it needs to really be God and not someone else's idea of him, and not wishful thinking, and I really think it's good that you're not willing to just acquiesce in order to keep the peace.

God loves those who wrestle with him. He likes that REAL engagement. I trust your daughter is praying for you, that the Father will draw you. I stand in agreement with her. I want you to "see the fourth dimension"..... interestingly, Jesus addressed this when he said, "If a person is not born again, it is impossible for that one to see the Kingdom of God."