Help me understand my Christian daughter

[Harry3142]

CaryW-

I suspect that what you want to know is what Christianity teaches us. IOW, what do we believe?

We believe that there is a life beyond this temporal life we are traveling through now. We also believe that this afterlife is under the control of an omnipotent Being who has the authority to either grant or deny us access to this afterlife.

We also believe that this omnipotent Being has himself already accomplished what is necessary for our attaining this afterlife, and now offers it freely to anyone who chooses to accept it. So our achieving this afterlife is not based on our keeping certain laws and accepting certain dogmas, but instead is based on our putting our trust in his Son's sacrifice on our behalf:

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished - he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:19-26,NIV)

The righteousness that assures us of eternal life isn't our righteousness; it's God's. And because of what he himself accomplished through his Son, Jesus Christ, he now can offer that righteousness freely to all who wish to put our trust in his Son's sacrifice. But it is not to be seen as a righteousness which we either earned as if it were a salary, or purchased as if it were an asset. Instead, it is to be seen as a free gift given to us by a compassionate God.

I noticed that you didn't identify which denomination your daughter became a member of. Some are rather 'out there', so if you have any questions or concerns whatsoever, contact us immediately. As you can probably tell already, among us we have years of experience in various churches as our 'resume'.

 

[seashale76]

CaryW: First of all, welcome to CF. You sound like a good mother who is just concerned about her daughter.

What is the appeal of Christian faith? By this I mean, what is she getting out of it that she couldn't just get from a loving family and friends?

Good question. I can only answer from my own experience. I was raised with faith, then left, and then came back after a time, so my perspective is going to be different from someone who was raised in no faith or never had a crisis of faith. I had a lot of anger and depression when I was going it without faith. Essentially, I had an encounter of the presence of God, which convinced me that God is real. It is my understanding that I needed to repent, and entering the Church and partaking of the sacraments has been necessary for me to continue on the path that I know I need to be on. While loving family and friends are wonderful and good things, there is more that we need on a spiritual level. Can I truly express to anyone else that Christ is in the Eucharist and I’ve experienced this? The absolute peace I experience when I partake? Nothing I ever say to anyone could ever make them understand what I’m talking about. These things must be experienced.

How do Christians find a way to make science and religion compatible? To me, any belief in the supernatural defies the basic foundation of science, I don't get how you can make them computable.

I don’t see how they’re incompatible. For example, I believe in evolution because it is observable, however, there is nothing I’ve come across that makes me think my faith in Christ is in vain either. All of creation attests to the glory of God.

I see a lot of talk about how "Jesus loves us" and "God gave his only son to save us from our sins", but I don't really understand what this means. Sure, it's nice to be loved and I feel gratitude for someone making a sacrifice for me, but why is that love more special than love from family and friends? How can someone else sacrifice themself for my sins? That just doesn't make sense, aren't I responsible for myself? It just don't understand why that's such a big deal.

You’re essentially asking why all of this is important, so I guess a synopsis (of sorts) might be helpful for you to have a better understanding of the Christian faith. I’m Orthodox, so our views do differ from Evangelicals especially, but this type of Christianity is proven to have Apostolic origins. Even still, I’m not speaking for Orthodoxy (because I could actually be wrong about something Orthodoxy teaches though I’m fairly certain I’m generally on the mark with my explanations).

God created people to commune with Him. People are not born depraved. God created people with the capacity for free will. Sin is missing the mark- which is living in accordance to God's will. Sin can be voluntary and involuntary, and one can commit sin in knowledge and in ignorance. People were created to commune with God and attain theosis/salvation. In Orthodoxy- we believe that people were not created in this final state of theosis. To go against what they were told by their Creator was a choice they had and did make- the consequence being that death entered the world.

In the Orthodox Church- we apply something calling apophatic theology (negative theology)- to describe God by saying what God isn't instead of what God is. We believe that God's essence is unknowable and ineffable. However, we can participate in God's energies.

Examples:
No one has seen or can see God (John 1:18).
He lives in unapproachable light (1 Tim. 6:16).
His ways are unsearchable and unfathomable (Job 11:7-8; Romans 11:33-36).

Because of this- in order for us to participate in the energies of God/attain salvation (also called theosis)- we need Christ (very God of very God- both fully God and fully man). We can know God via the person of Christ. It is a pious opinion that even had sin not entered the world, we still would have need of Christ. God is love and desires all to come to repentence and to be united with Him.

We look at Christ's work on the cross as being an event that is outside of time. Salvation happened in the past. Via the incarnation (specifically the hypostatic union), it became possible for us to attain salvation (theosis). To one in the Church (a Christian), we are being saved. If we persevere, we will be saved in the future. Those in the Church are part of the body of Christ and have the Holy Trinity living in them. Through the life of the Church, the Holy Mysteries (sacraments), and the power of the Holy Spirit, we are empowered to do good works.

Anyone living out their life in the Church will be changed/transfigured. This is only possible through the life, death, and resurrection of Christ. We must daily pick up our cross and follow Him. Christ’s suffering death on the cross and resurrection made it possible for us to now have a way through suffering and a way to reconcile ourselves to God (abolishing sin and death) through his human nature. Christ’s ultimate act of suffering love gives us His saving companionship and grace. We can literally be baptized into Christ as part of His body (Church/Israel). Through our life in the Church, the ultimate hospital for sinners, we hope to one day attain salvation (theosis) and participate in the divine energies of God.

Christ went to sheol/hades (sometimes wrongly translated as hell as in the KJV) for three days and preached to those there, raising them from the dead, and reconciling people to God (abolishing sin). Plus, it wasn't too late for Adam and Eve- even then. In the icon of the Resurrection- Christ is depicted trampling the gates of Hades and lifting Adam and Eve from their graves. Christ destroyed death. It is even mentioned in the New Testament how after the Resurrection- many of the righteous dead were resurrected and appeared to many people. Like Adam, we are dead in our sins, but through Christ (the New Adam) we are brought to life (where we were once dead in our sins).

The word hell itself has often been translated in the KJV as meaning hades/sheol and gehenna. However- it isn't accurate.

Sheol = Hades = the grave
Gehenna = The lake of fire
Hades =/= Gehenna

In Deuteronomy 4:24 and in Hebrews 12:29 it says, 'for God is a consuming fire.' Gehenna was a literal place- a valley outside of Jerusalem- that I believe had been known for pagan sacrifices of children via burning. It was a well-known allusion to suffering that everyone would have been familiar with. In the New Testament any mention of experiencing Gehenna is referenced as suffering, unquenchable fire, and destruction. It wasn't speaking of being literally at the place of Gehenna- but more of the state one could find himself/herself in.

So- this is what we speak of when we talk about hell. However- one who finds himself/herself in Gehenna will be experiencing a state of being and not a literal place. In fact, hell and heaven are two different experiences of the same thing- which is being in the presence of God. This is even alluded to in the Old Testament with the three youths in the fiery furnace. They were able to joyfully walk around in the same fire which killed others.

God isn't changing for anyone. We must change for God and it must be our choice to do so. The suffering one experiences is entirely self-inflicted.

This used to be on wikipedia at one time, but I can't seem to find it anymore:

"For many ancient Christians, Hell was the same "place" as Heaven: living in the presence of God and directly experiencing God's love. Whether this was experienced as pleasure or torment depended on one's disposition towards God. St. Isaac of Syria wrote in Mystic Treatises: "... those who find themselves in Hell will be chastised by the scourge of love. How cruel and bitter this torment of love will be! For those who understand that they have sinned against love, undergo greater suffering than those produced by the most fearful tortures. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart, which has sinned against love, is more piercing than any other pain. It is not right to say that the sinners in Hell are deprived of the love of God ... But love acts in two ways, as suffering of the reproved, and as joy in the blessed!" This ancient view is still the doctrine of the Eastern Orthodox Church."

I see the whole kit and caboodle as spiritual evolution. This is only possible through Christ.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Seashale,

Your post raised some questions I would like to ask, if you don't mind, but I don't wish to derail the OP's thread.

Could you suggest an appropriate forum in which to ask questions, and more importantly, would you mind if I pasted parts of your post in order to ask?

I will certainly respect your wishes if you say no. I fully intend to be respectful and really want to understand your position better on a few minor points, but I wouldn't do it without your permission because I don't want to appear to be critical, argumentative, or nit-picking in any way. I should also tell you that while I don't align myself with any particular denomination, the majority of my beliefs would fall in line with evangelical churches, so I don't want to catch you off guard.

Regardless of your decision, that was a very interesting and thought-provoking synopsis.

Thank you!

 

[bling]

I think you are exactly right. I've been reading some Christian blogs and reflecting on Christians I know, including my daughter, and this is the same conclusion I'm coming to; that what they are expiriancing is like a fourth dimension, not perceivable from our regular senses. If God spoke to me, I would become a believer, but he hasn't. In order to believe now, I would have to radically and completely change my understanding of reality. That's what I mean by saying science and religion are not comparable. In the world I live in there is no such thing as magic, ghosts, spirits or Gods. Jesus, Santa Claus, trickster coyote are all mythical figures, certainly their stories are important and contain valuable lessons, but they are not, and never were, real.

I love your sincerity, concern and honesty.

Thank you for coming and challenging us.

You say: “If God spoke to me, I would become a believer”, but that is really not a “believe” in God (faith), but “knowledge” of God’s existence. A “faith” or trust in God is what we all need. A believe in a Benevolent Creator takes very little “faith” and any mature adult can do it, but that also means entering into a humbling activity, since “faith” in a Benevolent Creator is something the lowliest mature adult on earth can easily do.

Your Daughter’s “faith” in a Benevolent Creator, has given you some reason to want to possible have this same trust, but that is a very shallow need. Now if you see something (Godly type Love) being expressed by your daughter and come to desire a similar Love than that can drive you to become a Christian.

As far as needing “evidence” for the Christian God, that has more to do with acceptance of the evidence that is all around you especially all living things. Evolution does not explain chemicals becoming living organism and there is no “scientific” explanation other than the random alternative.
Since something does not come from nothing, than something has always existed and it is not imaginable that intelligence (even the intelligence humans have) would come from just matter and energy.

So what are you putting your “faith” in to explain the beginning of life (science does not have a theory yet, only some very weak hypothesis)?

 

[CaryW]

This movie, one of my favorites, amounts to a very entertaining dramatized course in apologetics. Perhaps it will give some insight.

I watched this, and I have to say, it really doesn't answer anything for me, but it does help me understand one of the things I fear. Certainly part of what I'm struggling with right now is empty nest syndrome. I love my kids more than anything in the world, so one of my greatest fears is that they don't love me back. At one point in this movie, Jesus seemed to be saying that love between family can never be enough, only love of God can be perfect. That just seems so sad to me. I fear that my daughter's love of God means that she loves me, and her family, less. This scripture that has quoted a few times on this thread, Luke12:51-53, doesn't make me feel any better. Religion is divisive. I have seem many cases where it has ripped families apart, and I don't want that to happen to my family.

 

[CaryW]

This particular statement of yours caught my attention. I'm curious, do you not believe Jesus existed as a historical figure?

I believe that Jesus as he is described in the bible is a mythical figure, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't based on a real person, or possibly a number of different real people. I'm not well versed in history, so that is something I should make an effort to learn more about. Thank you for the suggestions.

I think what it all boils down to, is that I don't believe in magic. Certainly a historical Jesus may have really existed, but if he really "rose from the dead" then there must be a non-magical explanation, like he was actually just in a coma, and not really dead. It's the same conflict I see between science and religion. Certainly science can't explain everything, but claiming something just needs to be accepted on faith or cannot be explained, goes against the scientific process. Until there is evidence for God, He just doesn't fit into the scientific view of the real world. To accept God, I would have to completely and radically change my view of the real world.

 

[CaryW]

I love your sincerity, concern and honesty.

Thank you for coming and challenging us.

You say: “If God spoke to me, I would become a believer”, but that is really not a “believe” in God (faith), but “knowledge” of God’s existence. A “faith” or trust in God is what we all need. A believe in a Benevolent Creator takes very little “faith” and any mature adult can do it, but that also means entering into a humbling activity, since “faith” in a Benevolent Creator is something the lowliest mature adult on earth can easily do.

Your Daughter’s “faith” in a Benevolent Creator, has given you some reason to want to possible have this same trust, but that is a very shallow need. Now if you see something (Godly type Love) being expressed by your daughter and come to desire a similar Love than that can drive you to become a Christian.

As far as needing “evidence” for the Christian God, that has more to do with acceptance of the evidence that is all around you especially all living things. Evolution does not explain chemicals becoming living organism and there is no “scientific” explanation other than the random alternative.
Since something does not come from nothing, than something has always existed and it is not imaginable that intelligence (even the intelligence humans have) would come from just matter and energy.

So what are you putting your “faith” in to explain the beginning of life (science does not have a theory yet, only some very weak hypothesis)?

Science is a process, it may never explain everything. The origins of life are just one of thousands and thousands of things that have not yet been fully understood. And, when you put it that way, nothing is ever fully understood, scientists are constantly refining our understanding of the world as new theories are tested and new evidence is discovered. I don't really see why the mysteries surrounding the origins of life should be enough to prove God's existence, there are plenty of other unexplained phenomena in the universe. Saying "God did it" requires a lot more faith than saying "I don't know, yet" or even just, "I don't know".

 

[~Anastasia~]

Thank you for the reply.

I certainly understand your feelings. Especially after having lost her once, as I mentioned before, the thought of losing my daughter is especially painful.

And I can't know what would happen. There are cases where families divide. However, God IS love, and it also sometimes happens (often in fact) that His love in a person makes them much more able to love others. I have seen people grow more compassionate, patient, understanding, and loving to others, including those who don't share their faith. I hope that is the experience you have with your daughter.

Because you are seeking to learn more about her faith, for her sake, I think she is less likely to see your unbelief as threatening to her faith.

You know, she is very likely to want to share with you what she's found.

As far as loving God more than family, yes, the Bible tells us that. It's not about being actually UNloving to your family though, but more that we ought to love God completely. I understand how you might feel her love for you diminishes in that case, as if her love could be represented by a pitcher full of liquid, and pouring into someone else's glass means she has less to pour into yours. But it's really more like God Himself continually refills her pitcher, so she can continue pouring out love. I'm speaking metaphorically of course, but we really do experience it that way.

As far as believing in "magic" ... Well I guess the word "magic" just has certain connotations to me. I don't believe in magic either. I'm not sure you'd feel any differently about the word "miracle" but I think we view that word differently, so that may be why we use it.

Again, I really commend you for wanting to learn more about your daughter's faith.

Oh, and I almost forgot, but I know it's been said. I'm not pressing if you don't want to share, but the denomination she's learning from really can make a difference, if you want to share.

All the best to you both.

 

[CaryW]

CaryW: First of all, welcome to CF. You sound like a good mother who is just concerned about her daughter.

Good question. I can only answer from my own experience. I was raised with faith, then left, and then came back after a time, so my perspective is going to be different from someone who was raised in no faith or never had a crisis of faith. I had a lot of anger and depression when I was going it without faith. Essentially, I had an encounter of the presence of God, which convinced me that God is real. It is my understanding that I needed to repent, and entering the Church and partaking of the sacraments has been necessary for me to continue on the path that I know I need to be on. While loving family and friends are wonderful and good things, there is more that we need on a spiritual level. Can I truly express to anyone else that Christ is in the Eucharist and I’ve experienced this? The absolute peace I experience when I partake? Nothing I ever say to anyone could ever make them understand what I’m talking about. These things must be experienced.

This idea of feeling the presence of God, or of just knowing that God exists, comes up over and over again, and I can honestly say, I have never felt it. I'm nearly 50 years old and there have been plenty of times in my life when God could have spoken to me, times when I actively sought out faith and religion, the time I rolled my car into a ditch, times of depression and great sorrow, times when I felt great joy, times when I felt at peace with the world and expirianced awe and wonder at the amazing world we live in, but God never spoke too me, I never felt His presence. What am I to conclude from that? It seems to me that there are only two explanations, either He doesn't exist, or He doesn't want me. The first explanation makes more sense to me, but if I start with the assumption that God exist, the second seems logical because there are millions of other people in the world, pretty much everyone who's not Christian, that He appears to not want either.

 

[talitha]

Oh, Cary, he wants everyone. It sounds like you see Christianity as something a person is born with, but it actually involves a decision. "Christianity" is not in the basic essence a "world view". It's a relationship with God, who bridged the gap between himself and people by actually becoming one of us.

I know that's hard to take in, as it is hard from the outside to see the difference between magic and miracles. Suffice it to say that there is a part of reality that you are not taking into consideration, and actually love is part of that reality. What science can explain love? Love is a miracle that supersedes the norm of self first.

When you say that you cannot see how God fits into your view of the real world, to me it sounds like someone saying that an artist doesn't fit into my view of a real work of art. I'm not here to argue origins - just to talk about perspectives. I hope you can have that kind of dialogue with your daughter as today I go to meet an atheist friend and have that dialogue with her.

oops gotta fly
tal

 

[dhh712]

What science can explain love?

Actually, I have the understanding that science does have it's explanation of love. You may want to ask an scientific atheist (or theist who has more of a background in that than I do). From what I can remember though, it has it's basis in chemicals which trigger feelings which are developed in the amygdala, the emotional seat of our brain (it also involves the hypothalamus as well).

 

[Harry3142]

CaryW-

There are some ultraliberal theologians who have claimed that Jesus Christ didn't do what Scripture teaches us. They claim that the gospels weren't written until long after the apostles and disciples who actually knew Jesus were long dead, and were compiled from stories and legends which had grown up over the decades since those deaths.

However, the physical evidence indicates that at least 3 of the 4 gospels were already completed by 62 AD. Those are what we call 'the synoptic gospels' (Matthew, Mark and Luke). As well, the book which later became Acts of the Apostles had already been completed by that time. The Gospel of St. John was written only a few years later. So instead of measuring the timeline in decades between the events of Jesus' life and their being written down, it should be measured in only a few years.

Here are two websites which can give you further information on this timeline:

The Muratorian Fragment

CADRE-Dating the New Testament

The Muratorian Fragment is itself dated to 170 AD, and lists the books already compiled into what we now call 'The New Testament'. It also tells us that the three synoptic gospels, as well as Acts, had already been written prior to St. Paul's being released from his first imprisonment and journeying to Spain. Since he was executed under Nero's reign of terror against the Christians, which lasted from 64 to 67 AD, this indicates that those gospels (and Acts) were completed no later than 62 AD.

 

[bling]

Science is a process, it may never explain everything. The origins of life are just one of thousands and thousands of things that have not yet been fully understood. And, when you put it that way, nothing is ever fully understood, scientists are constantly refining our understanding of the world as new theories are tested and new evidence is discovered. I don't really see why the mysteries surrounding the origins of life should be enough to prove God's existence, there are plenty of other unexplained phenomena in the universe. Saying "God did it" requires a lot more faith than saying "I don't know, yet" or even just, "I don't know".

I have a master degree in Chemistry and one of the truths I have seen is the fact: “The more we know the more we realize we do not know.” So if the universe is virtually infinitely complex than nothing “random” could make it and would dictate a God of infinite complexity, that is a philosophical way of “proofing” the existence of a god.

When you say: “I don’t know”, your life expresses your assumptions, most of the time people assume there is no God and live their life with that assumption, so it is more like “I do not know nor do I care”.

The “caring” about God’s existence is much more important, than believing in His existence, since just believing with little caring would be rude, so God would prefer you not even know than know and not care.

If you desire to really know out of a strong need for God’s help (and we all need God’s help) to the point of a humble willingness to accept God’s help, God will jump in and help you.

Your “faith” in science is commendable, but it may not be based on a lot of knowledge about science. Life has been in front of man from the beginning and yes we have learned more about how it works, but we also have learned much more about what we do not know of “how it works”.

 

[paul1149]

I watched this, and I have to say, it really doesn't answer anything for me, but it does help me understand one of the things I fear. Certainly part of what I'm struggling with right now is empty nest syndrome. I love my kids more than anything in the world, so one of my greatest fears is that they don't love me back. At one point in this movie, Jesus seemed to be saying that love between family can never be enough, only love of God can be perfect. That just seems so sad to me. I fear that my daughter's love of God means that she loves me, and her family, less. This scripture that has quoted a few times on this thread, Luke12:51-53, doesn't make me feel any better. Religion is divisive. I have seem many cases where it has ripped families apart, and I don't want that to happen to my family.

Hi Cary,

"Religion divides" is only part of the picture. "Faith works through love", the Bible says, and "love is the perfect bond of unity". When we come to the Lord we join with Him. And then we find we can rightly join with others. If your daughter has met perfect Love and perfect Authority, her capacity to love will increase, not decrease. She will not love you less, she will be enabled to love you better. Yes, there are divisions, and some of them are unavoidable. But the normal state of the Christian is typified by instructions such as, "as much as it depends on you, be at peace with all men", and "respect everyone".

There is the possibility that immaturity can get in the way, though. Sometimes when we first come to the Lord we are "blinded by the Light". In our focus on Him we think it necessary to walk away from the things that have gone before. This is something that needs to be worked out over time. There are seasons for everything. And sometimes it may well be necessary to walk away; it's not always immaturity at play.

One other thought, regarding you saying you have never heard God's voice. I have heard His voice, many times, and yet one of the most meaningful things He ever showed me was conveyed by His silence. It was something quintessentially deep that He had to let me fully discover for myself, so He just waited silently in the background for me to put 2 and 2 together. That lesson was the turning point of my life.

Well, one last thought. In the brilliant summation Paul Newman gives at the end of the movie, The Verdict, he tells the jury that in the face of a dark uncaring world they should "act like they had faith" even when they were unsure. It might be something you should consider. "How would this look like if I actually believed God existed and cared about me? What would He say and what would He expect me to do?" At the very least, it may help you relate to what your daughter is experiencing.

 

[cerette]

Why do I get the feeling you are in fact not the mother of a college kid, but rather another person who uses multiple nicknames on these forums, trying to attack the "simple" faith of Christians?

 

[Rawtheran]

Some quick background: I was raised with only minimal religion, raised my own two kids without religion, and now consider myself an atheist. My daughter, now a college junior, started attending Christian churches when she started college and now considers herself a Christian, to the extent that she got baptized last fall and is now engaged to her Christian boyfriend. I desperately want to talk to her about her religious beliefs and understand what she's getting out of it, but I fear she's already pulling away for her family and the last thing I want to do is push her away even more. So I've come here to get some of my questions answered and gain some understanding of her beliefs.

Then I'll throw out a few questions:
What is the appeal of Christian faith? By this I mean, what is she getting out of it that she couldn't just get from a loving family and friends?

How do Christians find a way to make science and religion compatible? To me, any belief in the supernatural defies the basic foundation of science, I don't get how you can make them computable.

I see a lot of talk about how "Jesus loves us" and "God gave his only son to save us from our sins", but I don't really understand what this means. Sure, it's nice to be loved and I feel gratitude for someone making a sacrifice for me, but why is that love more special than love from family and friends? How can someone else sacrifice themself for my sins? That just doesn't make sense, aren't I responsible for myself? It just don't understand why that's such a big deal.

Thanks for listening! I hope to start a dialogue and post more questions as they come up

My friend what your daughter is experiencing is the love that God has for her, and the love that people have for each other in Christ Jesus. Well if anything when it comes to science I look at how science is compatible with what God says, and what he does since afterall God is the creator of the natural world, and I consider science the study of the Earth, and the stars that he created. Afterall how could the Universe have just created itself? Science cannot explain this. Also the reason that science cannot comprehend the supernatural is because Science is the study of the physical world, not the spiritual world which surrounds the physical.

While you do have free will which God gives to everyone, that doesn't mean that you have to take a humanistic approach. God cared for all people which is why he sent his son Jesus to die for us all on the Cross, and he took upon himself every wrong deed you've ever done in your life and paid for it so you can be free from sin, and you don't have to pay for your sins yourself. Jesus also went to the cross because he loved you. His fruits or actions speak far louder then his words, and as Christians we try to emulate what type of life Jesus lead. Please also understand that your daughter loves you, and is probably praying for you and your family to know Jesus.

 

[abacabb3]

God willing, your daughter can be a testimony of God's grace to you!

I am very impressed, and pleased, by your loving attitude towards your daughter and your desire to know more about her.

Now, to answer a few questions as best I can:

What is the appeal of Christian faith?

Personally, I believe the Christian faith to be "foolish." It is scientifically and logically implausible. So, it is not that it appeals to me personally. However, it is my belief that God in His mercy has revealed a truth greater than that I can study or learn empirically. I started reading the Bible and accepting its truth was from a source greater than the empirical realm.

Then, it all starts to click and make sense. "Human nature" makes sense when you understand a concept of sin. The ideas of morality and justice in my view only truly exist in the way that in our guts know they exist when they have a source and immovable authority, which is obviously in God. When you understand this, then sin makes sense. When sin makes sense, then you know you want to be right and obedient with God, in order to be close to him. Just like we want to obedient to our natural parents, our spouse and our friends.

Christianity, unlike every other religion, teaches that God provides a means to make us right with Him. His Son makes forgiveness possible and His Spirit turns us into believers.

By this I mean, what is she getting out of it that she couldn't just get from a loving family and friends?

Family and friends cannot answer the question, "What's the meaning of life?" Because, materialistic philosophy (where everything can be reduced to matter and energy) teaches there is no meaning, no soul, no nothing. Consciousness is merely a biochemical illusion. So, if you want a meaning in life, atheism does not offer it.

How do Christians find a way to make science and religion compatible? To me, any belief in the supernatural defies the basic foundation of science, I don't get how you can make them computable.

I don't, because materialist philosophy cannot jive with an idealist philosophy. Believe it or not, for most of human history materialist philosophy was almost something of a joke. For every Aristotle and Epicurus was a billion of other big names (Plato, Plotinus, Ibn Rushd, Ghazali, Aquinas, Descartes, etc.) that ultimately beleived that there are immaterial truisms, an idealist worldview. Atheism pretends to be the "logical choice," but inherent in its worldview is a philosophical doctrine of materialism, which quite frankly I am not sold on.

 

[Harry3142]

CaryW-

Rather than religion's being divisive, it's actually quite unifying. I worked with Jews and Muslims for years prior to my retiring, and they expected me to be an observant Christian. It identified me as someone it was safe to be around. Their concern wasn't with people who worshiped God in a different manner than they did; it was with those who refused to recognize that there is a Supreme Being to whom we must all answer for our behavior, irregardless of our particular religion.

 

[CaryW]

Why do I get the feeling you are in fact not the mother of a college kid, but rather another person who uses multiple nicknames on these forums, trying to attack the "simple" faith of Christians?

This. This is exactly why I'm afraid to talk to my daughter about her religion. This is exactly why I've turned to an anonymous forum instead of bringing my questions to my Christian friends and co-workers. Because far to often any questioning of religious beliefs is seen as attacks. I certainly did not mean to attack your faith and I apologize if I came across that way.

There is no way I can prove to you that I am who I say I am, you will have to believe me on faith alone. I will tell you that I have not posted to this forum under any other name. This is a Christian forum, so out of respect for the creators of this forum and to avoid breaking any of the rules they have laid down, I will not post comments outside of this thread, which is specifically geared towards non-Christians. It's up to you to decide if you believe me or not.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Why do I get the feeling you are in fact not the mother of a college kid, but rather another person who uses multiple nicknames on these forums, trying to attack the "simple" faith of Christians?

Well, I feel like I'm on the outside looking in. I'm new here, so I don't know. I just tend to give people the benefit of the doubt.

But ... I will say that I see so much open attacking and snide comments and so on on this site, that NOTHING I saw in this thread raised any alarm for me at all.

I also try to keep in mind, even if I'm wrong on some thread and the person is not sincere, who knows if someone else won't read it who has a similar situation? You never know.