Hell's Population Clock

[Der Alte]

So what do you say is the 'plain sense' of the rich man?
You asked for 100 scriptures, I gave you the link. Read it or don't read it, up to you. Your policy's not my business.

The plain sense of the rich man is he was a literal man, who literally died, literally went to hades and literally communicated with Abraham. He was also representative all the wealthy who will not provide for the poor.
No you did not give me 100 scripture you gave a link and at that link was another link to play a video.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Yes, I thought it was a bit tired as I typed it. Yes, I have looked at a lot of flat-earth material, and I see:

faulty assumptions

bad logic

use of special cases

dishonest use of evidence

or so it seems to me.

I do not reject the idea out of hand, but I do say this: the debate will not be resolved until someone goes outside the system and looks back. Oh, wait, it has been done...but flat-earthers started in about camera focal lengths and fake photographs.

Will it ever end?

I'm disappointed you see it that way, because in my humble experience in more than 10 years, first with geocentrism then FE, it's the opposite.

Let's just for the moment consider Michiu Kaku's moment of honesty in admitting that modern cosmology theory is out by a factor of 10^120 in its predictions against observations, and Neil deGrasse Tyson's similar moment when he conceded that today's scientists are '95% stupid' (referring to the unknown dark stuff that allegedly populates the universe').

So add that up. The current cosmological paradigm must be completely wrong at the core.

There's never been any physical proof of motion or curvature. It's really that simple. And if God's word's not enough, well where are you placing your measure of faith bro?

 

[Shrewd Manager]

He was also representative all the wealthy who will not provide for the poor.

The rich man represents the rich and Lazarus represents the poor, you say? So it is an allegory, it's a parable then?

 

[Shrewd Manager]

No you did not give me 100 scripture you gave a link and at that link was another link to play a video.

Scroll down below the videos dear Alter.

 

[Der Alte]

The rich man represents the rich and Lazarus represents the poor, you say? So it is an allegory, it's a parable then?

Parable is from the Greek word "parabole" which means throw or lay beside. Something known is used to clarify/explain something unknown.
All of the unquestioned parables used real incidents/events, not necessarily specific events, known to Jesus' audience. At some time in history a widow found lost coins, a shepherd found a lost sheep, a wayward son squandered his inheritance, a sower sowed seed etc.
What is the real life comparison in the Lazarus/rich man account? Where is the "this is like unto that?"
Since all the unquestioned parables use real life events which actually happened at some time what is the real life event and what is it similar to in the Lazarus/rich man account?

 

[Shrewd Manager]

What is the real life comparison in the Lazarus/rich man account? Where is the "this is like unto that?"

Rich man is unto rich persons (possibly the priest class), Lazarus is unto poor persons. Seems to be what you're saying. No doubt there are further qualifications arising from the details.

 

[Der Alte]

Rich man is unto rich persons (possibly the priest class), Lazarus is unto poor persons. Seems to be what you're saying. No doubt there are further qualifications arising from the details.

I still don't see any parable format "<this> is like unto <that>" So it is still not a parable.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I still don't see any parable format "<this> is like unto <that>" So it is still not a parable.

So where's the difference in principle if you say the rich man stands in/ represents the class of rich people, and I say he represents (for example) the Pharisees only?

 

[Lazarus Short]

I'm disappointed you see it that way, because in my humble experience in more than 10 years, first with geocentrism then FE, it's the opposite.

Let's just for the moment consider Michiu Kaku's moment of honesty in admitting that modern cosmology theory is out by a factor of 10^120 in its predictions against observations, and Neil deGrasse Tyson's similar moment when he conceded that today's scientists are '95% stupid' (referring to the unknown dark stuff that allegedly populates the universe').

So add that up. The current cosmological paradigm must be completely wrong at the core.

There's never been any physical proof of motion or curvature. It's really that simple. And if God's word's not enough, well where are you placing your measure of faith bro?

One of the things leading me to God was attending an evolution/creation debate and noticing that the creationist easily kept up with the evolutionist. The flat-earth advocates do not impress me in the same way. My faith is in God, and my understanding of His creation/cosmos is secondary. Show me something solid and I will consider it.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

One of the things leading me to God was attending an evolution/creation debate and noticing that the creationist easily kept up with the evolutionist. The flat-earth advocates do not impress me in the same way. My faith is in God, and my understanding of His creation/cosmos is secondary. Show me something solid and I will consider it.

Spinning waterballs are patently absurd. The concept is to physics as damnation is to theology. It's an entirely artificial theoretical construct based on a raft of unproven assumptions and contrary to all experience. Zero observational or experimental proof of motion or curvature. We see much further than we should. Atmosphere maintains pressure against vacuum of space. Gyroscopes work in planes. Hi tech aircraft systems modelled on flat nonrotating earth. Railroads canals bridges engineering never allows for curvature. The list goes on.

 

[Der Alte]

So where's the difference in principle if you say the rich man stands in/ represents the class of rich people, and I say he represents (for example) the Pharisees only?

How many times must I say this? The word "parable" is from the Greek word "parabole" which means "para" = beside, "bole"= to throw. The usual pneumonic for this word in grad school was "throw the ball[bole]"
In a parable something unknown is compared to something known. Always something in this world which would be familiar to Jesus' audience. In none of the unquestioned parables does Jesus use something fictional to explain something about the kingdom of God.
In the Lazarus/rich man account there is no "The kingdom of heaven is like unto something." as in all of the unquestioned parables. That precludes the Lazarus/rich man account from being a parable. Maybe you can scramble around and find another figure of speech that does fit the story.

 

[Der Alte]

Spinning waterballs are patently absurd. ...

Where in the Bible does a spinning water ball occur?

 

[WebersHome]

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● Matt 5:21-22a . . You have heard that it was said to the people long ago: Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment. But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment.

I think it's safe to assume that the anger spoken of in that passage is a malicious kind of anger eating away at somebody who wants you dead. (cf. 1John 3:15)

● Matt 5:22b . . . Again, anyone who says to his brother "Raca" is answerable to the Sanhedrin.

Raca refers to name-calling, especially in regard to intelligence, e.g. idiot, moron, dummy, lame brain, space cadet, Neanderthal, air head, dimwit, bird brain, knuckle dragger, doofus, jackass, ignoramus, etc.

● Matt 5:22c . . But anyone who says "You fool" will be in danger of the fire of hell.

"You fool" in this case refers to a particular kind of mental cruelty that makes people-- especially growing children --feel bad about themselves, i.e. makes people feel like they don't count and/or don't matter, like they are something less than a real human being.

Demeaning comments in the "you fool" category erode someone's self respect to where they feel like they don't belong: they're unnecessary, unwelcome, and unworthy of being included, listened to, and/or taken seriously.

There's a certain amount of poetic justice in Matt 5:22c. People that make others' lives a living hell in this life via you-fool remarks, fully deserve their own lives to be a living hell in the next.

● Matt 12:36-37 . . I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.

POPULATION CLOCK UPDATE: 907 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 55,082,110 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since June 19, 2017.
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[FineLinen]

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POPULATION CLOCK UPDATE: 907 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 55,082,110 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since June 19, 2017.

Dear Weber: that is exciting information. Does that include the 15 K. children worldwide each and every day under the age of 5?

15,000 X 907 = 13,605,000

 

[FineLinen]

Dear Weber: According to your stats>>>>

It appears that the Master who is Saviour of all mankind is losing the battle, big time!

humongous!

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Where in the Bible does a spinning water ball occur?

Exactly! It does not. But a flat motionless enclosed earth? Ubiquitous.

 

[WebersHome]

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● Jer 13:23 . . Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil.

Back in the mid 1960s-- when I was a young single guy around 24 years old living solo in a tiny rented room in a family home's daylight basement --I had lots of time to myself to think about things since I had no friends, nor any kind of social contact whatsoever other than at work. I wasn't distracted with a girl friend, nor by pals and beer buddies, nor by an obsessive hobby. It was just me, my 1961 Volkswagen, and a 305 Honda motorcycle that I rode all over northwest Oregon.

I thought about Hell a lot back in those days; and the very real possibility of my ending up there. It occurred to me at the time that it would be a whole lots easier to comply with God's wishes if only I were like Him instead of like me. Doing bad is easy for me because I'm bad without thinking about it whereas doing good is a fight against nature. If only I could do good as naturally as God does good; I'd have it made.

Another thought crossed my mind back in those days. Let's assume that I could somehow manage to be pious enough in this lifetime to qualify for Heaven. Then what? I was pretty sure I could never manage to be pious for all eternity: possibly in this life, but certainly never in the next; no, I could never keep it up forever. Sooner or later my true colors would show themselves.

I envied people like Moses because he had Heaven in the bag while I had no clue about my future; though I was fairly sure that for me, Hell was pretty much a foregone conclusion.

I didn't know it at the time, but I was very fortunate to be thinking those kinds of thoughts because right around then I ran across a solution to my problem in the Old Testament that says:

"I will take you from among the nations and gather you from all the countries, and I will bring you to your land. And I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you will be clean; from all your impurities and from all your abominations will I cleanse you.

. . . And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit will I put within you, and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My spirit within you and bring it about that you will walk in My statutes and you will keep My ordinances and do them." (Ezek 36:24-27)

Those promises were made to the Jews so of course I, being a Gentile, couldn't expect God to let me in on them. But just think of the tremendous advantages that passage speaks of. Whereas I am normally and naturally impious, with those promises in hand I could become just the opposite, viz: I could become normally and naturally pious. Ezek 36:24-27 really perked me up and lifted my spirits because it gave me a light at the end of the tunnel whereas before then, I had none.

Eph 2:11-22 tells how that God has a way for Gentiles to share in the Jews' benefits. The light at the end of the tunnel spoken of above is available to everyone on Earth regardless of age, race, color, or gender; which the apostle Peter sums up by saying:

"Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord. His divine power has given us everything we need for life and piety through our knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and goodness. Through these He has given us His very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature." (2Pet 1:2-4)

POPULATION CLOCK UPDATE: 931 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 56,539,630 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since June 19, 2017.
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[WebersHome]

.
● Eccl 12:7 . .Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The second half of that passage is what interests me the most because Adam's body was made of the dust of the earth, but his soul wasn't made like that. According to Gen 2:7, the breath of life made Adam's soul.

So; I think it's fairly safe to assume that where Ecc 12:7 says that the spirit shall return to God, it's talking about God laying claim to a dead person's soul; and that is a very, very unnerving proposition.

"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Heb 10:31)

According to Matt 10:28, assassins can take the life of a man's body, but they are powerless to take the life of a man's soul; which means that a man's death doesn't terminate his existence; there's still God to reckon with.

● Matt 10:28 . . Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

The Greek word for "hell" in that verse isn't hades, it's geena (gheh' en-nah) i.e. the sum of all fears. So then, the rich man incarcerated in hades as per Luke 16:19-31 still has his soul and won't lose it till he's transferred to geena during the great white throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15 where people will undergo a gruesome termination akin to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten iron.

● Matt 16:26 . .What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

There are far too many people on internet forums casually discussing the sum of all fears as if they're in a Jane Austen book club discussing a chapter of Pride And Prejudice. Well; let me say to those grasshoppers: the hades described in Luke 16:19-31 is bad enough, but the geena of Isa 66:23-24, Matt 10:28, and Mark 9:43-48 is much worse because it's in there where people lose their human souls and quite possibly given a demonic soul in exchange.

I'm not claiming the part I said about a demonic soul is true; I'm only suggesting it's a distinct possibility because the lake of fire wasn't initially constructed for humans, rather it was initially constructed for the Devil and his angels. (Matt 25:41)

POPULATION CLOCK UPDATE: 943 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 57,268,390 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since June 19, 2017.
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[WebersHome]

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FAQ: Seeing as how Satan is harvesting more souls than Christ, then he'll get the last laugh won't he? Like "LOL, I got more than You!"

A: I don't expect Satan to do much gloating. He's a narcissistic alpha male; which is a personality that feels very strongly it's not good enough to win; everyone else must lose, viz: people like him will not settle for a market share, no, they will settle for nothing less than the whole market. In their thinking, anything less than 100% market share makes them feel inadequate and less than a success. Were you to ask them what number would satisfy them; they'd likely answer: More.

In Satan's mind "more than you" isn't enough to cheer him up for an LOL. Anything less than all is nothing to brag about because in his mind, there are no second place winners. Ergo, any souls taken by Christ, no matter how few in number, are painful for Satan because that massive ego of his can't, and won't, tolerate the reduction of even one soul in his inventory. In a mind like Satan's, Christ is a thief taking things for himself that rightfully don't belong to him.

According to Rev 12:12, the Devil's final hours characterize him in a very disagreeable mood.

You know; it's not easy to be a devil. The poor creature is stuck with a personality that allows him very little peace of mind, if any.

POPULATION CLOCK UPDATE: 948 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 57,572,040 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since June 19, 2017.
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[FineLinen]

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FAQ: Seeing as how Satan is harvesting more souls than Christ, then he'll get the last laugh won't he? Like "LOL, I got more than You!"

A: I don't expect Satan to do much gloating. He's a narcissistic alpha male; which is a personality that feels very strongly it's not good enough to win; everyone else must lose, viz: people like him will not settle for a market share, no, they will settle for nothing less than the whole market. In their thinking, anything less than 100% market share makes them feel inadequate and less than a success. Were you to ask them what number would satisfy them; they'd likely answer: More.

In Satan's mind "more than you" isn't enough to cheer him up for an LOL. Anything less than all is nothing to brag about because in his mind, there are no second place winners. Ergo, any souls taken by Christ, no matter how few in number, are painful for Satan because that massive ego of his can't, and won't, tolerate the reduction of even one soul in his inventory. In a mind like Satan's, Christ is a thief taking things for himself that rightfully don't belong to him.

According to Rev 12:12, the Devil's final hours characterize him in a very disagreeable mood.

You know; it's not easy to be a devil. The poor creature is stuck with a personality that allows him very little peace of mind, if any.

POPULATION CLOCK UPDATE: 948 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 57,572,040 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since June 19, 2017.
_

Is God a Failure?

Now that’s a pretty poignant question. Or is it an insinuation? An inference? Or implication? Or is it truth, as many would have you believe? Have you ever heard a sermon by that title? I doubt if you have. But I’m certain you have heard many a sermon which has been riddled with such implications.

Allow me to rephrase the question: Have you ever heard a sermon stating that if you don’t accept Jesus, you’ll burn forever in hell? Ah, I knew I’d touch a raw nerve. You have, haven’t you? If you heard that God is going to lose so much as one individual to the devil forever, then God is a failure.

If you have heard that the heathen (who have never had an opportunity to hear of Jesus) will be tormented forever for not believing in Him, then you’ve heard that God is a failure. If you’ve heard that man’s puny will can withstand the omnipotent will of God, and that man’s will can paralyze God’s will, then you have heard that God is a failure.

If you’ve heard that the Adversary outsmarted God in the garden of Eden, if you’ve heard that God did not want Adam and Eve to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, then you’ve heard that God is a failure.

If you’ve ever heard anyone affirm that God will lose 95% of His created beings that He’s placed on planet earth, and will torment them forever, then you’ve clearly heard that God is a failure.

If the Good Shepherd is not willing that any should perish, and yet gets weary and gives up before He finds the last sheep that’s lost, then you know that God is a failure.

If no one can come to Jesus except the Father draws him, and if the Father - eventually - does not draw every single person, then God is a failure.

What is the response of your heart to the poised question: Is God a failure? Ah, my heart says, “Nay, a billion nays.” My heart has fallen in love with a God who does all things perfectly, and one day all will be made plain, and in the end He will become ‘All in All’ and for that day my heart does wait and meanwhile I rejoice and endure because I see Him, the invisible One.

By faith I see a Master Plan for the ages and beyond, and I know I am part of that plan, and for this I whisper, “Thank you, Jesus.” I sing a song to my Beloved, Hallelujah!

In Love with Him

- Eleanor Garrod-