Hell.....

[Alithis]

I agree. Like an ever present Now.

yup.. maybe so maybe so .. who knows but the lord

 

[PapaZoom]

is to me .. . its very clear . children get it no problem at all . its only those who think they need to be all theological about it that get all knitted up over it

Children get it from adults. They'll never get it from just reading the Bible. and most adults I know and have talked to about Hell make errors in their interpretations. The Bible doesn't say anything. If anyone thinks it does, set it on a stand and start at it until it makes a sound. It won't. You have to read it for yourself. And when you do, YOU are interpreting your reading through your experiences and previous teachings.

There is no way I can reconcile the Loving Father in the Prodigal story with a God that will create a firey torture pit and make it so that you will have flesh that will no burn up and that the fire won't kill you. That is a sadistic god and not a God of love, mercy, and grace.

 

[sculleywr]

i would say lets not make the error of jobs friends and assume whether god is just or not in what he does or does not do ..
but i DO see where your coming from in the latter point ..but it really does not change the truth , not mater what our perception of the reality may be ,.... that it is a place not designed for man and a place God does not desire any one to go . but they go there any way .it is eternal though -and this is ONLY imo.. - i dont think those there will know it as eternity but every moment as a present moment .

However they experience it, I think it is more important for us to "work out our salvation in fear and trembling", rather than worry about the future or people for whom we cannot be of any assistance to.

 

[sculleywr]

Children get it from adults. They'll never get it from just reading the Bible. and most adults I know and have talked to about Hell make errors in their interpretations. The Bible doesn't say anything. If anyone thinks it does, set it on a stand and start at it until it makes a sound. It won't. You have to read it for yourself. And when you do, YOU are interpreting your reading through your experiences and previous teachings.

There is no way I can reconcile the Loving Father in the Prodigal story with a God that will create a firey torture pit and make it so that you will have flesh that will no burn up and that the fire won't kill you. That is a sadistic god and not a God of love, mercy, and grace.

This is why I reject the idea that God intentionally causes the pain of the pit. Rather, it is the result of us not being prepared for being directly exposed to One Who is described as "an all consuming fire". Much as the difference between warming a room and burning a house down is down to how the space in which the fire is lit is prepared.

 

[PapaZoom]

This is why I reject the idea that God intentionally causes the pain of the pit. Rather, it is the result of us not being prepared for being directly exposed to One Who is described as "an all consuming fire". Much as the difference between warming a room and burning a house down is down to how the space in which the fire is lit is prepared.

It would be a frightening thing to have God reveal himself fully to those who rejected Him. I think even as a Christian, God could only reveal His Glory to me if at the same time He protected me from harm. God would be too mighty to behold for anyone.

 

[sculleywr]

It would be a frightening thing to have God reveal himself fully to those who rejected Him. I think even as a Christian, God could only reveal His Glory to me if at the same time He protected me from harm. God would be too mighty to behold for anyone.

That is why we are called to prepare and to become like Christ. It is why when we convert, God doesn't just up and bring us to Heaven, but calls on us to obey His commands. These commands are not intended to be used to condemn us, but to free us from our bondage to sin. Christ's mission here on earth was not a mission of forgiveness, but of rescue. He came to give us the tools to defeat sin and death, and then gave us the ability to use them in the Crucifixion and Resurrection. By using these tools, by fasting, praying, almsgiving, receiving of the Sacraments, Confession one to another, and all of the philanthropic works commanded in Scripture, we are preparing ourselves for the eventual full exposure to the uncreated Light. This is why, at the judgment, Christ does not point to a prayer you prayed, or a promise you made. He points to the carrying out of that promise.

When my marigolds were just sprouts, they needed protection from the Florida sun, so that it did not steal all of the water out of its fragile leaves. But as they grew, they needed me to water them less and less, as their ability to store water in their growing root systems increased, and they would not only sustain entire days worth of direct exposure to the Florida sun, but they would thrive in it, growing many blooms and producing many many more seeds. Likewise, we are sprouts that need much care on earth, that we might be able to thrive in the direct presence of the Giver of Life. We will not need protection then, because on earth we have become strong and ready. This earth is where we gain the only protection we need: Theosis, or becoming so much like God, through the power of Christ, that our relationship to Him is unmistakeable.

Is the prospect of being directly exposed to God a fearsome one? Most certainly. Even being prepared as she was, such that the angel described her as "blessed among women", the Theotokos, Mary, was still overwhelmed just by the presence of one who was in the presence of God. And yet, because of the union between God and man that was established within her womb, she was able to become a throne of the Most High. And even so, there is much more in store for us in eternity. Certainly, one should never approach the God of all eternity in a flippant manner. Hence when we receive the Sacrament of Communion, it is always said "With the fear of God, in faith and love, draw near". That is just a small morsel of God that we touch, but it is like charcoal being applied to our lips (referring to Isaiah's vision). How much more shall we prepare to meet God face to face in eternity? How much more should we fear that? Not an unhealthy fear, but more akin to the fear one experiences when about to go on stage, which we can utilize to prepare for the debut. Not a paralyzing fear, but an anticipatory fear.

 

[aiki]

I noticed you completely ignored the points I made in my last post.

Love does not torture needlessly. Love does not require the pain of eternity. There is literally NOTHING just about such an arrangement. For one, it makes the statement that somehow, we finite beings have managed to change the unchanging God, to somehow infinitely offend God.

But we finite beings have offended God! That is what the passage from Hebrews (and many others in Scripture) clearly communicates! And His righteous wrath rests upon every unrighteous and unrepentant sinner. (Jn. 3:36; Ro. 1:18) Your sin is ultimately against an infinite God. As such, it is infinitely serious -- as the punishment of Hell indicates.

Does our sin change God? Not in His fundamental character or nature, no. But God does act in response to our sin.

Is Hell a needless thing? No. It is the appropriate response of a holy God to our sinful conduct.

And if that were the whole of the story of sin, all God would have needed to do is forgive us.

That treats your sin far too lightly. And it would make God both unjust and unholy. God forgave our sin through the atoning work of Christ on the cross. His forgiveness of our sin was constrained by His holy and just nature, it did not circumvent or ignore these aspects of who He is. Doing so would have made His forgiveness an evil and unjust thing.

Notice that God has never said that hell is the result of His wrath.

Hell is the expression of God's wrath.

Revelation 14:10
10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

There seems to be a very direct link in this verse between God's wrath and the eternal torment of Hell.

It acts as if, somehow, God NEEDS a sacrifice to forgive sin.

Matthew 26:28 )
28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Hebrews 9:22
22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.

Romans 5:9
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him.

But look at the lame man lowered through the roof of the house, and various other people that Christ forgave without any need for a sacrifice which had not yet been performed. God is not limited to forgiving us through a sacrifice. That is, He doesn't if He is somehow all powerful.

Do you think that the sins of the man lowered through the roof of the house were never atoned for? That is not what Scripture indicates:

Hebrews 7:26-27
26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens;
27 who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people's, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.

One is judged by his own deeds, and not the deeds of others, making it impossible for the sins of one to be passed on to the Christ if they were purely a violation of legal codes. It is not just for God to exact punishment of His Son on our behalf, not as we count justice. Justice, in its pure form in a legal sense, is ALWAYS going to exact the penalty of the perpetrator of the crime.

But you misunderstand what God did through Christ. God in Christ voluntarily took upon Himself the penalty for our sin. It was not imposed or forced but accomplished willingly by Christ as a sacrificial act, not of justice, but of mercy and grace (though it satisfied God's justice, nonetheless). At any time Jesus could have called ten thousand angels to halt the course of events that led to his crucifixion, but of his own free will he laid down his life for you and I. (Jn. 10:18) It is the voluntary nature of Christ's sacrifice that prevents it from being an unjust act. Also, the justice that Christ satisfied was not external to God but emanating from Him. As such, God has a unique prerogative to satisfy His justice in the manner that He did. No human judge could properly do the same.

Justice, in its pure form, does not pass the crimes of one to another. It is blind and unwavering, but it is, in its own way, completely fair. However, in the western world, justice goes out the window when it comes to the sins of Adam and Eve. In fact, the thought that sin was passed by way of procreation to the young, rather than by secondary infection, is the very reason that such doctrines as the Immaculate Conception were thought up.

But the curse of sin is not humanity sharing in Gods judgment of Adam and Eve's sin but suffering the consequences of their sin. The victim of a drunk driver is not suffering punishment as he lays injured in the hospital. His being injured was not some judicial sentence being carried out, but merely the destructive consequence of the evil choice of the drunk driver.

This is why I pretty much gave up the ideas of justice, because in reality, God is not "all just". Not in the way that humans consider just.

Well, this is the problem with working from your finite and corrupted position to God's. What does the prophet Isaiah write?:

Isaiah 55:8-9
8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," says the Lord.
9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts.

He does not create it, for what is the purpose thereof? There is none.

That's not what the Bible says.

Selah.

 

[SnowyMacie]

It would be a frightening thing to have God reveal himself fully to those who rejected Him. I think even as a Christian, God could only reveal His Glory to me if at the same time He protected me from harm. God would be too mighty to behold for anyone.

That is exactly why, or the main reason, why Christ's Kingdom will be Hell for those who reject Christ. It will be utter torment to be in the presence of God while not being in communion with him and rejecting his love. It won't be God's choice, it is theirs.

 

[sculleywr]

I noticed you completely ignored the points I made in my last post.



But we finite beings have offended God! That is what the passage from Hebrews (and many others in Scripture) clearly communicates! And His righteous wrath rests upon every unrighteous and unrepentant sinner. (Jn. 3:36; Ro. 1:18) Your sin is ultimately against an infinite God. As such, it is infinitely serious -- as the punishment of Hell indicates.

Does our sin change God? Not in His fundamental character or nature, no. But God does act in response to our sin.

Is Hell a needless thing? No. It is the appropriate response of a holy God to our sinful conduct.



That treats your sin far too lightly. And it would make God both unjust and unholy. God forgave our sin through the atoning work of Christ on the cross. His forgiveness of our sin was constrained by His holy and just nature, it did not circumvent or ignore these aspects of who He is. Doing so would have made His forgiveness an evil and unjust thing.



Hell is the expression of God's wrath.

Revelation 14:10
10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

There seems to be a very direct link in this verse between God's wrath and the eternal torment of Hell.



Matthew 26:28 )
28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Hebrews 9:22
22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.

Romans 5:9
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him.



Do you think that the sins of the man lowered through the roof of the house were never atoned for? That is not what Scripture indicates:

Hebrews 7:26-27
26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens;
27 who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people's, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.



But you misunderstand what God did through Christ. God in Christ voluntarily took upon Himself the penalty for our sin. It was not imposed or forced but accomplished willingly by Christ as a sacrificial act, not of justice, but of mercy and grace (though it satisfied God's justice, nonetheless). At any time Jesus could have called ten thousand angels to halt the course of events that led to his crucifixion, but of his own free will he laid down his life for you and I. (Jn. 10:18) It is the voluntary nature of Christ's sacrifice that prevents it from being an unjust act. Also, the justice that Christ satisfied was not external to God but emanating from Him. As such, God has a unique prerogative to satisfy His justice in the manner that He did. No human judge could properly do the same.



But the curse of sin is not humanity sharing in Gods judgment of Adam and Eve's sin but suffering the consequences of their sin. The victim of a drunk driver is not suffering punishment as he lays injured in the hospital. His being injured was not some judicial sentence being carried out, but merely the destructive consequence of the evil choice of the drunk driver.



Well, this is the problem with working from your finite and corrupted position to God's. What does the prophet Isaiah write?:

Isaiah 55:8-9
8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," says the Lord.
9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts.



That's not what the Bible says.

Selah.

So, essentially, God is incapable of forgiving sin without transferring the punishment to another, and causes pain that has no purpose or effect. Good to know that "love" can torture people.

There is a reason that the penal sense wasn't the primary sense of soteriology for nearly 1300 years before the West decided to adopt the view out of the Aristotelian and Hellenic philosophies. It is because the pain caused by love is purposeful and accomplishes something. Even Scriptures will tell us this, in showing that "the wounds of a friend are better than the kiss of an enemy". The pain caused by love results in change. Tell me, please, what exactly does ANYONE gain from people being endlessly tortured for eternity?

God doesn't gain anything. Unless you want to tell me He is delighted by the pain of others, in which case, how could you expect me to worship a being who revels in pain?

The men and women in hell don't gain anything. Unless you're going to tell me it is all temporary, then there is nothing they gain from it.

Those of us who go to Paradise don't gain anything, either.

We on earth do not stand to gain anything from it, either.

So what is gained from it? Or is it purposeless pain, or is the pain simply the desire of God? In the first case, it eliminates the love of God. In the second, it does the same. If God desires the pain of others, then He desires that they perish.

Remember, forgiveness is extended to ALL mankind, not just to those who accept. The people in hell have already been forgiven by God. If He had been irreversibly offended, then not even Christ Himself could reverse that, as we know that God does not change.

But to become offended, one must necessarily change, which means one must be bound by the laws of time. So again, how can we offend God? Is not God the creator of Time? How then can He be bound by its rules? To be offended, you must have a beginning of the offense, which means you, yourself, must have a beginning. But is not God Himself the beginning of all things?

The logic of us offending God is not logical. One cannot offend without binding the offended to the laws and limits of time. It would be like sound waves somehow traveling beyond the bounds of the atmosphere. How could sound do that? It is limited by the limits of the air around it. An astronaut spacewalking outside of the ISS will never hear you shout into the sky, no matter how loud you yell. Neither can any action we take on earth have any effect on God, as, unlike the physical technology that allows us to communicate beyond the atmosphere, we do not have any such technology in our spiritual lives. We cannot change anything which is outside of the four dimensions of length, width, depth, and time. So it would be impossible for us to effect change in the Almighty, or else He would not be Almighty.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Blind post. Sorry.



Hell (that is, Gehenna) was made for the punishment of the devil and his demons. As such, it is not an always-existing place. Satan, remember, was not in rebellion toward God right from the beginning of his existence. It was only when he had rebelled that Gehenna became necessary and was created. So, although Hell will never cease to exist, it does not have an eternal existence in the past.

Gehenna is not presented in the Bible as a state-of-mind but as a real locale within time and space that eternally imprisons and separates those within it from all those without. Christ taught something of the nature of Hell in his parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man:

Luke 16:22-24
22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.
23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.'

Certain readers with a cultish agenda of the eradication of the doctrine of Hell from the Christian faith, respond to this view of the parable by asserting that, because it is a parable, it is entirely figurative and communicates nothing actual about Hell. The question then arises: Why of all the parables Jesus teaches is this one parable entirely figurative? None of his other parables are like this. They all use metaphors and analogies of actual things to communicate the spiritual truths Christ wanted to teach (brides, lost money, lost sheep, wheat and tares, building houses, planting seed, servants doing the will of their master, etc.). Why in the instance of this particular parable does Christ go entirely off his usual method? Why would Christ teach falsely about the nature of hell; for that is what he is doing if all that he describes of Hell in his parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man is fictional/figurative? To hold that this one parable is completely and unaccountably different in its fundamental character from all the others Jesus taught seems quite untenable and a conclusion compelled by an agenda rather than an honest reading of the text.

What basic facts does the parable reveal to us about Hell?

1.) It is a real place.
2.) It is the immediate destination of the unrepentant wicked after they die.
3.) It is a place of unrelieved torment and separation.

Other verses in Scripture correspond very well to Jesus' parable:

Matthew 13:40-42
40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 22:11-14
11 But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment.
12 So he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless.
13 Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
14 For many are called, but few are chosen."

Matthew 25:41
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Matthew 25:46
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

2 Peter 2:14-17
14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children.
15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet.
17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

Revelation 20:13-15
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

If the Bible is to be believed, Hell is not as you've described it - just an unpleasant psychological state - but a real place of eternal punishment of the unrepentant wicked.

Selah.

1) Hell is Gehenna, but Gehenna is not Hell. Gehenna is not the Greek word for Hell (the closest thing would be Hades or Tartarus), it's the Greek word for a valley outside of Old Jerusalem that was the city dump in Jesus' time. It's destructive, fiery, isolated, and repulsive nature xaused to often be used as a metaphor for negative divine action.

2) The Parable of the Rich-Man and The Beggar - This story isn't design to teach anything about Heaven or Hell. In fact, it actually doesn't even mention them. He mentions "The Bosom of Abraham", which was understood as where the righteous await judgement and "Hades". If anything, the only thing the parable os saying about the afterlife is the righteous and unrighteous have two different waiting places.

3) All references Jesus makes to Hell, he's talking about Gehenna.

4) Before I continue, the Greek word "eternal" does not mean "forever", but more accurately "Indefinite amount of time"

5) 2 Thessalonions - Destruction doesn't mean torment in any language

6) 2 Peter - I don't see anything that indicates everlasting, conscious torment in that passage.

7) Revelation is a highly symbolic and coded book from chapter 4 on, it is not meant to be taken literally ever.

8) I haven't seen one poster in this thread denying the existence of Hell, just the common Western understanding of it.

 

[Alithis]

Children get it from adults. They'll never get it from just reading the Bible. and most adults I know and have talked to about Hell make errors in their interpretations. The Bible doesn't say anything. If anyone thinks it does, set it on a stand and start at it until it makes a sound. It won't. You have to read it for yourself. And when you do, YOU are interpreting your reading through your experiences and previous teachings.

There is no way I can reconcile the Loving Father in the Prodigal story with a God that will create a firey torture pit and make it so that you will have flesh that will no burn up and that the fire won't kill you. That is a sadistic god and not a God of love, mercy, and grace.

i got it from having the bible read to me .. didn't need to have it explained further . never have .its a place ,its real God made it for the devil and his angels (not man)
do not charge God with ANYTHING ...

 

[OrthodoxPhoebe]

Revelation 20:14-15
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Hell is an actual lake of fire; if it was the presence of God then I think the scriptures would say this, would they not?

"For our God is a consuming fire"

~ Hebrew 12-29

From my understanding, Hell is a state of being for a person. God is Divine Love. Divine Love will feel heavenly to those
in Grace and like a Fire to those in perdition. You can refer back to the Old Testament story of the fiery furnace: Daniel 3:14-29

 

[Catherineanne]

So I have seen lately that Hell is getting redefined to not really be a place of torment but just the fact that since God is everywhere than it will be awful for non Christians and to them that will be Hell. I was surprised to learn that the idea of Hell that many Christians know has not always existed. I was taught that Hell was a real place so is it real or just a state of mind?

This is not new. It is standard Orthodox belief (inter alia), and they are not known for changing their minds.

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/artic...-And-Hell-According-To-Orthodox-Tradition.php

 

[Alithis]

This is not new. It is standard Orthodox belief (inter alia), and they are not known for changing their minds.

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/artic...-And-Hell-According-To-Orthodox-Tradition.php

and in reply to the op question.. is it real or not ?

 

[Catherineanne]

and in reply to the op question.. is it real or not ?

Read the article.

 

[OrthodoxPhoebe]

Children get it from adults. They'll never get it from just reading the Bible. and most adults I know and have talked to about Hell make errors in their interpretations. The Bible doesn't say anything. If anyone thinks it does, set it on a stand and start at it until it makes a sound. It won't. You have to read it for yourself. And when you do, YOU are interpreting your reading through your experiences and previous teachings.

There is no way I can reconcile the Loving Father in the Prodigal story with a God that will create a firey torture pit and make it so that you will have flesh that will no burn up and that the fire won't kill you. That is a sadistic god and not a God of love, mercy, and grace.

God is not sadistic. God is love, and this uncreated light gives us time on Earth to prepare being in front of The Light of Divine Love. God does everything in his power to bring us to Grace, but he gave us FREE WILL, so God will not breech this in anyway which in itself is an amazing gift. We need to say Okay.. Your will be done God. Show me the way, and forgive me. We need to take his correction, so we can stand the Fire of God's Divine Love. Those who have no love in them or despise God will feel His love as a Fire. A spiritual fire. This is the understanding of the Saints.

 

[Catherineanne]

God is not sadistic. God is love, and this uncreated light gives us time on Earth to prepare being in front of The Light of Divine Love. God does everything in his power to bring us to Grace, but he gave us FREE WILL, so God will not breech this in anyway which in itself is an amazing gift. We need to say Okay.. Your will be done God. Show me the way, and forgive me. We need to take his correction, so we can stand the Fire of God's Divine Love. Those who have no love in them or despise God will feel His love as a Fire. A spiritual fire. This is the understanding of the Saints.

That is how I see it as well. Thank you.

 

[OrthodoxPhoebe]

That is how I see it as well. Thank you.

God is Good!

 

[Catherineanne]

God is Good!

Indeed he is.

Mainstream Anglicanism does not have a literal hellfire as a place of punishment. It is not too clear on what it has instead, other than that God is love, and vague suggestions that hell is being where God is not. I am sure I am not alone in thinking that the Orthodox position on this makes the most sense. The 'fire' is twofold; the purity of God and his love, and the intense pain of our own regrets for our own wasted opportunities and failures. Both of these pains are of healing, imo. It makes no sense otherwise.

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

So I have seen lately that Hell is getting redefined to not really be a place of torment but just the fact that since God is everywhere than it will be awful for non Christians and to them that will be Hell. I was surprised to learn that the idea of Hell that many Christians know has not always existed. I was taught that Hell was a real place so is it real or just a state of mind?

From what I read on the CF many present day scholars and people on here believe that they understand better what is written in the bible than those that wrote it. They make the same claims that the serpent in the garden made....God or His word doesn't really mean that. As for me and my house we believe what is written in the bible and that God is more than capable of preserving it. The bible states there is a place of eternal torment created for the rebellious angels so who are we to say it isn't so?


2 Peter 2:41599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
4 For if God spared not the Angels that had sinned, but cast them down into hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be kept unto damnation:

Revelation 20:101599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
10 And the devil that deceived them, was cast into a lake of fire and brimstone, where that beast and that false prophet are, and shall be tormented even day and night for evermore.