Help I want be saved

[PaulAckermann]

Well prety much every thing. I dont believe the universe was created 6000-8000 years ago. I dont believe the whole universe was made only for humans . I dont believe in original sin or that we started out in a garden and ate a magic fruit and became sinners. I dont believe the earth is flat lol. I dont believe a omnipotent all loving all knowing god is possible in this reality. I dont believe there is such thing as perfect or absolute morality. I dont believe any one deserves infinite punishment for finite sins. I dont believe that a creator would write a errant confusing and contradictory book as his only way of having a relationship with us. I dont believe in stoning nonbelievers, homosexuals, children who curse at their parents, women who arent virgins before they are married etc. I dont believe the universe came from a omnimax being who just was. need I say more? I dont believe any of it.

Most of what you say I do not believe in either. There is a difference between what the the Bible says and how indiviuals interpreted the Bible. You need to be able to know the difference.

Some Christians take the first three chapters in the Bible literally. Some don't, some take it as a parable, just as Jesus taught in parables. So some of your rejection of the Bible is merely a rejection of a certain interpretation of the Bible.

But some of your beliefs are self-contradictory. For instance, you say there are no absolutes. But you have to ask yourself this - is this statement that you believe an absolute statement. It is an absolute truism that there are no absolutes. If your reponse is no, then you can never rule out the possibility of there being absaolutes. If your response is yes, you know ansolutely that there are no absolutes, then you just proved that absolutes do exist. So if you are right, that there are no no absolutes, you would be wrong, in stating that there are no absolutes. This is an absurd self-contraction.

Also, as a Catholic, I agree that the Bible is not God's only revelation. Not that I believe that there are contradictions in the Bible, but the Bible is too complicated for it to be God's only source of revelation. I can understand how you may think that there contradictions, because the Bible is very complicated to understand. There must be a living interpreter which guides us into the correct interpretation of the Bible. This is the Magisterium of the Catholic Church.

 

[MikeMcK]

Thank you for being concerned about me. Your wrong about that, it does contradict science. One example is the bible trys to say the world is 6000-9000 years old and we know that the earth and the universe is billions of years old.

Where does the Bible say this?

Look it up theres a ton of them.

Then it shouldn't be that hard for you to list some.

The whole bible disturbs me not just hell. I have submitted to jesus I got baptised twice and I was raised christian my whole life till I became a atheist at 16 or so.

If you're an atheist, then you haven't submitted to Christ.

I had nothing to influence me to become a atheist except the errancy and illogic of the bible itself

Give us an example.

I believe if their really was a god he would have to be beyond humans stupidity and cruelty.

He is. However, He's still righteous and He's still just.

Now, can you tell me what you believe it means to be born again?

 

[deadmanxzxz]

Okay to prove what I said I will make one last post. I gave jesus 16 years to come into my life I have submitted to christ and did everything I could .
1: bible says that. where? lots of verses, and for some storys to be true the earth would have to be less than 10000.
2: Genesis, illogical, stupid and isnt compatable with modern science. The flood and noahs ark, every thing about it. Young earth . falt earth. Sun revovles around the earth. natural disasters are gods wrath . The bible doesnt teach science that would be like looking for cooking recipes in a phone book.
3:Example I didnt know any atheist I just read the bible. Wow the whole book. From beginning to end. First bible contradictions. Incompatable with science. Repulsive and illogical. Sexist. alows slavery, stoning and torture. Imperfect and obviously written by men. The storys in it are ridiculus. They actually believed in witchs, magic, monsters dragons and sacrificing. The main theme, god sacrificed himself to himself to protect his creations from his own wrath, and any one who doesnt believe in this silly old story deserves to get tortured for eternity.
4: wrong the god of the bible is one arguably the worst character in fiction.

 

[seebs]

Hey. I want to* be saved and go to heaven but I dont believe the bible is true. I cant help it, all the evidence is against that its true. Jesus said you have to believe in your heart or you will not get into heaven. Now I can pretend I believe but really in my heart I dont. I want to be saved and go to heaven But I have no choice because I cant force my self to belief something if its not convincing enough. So can some one please convince me that its the the only true word of god? If not im doomed to go to hell and burn with all the other billions of people and animals too I guess.

Try believing the things Jesus said, not the things other people insist on. Jesus never said you had to hold a particular opinion on cosmology, and you should be aware that the modern fad of trying to turn everything literal is not the historical practice of Christianity; Christians have believed that many passages are allegorical or metaphorical since the dawn of the faith.

Read the Gospels, and understand that Jesus is not asking you to believe all the things other people say Jesus wanted. People like to make rules. It misses the point.

Get out there and love some neighbors.

 

[seebs]

Okay to prove what I said I will make one last post. I gave jesus 16 years to come into my life I did every thing I could.

You might want to take a break from the question for a few years, then; sometimes it's hard to see something until you've gotten some space and some time to think.

 

[ebia]

Its what the bible says. It also says humans have been around since the beginning of the earth when obviously thats not true. [/quoted]
Genesis isn't history - at least not in the modern sense. It's not meant to be read in that way. Genesis 1 & 2 are a mix of literary styles (liturgy, myth, ...), but they certainly are neither modern style history nor science. To treat them as such is to abuse what they are.
Outside of the US most of the world's Christians recognise this.

Im sure This amazingly huge universe doesnt exist for one feeble species on one feeble planet.

Unless we find another sentient lifeform we won't know, will we.

Dont make excuses.

I'm not making excuses. Original sin is a theory invented by St Augustine to try and understand what the bible says - it's not in the bible at all.

The bible is gods holy and only word.

Wrong.

You really think god is so weak hes incapable of writing a single inerrant book?

God can do what he wants. However, there is no evidence that he has choosen to write any book, let alone an inerrant one. The bible itself does not claim to be inerrant. What he has done is to inspire a series of human authors to write a particular, profound, and exception collection of works through which he speaks to us.

Its what the bible says.

Only if you take comments out of context. "The earth is flat" is a good-enough approximation for all normal purposes that we all use all the time. Similarly stuff like the 4 corners of the earth is not literal language. To treat it as such is just plain silly.

Also says lots of other stupid stuff.

It does if you treat it as something it is not. It's literature that God uses. Just like the people God uses, it's limited by it's time, place and context.

It means: 1) If God exists then he is omniscient, omnipotent and perfectly good.

Not necessarly true. Omnisience and omnipotence are (flawed) greek concepts, not biblical ones. They have some value in talking about God, but shouldn't be thought of as being either biblical or 100% accurate.

(2) If God were omniscient, omnipotent and perfectly good then the world would not contain evil.

Again, that doesn't really follow, and is built upon the (flawed) concept of omnipotence.

(3) The world contains evil.
Therefore:
(4) It is not the case that God exists.

See above.

It means theirs no such thing as perfect rules.

I'm still not sure what you mean. Rules are (at best) tools for a purpose. So perfect to what end? And how does it relate to the thread?

Not what the bible says.

Not quite. The bible implies that there is a "punishment" available, but the language used to describe its nature and who will suffer it is open to interpretation. The bible also says things that necessarly imply that all will be saved. How one deals with that paradox is a matter of opinion.

Actually it is. theirs is no other way to know god. If there was a actual way to have a real relationship with god and not just an imaginary friend every one would do it.

Very few Christians come to know God first and formost through the bible. Most come to know God first and formost through other people. So, I am afraid your point is demonstrably untrue.

Its what the bible says. Unless your some one who believes gods word the old testament is false.

Some of it is very much a product of it's time and context. As a book of rules the OT is useless to us, but in other ways it's value is undeniable.

A few things. omnimax, we all know super powers and magic dont exist nothing could really be omnimax. Poped out of nowhere already powerfull and wise?! You have to learn to gain knowledge you have to work to gain power, it doesnt come from nothing.

You know this how? How can you be certain that what is true of created things is true of the creator? (Answer - you can't, its an assumption that cannot be evidenced either way).

Its the kind of christianity where one believes in the bible as actual word of god, and not just a fairly tale like every other religion.

False dichotomy. Your are rejecting an understanding of God and the bible that is not the only Christian view. In some instances it's a minority Christian view. You can sit there and demolish your strawman if you want, but all it does is demonstrate that you aren't really interested in hearing what Christians really believe.

Do I think the universe is random? well yes if it was designed by a perfect being it would be perfect itself, and its not. one example is a perfect being doesnt pointlessly waste energy, so why would god make the whole universe and only use one planet.

Who says energy is wasted? Why does a creator need to save energy within his creation anyway? Why would he want to? "I wouldn't do it this way" isn't much of an argument.

 

[deadmanxzxz]

What you say contradicts the bible. You dont seem to believe in the bible, only find it an inspiration. anyways that was my last post^ thanks for replys all. If any one wants to send me an email Zohmygob@gmail.com .

 

[MikeMcK]

Okay to prove what I said I will make one last post. I gave jesus 16 years to come into my life I have submitted to christ and did everything I could.

You say that you "submitted to Christ", and yet, you can't even tell us what it means to be born again.

1: bible says that. where? lots of verses

Then why can't you name one?

2: Genesis, illogical, stupid and isnt compatable with modern science. The flood and noahs ark, every thing about it.

Actually, the flood is very much compatable with science.

Did you know that there is evidence of a worldwide flood all over the world?

Why is it that the rock formations in the Arizona desert show signs of having been submerged in water?

Why why whale fossils been found on the savanahs of Africa?

Why does nearly every culture on Earth have a similar flood legend, all taking place about the same time?

Young earth

Actually, the Bible doesn't say anything about a young Earth or an old Earth.

falt earth

The Bible never says that the Earth is flat. In fact, it describes the Earth as being a sphere. (Job 26:10, Isaiah 40:21-22, Proverbs 8:27)

Sun revovles around the earth.

That's funny, every Bible I've ever read has say that we live in a helio-centric universe.

natural disasters are gods wrath.

Actually, it doesn't teach that natural disasters are "God's wrath" at all. It teaches that natural disasters are the natural consequences of living in a sin-fallen world.

The bible doesnt teach science that would be like looking for cooking recipes in a phone book.

You're right. The Bible is not a science text book. As has been said, "The Bible was not written to tell us how the Heavens go, but how to go to Heaven".

However, we do see many scientific details contained in the Bible, many of those written at times when such details were not commonly known or believed.

For instance, the common science of the day taught that the Earth is flat. The Bible teaches that it is round.

The common science of the day taught Geo-centrism. The Bible teaches Helio-centrism.

Before science knew anything about rain cycle, Genesis explained it in some detail.

Before science knew anything about cardiology, Dr. Luke gave an accurate sescription of the pericardium and pericardio fluid.

When science taught that there were only a few dozen stars in the sky (in all fairness to science, they did ammend this in the late 19th century to say a few hundred stars), the Bible taught us that they were countless.

When science believed that disease was spread by evil spirits and doctors attempted to cure it with leeches, the Bible told us that disease is spread by contact with the sick and could be stopped (or, at least, slowed) by simply washing yourself.

3:Example I didnt know any atheist I just read the bible. Wow the whole book. From beginning to end. First bible contradictions.

OK. You say that you read the Bible from beginning to end and yet, you don't know what it teaches, you can't give an example of the any of the "unscientific" and contradictory things you say are found in the Bible.

Sexist.

It is? Example?

If the Bible is "sexist", then why are so many heroes of the OT women? Why are so many of the important pillars of the NT church women? Why do we see women prophetesses? Women judges? Why do we see women owning property in the Bible, at a time when most cultures considered women to be property? Why did Jesus teach women and call women to follow Him at a time when, in the rabbinic tradition that He came from, this was not allowed?

alows slavery, stoning and torture.

One of the problems that you're having is that, had you read the Bible, as you claim, you would have noticed that there are two kinds of slavery in the Bible.

That which God commands as a punishment and indenture, in which a person enters into servitude to another for a pre-determined period of time. This is what we most often see in the Bible.

It's also important to note that while the Bible allows these things, God also gave them very strict rules for the human treatment of slaves, including an order to let them go after a period of time. Those who violated these rules were punished harshly.

Stoning, yes. God did ordain capital punishment, as a sovereign God has a right to do.

Imperfect and obviously written by men.

God's word is perfect. The Bible is not.

The storys in it are ridiculus. They actually believed in witchs, magic, monsters dragons and sacrificing.

And this is how I know that you didn't read it, as you claim to have.

The only time that the Bible talks about "monsters and dragons" is when it is speaking metaphorically.

For the record, there are still witches today.

The main theme, god sacrificed himself to himself to protect his creations from his own wrath, and any one who doesnt believe in this silly old story deserves to get tortured for eternity.

And, since this isn't what the Bible teaches, we know that you didn't read the Bible, as you claim.

So, let's recap. You say that the Bible is unscientific, and yet, you haven't given us one example.

Not only were you not able to show that the Earth is flat, but I presented you with three verses that show that the Bible clearly teaches that the Earth is round.

In addition, I've given you a couple of scientific facts things that the Bible teaches that predate science, in some cases, by thousands of years.

You say you read the Bible, and yet, you can't explain the Gospel to us.

You say you were a Christian, but you can't tell us what it means to be born again.

You say that you "submitted" to Christ, but you can't tell us what that means.

 

[gretamelina]

Archaeology and History Attest to the Reliability of the Bible
[SIZE=-1]By Richard M. Fales, Ph.D.[/SIZE]
No other ancient book is questioned or maligned like the Bible. Critics looking for the flyspeck in the masterpiece allege that there was a long span between the time the events in the New Testament occurred and when they were recorded. They claim another gap exists archaeologically between the earliest copies made and the autographs of the New Testament. In reality, the alleged spaces and socalled gaps exist only in the minds of the critics. Manuscript Evidence.
Aristotle’s Ode to Poetics was written between 384 and 322 B.C. The earliest copy of this work dates A.D. 1100, and there are only forty-nine extant manuscripts. The gap between the original writing and the earliest copy is 1,400 years. There are only seven extant manuscripts of Plato’s Tetralogies, written 427–347 B.C. The earliest copy is A.D. 900—a gap of over 1,200 years. What about the New Testament? Jesus was crucified in A.D. 30. The New Testament was written between A.D. 48 and 95. The oldest manuscripts date to the last quarter of the first century, and the second oldest A.D. 125. This gives us a narrow gap of thirty-five to forty years from the originals written by the apostles. From the early centuries, we have some 5,300 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament. Altogether, including Syriac, Latin, Coptic, and Aramaic, we have a whopping 24,633 texts of the ancient New Testament to confirm the wording of the Scriptures. So the bottom line is, there was no great period between the events of the New Testament and the New Testament writings. Nor is there a great time lapse between the original writings and the oldest copies.
With the great body of manuscript evidence, it can be proved, beyond a doubt, that the New Testament says exactly the same things today as it originally did nearly 2,000 years ago. Corroborating Writings. Critics also charge that there are no ancient writings about Jesus outside the New Testament. This is another ridiculous claim. Writings confirming His birth, ministry, death, and resurrection include Flavius Josephus (A.D. 93), the Babylonian Talmud (A.D. 70–200), Pliny the Younger’s letter to the Emperor Trajan (approx. A.D. 100), the Annals of Tacitus (A.D. 115–117), Mara Bar Serapion (sometime after A.D. 73), and Suetonius’ Life of Claudius and Life of Nero (A.D. 120).
Another point of contention arises when Bible critics have knowingly or unknowingly misled people by implying that Old and New Testament books were either excluded from or added into the canon of Scripture at the great ecumenical councils of A.D. 336, 382, 397, and 419. In fact, one result of these gatherings was to confirm the Church’s belief that the books already in the Bible were divinely inspired. Therefore, the Church, at these meetings, neither added to nor took away from the books of the Bible. At that time, the thirty-nine Old Testament books had already been accepted, and the New Testament, as it was written, simply grew up with the ancient Church. Each document, being accepted as it was penned in the first century, was then passed on to Christians of the next century. So, this foolishness about the Roman Emperor Constantine dropping books from the Bible is simply uneducated rumor.
[SIZE=-1]Fulfilled Prophecies[/SIZE]
Prophecies from the Old and New Testaments that have been fulfilled also add credibility to the Bible. The Scriptures predicted the rise and fall of great empires like Greece and Rome (Daniel 2:39, 40), and foretold the destruction of cities like Tyre and Sidon (Isaiah 23). Tyre’s demise is recorded by ancient historians, who tell how Alexander the Great lay siege to the city for seven months. King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon had failed in a 13-year attempt to capture the seacoast city and completely destroy its inhabitants. During the siege of 573 B.C., much of the population of Tyre moved to its new island home approximately half a mile from the land city. Here it remained surrounded by walls as high as 150 feet until judgment fell in 332 B.C. with the arrival of Alexander the Great. In the seven-month siege, he fulfilled the remainder of the prophecies (Zechariah 9:4; Ezekiel 26:12) concerning the city at sea by completely destroying Tyre, killing 8,000 of its inhabitants and selling 30,000 of its population into slavery. To reach the island, he scraped up the dust and rubble of the old land city of Tyre, just like the Bible predicted, and cast them into the sea, building a 200-footwide causeway out to the island. Alexander’s death and the murder of his two sons was also foretold in the Scripture. Another startling prophecy was Jesus’ detailed prediction of Jerusalem’s destruction, and the further spreading of the Jewish diaspora throughout the world, which is recorded in Luke 21. In A.D. 70, not only was Jerusalem destroyed by Titus, the future emperor of Rome, but another prediction of Jesus Christ in Matthew 24:1,2 came to pass—the complete destruction of the temple of God.
Messianic Prophecies
In the Book of Daniel, the Bible prophesied the coming of the one and only Jewish Messiah prior to the temple’s demise. The Old Testament prophets declared He would be born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2) to a virgin (Isaiah 7:14), be betrayed for thirty pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12,13), die by crucifixion (Psalm 22), and be buried in a rich man’s tomb (Isaiah 53:9). There was only one person who fits all of the messianic prophecies of the Old Testament who lived before A.D. 70: Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of Mary. Yes, the Bible is an amazing book. (See also 1 Peter 1:25 footnote.) -

 

[gretamelina]

Scientific Facts in the Bible
1. Only in recent years has science discovered that everything we see is composed of invisible atoms. Here, Scripture tells us that the "things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."
2. Medical science has only recently discovered that blood-clotting in a newborn reaches its peak on the eighth day, then drops. The Bible consistently says that a baby must be circumcised on the eighth day.
3. At a time when it was believed that the earth sat on a large animal or a giant (1500 B.C.), the Bible spoke of the earth’s free float in space: "He...hangs the earth upon nothing" (Job 26:7).
4. The prophet Isaiah also tells us that the earth is round: "It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth" (Isaiah 40:22). This is not a reference to a flat disk, as some skeptic maintain, but to a sphere. Secular man discovered this 2,400 years later. At a time when science believed that the earth was flat, is was the Scriptures that inspired Christopher Columbus to sail around the world (see Proverbs 3:6 footnote).
5. God told Job in 1500 B.C.: "Can you send lightnings, that they may go, and say to you, Here we are?" (Job 38:35). The Bible here is making what appears to be a scientifically ludicrous statement—that light can be sent, and then manifest itself in speech. But did you know that radio waves travel at the speed of light? This is why you can have instantaneous wireless communication with someone on the other side of the earth. Science didn’t discover this until 1864 when "British scientist James Clerk Maxwell suggested that electricity and light waves were two forms of the same thing" (Modern Century Illustrated Encyclopedia).
6. Job 38:19 asks, "Where is the way where light dwells?" Modern man has only recently discovered that light (electromagnetic radiation) has a "way," traveling at 186,000 miles per second.
7. Science has discovered that stars emit radio waves, which are received on earth as a high pitch. God mentioned this in Job 38:7: "When the morning stars sang together..."
8. "Most cosmologists (scientists who study the structures and evolution of the universe) agree that the Genesis account of creation, in imagining an initial void, may be uncannily close to the truth" (Time, Dec. 1976).
9. Solomon described a "cycle" of air currents two thousand years before scientists "discovered" them. "The wind goes toward the south, and turns about unto the north; it whirls about continually, and the wind returns again according to his circuits" (Ecclesiastes 1:6).
10. Science expresses the universe in five terms: time, space, matter, power, and motion. Genesis 1:1,2 revealed such truths to the Hebrews in 1450 B.C.: "In the beginning [time] God created [power] the heaven [space] and the earth [matter] . . . And the Spirit of God moved [motion] upon the face of the waters." The first thing God tells man is that He controls of all aspects of the universe.
11. The great biological truth concerning the importance of blood in our body’s mechanism has been fully comprehended only in recent years. Up until 120 years ago, sick people were "bled," and many died because of the practice. If you lose your blood, you lose your life. Yet Leviticus 17:11, written 3,000 years ago, declared that blood is the source of life: "For the life of the flesh is in the blood."
12. All things were made by Him (see John 1:3), including dinosaurs. Why then did the dinosaur disappear? The answer may be in Job 40:15–24. In this passage, God speaks about a great creature called "behemoth." Some commentators think this was a hippopotamus. However, the hippo’s tail isn’t like a large tree, but a small twig. Following are the characteristics of this huge animal: It was the largest of all the creatures God made; was plant-eating (herbivorous); had its strength in its hips and a tail like a large tree. It had very strong bones, lived among the trees, drank massive amounts of water, and was not disturbed by a raging river. He appears impervious to attack because his nose could pierce through snares, but Scripture says, "He that made him can make his sword to approach unto him." In other words, God caused this, the largest of all the creatures He had made, to become extinct.
13. Encyclopedia Britannica documents that in 1845, a young doctor in Vienna named Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis was horrified at the terrible death rate of women who gave birth in hospitals. As many as 30 percent died after giving birth. Semmelweis noted that doctors would examine the bodies of patients who died, then, without washing their hands, go straight to the next ward and examine expectant mothers. This was their normal practice, because the presence of microscopic diseases was unknown. Semmelweis insisted that doctors wash their hands before examinations, and the death rate immediately dropped to 2 percent. Look at the specific instructions God gave His people for when they encounter disease: "And when he that has an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself even days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean" (Leviticus 15:13). Until recent years, doctors washed their hands in a bowl of water, leaving invisible germs on their hands. However, the Bible says specifically to wash hands under "running water."
14. Luke 17:34–36 says the Second Coming of Jesus Christ will occur while some are asleep at night and others are working at daytime activities in the field. This is a clear indication of a revolving earth, with day and night at the same time.
15. "During the devastating Black Death of the fourteenth century, patients who were sick or dead were kept in the same rooms as the rest of the family. People often wondered why the disease was affecting so many people at one time. They attributed these epidemics to ‘bad air’ or ‘evil spirits.’ However, careful attention to the medical commands of God as revealed in Leviticus would have saved untold millions of lives. Arturo Castiglione wrote about the overwhelming importance of this biblical medical law: ‘The laws against leprosyin Leviticus 13 may be regarded as the first model of sanitary legislation’ (A History of Medicine)." Grant R. Jeffery, The Signature of God With all these truths revealed in Scripture,how could a thinking person deny that the Bible is supernatural in origin? There is no other book in any of the world’s religions (Vedas, Bhagavad-Gita, Koran, Book of Mormon, etc.) that contains scientific truth. In fact, they contain statements that are clearly unscientific. Hank Hanegraaff said, "Faith in Christ is not some blind leap into a dark chasm, but a faith based on established evidence." (11:3 continued)

 

[gretamelina]

Neither do I. Nor do most Christians. The bible doesn't say it was - its an age pieced together by an Irish bishop with too much time on his hands taking every story in the geneologies as literal and complete truth.



I'm undecided on that one.


Neither do I. Again, it's a theory inferred from the bible - not something the bible directly teaches.


Neither do I. It's a story that describes how we each - individually and collectively - choose to reject God.



Never met a Christian who did (thought I'm told they do exist).


I'm not sure I understand what this means.



Again, I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this.


Neither do I.


Neither do I. Fortunately it's not his only way of having a relationship with us.



Likewise.


.
Why?



Most of what you've rejected above isn't Christianity. It's a particular version of fundamentalist Christianity.

There are three words translated "hell" in Scripture:
Gehenna (Greek): The place of punishment (Matthew 5:22,29; 10:28; and James 3:6)
Hades (Greek): The abode of the dead (Matthew 11:23; 16:18, Luke 16:23; Acts 2:27)
Sheol (Hebrew): The grave (Psalm 9:17; 16:10)
There are those who accept that hell is a place of punishment, but believe that the punishment is to be annihilated—to cease conscious existence. They can’t conceive that the punishment of the wicked will be conscious and eternal. If they are correct, then a man like Adolph Hitler, who was responsible for the deaths of millions, is being "punished" merely with eternal sleep. His fate is simply to return to the non-existent state he was in before he was born, where he doesn’t even know that he is being punished.
However, Scripture paints a different story. The rich man who found himself in hell (Luke 16:19–31) was conscious. He was able to feel pain, to thirst, and to experience remorse. He wasn’t asleep in the grave; he was in a place of "torment." If hell is a place of knowing nothing or a reference to the grave into which we go at death, Jesus' statements about hell make no sense. He said that if your hand, foot, or eye causes you to sin, it would be better to remove it than to "go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:43–48).
The Bible refers to the fate of the unsaved with such fearful words as the following:

• "Shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2)
• "Everlasting punishment" (Mathew 25:46)
• "Weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 24:51)
• "Fire unquenchable" (Luke 3:17)
• "Indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish" (Romans 2:8,9)
• "Everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord" (2 Thessalonians 1:9)
• "Eternal fire...the blackness of darkness for ever" (Jude 7,13)

Revelation 14:10,11 tells us the final, eternal destiny of the sinner: "He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone...the smoke of their torment ascended up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day or night."

 

[ebia]

Any independent verification for all those claims?

This one is clearly inaccurate:

4. The prophet Isaiah also tells us that the earth is round: "It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth" (Isaiah 40:22). This is not a reference to a flat disk, as some skeptic maintain, but to a sphere. Secular man discovered this 2,400 years later. At a time when science believed that the earth was flat, is was the Scriptures that inspired Christopher Columbus to sail around the world

Leaving aside the fact that the quote does not say that the earth is a sphere - at best it is ambiguous about whether sphere or circle - the quote was most definitely NOT written 2,400 years before science discovered that the earth was spherical. The bit of Isaiah in question was written around 600BC. By 200BC Eratothenese had measured its circumference to remarkable degree of accuracy. It had been suggested that it was spherical way before that. With this kind of misinformation the whole article lacks any credibility. Columbus happened to live towards the end of an age in a Europe that had forgotten much of what science had already discovered.

 

[ebia]

There are three words translated "hell" in Scripture:
Gehenna (Greek): The place of punishment (Matthew 5:22,29; 10:28; and James 3:6)
Hades (Greek): The abode of the dead (Matthew 11:23; 16:18, Luke 16:23; Acts 2:27)
Sheol (Hebrew): The grave (Psalm 9:17; 16:10)
There are those who accept that hell is a place of punishment, but believe that the punishment is to be annihilated—to cease conscious existence. They can’t conceive that the punishment of the wicked will be conscious and eternal. If they are correct, then a man like Adolph Hitler, who was responsible for the deaths of millions, is being "punished" merely with eternal sleep. His fate is simply to return to the non-existent state he was in before he was born, where he doesn’t even know that he is being punished.
However, Scripture paints a different story. The rich man who found himself in hell (Luke 16:19–31) was conscious. He was able to feel pain, to thirst, and to experience remorse. He wasn’t asleep in the grave; he was in a place of "torment." If hell is a place of knowing nothing or a reference to the grave into which we go at death, Jesus' statements about hell make no sense. He said that if your hand, foot, or eye causes you to sin, it would be better to remove it than to "go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:43–48).
The Bible refers to the fate of the unsaved with such fearful words as the following:

• "Shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2)
• "Everlasting punishment" (Mathew 25:46)
• "Weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 24:51)
• "Fire unquenchable" (Luke 3:17)
• "Indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish" (Romans 2:8,9)
• "Everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord" (2 Thessalonians 1:9)
• "Eternal fire...the blackness of darkness for ever" (Jude 7,13)

Revelation 14:10,11 tells us the final, eternal destiny of the sinner: "He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone...the smoke of their torment ascended up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day or night."

That's your assessment. I don't agree. This is not the place to debate it.

 

[Calminian]

What you say contradicts the bible. You dont seem to believe in the bible, only find it an inspiration. anyways that was my last post^ thanks for replys all. If any one wants to send me an email Zohmygob@gmail.com .

This is the problem with compromised interpretations of the Bible. In order to harmonize science with scripture we turn to interpretations that violate basic hermeneutical logic. God doesn't violate logic but He often violates science. Just look at the life of Christ, our Creator incarnate. How often did He violate or bypass scientific laws?? Why anyone would try to allegorize Genesis for the sake of science is beyond me. There's all kinds of things in scripture we'll never be able to square with science—the Resurrection, for example. And of course many "christians" try to allegorize that away.

I can understand your frustration. The problem is, you don’t understand science and the necessary naturalistic assumptions behind it. Once you do, miracles like the Resurrection and six day creation won’t be a problem. I agree with you that science is in conflict with scripture. The central event of the christian faith is in direct conflict with medical science. That’s because miracles are in conflict with science. Science is limited to natural normative regularities. It cannot not verify, falsify nor even detect a miracle. Of course there’s a conflict between creation and science.

 

[SweetlySimple]

Dear deadmanxzxz:

I dont believe the universe was created 6000-8000 years ago.​

I'm just trying to understand your view so that I can address them more accurately, so I was wondering why you don't.

I dont believe the whole universe was made only for humans .​

What makes you believe that it is not?

I dont believe in original sin or that we started out in a garden and ate a magic fruit and became sinners.​

Can I ask why?

I dont believe the earth is flat lol.​

That's good, because the Bible doesn't teach it. In fact, Isaiah 40:22 speaks of a spherical Earth, not a flat square-like one.

I dont believe there is such thing as perfect or absolute morality.​

So then what Hitler did through the Holocaust and how he murdered millions of Jews and other minority groups wasn't bad or evil? He truly believed that what he was doing was good, so what makes your view of morality any more true or authoritive than his? What right do you have to force your view of morality on him? And so on...

I dont believe any one deserves infinite punishment for finite sins.​

Well I dare say that it is because you don't understand God's nature and the penalty for sin. You see, because all human beings are created in the image of God, we have immortal souls, that is, our conscious being will live on forever. When we sin against God, we are through our actions telling God that we want to decide truth for ourselves and live independent of God. That is what sin more or less is: living our lives apart of God and His will. Now, the natural consequence of living life without the life-giving source is death, right? Similarly, if we choose to reject Jesus as Lord and Saviour, we are telling Him and His offer of eternal life to go away, the natural alternative of wanting to live life without the eternal life-giving source is eternal death.



Also, the Apostle Paul tells us that "death is the wages of sin" (Romans 6:23). Now wages are something earned for the work rendered; in other words, wages are something that you earn. Now, since the Bible tells us that all have sinned and fallen short of God's [perfect] standard, we have all earned the wages or penalty of death for our sins, which is eternity in a place called hell.

I dont believe that a creator would write a errant confusing and contradictory book as his only way of having a relationship with us.​

Hey, for once I agree with you! I too don't believe that an omniscient God would have His written revelation to man filled with contradictions or errors! It isn't the Bible that allows us to have a relationship with God, it is us accepting Christ Jesus as Lord and Saviour that allows us to have a relationship with Him. The Bible merely shows the way to the mediator who reconciles us with God.



You'll find out that as you look at many of those so-called contradictions, they result from ignorance of the language that the verses were originally written in or taking passages out of context. If you have any that you would like addressed specifically for an example, please feel free to list some.

I dont believe in stoning nonbelievers, homosexuals, children who curse at their parents, women who arent virgins before they are married etc.​

What did Jesus do to the woman who had been caught in adultery (see John 8:1:11)? He actually defended her when He said:

"All right, stone her. But let those who have never sinned throw the first stones!"​

When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one, beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd with the woman. Then Jesus stood up again and said to her, "Where are your accusers? Didn't even one of them condemn you?"​

"No, Lord," she said.

And Jesus said, "Neither do I. Go and sin no more."
​

You see, this woman rightly deserved to die for her sin of adultery (death is the wages of sin), but Jesus forgave her rather than stoning her because He had every right to as He had lived a perfect life.

The Old Testament Law was, from what I know, primarily to keep God's people loyal and godly such that He could pave the way for the Messiah's coming who would be the Saviour of the world.



Now we live in the dispensation of grace where we are called to higher living by following the example of Jesus - who is God revealed in human flesh. When we look at who Jesus is and how He acted we see a direct reflection of who God is and how He works.

I dont believe the universe came from a omnimax being who just was.​

So instead you believe that for some unknown reason in one remarkable instant, pure energy (which came from where?) changed itself into matter - and that this matter, just by "being," created both space and time.

Now, what is more logical? To believe that God "just is" or that somehow something came into existence denying all the scientific knowledge and for some reason changed from energy into matter?

The following section comes from Answers In Genesis' book called The Updated And Expanded Answers Book (which is available on their website, but unfortunately I can't give the link yet so just Goggle the name of the book and type "Answers In Genesis" at the end of it to find the link) the following reasoning stands up to scrutiny:

• Everything which has a beginning has a cause.
• The universe has a beginning.
• Therefore, the universe has a cause.

It is important to stress the first point. The universe requires a cause because it had a beginning, as can be seen below. God, unlike the universe, had no beginning, so does not need a cause. In addition, Einstein's general relativity, which has much experimental support, shows that time is linked to matter and space. So time itself would have begun along with matter and space at the beginning of the universe. Since God, by definition, is the creator of the whole universe, He is the creator of time. Therefore, He is not limited by the time dimension He created, so He has no beginning in time. Therefore, He does not have, or need to have, a cause.

In contrast, there is good evidence that the universe had a beginning. This can be easily seen from the Laws of Thermodynamics, the most fundamental laws of the physical sciences:

• 1st Law: the total amount of mass-energy in the universe is constant.
• 2nd Law: the total amount of energy in the universe available for work is running down or entropy is increasing to a maximum.

If the total amount of mass-energy is limited, and the amount of usable energy is decreasing, then the universe cannot have existed forever, otherwise it would already have exhausted all usable energy and reached what is known as "heat death." For example, all radioactive atoms would have decayed, every part of the universe would be the same temperature, and no further work would be possible. So the best solution is that the universe must have been created with a lot of usable energy, and is now running down.

Theories like the oscillating or yoyo universe also have many problems, not the least including that there is too little mass to stop expansion and allow cycling in the first place, and no known mechanism would allow a bounce back after a hypothetical "big crunch."

Acknowledgements:

The Updated And Expanded Book by Answers in Genesis, edited by Dr Don Batten, p. 12.

Exploring Space: Understanding The Universe by Discovery Channel, p. 2.

I'll talk to you later I'm sure; until then, have a good day/night, whatever it is where you are.

 

[MikeMcK]

Leaving aside the fact that the quote does not say that the earth is a sphere

Actually, the word commonly translated as "circle" is chuwg, which refers to a sphere.

 

[Radagast]

Well prety much every thing. I dont believe the universe was created 6000-8000 years ago. I dont believe the whole universe was made only for humans ... I dont believe the earth is flat lol... I dont believe in stoning nonbelievers, homosexuals, children who curse at their parents, women who arent virgins before they are married etc.

Those things are not compulsory to believe, and many Christians don't believe them (and NONE of us believe the world is flat).

I dont believe a omnipotent all loving all knowing god is possible in this reality.

Well, if not, there is no heaven or salvation... so what do you mean when you say "I want to be saved"?

 

[Radagast]

... Columbus happened to live towards the end of an age in a Europe that had forgotten much of what science had already discovered.

Well, no, actually. People in Columbus's time knew the earth was round, and (unlike Columbus) they had a good idea of its size.

Europe to Asia westward was indeed too far to sail in one go, and it was blind luck that Columbus stumbled on America before he ran out of food and water.

I'm glad he did, though.

 

[Radagast]

What you basicaly told me is to not use my common sense, logic, reason, and ability to think for myself.

Christianity has no problem with honest reason. Indeed, much of logic was developed by monks in the Middle Ages.

I ... accepted jesus as my saviour twice.

You can't have -- not honestly. If you had, you would still be a Christian, wouldn't you?

 

[ebia]

Well, no, actually. People in Columbus's time knew the earth was round, and (unlike Columbus) they had a good idea of its size.

Europe to Asia westward was indeed too far to sail in one go, and it was blind luck that Columbus stumbled on America before he ran out of food and water.

I'm glad he did, though.

Ok, but that's not really the point, which was the fact that the earth had been discoved to be roughly spherical way before columbus.

Of couse it's not actually a sphere at all, but a lumpy oblate spherioid.