Hell's Population Clock

[Der Alte]

I wouldn't be risking much.

I hear you mate, but that little is all I have to live on so I wouldn't bet it.

Is that American? Sorry we speak English in Aus.

In the US, POTUS is a common abbreviation for President of the US.

Convincing you of the possibility of the primacy of allegorical interpretation over the literal may only work if both were to yield the same result. Very often, they do not. Why? Because the letter kills, only the spirit gives life. And that's why Jesus uses parables to hide his meaning. Better for an audience of little children than the wise and the prudent.

I am well aware of the figures of Speech used in the Bible. There is a book by that title by E.W. Bullinger which I happen to have on my device. But there is an old adage "If the plain sense makes good sense it is nonsense to seek any other sense." While Jesus did use parables He also spoke plainly.

John 16:29 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb. ​

Oftentimes people try to interpret plain text as figurative, to make it fit their assumptions, presuppositions etc.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Oftentimes people try to interpret plain text as figurative, to make it fit their assumptions, presuppositions etc.

And vice versa. Ok then, why would you assert that this little tale Jesus hits the Pharisees with, involving a 'rich man clothed in purple and fine linen', is about a particular rich man and has no application to anyone else? Or is it partial allegory?

 

[Shrewd Manager]

But there is an old adage "If the plain sense makes good sense it is nonsense to seek any other sense."

So you'd be a six-day young-earth creationist and a flat earther then? Glad we can agree on some things!

 

[Der Alte]

And vice versa. Ok then, why would you assert that this little tale Jesus hits the Pharisees with, involving a 'rich man clothed in purple and fine linen', is about a particular rich man and has no application to anyone else? Or is it partial allegory?

Purple was a very expensive color obtained from a small mollusk. Only kings and the high priest could afford it. I have posted my evidence several times. All the ECF who quoted it considered it factual. Since Jesus' parables were intended not to be understood by the people how would the Jewish leaders understand that the Lazarus/rich man account was supposedly directed at them?

So you'd be a six-day young-earth creationist and a flat earther then? Glad we can agree on some things!

And you derived all that out of my quote, "If the plain sense makes good sense it is nonsense to seek any other sense?" Perhaps you should stick to what I actually say. I don't respond to nonsense.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Purple was a very expensive color obtained from a small mollusk. Only kings and the high priest could afford it. I have posted my evidence several times. All the ECF who quoted it considered it factual. Since Jesus' parables were intended not to be understood by the people how would the Jewish leaders understand that the Lazarus/rich man account was supposedly directed at them?

So the purple does have a connotative meaning then?

And you derived all that out of my quote, "If the plain sense makes good sense it is nonsense to seek any other sense?" Perhaps you should stick to what I actually say. I don't respond to nonsense.

Nonsense? The ancient Hebrew concept of the earth was flat motionless and enclosed. Just like it truly is, once you peel away the science falsely-so called. You think the Bible teaches we live on a spinning orbiting water ball in space? Just one scripture in support, please?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The ancient Hebrew concept of the earth was flat motionless and enclosed.

Maybe. Doesn't matter though.

Just like it truly is, once you peel away the science falsely-so called.

No.

You think the Bible teaches we live on a spinning orbiting water ball in space?

No.

 

[Der Alte]

So the purple does have a connotative meaning then?
Nonsense? The ancient Hebrew concept of the earth was flat motionless and enclosed. Just like it truly is, once you peel away the science falsely-so called. You think the Bible teaches we live on a spinning orbiting water ball in space? Just one scripture in support, please?

Correct a mundo. Purple is connotative but not of the Jewish leadership only the high priest and royalty. So your attempt to refute me fails.
Whatever the ancient Jewish concept of earth was is totally irrelevant. That has nothing to do with my post in any way, shape or form.
Do you have any credible, reasonable evidence of any kind which addresses anything I posted?

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Correct a mundo. Purple is connotative but not of the Jewish leadership only the high priest and royalty.

So the rich man might be symbolic of a certain group?

Whatever the ancient Jewish concept of earth was is totally irrelevant.

But the Bible has over 100 scriptures that, on their plain and literal meaning, indicate the earth is flat, motionless and/or enclosed. And zero that support modern Babylonian cosmology. So you clearly draw the line and decide to either read these bits as figurative or ignore them utterly. Which is it?

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Maybe. Doesn't matter though.

No.


No.

Yes it does Jeff, the Bible is a flat earth book. You might not like it, but it's 'impossiball' to deny, save on an knee-jerk invalid basis. Let's pray for the invalids Jeff.

 

[Der Alte]

So the rich man might be symbolic of a certain group?
But the Bible has over 100 scriptures that, on their plain and literal meaning, indicate the earth is flat, motionless and/or enclosed. And zero that support modern Babylonian cosmology. So you clearly draw the line and decide to either read these bits as figurative or ignore them utterly. Which is it?

I seriously doubt that there are more than 100 verses which indicate that the earth is flat. Many things are written from the POV of a person's observation here on earth. Even today we say "The sun sets." Knowing that the sun does not move the earth rotates making it appear that the sun is moving.
I interpret like this, If the plain sense makes good sense it is nonsense to seek any other sense.

 

[Der Alte]

Yes it does Jeff, the Bible is a flat earth book. You might not like it, but it's 'impossiball' to deny, save on an knee-jerk invalid basis. Let's pray for the invalids Jeff.

Nonsense.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I interpret like this, If the plain sense makes good sense it is nonsense to seek any other sense.

Now you're changing the subject. I just used the flat earth to illustrate my point. Does the Rich Man stand for some group, or is he just a guy with bags of shekels who likes to wear funny clothes?

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Nonsense.

Just 1 scripture that supports the earth as a spinning waterball in space please.

 

[Der Alte]

Now you're changing the subject. I just used the flat earth to illustrate my point. Does the Rich Man stand for some group, or is he just a guy with bags of shekels who likes to wear funny clothes?

Not necessarily. Since Jesus named two specific people. Abraham was a definite historical person. IMO if Abraham was not in that certain place and did not say the words Jesus quoted, Jesus was lying.

Just 1 scripture that supports the earth as a spinning waterball in space please.

Which one? I'd like to see "100 scriptures that, on their plain and literal meaning, indicate the earth is flat, motionless and/or enclosed."

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Not necessarily. Since Jesus named two specific people. Abraham was a definite historical person. IMO if Abraham was not in that certain place and did not say the words Jesus quoted, Jesus was lying.

Please just answer my question. On your logic the rich man was just a historical person as well. In that case, we needn't worry about the story, it's not applicable beyond its particular setting.

Which one? I'd like to see "100 scriptures that, on their plain and literal meaning, indicate the earth is flat, motionless and/or enclosed."

Here's a summary:
Over 200 Bible scriptures say the earth is FLAT! #FlatEarthDoctrine
(I have a few more).

And a little article by Christian who denies the Biblical earth but at least has the honesty to admit the Bible is in fact a flat earth book.
The Flat-Earth Bible.

Come on der Alter, let God be true! The plain sense only seems like nonsense to you because of your worldly indoctrination.

 

[Der Alte]

Please just answer my question. On your logic the rich man was just a historical person as well. In that case, we needn't worry about the story, it's not applicable beyond its particular setting..
Here's a summary:
Over 200 Bible scriptures say the earth is FLAT! #FlatEarthDoctrine
(I have a few more).
And a little article by Christian who denies the Biblical earth but at least has the honesty to admit the Bible is in fact a flat earth book.
The Flat-Earth Bible.
Come on der Alter, let God be true! The plain sense only seems like nonsense to you because of your worldly indoctrination.

You evidently do not know what "plain sense" means. For example, if I say "I'm climbing the promotion ladder at work." The plain sense is a a literal object with side rails and rungs. But it should be clear I'm not talking about a literal ladder.
.....The rich man is anonymous who is not named. Lazarus is a specific person, but other than the account in Luke we know nothing about him. Abraham is not anonymous, he is a historical person. We know much about him from the Bible.
Wrong about not being concerned about Lazarus and the rich man. They are mentioned as an example no more no less than the unquestioned parables. Do you know what sin the rich man committed? Deuteronomy 15:7-8
I don't do links unless I want more information. And I don't download anything from an unknown link. The proper way is to quote something from the site and link for more information.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

.The rich man is anonymous who is not named.

So what do you say is the 'plain sense' of the rich man?

I don't do links unless I want more information. And I don't download anything from an unknown link. The proper way is to quote something from the site and link for more information.

You asked for 100 scriptures, I gave you the link. Read it or don't read it, up to you. Your policy's not my business.

 

[Lazarus Short]

So the purple does have a connotative meaning then?



Nonsense? The ancient Hebrew concept of the earth was flat motionless and enclosed. Just like it truly is, once you peel away the science falsely-so called. You think the Bible teaches we live on a spinning orbiting water ball in space? Just one scripture in support, please?

Given enough time, EVERY thread on the www seems to become a flat-earth thread. You have nothing to fear...but sphere itself.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

You have nothing to fear...but sphere itself.

Lol, that one's getting a bit tired after 5 years.

But have you looked into it? Geocentrism was one of the main fields of enquiry by which God brought me to Him back in 2013.

So Christians say evolution and big bang are rubbish, but somehow other unproven theories like earth's motion and curvature are sacrosanct.

The devil deceiveth the whole world, and not just as to spiritual things like damnation. Bible says earth is flat motionless and enclosed, science according to the scientific method agrees. God's creation is truly a beautiful thing.

So have you looked into it?

 

[Lazarus Short]

Lol, that one's getting a bit tired after 5 years.

But have you looked into it? Geocentrism was one of the main fields of enquiry by which God brought me to Him back in 2013.

So Christians say evolution and big bang are rubbish, but somehow other unproven theories like earth's motion and curvature are sacrosanct.

The devil deceiveth the whole world, and not just as to spiritual things like damnation. Bible says earth is flat motionless and enclosed, science according to the scientific method agrees. God's creation is truly a beautiful thing.

So have you looked into it?

Yes, I thought it was a bit tired as I typed it. Yes, I have looked at a lot of flat-earth material, and I see:

faulty assumptions

bad logic

use of special cases

dishonest use of evidence

or so it seems to me.

I do not reject the idea out of hand, but I do say this: the debate will not be resolved until someone goes outside the system and looks back. Oh, wait, it has been done...but flat-earthers started in about camera focal lengths and fake photographs.

Will it ever end?