Help me - I think I'm being legalistic

[HTacianas]

Last Wednesday or so I got the sudden hankering to sacrifice a few children to Moloch. It was a passing thought that's gone now so I'm sure I'll be okay.

But it got me thinking. If I don't sacrifice a few kids to Moloch every now and then, am I being legalistic? Am I relying on myself for my salvation?

 

[Tree of Life]

Legalism and obedience are two different things.

The Scriptures certainly call us to be obedient to God. But legalism is not true obedience at all. Legalism is a strict adherence to the external requirements of the law while ignoring the internal requirements. It is a believing that because we have not murdered anyone, we have therefore obeyed God's command not to murder - even if we have hatred in our hearts. It is a blindness to the fact that the law was not given to us as a means of salvation, but in order to expose our sin and our need for grace and salvation.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Last Wednesday or so I got the sudden hankering to sacrifice a few children to Moloch. It was a passing thought that's gone now so I'm sure I'll be okay.

But it got me thinking. If I don't sacrifice a few kids to Moloch every now and then, am I being legalistic? Am I relying on myself for my salvation?

In a funny way you put your finger on some of the radical ends of some Protestant views of Soteriology that I've been meaning to discuss myself. Basically some people are so far off the rails on the issue of "works" that true repentance can actually fall into that category!

 

[RDKirk]

Legalism and obedience are two different things.

The Scriptures certainly call us to be obedient to God. But legalism is not true obedience at all. Legalism is a strict adherence to the external requirements of the law while ignoring the internal requirements. It is a believing that because we have not murdered anyone, we have therefore obeyed God's command not to murder - even if we have hatred in our hearts. It is a blindness to the fact that the law was not given to us as a means of salvation, but in order to expose our sin and our need for grace and salvation.

Additionally, legalism includes the belief that following the external requirements of the law obligates God to pay eternal life for obedience. As Paul defines such work (for the sake of this particular argument):

Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. -- Romans 4:4

The legalist says in his heart, "God, I performed all the correct actions, therefore you owe me eternal life."

 

[Monk Brendan]

Last Wednesday or so I got the sudden hankering to sacrifice a few children to Moloch. It was a passing thought that's gone now so I'm sure I'll be okay.

But it got me thinking. If I don't sacrifice a few kids to Moloch every now and then, am I being legalistic? Am I relying on myself for my salvation?

No, but you might be relying on Moloch.

 

[com7fy8]

If I don't sacrifice a few kids to Moloch every now and then, am I being legalistic? Am I relying on myself for my salvation?

I guess I could be. But it can be good that I have not sacrificed any kids to Moloch . . . even if I'm being self-righteous about the fact that I'm not. What is better is how we love our children, in spite of how they might tempt us to sacrifice them to Moloch > keep with good example, including how we relate with our spouses >

"Husbands, love your wives and do not be bitter toward them." (Colossians 3:19)

Yes, a husband at times might also feel like doing a free-will offering of his wife, but love works better and is more creative; and any wife can help a guy find out how to love!

"Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)

So, what I need is to submit to God, and discover what He has me doing, and not only measure by if I am keeping rules or not. Be sacrificed to love and how our Father rules us in His peace, no time out, please from submitting to how You rule us in Your peace.

 

[icxn]

Moloch tropologically stands for voluptuousness. So if you have indulged in sensual pleasures (who hasn't?), in all likelihood you have indeed sacrificed your modesty and purity, children of your soul, to Moloch.

 

[FireDragon76]

Legalism and obedience are two different things.

The Scriptures certainly call us to be obedient to God. But legalism is not true obedience at all. Legalism is a strict adherence to the external requirements of the law while ignoring the internal requirements. It is a believing that because we have not murdered anyone, we have therefore obeyed God's command not to murder - even if we have hatred in our hearts. It is a blindness to the fact that the law was not given to us as a means of salvation, but in order to expose our sin and our need for grace and salvation.

Are you sure you are not a Lutheran?

 

[FireDragon76]

In a funny way you put your finger on some of the radical ends of some Protestant views of Soteriology that I've been meaning to discuss myself. Basically some people are so far off the rails on the issue of "works" that true repentance can actually fall into that category!

It can, if it's like what my pastor calls "earning your repentance". True repentance is aimed at transcending the human curved in on self, whether it is manifest as pride or despair.

As Philip Melancthon rightly said, the law always condemns. That's what it does. It drives us to the grace and mercy of God. Even in its third use, as Clement of Rome and Luther pointed out, even our best works do not contribute to justification before God. Indeed, Luther said it would always be safer to consider them mortal sins, if they are in doubt.

FWIW, "earning your repentance" is sort of like an "imperfect contrition" in Catholicism, it's feeling bad because you got caught sinning, it misses the greater aim of love, so you feel like maybe if you respond in some appropriate way, then maybe you can feel a little pride in being repentant. It's worthless as far as we are concerned. It's a good way to become a moralist or legalist, though- outward conformity to religion, appropriating all the piety and religious affectations, but no inner regeneration.

 

[Tree of Life]

Are you sure you are not a Lutheran?

I'm quite sure. But I'm not sure that Lutherans and Reformed have a substantial disagreement on the nature of the Law.

 

[FireDragon76]

Last Wednesday or so I got the sudden hankering to sacrifice a few children to Moloch. It was a passing thought that's gone now so I'm sure I'll be okay.

But it got me thinking. If I don't sacrifice a few kids to Moloch every now and then, am I being legalistic? Am I relying on myself for my salvation?

The whole point of our ethics is not "you shouldn't sacrifice kids because it's illegal", but the deeper humanistic theme: human persons have inherent rights and dignity. Real Christian ethics is ultimately focused on persons, not rules. We should love what God loves. The Law is merely a guide to that, it's not some kind of ladder to my own personal righteousness.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

It can, if it's like what my pastor calls "earning your repentance".

I blogged a bit on this topic on Facebook

Preaching on Pelagianism (the notion that you can "earn your Salvation")

I think for most of Christianity, especially the Protestant side, sermons on "earning your salvation", are 95% Obsolete or redundant. I'm sure there still is a place for this sort of thing, but its for catechism classes, talking to folks who have been raised outside of Christianity etc. But for most people, who have spent any time in church whatsoever they have absorbed this message since the early days of childhood Sunday school. But since this sort of message was hot during the beginning of the Reformation I think it tends to stick around as a go to subject to preach on especially when your out of ideas. The problem with this is, our society has greatly changed since that time. Rather than believing we can earn salvation, people today are much more likely to believe they are innately good and on the path to Heaven (Humanism), or they may entertaining Agnostic or Atheistic doubts or ideas concerning whether or not their is a God.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Examining Calvinism: Augustine, Manichaeism and the Good

 

[Halbhh]

The whole point of our ethics is not "you shouldn't sacrifice kids because it's illegal", but the deeper humanistic theme: human persons have inherent rights and dignity. Real Christian ethics is ultimately focused on persons, not rules. We should love what God loves. The Law is merely a guide to that, it's not some kind of ladder to my own personal righteousness.

Good point. Keeping with the given example of whether or not we truly love our kids (as we may best only by relying on Christ), the last chapter of the Old Testament connected right into the first chapter of the Gospel of Luke, that our hearts be truly turned towards our children.

 

[FireDragon76]

I disagree that pelagianism and especially semi-pelagianism are no longer problems.

For many people, frankly, the catholic and orthodox approaches are inadequate, even harmful, because they fail to appreciate how much existential threats can drive people to despair. Many, many people never darken a church door because they are already condemned in their minds. That's why I think the Reformation is not finished, and really never will be until the appearance of our Lord again. The religion of natural man, the opinio legis, is alive and well. It exists all around us, not just in churches but in society at large. That is why even Christians need to hear the Gospel as Good News.

Rod Rosenblatt, a conservative Lutheran, has actually written a great deal about this phenomenon. People like this, people crushed by the Church or by perceived inadequacies, tend to shy away from religion altogether.

 

[Jonaitis]

Legalism is, by definition, anything that adds to the saving grace of the gospel on the part of man.

 

[Jonaitis]

Last Wednesday or so I got the sudden hankering to sacrifice a few children to Moloch. It was a passing thought that's gone now so I'm sure I'll be okay.

But it got me thinking. If I don't sacrifice a few kids to Moloch every now and then, am I being legalistic? Am I relying on myself for my salvation?

Sick post, I wouldn't even laugh at it.

 

[HTacianas]

Sick post, I wouldn't even laugh at it.

Funny. That's the way I feel about the post that inspired it.

How to recover yourself from Legalism pt 1.

 

[FireDragon76]

"If the Ten Commandments were not impossible enough, the preaching of Christian behavior, of Christian ethics, of Christian living, can drive a professing Christian into despairing unbelief. Not happy unbelief — tragic, despairing, sad unbelief. "

The Gospel Is for the Broken by Rod Rosenbladt

 

[Jonaitis]

Funny. That's the way I feel about the post that inspired it.

How to recover yourself from Legalism pt 1.

He seems to make some good points (maybe not in everything), you seem to be making the contrary.